Who cares if overpricing pubs with silly door policies go bust?

Biggins

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Impossible, not with -0.5% off vat and 12cent off a pint.

Aye, that's gonna get the public back in their masses.
...and thats if they pass on the reduction which I personally have yet to see.

I wonder where will the smug cockiness (I've personally seen) of a lot of landlords and Nightclub owners/lease holders go then!

helimachoptor

Going out in Dublin is massively expensives. I remember the pre euro days of £1 a drink, £10 in and 10 drinks great nights

Was visiting a friend of mine in aachen (germany) during the summer, Went out 3 nights while there, night 1, dinner + starter + desert for 3 people, 2 bottles of wine + 3 beers = €70

Night 2 Dinner+ Starter + Desert for 3 people, 1 bottle of wine, + 15 beers €100

Night 3 went to a tapas bar, got 2 tapas(big servings!) each total (€18) each beer was €2


Night out in the local, pints say 6*€5, dinner in pub 10-15 (or chipper after 5/6)

so for 2 people €80 compare that to above...

Colin Sparse Pickaxe

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote: »

I wouldn't bother either.

I was talking to the manager of the Blacker' in Coolock a few weeks ago and mentioned about the fantastic deals on beer's he's doing there and he told me that because they're at the start of the M1 he just can't get people in to buy!.

Plus I'm one of these (probably) silly people who really believe's in keeping our money in the republic.

I can see some people's reasoning behind traveling up - hell I've done it myself (pre recession). My dad went up a few weeks back to get my mam her bacardi. £12 a litre. That is a shocking difference. I paid €22 for a 70cl bottle on xmas eve. He bought her 24 litres :eek:
He picked me up a case of Oyster bay for £36 and a nice bottle of sancerre for £8. €50 in total which is nice for 7 bottles of decent wine, but certainly wouldn't be worth my while traveling for.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Biggins wrote: »

He should care though.
If the money is not in the till, sooner or later it won't be in his pocket in wages.

A lot of the pubs in the new year will be begging for business.
The attitude of the doormen will suddenly change in some places then I suspect!

I know he should care, but most don't.

As regards doorstaff, a huge amount are muppets but having had over 15 yrs door work experience I take whatever is posted online about people's experiences with the guys with a very large pinch of salt.

Usually they've posted a scenario I've witnessed hundreds, if not thousands of times. And just like the bar manager, its usually something which the guys really couldn't care less about & people can rant & scream all night but after while its just water off a ducks back and I suspect that goes with jobs in retail, catering, driving a bus, taxi driver's or any other job where one is dealing with the public.

All that, and a lot of spoofs too!.

In the case of the story here re. bringing all the lads out of the pub, honestly I don't believe it.

I believe he probably tried, I've seen that before - but what usually happens is some of the guys are settled and won't move, some are happy their in a pub and won't risk leaving and getting turned away from the other place.

So the author of the story enhances it to big himself up, I've seen this played out so many times and fail that I just don't believe people.

sunnyjim

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote:

Plus I'm one of these (probably) silly people who really believe's in keeping our money in the republic.

Not at all Colin Sparse Pickaxe, I'm with you. We all should be buying Irish if it means we get good value. As usual, us Irish are trying to prove a point, only not to realise that

a) by not buying Irish, we wont be paying any VAT
b) our local shops will close (an end to plenty of part-time jobs)
c) we all end up in a bigger heap than before

No one is saying "buy irish at any cost", but if you pay for the good deals instead of buying NI full stop, it'll help.

In the case of the story here re. bringing all the lads out of the pub, honestly I don't believe it.

I've seen it happen tons of times. One place that me and a group have left for x reason is the Ivy House. Some really strange door policies there.

And back to the original topic - it was 15 quid into McGowans on Stephens night. Glad I was doing the family thing instead, I wouldn't have paid!

Biggins

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote: »

...So the author of the story enhances it to big himself up, I've seen this played out so many times and fail that I just don't believe people.

