Possible (illegal) Funding From Fingal County Council in Sporting Fingal?

DSB · 27-12-2009 9:02pm #1

From today's Sunday Tribune

Mark Hilliard

Sporting Fingal players celebrate in the dressing room with the trophy after winning the Ford FAI Cup final last month
FINGAL County Council is to be asked to debate its relationship with the football club Sporting Fingal following a heated exchange over funding.

Concerns have grown over the council's role in supporting the club, of which it owns a 26% share, although council officials have strongly denied that it is funding the club.

County manager David O'Connor said he "took grave exception" to suggestions he had given misleading information in relation to questions about the council's financial involvement with Sporting Fingal.

A motion has now been tabled for January's council meeting, requesting further discussion on the subject.

The majority stakeholder in Sporting Fingal is Gerry Gannon, whose Gannon Homes and K Club companies have not escaped the financial impact of the recession.

It is also sponsored by Anglo Irish Bank which, although nationalised, refused to comment on what financial relationship it has with the club when contacted by the Sunday Tribune.

During a meeting of Fingal County Council this month, councillors heard of a public perception that the local authority played a role in funding the football team's operations.

Despite efforts to contact the club, no one was available for comment.

Sporting Fingal has enjoyed considerable success since its foundation two years ago – in particular by capturing the Ford FAI Cup this season.

Fingal County Council, which helped establish the club with the assistance of private backing, said it had put no money into running it and never would, and said it was simply involved for the benefit of the community.

However, Cllr Clare Daly, who said there were many other sporting organisations in Fingal who believed they had not received the same level of attention, asked a number of questions relating to finances.

"I think people have some very genuine questions. If the council isn't giving the money and if the council has not given any staff resources, well what are we giving for our 26% of the shareholding?" she said at the last council meeting.

"Clearly when [a soccer club is] starting off and experimenting and developing a base, [it cannot be] funded by its fan base or by ticket receipts.

"When names like Gerry Gannon and Anglo Irish Bank [invest in the club] a lot of other sports organisations are being asked what's being invested in them.

"I have to say I don't really accept the answers to the questions, that we don't put in any money and we don't put in any staff. That is not what I have seen. I think we have put huge resources into this, and we should say that because we have."

The county manager replied that no money was put into the club except for €7,000 to fund transport for local clubs and poster printing. He said that any staff working at the club did so as volunteers.

A debate on theissue has been tabled for January's meeting.

Gavin "shels" · 28-12-2009 12:20am

It can't be true, the lads over the SF thread in the Dublin North forum ave been saying the council have very little interest in the "club" since they set up. :rolleyes:

Seriously though is anyone surprised, my tax is being paid to run this "club" partly.:mad:

Pineapple stu · 28-12-2009 1:50am

You dont pay tax.

Gavin "shels" · 28-12-2009 1:53am

cymro wrote: »

You dont pay tax.

I do, since the start of the month, so there!

Pineapple stu · 28-12-2009 1:58am

I was expecting you to mention appartments and cars

Clare Daly is a shels supporter as well so you can see her motives for her questions. ( or was that a shell to sea supporter? ) :rolleyes:

d22ontour · 28-12-2009 2:24am

Typing 'possible or illegal' then quoting from a newspaper libelous remarks doesn't seem like the brightest idea around here since the upgraded toc.If it aint phact i would be seriously contemplating removing the thread title and quote.The Guardian isn't what one would call a resourceful paper tbh.

We all lived in a yellow submarine is now ...
We all live in a libelous pos.

I care little for sporting fingal nor the council who 'fund' them but be weary of making libelous remarks too.

dsmythy · 28-12-2009 2:40am

The council doesn't fund the club. What else can be said....

bohsman · 28-12-2009 2:43am

Theres at least 7k that could have gone on something useful aswell as potential better use of unpaid volunteers. Wouldn't care if I didn't live in an area claimed by Fingal CC

Will the club be renamed Sporting North County Dublin if as is rumoured theyll be joining together county councils?

