Premier League Mid-Term Report

Peyton Manning

A wee bit bored here, so thought Id write out my thoughts on how each team is performing so far. Feel free to contribute your own versions too. The ratings Ive given are relative to what is expected of the club and what they have available to do them, as well as how they have impressed me this season.

Arsenal
Performing as expected really. Im sure their fans swap between either getting an erection at some of the beautiful football they display and hiding behind their couch at the shakiness of their defence. People said they would struggle without Van Persie, and while they may be true to some extent, today was further proof that the real life blood in this team is Cesc Fabregas. He makes them tick, and with 9 goals and 12 assists in his 16 appearances so far, he could well be a shoe in for player of the year. Thomas Vermaelen looks like Nemanja Vidic in more ways than one, and has been a fantastic purchase. Arshavin is proving himself to be a great little player once again, and should Diaby put in a few more performances like today (I thought he was excellent), then Arsenal really must be considered one of the favourites. Signings in January are needed - and they might fancy bringing in a striker and a bit of metal in midfield to shore things up a bit, but dont expect any big names. You get the feeling that Wenger has prioritised the Champions League as his main target this year, so non cup tied players are a must. 7/10


Aston Villa
Quite the success story. To say they've gone about their business quietly would be a lie - you dont beat Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd while still remaining under the radar. Started out as the least fanciable prospect to break the top 4 behind City and Spurs, but now look in good shape to see Champions League football next year. James Milner in the middle has been a revelation, and a rejuvenated Stewart Downing looks right at home. Agbonlahor has cement his status as the big game player in the Premier League, and Richard Dunne & Carlos Cuellar have provided some much needed reassurance at the back. O'Neill says he wont sign anybody this January unless there are departures, but with the freedom to spend Randy Lerners millions, he might bring in one or two players just to avoid a repeat of last season's post Christmas capitulation. You get the feeling that, unlike last year, they may just last the distance this time, but ultimately it will up to Villa to prove the doubters wrong - myself included. 8/10

Birmingham City
Best in class. Their shut out of Chelsea yesterday has epitomised their season - they dont score many, but dont expect them to concede any either. Joe Hart has proven that, while Shay Given has been a great signing for City, had their not been a bottomless pit of money, those funds would have been better served spent elsewhere. Surely the best young keeper in England at the moment, and with Lee Bowyer finally fulfilling some of the potential he showed all those years ago, things are looking good for Brum. Their fans may expect a the bottom to fall out of the team come the second half of the season - after all, so far it's a case of too good to be true. 6 wins and 4 draws in their last 10 games might indicate as much, but Alex McLeish has a good bit of dough to spend this January, and having assembled a defence who's record thus far is up their with the title contenders and the top 4 pretenders (joint third best defence in the league), he may just wave his wand again come the transfer window. A big month lies ahead of them in January, with tough fixtures against Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs threatening to shatter the dream. 10/10

Blackburn Rovers
Sitting 12th in the league with a league cup semi-final on the way, Blackburn fans can be content, if nothing more. The 12th place is deceiving however, as such is the wacky nature of the league this year that Blackburn are still only 3 points out of the drop zone. If the teams below them win their games in hand, 12th turns into 15th and it begins to look more worrying at first glance. There has been an obvious decline since Mark Hughes left for pastures new, and credit must go to Sam Allardyce for, if not reversing it, then at least steadying the ship somewhat. Key players have left in the past year - Santa Cruz, Brad Friedel and even David Bentley last summer, and Blackburn have never quite replaced them. And like it or not, Big Sam has implemented his very one dimensional brand of football, which a lot of teams have learned to play against in recent years. 6 of the 8 teams below them have scored more goals than Rovers, further evidence that Sams tactics need a plan B, something a lot of fans will feel he doesnt offer. However, they havent been helped by a pretty nasty list of injuries. Their best player in Steven Reid may not ever play football again (if you listen to Trappatoni that is), and Emerton, Grella, McCarthy and Dunn - four of their better players - are constantly picking up injuries too. Of course you could look at this from a glass half full perspective too, and consider that they are 9 points from a European position, and this is despite the injury crisis! Its this dilemma of perspective that has many Rovers fans split on the fate of Big Sam. It all depends on who he brings in during January, and whether they are players that will contribute to a new style of football at the club, or players who are a match made for the hoof ball tactic. Which direction they go will depend entirely upon whether rumours of James Beattie's impending arrival prove true or not! 5/10


Bolton Wanderers
Oh dear. Remember the days of Jay-Jay Okocha, Youri Djorkaeff, Ivan Campo and Nicolas Anelka? It seems a distant memory to most Bolton fans now as they lie in the relegation zone. Gary Megson is not a popular man in Bolton right now. He's maintained their relegation candidacy at a costly £40 million expenditure, with not a whole lot to show for it either. Inconsistency has been their downfall - each time they've won a game, they've followed it up with either a draw or a defeat. Still though, you cant help but be happy for Ivan Klasnic considering what he's been through. But thats about it as far as being happy goes unfortunately. What do they need in January? Well, how long have you got? 3/10

Burnley
The little team that could are showing everybody that they're not just here to make up the numbers. You get the feeling that the only thing that could top beating Man Utd 1-0 would be staying in the division, and discounting a post new year capitulation akin to Hull last year, you wouldn't bet against them achieving that either. Having said that, what was a magnificent start has recently dwindled into an uninspiring run of only 5 points from their last 8 games. Still, Owen Coyne won't be giving a half time dressing down on the pitch any time soon I reckon. David Nugent wants to make his loan move a season long arrangement, so expect to be the first order of business come January. A loan move for Arsenal's Jack Wilshere also looks likely. Its batten down the hatches from here on in. 7/10