You could be right or not, I can't say either way.
All I can do is relate something I saw earlier this year, possibly to show that such things do happen sometimes.

A local bar of mine has been used as a bikers bar for years, absolute years.
There was never any trouble with them. In fact a lot of them, the older ones were married with wives and kids etc. They just had a common interest, that of motor bikes and had a motorbike club which did charity fund-raising, etc.

One night one of their group was refused entry at the door for some reason.
I can't say what for but he wasn't drunk, argumentative or ever a source of trouble.
He just wasn't let in and told to "go away". He rang the group inside and told one of them that he was stuck outside.
The group all asked the bar owner nicely, genuinely nicely, if he could be let in as he was never trouble before (as the owner himself knew only too well).
The owner refused and took the attitude that whatever the doormen says, goes.

LOL well that was that. ALL the group downed drinks, stood up and left.
Now this was a 35+ member group that weekly for years held their weekly unofficial gatherings and official meetings, parties (family or bike organisation) and weddings functions, etc in the property.
They all just upped and left. They have never returned.

The landlord/owner since then has lost a MASSIVE amount of cash weekly alone from their lack of appearance.
He has gone to the organisers of the Bike club and begged for them to come back and use his business.
The group told him where to go and it wasn't on a bike!

So as to the earlier retold event, I can't say if its true or not but just from personal experience (and I've seen it a number of times over my own many years) I know such things actually do happen.
Thats all.

AnonoBoy

So.... who's up for pints then?

thatsa spicy

As somebody mentioned previously, 24 bottles of 5.0% stella in Tesco for 15 euro....you'd get 2 nights of light-to-moderate drinking out of that, so 7.50 euro for a nights drinking. And as the same poster said, download the dvd, obviously. Food....sure just eat whatever you can find in the house. If you have no food, why the hell are you wasting money on drink at all...
And go out to the pub (and spend fuk all) on big occasions if you want, just so as not to seem to scabby to your mates

El Siglo

It's economics folks, if you can improve your utility by going North for drink then you will do so, it's a non co-operative zero sum game and unfortunately the banana republic loses out. I say if you can, shop up north and keep shopping this is how you'll force publicans et al. to lower their prices. It's not up to politicians, legislation etc... to force a lowering of prices, it's up to the consumer. And to hell with all of this 'keep the money in the republic' rubbish, we're all Europeans now and this is how European integration works (to the detriment of publicans in the republic!).

Biggins

El Siglo wrote: »

It's economics folks, if you can improve your utility by going North for drink then you will do so, it's a non co-operative zero sum game and unfortunately the banana republic loses out. I say if you can, shop up north and keep shopping this is how you'll force publicans et al. to lower their prices. It's not up to politicians, legislation etc... to force a lowering of prices, it's up to the consumer. And to hell with all of this 'keep the money in the republic' rubbish, we're all Europeans now and this is how European integration works (to the detriment of publicans in the republic!).

Agree with El Siglo on a good point made within.
You got to vote with your feet - sometimes not easy to do.
People get away with stuff because sometimes we still use their services knowing they are still ripping us off.
Till we stop returning to the same culprits like gluttons for punishment, expect nothing to change!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Deleted User wrote: »

Were not talking about a night out clubbing, were discussing going to a pub. There is a huge difference.

15 euro will certainly buy you a dvd, food and a few bottles of decent beer. Were not talking about drinking cheap crap either, you can pick up a bottle of Old Speckled Hen for 1.48 up North which is what I drink most nights. The only pubs which serve it down here that I've been in charged 5.45 and 5.75 per bottle.

You can certainly go out and spend as little as 15 euro but you won't be buying much alcohol.

You originaly said beer for the night Now you are suggesting travelling all the way to the north, for your few beers to save money? Eh...

As for the alcohol I drank for 15 quid, I was smashed... completely. You just gotta know where to go and when. For 15 euro, you will not get a dvd and food and beer, you will get a dvd and some beer, or dvd and some food... but not all three

Dyr

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote: »

I know he should care, but most don't.