DSB · 28-12-2009 3:56am

d22ontour wrote: »

Typing 'possible or illegal' then quoting from a newspaper libelous remarks doesn't seem like the brightest idea around here since the upgraded toc.If it aint phact i would be seriously contemplating removing the thread title and quote.The Guardian isn't what one would call a resourceful paper tbh.

We all lived in a yellow submarine is now ...
We all live in a libelous pos.

I care little for sporting fingal nor the council who 'fund' them but be weary of making libelous remarks too.

I saw no similar mention in relation to the John Terry or Premiership manager brothel visit thread where people were going as far to guess who they thought the culprit might be. This is harmless stuff, if the council have provided funding, its illegal, if they haven't it isn't. All I've done is posted a link with sources claiming they have.

Zebra3 · 28-12-2009 9:16am

d22ontour wrote: »

The Guardian isn't what one would call a resourceful paper tbh.

What the hell has that got to do with the Tribune? :rolleyes:

RasTa · 28-12-2009 10:31am

d22ontour wrote: »

The Guardian isn't what one would call a resourceful paper tbh.

lol

The Muppet · 28-12-2009 10:58am

bohsman wrote: »

Theres at least 7k that could have gone on something useful aswell as potential better use of unpaid volunteers. Wouldn't care if I didn't live in an area claimed by Fingal CC

Will the club be renamed Sporting North County Dublin if as is rumoured theyll be joining together county councils?

7K is a very reasonable grant to help a sport club get off the ground. as a resident of fingal I wouldn't have a problem with the coucil making such a payment to SF. If the club continues to be as successful as it has to date it will generate income for the community on match days.

You do understand the concept of Volunteering, complaining about that is petty.

stovelid · 28-12-2009 11:34am

I've always wondered why outside investors, especially large property developers, would want to help fund a sports club, especially one backed by the County Council. What would be be in it for a developer?

I can't see it being that profitable in the normal fashion, as in the club growing huge and making money for them.

Perhaps they just want to give something back which, I have to admit, is very admirable.

dreamers75 · 28-12-2009 12:17pm

stovelid wrote: »

I've always wondered why outside investors, especially large property developers, would want to help fund a sports club, especially one backed by the County Council. What would be be in it for a developer?

I can't see it being that profitable in the normal fashion, as in the club growing huge and making money for them.

Perhaps they just want to give something back which, I have to admit, is very admirable.

Gannon owns Malahides ground in fairness hes a bit nuts about football.

Fairly sure all Dublin clubs have got money or something from councils, pats get free bins uhhh think we getting screwed here

duffman13 · 28-12-2009 12:47pm

bohsman wrote: »

Theres at least 7k that could have gone on something useful aswell as potential better use of unpaid volunteers. Wouldn't care if I didn't live in an area claimed by Fingal CC

Will the club be renamed Sporting North County Dublin if as is rumoured theyll be joining together county councils?

Are you actually for real? 7k to help launch and promote a new club, that investment can save the council a lot more due to a reduction in anti social behaviour. They have one of the biggest schoolboy sections and are growing extremely fast. The council will make there money back with pitch fees etc.

I have no affiliation to them or any league of Ireland football however my involvement with grassroots football means I have a lot of respect for this inititave. If there were more like it the standard off players in this country would no doubt increase significantly.

Oh and your point about volunteers, they give there time to the club to do something they enjoy. The council doesn't appoint them nor can they tell them to do something else. Use your head before reply to a thread!!!!

OhNoYouDidn't · 28-12-2009 12:58pm

Can someone please explain to me how a council part funding a sports club could be classed as 'illegal'?

Zebra3 · 28-12-2009 1:27pm

duffman13 wrote: »

They have one of the biggest schoolboy sections and are growing extremely fast.

Can you give us a link for their schoolboy section?