Chelsea
Leaders of the pack so far, its been a solid if somewhat flattering start for Chelsea. Ancelotti's reign began just as fans had hoped, steamrolling everybody before them until little old Wigan showed everyone that they were human. Another defeat to Villa proved to be the kick up the backside they needed, and the steamroller picked up... err... steam once more. The highlight so far? Beating the rest of the so called big 4. The lowlight? Only one win in their last five. Having said that, they are top of the league, and are there by their own merit and there's not a fan in the world who would have rejected the chance at being top come Christmas. They would have liked a greater lead though, and indeed they probably should have that lead, as the African Cup of Nations approaches. Michael Essien has already been a huge loss through injury, and with the magnificent Didier Drogba jetting off soon alongside Kalou and Mikel, there will be more pressure on Ancelotti to bring in fresh faces in January - something he has indicated that he is strongly against. Still, if anybody has the squad to cope with such losses, its Chelsea. Plus, the Stamford Bridge faithful have plenty to be distracted by. The gossip columns will be in overdrive, most of them mentioning Kun Aguero, and then there's the eagerly awaited return of the Special One. 7/10

Everton
Fans have every right to be unimpressed by their start to the season. They expected to be a good 10 places above where they are in the league right now, but given a plague of injuries and off-the-field focus on securing a new stadium, its understandable. The likes of Fellaini and Cahill need to rediscover form quickly, but there's no shifting the blame here - they have been descimated by injuries, none more so than Mikel Arteta and Phil Jagielka. With Louis Saha banging in the goals up front and looking relatively crutch-free, transfer concerns should be a replacement for Joleon Lescott and a new striker. 4/10

Fulham
Roy Hodgson has somehow managed to follow up last years miracle with an equally impressive start this season. They've managed to strike a fine balance between league position and European progression, thanks to Bobby Zamora's determination to finally silence his critics. Another Europa League spot would be delightful for the fans given the emergence of City, Villa and Spurs. Anything achieved from now on in the current Europa campaign is a bonus. Mark Schwarzer must be the best value signing of the last decade, and perhaps another striker in January to counter Andy Johnson's injury woes. All in all, Fulham fans are on cloud nine at the moment. 8/10

Hull City
Oh dear. If 2008 was Hull City's year, 2009 has been the pain to their pleasure. The free-fall has continued, and with one of the worst defence's in the league going hand in hand with a miserly strikeforce, there's no end in sight. The return of Jimmy Bullard has been the lone shining light in an otherwise dreary start to the season, although they may have already provided us with the highlight of the season thanks to that celebration. Bullard and Stephen Hunt aside, Phil Brown doesnt seem too capable in the transfer market, never mind his non-existant budget. They've never really replaced Michael Turner either. Relegation looks definite Im afraid. 3/10

Liverpool
*Rolls up sleeves* Right. Its probably the most documented crash and burn since the hindenburg. Who is to blame? The majority of people will point at Rafa, the remaining few who all happen to be wearing Carlsberg will point at the owners. To be fair, they both have a case. Benitez seems to be blamed for pushing Alonso out of the club, but lets step back here. Alonso had a miserable 2007/2008 and Benitez had every right to be courting Gareth Barry. Okay, trying to offload the Spaniard to Juventus before securing Barry may have been a mistake, but its a high pressure job, and all jokes aside, Rafa is more qualified than any of us to do it. His replacement in Aquilani has shown glimpses of quality in his limited role so far, and while shelling out such a large sum for an injury stricken player may be questioned, if Liverpool can keep him fit, time may well judge Benitez to have gotten that one right. Elsewhere, the team seems shot of confidence. Gerrard has not been his usual self, and its not helped by himself and Torres pulling straws to see who will be injured next week. Glen Johnson has come in and looked good, although at a hefty £18 million, perhaps he has only justified his price tag rather than added to it so far. Yossi Benayoun has proven himself to be Liverpool's new Mr. Dependable, which was needed given the dissapointing decline of Gerrard and Kuyt this season. The Champions League campaign has been a disaster, with too many lapses in concentration solely to blame. It didnt start off as one, but this season has already been written off as a rebuilding excercise. There is probably no money to spend in January, so a good kick of confidence up the arse is what's needed to make sure they prise the 4th Champions League spot away from Aston Villa. For the record, I wouldn't bet against them doing it either. And yet still no mention of the beach ball.... 3/10

Manchester City
The new darlings of the back page tabloids. City have been a lucky dip this season. Sure, going forward they have been electric, but they seem to suffer from defensive leprosy - which is worrying considering it was assembled for the best part of £46 million. Carlos Tevez is endearing himself to City fans in much the same way he did to those in the red half of Manchester, and credit to him, he's added a lot more end product this season. Shay Given still remains one of the best keeper's in the world, and at under £6 million, is without doubt City's best signing. Nigel De Jong is a close second, and has been fantastic this season, providing the tough tackling metal a silky smooth forward line needs behind them. Adebayor enjoyed a blistering start, although he has slowed down somewhat following his antics against Arsenal. Craig Bellamy has also looked the sharpest he has in a long time, and seems to be thoroughly enjoying football these days. Stephen Ireland and Robinho have been disappointing given their performances last season, but you cant expect every mini-galactico to be on form. Despite the embarassing treatment of Mark Hughes, the owners an fans now have the big name manager they wanted, and if Mancini can convert all those draws into wins, City will be a top 4 contender this season, and a title contender beyond that. January's transfer gossip will be hilarious, as every player and B-list celebrity Mancini has ever even heard of will be linked with the club. One thing Id like to point out is that, superstar signings aside, it must be a little bad sad somewher e inside City fans' hearts to see one of the best youth classes in recent times be not given a chance at the club, but such is the price for an immediate swing at the title.6.5/10