As regards doorstaff, a huge amount are muppets but having had over 15 yrs door work experience I take whatever is posted online about people's experiences with the guys with a very large pinch of salt.

Usually they've posted a scenario I've witnessed hundreds, if not thousands of times. And just like the bar manager, its usually something which the guys really couldn't care less about & people can rant & scream all night but after while its just water off a ducks back and I suspect that goes with jobs in retail, catering, driving a bus, taxi driver's or any other job where one is dealing with the public.

All that, and a lot of spoofs too!.

In the case of the story here re. bringing all the lads out of the pub, honestly I don't believe it.

I believe he probably tried, I've seen that before - but what usually happens is some of the guys are settled and won't move, some are happy their in a pub and won't risk leaving and getting turned away from the other place.

So the author of the story enhances it to big himself up, I've seen this played out so many times and fail that I just don't believe people.

In all fairness, I've known lots of doormen and the majority are there to prove something to themselves rather than to earn a wage, that's even the lads who weren't just **** to start with

Interestingly enough, the refurbished dorans/rock garden place tried to charge a group of us a fiver each to darken their door, I laughed at yer wan and we went elsewhere. I ain't paying into any business so I can buy their product, especially in a kip like that.

Look at it this way, you pay money into a gig, you're paying for a service..the music. You pay into a cinema, you're paying to a see a film. Have you ever paid into a restaurant?

What the F**K are you paying into a boozer or club for? What service are you paying for? The privilege of buying their booze? To listen to some nobody DJ? To talk to your friends or other random punters? F**k dat.

Fighting Irish

redorblack wrote: »

Last night (Stephens night) after finishing work tried to go into Laurels in Clondalkin, we were met by 3 bouncers at the door and were refused entry at 9pm because we were told it was ticket only, said fair enough plenty of other places, no problem so went across the road to Quinlans and told they were closed, they clearly werent. No problem we said and went across to the Village inn, where we got in alright but had to pay a fiver to get into the kip but did just to get out of the rain at that stage.

The amount of publicans in the press complaining about the pub trade dying makes me laugh, having to pay in to pay rip off prices for crap pints thown at us? You cant put it all down to drink driving laws and smoking bans, maybe you are a bunch of robbing c*nts who have taken us for granted for far too long.

Most publicans who are bitching are the rural ones, not the ones you are talking about

arybvtcw0eolkf

Bambi wrote: »

In all fairness, I've known lots of doormen and the majority are there to prove something to themselves rather than to earn a wage, that's even the lads who weren't just **** to start with

Door staff who think they're hard men and are in the business just for that are usually found out pretty early and either put inside working (if the club is stuck with 'em), told their not suited to the particular premises & fired or if they're working for a security company they'll be on the bottom rung of the ladder and will find themselves moved around frequently.

Or worse case scenario they'll push their luck with some punters and a number of things will happen;

A, a they'll get a beating.

2, they'll give a beating and end up in the garda station justifying their actions.

3, they'll assault someone and be fired immediately.

You have to accept that just like every other job in the world, you'll find ****. But either way, they won't last too long in the business.

Bambi wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the refurbished dorans/rock garden place tried to charge a group of us a fiver each to darken their door, I laughed at yer wan and we went elsewhere. I ain't paying into any business so I can buy their product, especially in a kip like that.

I'm with you there.

Bambi wrote: »

Look at it this way, you pay money into a gig, you're paying for a service..the music. You pay into a cinema, you're paying to a see a film. Have you ever paid into a restaurant?

What the F**K are you paying into a boozer or club for? What service are you paying for? The privilege of buying their booze? To listen to some nobody DJ? To talk to your friends or other random punters? F**k dat.

Again I'm with you.

I tend not to drink in bar's with door staff.