OhNoYouDidn't · 28-12-2009 1:40pm

Is it a coincidence that the only two clubs in Dublin that are moving forward are both working in partnership with their local authorities?

_blank_ · 28-12-2009 1:46pm

The Muppet wrote: »

If the club continues to be as successful as it has to date it will generate income for the community on match days.

Tiny crowds, in fact I'd say they are losing money on match days.

how many trophies do they have to win before you go to a game?

The Muppet · 28-12-2009 1:53pm

Des wrote: »

Tiny crowds, in fact I'd say they are losing money on match days.

how many trophies do they have to win before you go to a game?

As is the case with most LOI clubs.

The club is in it's infancy give it a chance. Strange the people most critical of it here are the same ones that whinge the most about Irish fans that support "foreign teams". Whats with that?

_blank_ · 28-12-2009 2:53pm

The Muppet wrote: »

Strange the people most critical of it here are the same ones that whinge the most about Irish fans that support "foreign teams". Whats with that?

If you look at it a bit more closely you'll probably find that the most critical of Sporting Fingal here are Shels fans, and with good reason.

They were franchised to replace us.

My question still remains though, and you sidestepped it nicely.

You said

as a resident of fingal I wouldn't have a problem with the coucil making such a payment to SF. If the club continues to be as successful as it has to date it will generate income for the community on match days.

The only way it will generate money on match days is by continuing to be successful. How many more trophies do they have to win before you, or people like you, start to go to games?

Or will you wait for the inevitable breakdown, just like Dublin City, and use them as a stick to beat the LoI with?

It's people like you they are trying to target, and it obviously isn't working. Is there anything they can do to entice you to a game, or will you continue to sit in your ivory tower and preach about something you have zero experience of? Win more trophies? Build a shiney stadium? What?

I agree that almost every LoI club has unsustainable crowds, but if you head to whatever stadium they are playing in next season and take a look, you will know what I mean.

The Muppet · 28-12-2009 3:00pm

Des wrote: »

If you look at it a bit more closely you'll probably find that the most critical of Sporting Fingal here are Shels fans, and with good reason.

They were franchised to replace us.

My question still remains though, and you sidestepped it nicely.

You said

The only way it will generate money on match days is by continuing to be successful. How many more trophies do they have to win before you, or people like you, start to go to games?

Or will you wait for the inevitable breakdown, just like Dublin City, and use them as a stick to beat the LoI with?

It's people like you they are trying to target, and it obviously isn't working. Is there anything they can do to entice you to a game, or will you continue to sit in your ivory tower and preach about something you have zero experience of? Win more trophies? Build a shiney stadium? What?

I agree that almost every LoI club has unsustainable crowds, but if you head to whatever stadium they are playing in next season and take a look, you will know what I mean.

The reason I didn't answer your question is because it is based on an assumption, you have no idea whether I have attended SF games or not, but don't let that get in the way of having a whine eh.

OhNoYouDidn't · 28-12-2009 3:18pm

To be fair Des, most of what you listed as abuse for SF was dished out at Shels fans in the 90's. Small crowds, a budget that doesn't reflect their size, builders in the background, propped up by the council etc.

Best of luck to Fingal. They have linked in with a local authority (which all clubs should look to do) and have a football mad benefactor who appears to be genuine. The rest is simply begrudgery.

I was at the cup final, and anyone who says they aren't penetrating the local community is simply wrong.

d22ontour · 28-12-2009 3:23pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

What the hell has that got to do with the Tribune? :rolleyes:

Could have sworn i seen the guardian there ...

stovelid · 28-12-2009 4:37pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fairly sure all Dublin clubs have got money or something from councils, pats get free bins uhhh think we getting screwed here

All we got was a big fat rent if that's what you're implying. Not much else that I can see..

Hard Worker · 29-12-2009 11:00pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that the only two clubs in Dublin that are moving forward are both working in partnership with their local authorities?