Manchester United
The departure of Ronaldo and Tevez, five defeats so far, rumoured financial meltdow, the worst injury crisis we've seen for some time, - there are plenty of reasons for scaremongers to predict doom and gloom at Old Trafford, yet United are still only 2 points off the top of the league. Having said that, any other year, United may well be crowned champions already but given that nobody seemingly wants to win the league this year, we'll take 2nd place for now. Performances have been for the most part uninspiring but then it usually takes until the new year for United to really click into gear. Michael Owen was a great piece of business, and his goal in the Manchester derby may well be this season's Macheda moment. Antonio Valencia is also growing in reputation, slowly justifying his price tag. Wayne Rooney has been great, and Dimitar Berbatov continues to balance moments of brilliant with long on-field vacations. And there's not much else that can be said about Ryan Giggs that hasnt been said already. Evra and Fletcher have been their ever impressive selves, and could not be thought of higher by the fans unless they bought Nani a one way ticket back to Portugal. Will be linked with a few players in January, but its hard to know whats going on with our finances at the moment. 6.5/10

Portsmouth
Ive always liked Portsmouth, so its a shame that they get the class clown title this year. Ownership has changed hands twice, administration has been knocking on the door, and on the field performances have been dire. Im struggling to find something positive to say about the start so far, but Aruna Dindane and Frederic Piquionne look like good enough players, and Avram Grant is an upgrade on Paul Hart - thats good, right? Still, survival is a must, and it looks like a tall order, especially given yesterday's 6 pointer defeat at West Ham. A miracle is needed, but the owners insist they have cash to spend, so lets wait and see what January brings. The possibility of 4 relegation 6 pointers in their last 6 games of the season (Wigan, Hull, Wolves and Bolton) will be absolutely huge. 2/10

Stoke City
Following up last seasons impressive performances with another steady go at the top flight. Stoke are doing enough to exclude themselves from the relegation struggle again this season, but find themselves caught in the no-man's land that is mid-table where no one really gives a shit about you. But Im sure the fans will take that, albeit not as eagerly as they took that win over Spurs earlier in the season. Shawcross continues to be one of the best young English defenders in the country, but they may need a new striker with Beattie looking certain to leave come January. Also, more Tuncay please. 6/10

Sunderland
A hugely impressive start to the season has been somewhat offset by dreary results as of late. They're in 10th place, which is about right for how they've played this season. Darren Bent has reignited his career and ousted Kenwyne Jones as the clubs top striker, and Andy Reid continues to highlight Geovanni Trapatoni's foolishness in refusing to recall him to the Ireland squad. Lee Cattermole has looked a nice little signing, although Anton Ferdinand and Frazier Campbell have looked anything but. They need to rediscover that spark they had at the beginning of the season, and a capable full back in January might just do that. 6/10

Tottenham Hotspur
Harry has Spurs heading in the right direction again - kind of. They just need to cut out the silly crap that makes them lose to the likes of Stoke and Wolves. Tom Huddlestone has been great this season, if not somewhat hit and miss (perhaps a ratio of 3:1). Jermaine Defoe has obviously been fantastic, banging in goals for fun and Peter Crouch looks like a great companion for him up top, which doesnt bode well for a disappointing Robbie Keane. Luka Modric is a huge loss, and the sooner they get him back, the better. Bassong and Palacios have been absolutely terrific, and exactly what Spurs have needed. Heurlelhuererlho Gomes has also cut out the mistakes and looks to have rediscovered his form of PSV. So, having said all that and praising them to the high heavens, you can bet they'll go and lose to West Ham tomorrow. 6.5/10

West Ham
It's all gone a bit wonky down at Upton Park, although Saturday's huge win over Portsmouth could prove to be very important. Lucas Neill and James Collins have been missed, and not really replaced either. But Gianfranco Zola has assembled a crew of player's we've never heard of, and given their exotic sounding names, I fancy them to avoid relegation. In all seriousness, Scott Parker, Carlton Cole, Robert Green, Matthew Upson and Allesandro Diamanti should give West Ham what they need to avoid relegation provided they all stay in January. A few new signings might be needed, but get a decent run of results going in late Janury/early February when Portsmouth, Blackburn, Burnley, Birmingham and Hull all await and West Ham should be fine. Having said that, their start to the season has been thoroughly disappointing. 3.5/10

Wigan Athletic
Wigan are a team in transition having lost a lot of their key players, and manager, so staying in the league is their priority, although great results against Chelsea and Villa have been balanced out by equally unimpressive results since. Martinez likes to play good football, but he doesn't have the right players to do it with at Wigan. N'zogbia and Rodallega have been consistently "alright verging on good", but a few signings are needed in January. Next summer will be the key for Wigan as Martinez moulds his team into what he wants. 4.5/10

Wolverhampton Wanderers
Staying in the league is Mick McCarthy's only objective this year, as illustrated in his team selection at Old Trafford. This selective selection policy seems to be working, with 3 wins in their last 4 games before Liverpool yesterday. I have no idea what Wolves need in January, although Im sure they could so with some wide players and a striker to help Kevin Doyle seeing as Ebanks-Blake has failed to adapt to the Premier League. A potential six pointer against Portsmouth on the second last day of the season looks interesting. 4/10

Headshot

fair play Archimedes

A grand read

d22ontour

That is some quality post, decent analysis too but no score for teh wolves ?