Of course I'm also at an age now where I expect doorstaff to say "good evening" and hold the door open for me and not give me the once over.

sunnyjim

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Most publicans who are bitching are the rural ones, not the ones you are talking about

Not at all. Just listen to all the guys like Robbie Fox et al. Whole chains of pubs are closing in Dublin.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Biggins I wasn't ignoring your post, I won't qoute it all here as its very long.

In the case you described the owner made a really bad call, again I've worked in bar's where a certain group of good spender's were given a lot of leeway, thats good business.

But younger lads out on the rip rarely frequent any one particular bar/club for too long, so when one gets a little lippy its kinda like I described above - switch off time - because that kind of punter will come and go and at the end of the week the tills won't notice their absence.

Biggins

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote: »

Biggins I wasn't ignoring your post, I won't qoute it all here as its very long.

In the case you described the owner made a really bad call, again I've worked in bar's where a certain group of good spender's were given a lot of leeway, thats good business.

No worries.

Aye, in certain cases, owners do make a bad call.
As the saying goes "cut their nose off to spite their faces" etc...

People (including publicans but not exclusively them) tend to conveniently forget where their money is daily coming from, who is providing it, etc.
For some, a sharp reminder is clearly called for and we should be doing it a lot more.

Darksaga87

Colin Sparse Pickaxe wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble, but most likely he really didn't care.

He's on a salary, doesn't matter a damn to him if you take the whole pub with you he'll still get paid.

Doesnt bother me either, he had a face on him that looked like he was sucking a lemon! Anyway, I had my fun!:D

Also id say he was p***ed off that his tips were going to be pretty measly.
I still go in the bar and we are quite plesent to each other.

redorblack

redorblack wrote: »

Last night (Stephens night) after finishing work tried to go into Laurels in Clondalkin, we were met by 3 bouncers at the door and were refused entry at 9pm because we were told it was ticket only, said fair enough plenty of other places, no problem so went across the road to Quinlans and told they were closed, they clearly werent. No problem we said and went across to the Village inn, where we got in alright but had to pay a fiver to get into the kip but did just to get out of the rain at that stage.

The amount of publicans in the press complaining about the pub trade dying makes me laugh, having to pay in to pay rip off prices for crap pints thown at us? You cant put it all down to drink driving laws and smoking bans, maybe you are a bunch of robbing c*nts who have taken us for granted for far too long.

difference between dublin pubs and country pubs.

Degag

Pubs have absolutely massive overheads.... having sky and setanta costs about €7000 a year alone. I am in the trade myself - only a worker mind and not an owner or manager - but the publican can only expect to make 17c profit on an average price per pint of €4. The price of a pint of Guinness in my local is €3.60 after the price decrease of 15c and there are still people complaining! Prices in cities, especially Dublin are ridiculous though. And paying to get in to pubs and clubs is too.

It kind of irks me though when i see people saying that they can rent a dvd, have dinner and drinks for €15. That's great - but it shouldn't really be comparable to having a night out. It's fairly obvious that you would pay more on a night out than a night in anyway!

consultech

Degag wrote: »

Pubs have absolutely massive overheads.... having sky and setanta costs about €7000 a year alone. I am in the trade myself - only a worker mind and not an owner or manager - but the publican can only expect to make 17c profit on an average price per pint of €4. The price of a pint of Guinness in my local is €3.60 after the price decrease of 15c and there are still people complaining! Prices in cities, especially Dublin are ridiculous though. And paying to get in to pubs and clubs is too.

It kind of irks me though when i see people saying that they can rent a dvd, have dinner and drinks for €15. That's great - but it shouldn't really be comparable to having a night out. It's fairly obvious that you would pay more on a night out than a night in anyway!

It only irks you coz it means your job mate. If you were on the other side of the fence you'd be singin the same tune as everyone else.

It isn't just a matter of people having a problem with the exhorbitant prices they're being made pay; it's the attitude of the people serving them, and the general joke that most Irish pubs and clubs are. For that kind of money people are expecting decent service, which they're not getting.