I presume you are talking about Rovers as one of the two. If so, just to point out to you, Shamrock Rovers do not work in partnership with SDCC. The only link between the two is that SRFC pay a substantial rent for the use of the stadium.

Hard Worker · 29-12-2009 11:08pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Are you actually for real? 7k to help launch and promote a new club, that investment can save the council a lot more due to a reduction in anti social behaviour. They have one of the biggest schoolboy sections and are growing extremely fast. The council will make there money back with pitch fees etc.

I have no affiliation to them or any league of Ireland football however my involvement with grassroots football means I have a lot of respect for this inititave. If there were more like it the standard off players in this country would no doubt increase significantly.

Oh and your point about volunteers, they give there time to the club to do something they enjoy. The council doesn't appoint them nor can they tell them to do something else. Use your head before reply to a thread!!!!

I don't know of any schoolboy section in Sporting Fingal.
Regarding the volunteers, one of the questions put to the council by Clare Daly ( who doesn't support Shels by the way ) was about the input of Council staff in the running of Sporting Fingal. It will be interesting to see the answer to that.
According to the Council response so far, 7000 euro was paid to run busses to Tallaght Stadium for the Cup Final. Why? That money would have been better spent on equipment for Mulhuddart boxing club.

stovelid · 30-12-2009 12:19am

I think the other issue about rushing to praise 'benefactors' involved (propping up in other words) with LOI clubs is that the relationship never seems to have longevity.

And when/if the plug is pulled and the club has to then fund its outstanding obligations on its own steam and ends up in difficulties, the rest of us are left with inflated wages and embarrassing ammo for the barstoolers while we all queue up to condemn the club, the league and the FAI.

flahavaj · 30-12-2009 12:38am

The petty hatred directed towards Sporting Fingal (or "Fungal" as some people like to hilariously label them) on here on a regular basis persistently amuses me.

Good luck to them. I was delighted to see them lift the FAI Cup this year. Nice to see the new boys have rattled the cages of the former big boys of the league so well.

_blank_ · 30-12-2009 3:08am

flahavaj wrote: »

The petty hatred directed towards Sporting Fingal (or "Fungal" as some people like to hilariously label them) on here on a regular basis persistently amuses me.

Persistently amusing it may be, but the fact remains that Fingal was franchised to replace Shels.

Is it any wonder that Shels fans hate them?

It's not petty hatred, much as you may assume.

It is another club wedged into the Dublin area where it was not needed. If proof of that was even needed, take a look at the last team to play out of Morton. Dublin City. What happened to them? What happens to SF when their sugar daddy (Gannon) gets bored?

Franchise football doesn't work, they are a made up club for a made up county, with made up support.

flahavaj · 30-12-2009 3:28am

Des wrote: »

Persistently amusing it may be, but the fact remains that Fingal was franchised to replace Shels.

Is it any wonder that Shels fans hate them?

In what way replace them? (Genuinely curious)

It is another club wedged into the Dublin area where it was not needed. If proof of that was even needed, take a look at the last team to play out of Morton. Dublin City. What happened to them? What happens to SF when their sugar daddy (Gannon) gets bored?

So if they were based in Kerry or Carlow there'd be no problem. And if they do go out of business wont you be only too delighted anyway? You should be looking forward to the day if you hate them that much. Do you share the same concerns for Chelsea if their sugar daddy loses interest?

Franchise football doesn't work, they are a made up club for a made up county, with made up support.

Again, they're a new club, whats wrong with that. If they have a small fanbase, thats only understandable. How can support be made up anyway it either exists or it doesn't? They're doing great for themselves. Everyone has to start somewhere. Again it seems your bitter that a bright new club has come in and stepped on the toes of the big boys. Are you a bit sore their existence kept Shels in the first division for another year?

Lollymcd · 03-01-2010 10:27pm

stovelid wrote: »

All we got was a big fat rent if that's what you're implying. Not much else that I can see..