Bah he ninja edited it in . :pac:

Peyton Manning

d22ontour wrote: »

That is some quality post, decent analysis too but no score for teh wolves ?

Feck, I missed the ninjaedit.

That post is a result of being in bed sick since christmas morning, and been annoyed at sleeping through nearly all of todays football

SlickRic

archi, that is quality.

you really are bored

flahavaj

Savage post altogether. I'd love to pick out a few points to disagree but its all just spot on really. Great effort.

segadreamcast

Very enjoyable read altogether - though disagree with the assessment of Burnley to a degree, their decline has been both remarkable and alarming in equal parts - and has come about far earlier than Hull's did last season.

They're going to be struggling even by the end of January at this rate.

Frisbee

Absolutely great read, fair play Archi

d22ontour

Archimedes wrote: »

Feck, I missed the ninjaedit.

That post is a result of being in bed sick since christmas morning, and been annoyed at sleeping through nearly all of todays football

Ah sick at xmas must suck.

My daughter got her swine flu injection and they told us she will probably catch the flu after getting it .:eek:
Which she did and xmas has been all snotty noses being rubbed on my clothes for the past 10 days.

x in the city

d22ontour wrote: »

Ah sick at xmas must suck.

My daughter got her swine flu injection and they told us she will probably catch the flu after getting it .:eek:
Which she did and xmas has been all snotty noses being rubbed on my clothes for the past 10 days.

way too much time on yer hands dude.

fire up resident evil 5 or something. lol


jo has to be the misfit signing of the decade

18million city paid for him

lolz

when he gets the ball he just falls over and you'd swear he is going to break his ankle in a few places eac time

Morzadec

I think the scores for Bolton and perhaps Hull are maybe a little harsh. They expected to be in and around where they are and they have still picked up an okay amount of points considering the resources and expectations of the clubs.

If Bolton can pick up a couple of points from their two games in hand then they will be averaging out pretty much a point a game. Come the end of the season this will tally to 38 points which is usually just enough to keep them up, and I'm sure a lot of Bolton fans wouldn't have been too disappointed with that pre-season. They've not done brilliantly, don't get me wrong but I think 3 is harsh.

Hull had an absolutely dreadful end to last season, so for me it would be difficult for them to underachieve this season. I had them penned for the drop. Again they're not doing brilliantly at all but to be honest they're fairing perhaps slightly better than I expected. If they keep up their current points-per-game ratio they will almost certainly face the drop, but as I said this is nothing we didn't really expect. And if they could up it very slightly (say turn 2 draws into 2 wins) they could have a battling chance for survival which is more than I thought they would have in August. So you're right they're having a poor season, but if we're talking about expectations etc... I think 3 is a little harsh.

As a Liverpool fan it pains me to say that 3 is about right for us.

The other mark I would take issue with is perhaps Man City. I feel they've been slightly disappointing given all the money spent and probably deserve more around the 5 mark.

All the same interesting read and I would agree with most of your points.

d22ontour

x in the city wrote: »

fire up resident evil 5 or something. lol

I actually have that game lol. Can't say i have gotten into it much though.As nice as it looks it just doesn't have the feel of resi4 on the wii.Gimmicky console and i wonder why it doesn't hold up to it ?

Peyton Manning

Morzadec wrote: »

I think the scores for Bolton and perhaps Hull are maybe a little harsh. They expected to be in and around where they are and they have still picked up an okay amount of points considering the resources and expectations of the clubs.

If Bolton can pick up a couple of points from their two games in hand then they will be averaging out pretty much a point a game. Come the end of the season this will tally to 38 points which is usually just enough to keep them up, and I'm sure a lot of Bolton fans wouldn't have been too disappointed with that pre-season. They've not done brilliantly, don't get me wrong but I think 3 is harsh.

Hull had an absolutely dreadful end to last season, so for me it would be difficult for them to underachieve this season. I had them penned for the drop. Again they're not doing brilliantly at all but to be honest they're fairing perhaps slightly better than I expected. If they keep up their current points-per-game ratio they will almost certainly face the drop, but as I said this is nothing we didn't really expect. And if they could up it very slightly (say turn 2 draws into 2 wins) they could have a battling chance for survival which is more than I thought they would have in August. So you're right they're having a poor season, but if we're talking about expectations etc... I think 3 is a little harsh.

As a Liverpool fan it pains me to say that 3 is about right for us.

The other mark I would take issue with is perhaps Man City. I feel they've been slightly disappointing given all the money spent and probably deserve more around the 5 mark.

All the same interesting read and I would agree with most of your points.

You're probably right with Hull and Bolton. I guess the perspective I took was what progress they've made since last season, and thats pretty much none. Like I said with Bolton - when Megson took over, they were in the relegation zone. He has since spent £40 million and still not got them out of the relegation zone and on terms of rebuilding a squad capable of avoiding the drop, which both Hull and Bolton should have done over the summer, they got a 3 each because they've failed to do so. I probably took into account expectations from the end of last season rather say the first say of the season when what they would have at their disposal for the season was more clear.

As for City, I was generous in giving them a 6.5 but I feel that even the most optimistic of City fans would have taken a strong challenge for a Champions League spot, and at the moment, that's what they're delivering. As for what was expected given the amount of money they spent, there was always going to be a settling in period, and I think now having gotten rid of Hughes, this is that settling in period. Mancini has the rest of the season, and two transfer windows to mould his squad for a title challenge next season. I wont be as generous next year if they fare similar. As for how much they've spent, its hard to take that into account considering the bottomless pit they have available! To their owners, paying £22 million for Lescott is really like paying £15 million and letting them keep the change!