Staying in shouldn't be comparable in terms of a good time, no... In most other countries it wouldn't be, but the state of the pubs and clubs in this country make it a no brainer most of the time, sorry!

ToxicPaddy

Publicans who are in the trade years are suffering but if they were sensible they should survive.. Most knew their customers, provided a decent pint at a reasonable price and had friendly staff.. these are they guys I would hate to see going out of business. There are one or two like that in town but not enough and most should survive as good drinking customers can be a very loyal bunch if treated right..

Its the newcomers who were out to rip people off and the pub groups with their so called superpubs are the ones who are suffering and I really dont care what happens to them.. granted a lot of jobs will be lost if they go out of business and I dont like to see people losing their jobs, but charging €7 a pint and a door charge is nuts, so if they close, no loss to me, as I stopped going to those places a long time ago..

If I go into a pub that I havent been in before and get some smart ass behind the bar who throws the drink at you and charged you a small fortune for the privilege then that's fine, he'll get the cost of one pint from me, he wont get a second.

As for guys on the door, yes there are idiots, you get them in every industry. Any guy with experience who knows his job, I have no problems with. A good door man rarely has problems and can talk a guy out of causing some.. and when entering a pub with door men I always say hello and smile, you'd be surprised how good a response you get when you do that.
Its nice to be nice

Its true, you can have a good night at home with a few mates, some decent take away and a good movie but I still like to pop down to the local for a few quiet pints or into town to meet some mates..

Tox

El Siglo

Degag wrote: »

Pubs have absolutely massive overheads.... having sky and setanta costs about €7000 a year alone. I am in the trade myself - only a worker mind and not an owner or manager - but the publican can only expect to make 17c profit on an average price per pint of €4. The price of a pint of Guinness in my local is €3.60 after the price decrease of 15c and there are still people complaining! Prices in cities, especially Dublin are ridiculous though. And paying to get in to pubs and clubs is too.

It kind of irks me though when i see people saying that they can rent a dvd, have dinner and drinks for €15. That's great - but it shouldn't really be comparable to having a night out. It's fairly obvious that you would pay more on a night out than a night in anyway!

Yes but the average pint doesn't cost €4, it's usually more in the GDA (Greater Dublin Area, i.e. Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and Meath) and I say GDA because that area pretty much dictates what happens in the rest of the country, unfortunately. Yes the overheads might be high, but try and balance out the price with other incentives. I know a bar owner in a rural part of Laois (Ballybrittas) who offers free lifts home in a minibus to punters. Now, even with the journey time and fuel costs incurred, it pays off in the long run for him because he keeps his clientele. Now, I've yet to see such incentives and innovation by publicans in Dublin and elsewhere. For too long, publicans had it easy (regardless of what you argue, when the money and demand was there they charged through the roof and offer little else). Now that the flow of credit has all but dried up, do you still expect punters to pay the same or similar extortionate prices now? Of course not, so if you can't lower prices, you're going to have to trade off with something else e.g. get rid of Setanta and Sky and offer €3 pints. Even if there was a match on this simple step would attract customers. Will publicans take such a gamble? No. What about offering free food? How much per unit cost would a cocktail sausage be, one tenth of a cent? I know one pub in Loughborough that works like a stock exchange, with the pint prices on electronic boards, and based on the consumption that night, the prices of pints adjust accordingly. Complicated as this might sound, the principle of offering at certain times extremely cheap drink has attracted customers and helps the owner shift the least desirable alcohol, and for the shear curiousity and novelty factor. How come, with massive unemployment, deflation increasing each quarter, that publicans seem to concentrate more on sticking to rigid prices schemes and the status quo? What has a publican to lose by taking a gamble and incentivising alcohol consumption in such a manner? Either way, you're going to lose some money but at least by creating the incentive to come to the pub, you're losses will decrease in the long run as deflation continues etc... I guarantee that if pubs, don't get over themselves as the bastions of social exchange in this country, cop onto the fact that people simply can't afford the expense incurred by frequenting such establishments, then they will ultimately fail as enterprises. The key to a successful business is adapting to the environment you're in, it's not 2006 anymore, people don't have the money, so start offering something new in exchange if you're asking them to part with their hard earned cash or weekly dole payment. If pubs take the price hit now, they'll save themselves bankruptcy or insolvency as opposed to carrying on as is and facing these problems in a year or less.