I don't think any LOI club would mind paying "a big fat rent" for a stadium like Tallaght if we could get our CC to build it for us.

Great stadium though!

bohsman · 03-01-2010 10:38pm

flahavaj wrote: »

In what way replace them? (Genuinely curious)

So if they were based in Kerry or Carlow there'd be no problem. And if they do go out of business wont you be only too delighted anyway? You should be looking forward to the day if you hate them that much. Do you share the same concerns for Chelsea if their sugar daddy loses interest?

Shels were down and out a few years ago, didnt look like theyd make it.

Yes, if Gannon and co had done something like Mick Wallace is doing in Wexford somewhere like Kerry or invested in someone like Shels who were looking to move out that direction or any other existing club for that matter there would be no problem.

flahavaj · 03-01-2010 10:40pm

bohsman wrote: »

Shels were down and out a few years ago, didnt look like theyd make it.

Yes, if Gannon and co had done something like Mick Wallace is doing in Wexford somewhere like Kerry or invested in someone like Shels who were looking to move out that direction or any other existing club for that matter there would be no problem.

So whats the problem with them being in Dublin? Don't like success happening on your doorstep?

bohsman · 03-01-2010 10:50pm

The fact that there are clearly too many clubs in Dublin. And yes the fact that theyve set up in what should be a Bohs area is another reason not to like them. As for success? 1 FAI cup is not success. Its very difficult to see them be anything other than another Dublin City after the sponsorship dream fund stops in 2012.

flahavaj · 03-01-2010 10:54pm

bohsman wrote: »

The fact that there are clearly too many clubs in Dublin. And yes the fact that theyve set up in what should be a Bohs area is another reason not to like them. As for success? 1 FAI cup is not success. Its very difficult to see them be anything other than another Dublin City after the sponsorship dream fund stops in 2012.

1 FA Cup and promotion to the top flight is extremely significant success for a fledgling cub and means that they have already far surpassed anything Dublin City ever did. Its a great basis for long term survival and if it continues sponsorship in the longer term will be far easier to come by.

Long may it continue, I applaud Sportig Fingal and everything they're doing. Nothing like some new blood to upset the status quo and cause a bit of a stir.

bohsman · 03-01-2010 11:06pm

When Fingal relegate Rovers theyll be level in success with Dublin City.

Some major questions in the not too distant future though.
Will Fingal County Council continue to exist?
Where will they find money when Gannon and Anglo money dries up.
Why is a property developer, Anglo bank and Keelings paying way over the odds for sponsorship?

chopperbyrne · 03-01-2010 11:50pm

flahavaj wrote: »

So whats the problem with them being in Dublin? Don't like success happening on your doorstep?

It was well apparent that Shels wanted (needed) to move out of Tolka as they are only still there because a judge had pity on them.

Shels were looking at moving to somewhere like Morton or at least a smaller facility in that general area.

Instead of Fingal County Council helping out an established team who would have been very grateful for the help and would have attracted more fans, they helped set up a brand new team to compete against them.

So now in a very small area of Dublins north side there are three teams all competing for fans instead of just two.

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2010 4:05pm

Hard Worker wrote: »

I don't know of any schoolboy section in Sporting Fingal.
Regarding the volunteers, one of the questions put to the council by Clare Daly ( who doesn't support Shels by the way ) was about the input of Council staff in the running of Sporting Fingal. It will be interesting to see the answer to that.
According to the Council response so far, 7000 euro was paid to run busses to Tallaght Stadium for the Cup Final. Why? That money would have been better spent on equipment for Mulhuddart boxing club.

Has the boxing club even applied for funding? im sure they will get some if they apply.

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2010 4:20pm

Des wrote: »

Persistently amusing it may be, but the fact remains that Fingal was franchised to replace Shels.

Is it any wonder that Shels fans hate them?

It's not petty hatred, much as you may assume.