Thanks for the feedback!

Morzadec

Archimedes wrote: »

You're probably right with Hull and Bolton. I guess the perspective I took was what progress they've made since last season, and thats pretty much none. Like I said with Bolton - when Megson took over, they were in the relegation zone. He has since spent £40 million and still not got them out of the relegation zone and on terms of rebuilding a squad capable of avoiding the drop, which both Hull and Bolton should have done over the summer, they got a 3 each because they've failed to do so. I probably took into account expectations from the end of last season rather say the first say of the season when what they would have at their disposal for the season was more clear.

As for City, I was generous in giving them a 6.5 but I feel that even the most optimistic of City fans would have taken a strong challenge for a Champions League spot, and at the moment, that's what they're delivering. As for what was expected given the amount of money they spent, there was always going to be a settling in period, and I think now having gotten rid of Hughes, this is that settling in period. Mancini has the rest of the season, and two transfer windows to mould his squad for a title challenge next season. I wont be as generous next year if they fare similar. As for how much they've spent, its hard to take that into account considering the bottomless pit they have available! To their owners, paying £22 million for Lescott is really like paying £15 million and letting them keep the change!

Thanks for the feedback!

True, good points, but re Bolton and Hull I think that if a lack of progression earns them 3 points then I think Liverpool should perhaps be on 1! If 6 is the number for neither bad nor good, (as in not hugely delighted with the season but can't really complain), then I think Bolton and Hull are more worthy of a 4.5/5 considering their expectations. And as I said Liverpool on 3 is about right, we've regressed.

If you're looking at it in terms of deviation of fan expectation to results, and fan disappointment at this halfway point, then I don't think any team can rival Liverpool at this point (certainly if we're not just talking about the PL). Not even Pompey are having as bad a season by comparative standards/expectations as us.

Peyton Manning

Morzadec wrote: »

True, good points, but re Bolton and Hull I think that if a lack of progression earns them 3 points then I think Liverpool should perhaps be on 1! If 6 is the number for neither bad nor good, (as in not hugely delighted with the season but can't really complain), then I think Bolton and Hull are more worthy of a 4.5/5 considering their expectations. And as I said Liverpool on 3 is about right, we've regressed.

If you're looking at it in terms of deviation of fan expectation to results, and fan disappointment at this halfway point, then I don't think any team can rival Liverpool at this point (certainly if we're not just talking about the PL). Not even Pompey are having as bad a season by comparative standards/expectations as us.

Aye you're probably right on Bolton and Hull. As for Liverpool, I didnt wanna be too harsh on them. I know things are awful at the moment, but I dont see it as a disaster that needs a major overhaul. The problem to me seems to be a) a huge lack of confidence, and b) injuries to key players. Once Torres, Gerrard and Aquilani are all fit at the same time, results will improve and that will fix the confidence. Then ye're away with it! So in terms of what the problem is, its about a 3, but youre right on the expectations aspect - I'd almost have to go into negative numbers on that one!

missingtime

Well done mate, felt like a real quick fire recap of whats happened so far.

Xavi6

A great post, however I do take issue with this -

One thing Id like to point out is that, superstar signings aside, it must be a little bad sad somewher e inside City fans' hearts to see one of the best youth classes in recent times be not given a chance at the club, but such is the price for an immediate swing at the title.

I feel that we've maintained the same influx of youngsters that we had before. Looking at the first team squad, there are a solid number of academy graduates getting a run. Obviously Ireland, Richards and SWP are mainstays at this stage, but Johnson was back heavily involved until and unfortunate injury and Vladimir Weiss is also firmly part of the plans.

Young Belgian defender Dedryck Boyata was on the bench against Stoke. I know we have something of an injury crisis at centre half, but faith was still shown in an untried 19 year old who I doubt many people have heard of.

Joe Hart was just a little unlucky. If he were at City this year and Given hadn't been signed then I've no doubt he would be our number 1. As it was, he was still relatively inexperienced last January and it was a smart move to bring someone like Shay in. Hart no doubt learned a lot from January to August, and is now excelling on loan.

Basically if they're good enough then they will be involved, same as before.

Peyton Manning

Xavi6 wrote: »

A great post, however I do take issue with this -



I feel that we've maintained the same influx of youngsters that we had before. Looking at the first team squad, there are a solid number of academy graduates getting a run. Obviously Ireland, Richards and SWP are mainstays at this stage, but Johnson was back heavily involved until and unfortunate injury and Vladimir Weiss is also firmly part of the plans.

Young Belgian defender Dedryck Boyata was on the bench against Stoke. I know we have something of an injury crisis at centre half, but faith was still shown in an untried 19 year old who I doubt many people have heard of.

Joe Hart was just a little unlucky. If he were at City this year and Given hadn't been signed then I've no doubt he would be our number 1. As it was, he was still relatively inexperienced last January and it was a smart move to bring someone like Shay in. Hart no doubt learned a lot from January to August, and is now excelling on loan.

Basically if they're good enough then they will be involved, same as before.