Naikon

Rabies wrote: »

I charge $5 a night to enter the two clubs I run.

Its nothing. Works out at about E2.5.
The reason is, people come to dance. Not to drink. You might think we're making loads of money every night. But we don't
The $5 charge is paying for the privilege to dance in my club. If you can't afford it, then there is a high chance you won't buy a drink. Then you are taking up space for valued customers that want to spend.
Now saying that, loads of regulars (at least 50) will get in for free on the night. These are people who we recognise and spend money. They will never pay entry fee.
The rest. Pay up, or don't come in.
Wed-Fri is free entry to both clubs. Only Saturday has a charge.

Staff costs, security, stock, a large office team to support, rent, over heads, promo, advertising.... This isn't as free!

True that. There are some rip off holes that come to mind.
Pubs have overheads that need to be accounted for though.

Sitting at home drinking cans and eating pizza does not cost
much money. Running a business does however.

People would not believe how much publicans generally pay
for simple things like sky sports. Breaking even is not good.

Jeanious

Rabies wrote: »

Staff costs, security, stock, a large office team to support, rent, over heads, promo, advertising.... This isn't as free!

Well fcuk me pink, Burger King have to pay all that too, and i don't see them chargin in....

Biggins

Originally Posted by Rabies
I charge $5 a night to enter the two clubs I run.

Its nothing. Works out at about E2.5.
The reason is, people come to dance. Not to drink. You might think we're making loads of money every night. But we don't
The $5 charge is paying for the privilege to dance in my club. If you can't afford it, then there is a high chance you won't buy a drink. Then you are taking up space for valued customers that want to spend.
Now saying that, loads of regulars (at least 50) will get in for free on the night. These are people who we recognise and spend money. They will never pay entry fee.
The rest. Pay up, or don't come in.
Wed-Fri is free entry to both clubs. Only Saturday has a charge.

Staff costs, security, stock, a large office team to support, rent, over heads, promo, advertising.... This isn't as free!

You have a major valid point.
What annoys me (and others I'm guessing) though is the like of the local pub that one has been drinking in all year round and giving them your money freely and willingly.
Then, just because its the Christmas period, the local pub slaps a 5/10/whatever Euro charge on the pub door as admission.
That really annoys me and I've come across it many a time.

I've changed pubs completely more than once over this - and made sure I let the landlord know why.

unnameduser

One good thing from the recession is that it will show up the decent bars from the pure rip offs.

The guys in my local appreciate the custom and treat locals v well. Free finger food and even drive some of the heavy drinkers home afterwards!

SeaFields

My local used to be a lovely old mans pub with a great atmosphere. The son of the owner took over and the "super-pub" bug got hold. Now its a fcuking pretentious sh!thole full of w@nkers.

He jacks up the price by 50c at midnight (which only came to light recently) and charges €10 for his range of cocktails.

He can stick his pub up his hole and we dont drink there no more.

Darksaga87

Many publicans have not heard of business 101 : DONT RIP OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS!

veryangryman

AARRRGH wrote: »

I spent a couple of weeks in Barcelona. Dinner for two would be around €25, and then you'd be able to get drunk for another €10 each.

All of this would be happening in bars where they are delighted to have you as a customer, and would even offer you free drinks and tapas just for being there.

They give you free sambos, sausages etc in any sound bar here too - you just need to go to the right places.

Also, the price of food/drink here as a proportion of the average wage is pretty much the same in ireland as elsewhere. In business, you charge what people can afford to pay. Simple