It is another club wedged into the Dublin area where it was not needed. If proof of that was even needed, take a look at the last team to play out of Morton. Dublin City. What happened to them? What happens to SF when their sugar daddy (Gannon) gets bored?

Franchise football doesn't work, they are a made up club for a made up county, with made up support.[/Q

You are struggling now Des, No other league team is in Fingal ( which was there before the city reached it ) Shelbourne playing in drumcondra outside their original area after being in harolds cross and now sharing dalymount where there is already a league team. Dublin city and sporting fingal are nowhere near the same set up , what will happen to shels when your sponsors get bored and sporting fingal took kilkenny's place in the league and had nothing to do with replacing shels now get over it and start worring about the future of your shels .
Stop being bitter towards us and move on for fecks sake, you have been posting the same crap for 2 years now so have a kit kat and chill out and com eup with something new

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2010 4:26pm

bohsman wrote: »

The fact that there are clearly too many clubs in Dublin. And yes the fact that theyve set up in what should be a Bohs area is another reason not to like them. As for success? 1 FAI cup is not success. Its very difficult to see them be anything other than another Dublin City after the sponsorship dream fund stops in 2012.

They are not in the bohs area

1 FAI cup in 2 years and promotion is successs

Whats gona happen to bohs when the money men want their dosh back ?

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2010 4:27pm

bohsman wrote: »

When Fingal relegate Rovers theyll be level in success with Dublin City.

Some major questions in the not too distant future though.
Will Fingal County Council continue to exist? YES
Where will they find money when Gannon and Anglo money dries up. YES
Why is a property developer, Anglo bank and Keelings paying way over the odds for sponsorship?

Jealous ?

Pineapple stu · 04-01-2010 4:31pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It was well apparent that Shels wanted (needed) to move out of Tolka as they are only still there because a judge had pity on them.

Shels were looking at moving to somewhere like Morton or at least a smaller facility in that general area.

Instead of Fingal County Council helping out an established team who would have been very grateful for the help and would have attracted more fans, they helped set up a brand new team to compete against them.

So now in a very small area of Dublins north side there are three teams all competing for fans instead of just two.

Why would fingal county council help out a team not in their area and which is run as a business.

The whole sport in fingal project has gone right over your heads hasnt it

stovelid · 04-01-2010 4:59pm

Lollymcd wrote: »

I don't think any LOI club would mind paying "a big fat rent" for a stadium like Tallaght if we could get our CC to build it for us.

It wasn't built for us. If it was, we wouldn't be paying a exorbitant rent for it.

At the time of writing, it has been used for several other purposes including the FAI cup final and rugby.

I can''t really make this any more simplified. I can try and put it in a flow diagram or something if that would help?

stovelid · 04-01-2010 5:02pm

bohsman wrote: »

Where will they find money when Gannon and Anglo money dries up.

In the case of the benefactor money drying up, who would technically honour outstanding wages and other costs? The county council?

Genuine question.

The Muppet · 04-01-2010 5:06pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

So now in a very small area of Dublins north side there are three teams all competing for fans instead of just two.

very small? Fingall is one of the most densly populated areas in the country. The North County has never had a club that it can identify with, It does now.

_blank_ · 04-01-2010 5:21pm

The Muppet wrote: »

very small? Fingall is one of the most densly populated areas in the country. The North County has never had a club that it can identify with, It does now.

Do you identify with it?

Lamper.sffc · 04-01-2010 5:50pm

Des wrote: »

Do you identify with it?

I do

The Muppet · 04-01-2010 5:52pm

Des wrote: »

Do you identify with it?

Ha ha you're like a dog with a bone Des.:)

I do Des.

bohsman · 04-01-2010 6:28pm

cymro wrote: »

They are not in the bohs area

1 FAI cup in 2 years and promotion is successs

Whats gona happen to bohs when the money men want their dosh back ?

What money men?

Lamper.sffc · 04-01-2010 6:36pm

Possible (illegal) Funding From Fingal County Council in Sporting Fingal?

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