The way I see it though, before the new owners came in, Daniel Sturridge (probably the hottest prospect to come out of the City youth academy - whereas Ireland has amounted to more thus far, the overall expectations are probably higher for Sturridge) would have more than likely stayed. He probably wouldn't have demanded as much money as he did for his new contract, and would have realised the potential for far more playing time. Its going to be very hard for any youngster to get adequate playing time at City now in order to develop. Sure they can sent out on loan alá Joe Hart, but how long will they wait for playing time? Ched Evans and Kasper Schmeichel didnt want to wait any longer, and with Shay Given likely to be around for another 3 - 4 years given the shelf life of goalkeepers, will Joe Hart (the best young English keeper out there imo) fancy waiting around that long as number 2? I doubt it. Even though Johnson has been injured, its going to be hard for him to get back into the team now with Barry, Kompany and De Jong having been signed. Im not saying its hurting your club or anything - ultimately its in their best interest to have an established superstar than an emerging talent, but seeing youngsters come through the ranks is very rewarding as a fan. Now maybe the likes of Weiss and Boyata are very talented youngsters (from what I here, Weiss certainly is) but unless they peak early at say 20, 21 and show that they are better than anyone else out there who is willing to move to City (money is not an object) then I really cant see any of them staying for long. Stephen Ireland was different imo, he had already established himself as a great player when the takeover began and people were still wary over whether it was the real deal or not, but from now on, the kids wont get that chance.

Xavi6

Archimedes wrote: »

The way I see it though, before the new owners came in, Daniel Sturridge (probably the hottest prospect to come out of the City youth academy - whereas Ireland has amounted to more thus far, the overall expectations are probably higher for Sturridge) would have more than likely stayed. He probably wouldn't have demanded as much money as he did for his new contract, and would have realised the potential for far more playing time. Its going to be very hard for any youngster to get adequate playing time at City now in order to develop. Sure they can sent out on loan alá Joe Hart, but how long will they wait for playing time? Ched Evans and Kasper Schmeichel didnt want to wait any longer, and with Shay Given likely to be around for another 3 - 4 years given the shelf life of goalkeepers, will Joe Hart (the best young English keeper out there imo) fancy waiting around that long as number 2? I doubt it. Even though Johnson has been injured, its going to be hard for him to get back into the team now with Barry, Kompany and De Jong having been signed. Im not saying its hurting your club or anything - ultimately its in their best interest to have an established superstar than an emerging talent, but seeing youngsters come through the ranks is very rewarding as a fan. Now maybe the likes of Weiss and Boyata are very talented youngsters (from what I here, Weiss certainly is) but unless they peak early at say 20, 21 and show that they are better than anyone else out there who is willing to move to City (money is not an object) then I really cant see any of them staying for long. Stephen Ireland was different imo, he had already established himself as a great player when the takeover began and people were still wary over whether it was the real deal or not, but from now on, the kids wont get that chance.

Apologies for just picking one snippet of your post, but to say that they 'won't' is a bit too definite. If anything, the signs point to the opposite (I also forgot to mention that David Ball was on the bench for the first derby of the season, and Jovan Vidal has also featured).

It has always been the way that it will be difficult for youngsters to break through. Some like Schmeichel and Evans are simply not good enough, if they were they would have been chased up by other Premiership clubs.

Others like Johnson and Weiss are exceptionally talented and will therefore be included in the first team when fit and available.

When it comes to blooding youngsters I still think City are more of a part of the solution than the problem.

Peyton Manning

Xavi6 wrote: »

Apologies for just picking one snippet of your post, but to say that they 'won't' is a bit too definite. If anything, the signs point to the opposite (I also forgot to mention that David Ball was on the bench for the first derby of the season, and Jovan Vidal has also featured).

It has always been the way that it will be difficult for youngsters to break through. Some like Schmeichel and Evans are simply not good enough, if they were they would have been chased up by other Premiership clubs.

Others like Johnson and Weiss are exceptionally talented and will therefore be included in the first team when fit and available.

When it comes to blooding youngsters I still think City are more of a part of the solution than the problem.

Probably shouldn't have used the word won't there, my bad. Im not by any means criticizing Man City here. Jim Cassell was probably one of the best, if not the best academy chiefs in the country, and Steve Eyre from all Ive heard has one of the best eyes for youth talent around. Im just pointing out that pushing for the title will mean sacrificing the amount of youth players you can give run outs to in the first team. Suppose you finish 4th this season. Expectations for next season will be even higher and there will be a lot of pressure from those higher up in the hierarchy (see Mark Hughes' hasty dismissal) and a large percentage of the fans for a squad capable of challenging on all fronts. Already established stars will offer this better than young prospects could, i.e. why have Michael Johnson as back-up for Nigel De Jong when you can go out and sign Yaya Touré and it will hardly matter at all on the financial side of things.

City are lucky in that they constantly produce top quality youngsters (through their own merit it must be said), but as the clubs aspirations start to become grander, so will the expectations from the youngsters, and only the best of the best will get a chance, and anybody who is a late bloomer in most cases wont have a chance. Call it a controversial opinion, but if United were in the same position back in 2005 as City find themselves now, Cristiano Ronaldo would have been shipped out before he fulfilled his potential (which many fans were calling for particularly after the Benfica defeat in December). Because United didnt have the millions that City have now, we spent what we did have on more immediate concerns - midfield and defence - which prolonged Ronaldo's opportunity to improve, and the rest is history as they say.

This isnt a rhetorical question, Im genuinely asking you're opinion here, but do you think come the start of next season that the likes of Weiss, Ball and Vidal will still be getting game time, or even bench time in the majority of fixtures once Mancini has his way in the transfer market? Also while we're on the topic, who are the hot prospects in the academy at the moment? I remember a good friend of mine who supports City telling me to watch out for Daniel Sturridge years ago! It was a hell of a shout to be fair.

Xavi6

It really is hard to know. Last year we were hearing all about how the influx of these big guns would stifle the development of Weiss. That hasn't happened, and he is now an established international on his way to a World Cup and has scored his first goal for the City first team.

We also heard that the futures of Ireland and Micah were in doubt. Well they are still essential members of the first team squad, and will continue to be.

I also completely forgot about Nedum Onuoha, who has signed a new five year deal despite us signing two ridiculously overpriced centre halves. Ned is unfortunately injured again but is well good enough to play.

We all knew about Sturridge three or four years ago. He was a phenomenal talent, but was, and still is, too big for his boots and went chasing the money at Chelsea. We offered him a great deal for an 18/19 year old but he wanted more. We may be rich but we won't be held to ransom by a kid, so we parted company. I wasn't sorry to see the back of his attitude, but his talent is undeniable.

I don't see any reason why the cream of the crop won't continue to rise to the top with us next season.

magma69

Cheers for putting the time and effort into such a great post. Pretty much nail on the head for the most part. I think a 4 is being generous to Everton. With the quality they have in their squad I would give a 2. Considering the massive exodus of any player with a shred of quality from Pompey last summer, I think a 2 is a little harsh. 3 would be fairer I think. I had them down as most likely to be relegated (along with Burnley) at the beginning of the season. I also think West Ham have been one of the biggest underachievers up to this point. They have a lots of decent experienced players and they shouldn't find themselves only just keeping their heads above water. I would have given them a 2.

magma69

Xavi6 wrote: »

We also heard that the futures of Ireland and Micah were in doubt. Well they are still essential members of the first team squad, and will continue to be.

I would shit myself in excitement if Liverpool managed to dupe some team into buying Useless er, did I say Useless? I mean Lucas, raising enough funds for Ireland to make the short trip to Merseyside. I'd be sickened to see Ireland go if I was a City fan, I genuinely believe he can cut it at the top level.

Seillejet

A really entertaining read that and thinking of mates of mine and clubs that they support I couldnt see any of them take huge issue with any of the points you made.

I appreciate it is an overview of clubs. However being a Spurs supporter I cant see how Aaron Lennon hasnt gotten a mention as he has been sensational and made Bentley look even more of a waste of money at 18 million.

Peyton Manning

Seillejet wrote: »

I appreciate it is an overview of clubs. However being a Spurs supporter I cant see how Aaron Lennon hasnt gotten a mention as he has been sensational and made Bentley look even more of a waste of money at 18 million.

Oh yeah of course, Lennon has been sensational. I nearly voted for him in the Right Midfield Player of 2009 thread but Milner just took it for me, but yes, Lennon has been one of your best players without a doubt.

eagle eye

I didn't realise the Premier League had been reduced to 19 teams. When did Blackburn get kicked out, was it yesterday?;)

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

I didn't realise the Premier League had been reduced to 19 teams. When did Blackburn get kicked out, was it yesterday?;)

As soon as I saw your name was the latest reply, I thought to myself "F*ck! Blackburn..!"

Blackburn
Sitting 12th in the league with a league cup semi-final on the way, Blackburn fans can be content, if nothing more. The 12th place is deceiving however, as such is the wacky nature of the league this year that Blackburn are still only 3 points out of the drop zone. If the teams below them win their games in hand, 12th turns into 15th and it begins to look more worrying at first glance. There has been an obvious decline since Mark Hughes left for pastures new, and credit must go to Sam Allardyce for, if not reversing it, then at least steadying the ship somewhat. Key players have left in the past year - Santa Cruz, Brad Friedel and even David Bentley last summer, and Blackburn have never quite replaced them. And like it or not, Big Sam has implemented his very one dimensional brand of football, which a lot of teams have learned to play against in recent years. 6 of the 8 teams below them have scored more goals than Rovers, further evidence that Sams tactics need a plan B, something a lot of fans will feel he doesnt offer. However, they havent been helped by a pretty nasty list of injuries. Their best player in Steven Reid may not ever play football again (if you listen to Trappatoni that is), and Emerton, Grella, McCarthy and Dunn - four of their better players - are constantly picking up injuries too. Of course you could look at this from a glass half full perspective too, and consider that they are 9 points from a European position, and this is despite the injury crisis! Its this dilemma of perspective that has many Rovers fans split on the fate of Big Sam. It all depends on who he brings in during January, and whether they are players that will contribute to a new style of football at the club, or players who are a match made for the hoof ball tactic. Which direction they go will depend entirely upon whether rumours of James Beattie's impending arrival prove true or not! 5/10

eagle eye

A few errors in that.

David Dunn is and has been our most important player over the last year. Steven Reid has never been the best player, he has impressed on international duty a lot more than he ever has at Rovers. Its quite possible that his career might end but the guy is a hard worker and fitness freak, that might just save him.
McCarthy has never been injury prone, Big Sam was not happy with his level of fitness and he has been on the bench every game when he has not started.
We lost Steven Warnock(the POY from last season) just before the end of the transfer window. This was a huge loss as he could cover midfield which he did brilliantly last season.
The midfield injury crisis is something that was there before Allardyce arrived, he had a chance to fix that when he first came in, and again during the summer but chose not to. He did pick up Steven N'Zonzi who is going to be a big star in this league, he is only 19 and I predict he will move on to one of the top clubs in the next two years.
Blackburn's biggest problem is money, plain and simple. A huge portion of the 60 million generated from sales since the summer of 2008 has been handed over to the banks. The club is not in financial trouble but had to lower the wage bill which was running at 85% of the club's turnover at the end of the 2006/07 season.
There is currently very little money available to bring in players and its been made clear that players will have to be sold to bring in new players, this is not only to do with the transfer kitty but the club wage bill. The club chairman John Williams has done an excellent job keeping the club financially sound over the last couple of years.
Unfortunately with the current state of the midfield with injuries and players who are just not up to the standard required we have no choice but to play hoof ball. The club needs to survive this season and next while Allardyce works his magic in the transfer market. He has already made some very good signings in Chimbonda, Jacobsen, Givet and N'Zonzi.

The way I've looked at the Premier League over the last while is that there is a second gap developing.
You have the top teams, I think the big four is now a big seven with Man City, Aston Villa and Tottenham all able to compete financially with the other big teams.

There is a second tier developing with Sunderland, Fulham, Everton and Birmingham all much bigger clubs than the rest. Newcastle will be at the top of this group when they return to the Premier League.
West Ham have always struggled to be a top ten team but they will always have enough money to be in the mix. Portsmouth have a new owner, its not clear how much he is willing to invest but they are guaranteed to be financially stronger than the clubs below in the immediate future.
Blackburn are now in a group that includes Stoke, Hull, Bolton, Wigan, Burnley and Wolves. These clubs need top class management and great scouting to survive in the Premier League over the next decade.

leninbenjamin

Archimedes wrote: »

Arsenal
Performing as expected really.

Not at all. At the start of the season Arsenal were written off as also rans, or the team most likely to finish outside the top 4. People have short memories...

In_tuition

Archimedes wrote: »

Arsenal
Cesc Fabregas. He makes them tick, and with 9 goals and 12 assists in his 16 appearances so far,

11

Most importantly the closest to him is RVP on 6 then a couple players on 3.

Arsenal is Cesc Fabregas.

Peyton Manning

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Not at all. At the start of the season Arsenal were written off as also rans, or the team most likely to finish outside the top 4. People have short memories...

Anybody who wrote off a team managed by Arsene Wenger is an idiot. Don't confuse the rags and the people that follow them as normal people. Anybody with a half clued in knowledge of football always knew Arsenal would be contenders.

Peyton Manning

eagle eye wrote: »

A few errors in that.

David Dunn is and has been our most important player over the last year. Steven Reid has never been the best player, he has impressed on international duty a lot more than he ever has at Rovers. Its quite possible that his career might end but the guy is a hard worker and fitness freak, that might just save him.
McCarthy has never been injury prone, Big Sam was not happy with his level of fitness and he has been on the bench every game when he has not started.
We lost Steven Warnock(the POY from last season) just before the end of the transfer window. This was a huge loss as he could cover midfield which he did brilliantly last season.
The midfield injury crisis is something that was there before Allardyce arrived, he had a chance to fix that when he first came in, and again during the summer but chose not to. He did pick up Steven N'Zonzi who is going to be a big star in this league, he is only 19 and I predict he will move on to one of the top clubs in the next two years.
Blackburn's biggest problem is money, plain and simple. A huge portion of the 60 million generated from sales since the summer of 2008 has been handed over to the banks. The club is not in financial trouble but had to lower the wage bill which was running at 85% of the club's turnover at the end of the 2006/07 season.
There is currently very little money available to bring in players and its been made clear that players will have to be sold to bring in new players, this is not only to do with the transfer kitty but the club wage bill. The club chairman John Williams has done an excellent job keeping the club financially sound over the last couple of years.
Unfortunately with the current state of the midfield with injuries and players who are just not up to the standard required we have no choice but to play hoof ball. The club needs to survive this season and next while Allardyce works his magic in the transfer market. He has already made some very good signings in Chimbonda, Jacobsen, Givet and N'Zonzi.

The way I've looked at the Premier League over the last while is that there is a second gap developing.
You have the top teams, I think the big four is now a big seven with Man City, Aston Villa and Tottenham all able to compete financially with the other big teams.

There is a second tier developing with Sunderland, Fulham, Everton and Birmingham all much bigger clubs than the rest. Newcastle will be at the top of this group when they return to the Premier League.
West Ham have always struggled to be a top ten team but they will always have enough money to be in the mix. Portsmouth have a new owner, its not clear how much he is willing to invest but they are guaranteed to be financially stronger than the clubs below in the immediate future.
Blackburn are now in a group that includes Stoke, Hull, Bolton, Wigan, Burnley and Wolves. These clubs need top class management and great scouting to survive in the Premier League over the next decade.

Forgive me for not being aware of all that (especially the financial aspects you mention which is very interesting, if somewhat shocking!). That's information that really only the fans are privy to - I was going more by on the field performances. For whats it worth, Im a big admirer of David Dunn - he's been such a consistent performer for Blackburn this season and was unlucky with injuries last year. I would still prefer Steven Reid myself, but thats a matter of opinion and I suppose I have to acknowledge that you're in a better position to judge who the better player is. And I have no idea why I left Warnock out of the list of players who have left - obviously he was a big player and an even bigger loss for Blackburn. You say if new players are to be brought in, then some players will have to be sold to pay for them. Who seems headed for the exit door? I presume Benni McCarthy is one of them, last I heard, the South Africa manager says he has to go if he wants to get in the World Cup squad.

everdead.ie

How does everyone think the table will look at the end of the season after having over half a season to watch. I think

Chelsea
Man Utd
Arsenal
Liverpool
Man City
Villa
Spurs*
Fulham
Birmingham
Sunderland
Everton
Stoke
Blackburn
Wigan
Burnley
Portsmouth
Bolton
Hull
West Ham
Wolves

*I'm being pessimistic as a spurs fan used to seeing us throw away good points so im putting us 7th that said I think that 4th is up for grabs and it will be the last day of the season before its decided and any 1 of liverpool,citeh,Villa & spurs could take it
I put united ahead of arsenal because once they get defenders fit they will be a very strong force again