Who cares if overpricing pubs with silly door policies go bust?

El Siglo

Darksaga87 wrote: »

Many publicans have not heard of business 101 : DONT RIP OFF YOUR CUSTOMERS!

Many publicans have not heard of 'business', full stop.

Miriam Nervous Raspberry

Miriam Nervous Raspberry wrote: »

You originaly said beer for the night Now you are suggesting travelling all the way to the north, for your few beers to save money? Eh...

As for the alcohol I drank for 15 quid, I was smashed... completely. You just gotta know where to go and when. For 15 euro, you will not get a dvd and food and beer, you will get a dvd and some beer, or dvd and some food... but not all three

15 euro will easily get all 3 that is if you know how to shop, buying the crate of Corrs mentioned earlier down here and then splitting them over a number of nights will go a long way.

I used shopping up North simply because so many people do it and very few people go up just for beer and anyone who does is sure to stock up enough beer ot last a few weeks/months, bot just purchase on nights worth.

Degag

consultech wrote: »

It only irks you coz it means your job mate. If you were on the other side of the fence you'd be singin the same tune as everyone else.

I'm often at the other side of the fence. i drink in pubs too just like the rest of ye! It's just another perspective. I know that staying in costs less than a night out but i don't whinge about it. I don't especially enjoy staying in anyway.

El Siglo wrote: »

Yes but the average pint doesn't cost €4, it's usually more in the GDA (Greater Dublin Area, i.e. Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare and Meath) and I say GDA because that area pretty much dictates what happens in the rest of the country, unfortunately. Yes the overheads might be high, but try and balance out the price with other incentives. I know a bar owner in a rural part of Laois (Ballybrittas) who offers free lifts home in a minibus to punters. Now, even with the journey time and fuel costs incurred, it pays off in the long run for him because he keeps his clientele. Now, I've yet to see such incentives and innovation by publicans in Dublin and elsewhere. For too long, publicans had it easy (regardless of what you argue, when the money and demand was there they charged through the roof and offer little else). Now that the flow of credit has all but dried up, do you still expect punters to pay the same or similar extortionate prices now? Of course not, so if you can't lower prices, you're going to have to trade off with something else e.g. get rid of Setanta and Sky and offer €3 pints. Even if there was a match on this simple step would attract customers. Will publicans take such a gamble? No. What about offering free food? How much per unit cost would a cocktail sausage be, one tenth of a cent? I know one pub in Loughborough that works like a stock exchange, with the pint prices on electronic boards, and based on the consumption that night, the prices of pints adjust accordingly. Complicated as this might sound, the principle of offering at certain times extremely cheap drink has attracted customers and helps the owner shift the least desirable alcohol, and for the shear curiousity and novelty factor. How come, with massive unemployment, deflation increasing each quarter, that publicans seem to concentrate more on sticking to rigid prices schemes and the status quo? What has a publican to lose by taking a gamble and incentivising alcohol consumption in such a manner? Either way, you're going to lose some money but at least by creating the incentive to come to the pub, you're losses will decrease in the long run as deflation continues etc... I guarantee that if pubs, don't get over themselves as the bastions of social exchange in this country, cop onto the fact that people simply can't afford the expense incurred by frequenting such establishments, then they will ultimately fail as enterprises. The key to a successful business is adapting to the environment you're in, it's not 2006 anymore, people don't have the money, so start offering something new in exchange if you're asking them to part with their hard earned cash or weekly dole payment. If pubs take the price hit now, they'll save themselves bankruptcy or insolvency as opposed to carrying on as is and facing these problems in a year or less.

We do free food in our place for functions, free music and if a customer wants a drive home any of us will take them home free of charge. When i said €4 average price, i meant to say that 17c was the average profit from a pint at this price. Apologies.

xw2lj9uspm1eyh

€8.50 for a pint of redbull they can go to hell for all i care :mad:

TJJP

Miriam Nervous Raspberry wrote: »

It's not the pubs in the cities that are effected by the recession, smoking ban or other.

Eh, yes it is, and rightly so.

thinks too much

my local pub which is in a very rural area is packed from thursday to sunday every week..the reason being that thw owner will bring you home in his own car once you have had your fill of ale. charges nothing for this as he knows people will come back week in week...

Rabies

coyle wrote: »

Well fcuk me pink, Burger King have to pay all that too, and i don't see them chargin in....

A slice of the takings go to the main company.
The franchise is very expensive to buy.
Mass group buying power results in cheap stock purchase price of inferior food.
Staff are usually very young and low skill set.
Staff retention is crap.



Now I do agree with that not every bar/club should charge an entry fee or have high prices. It seems that its mainly a Dublin problem.
But sometimes its nice way of keeping some people out that don't fit in to bar.

A few weeks ago I re did my mezzanine floor. Not visually, didn't rename, furniture is still there. Its the same. But what I did change was my prices and customers. If you want to walk from the main floor to upstairs, you now need to get past a bouncer. He is told to keep the ratio of guys/girls very good. Only hot girls and guys that a dressed smart, not casual are allowed up. Now groups of young people. Then when finally get up there, you definitely have a seat. Loads of room... but, you pay the price. The drinks are more expensive and only premium spirits are used. Smaller crowd up there now. But I get a better spend per head.

Some people are moaning about not being allowed in to bars or clubs and given a shoddy reason. Yes, sometimes it is complete bullsh!t. But other times, I'll be honest, we don't like the look of you or have watched you walking down the street. We don't know if you have loads of money and could ready to drop a few hundred in our bar. Its a risk we take.

Comparing the cost of a night out to staying in with a dvd and beer bought up north is stupid. You pay for the experience, atmosphere and services of the venue. You don't back home.
Definitely compare similar pubs, pick the best one to your needs and screw the other one. You get what you want.

Saying all that, I do have one major gripe with Irish bars/clubs. They need to stop charging for mixers!! That is my biggest issue. People pay enough for the spirit. Give the mixer free!

Rabies

Rabies wrote: »

.Comparing the cost of a night out to staying in with a dvd and beer bought up north is stupid. You pay for the experience, atmosphere and services of the venue. You don't back home.
Definitely compare similar pubs, pick the best one to your needs and screw the other one. You get what you want.

No one is comparing the two, we all recognise that when you go to a pub the atmosphere is one of the most important factors. If people continue to pay extortionate prices for alcohol then nothing will change, people need to start voting with their feet as they say.

TJJP

Rabies wrote: »

A few weeks ago I re did my mezzanine floor. Not visually, didn't rename, furniture is still there. Its the same. But what I did change was my prices and customers. If you want to walk from the main floor to upstairs, you now need to get past a bouncer. He is told to keep the ratio of guys/girls very good. Only hot girls and guys that a dressed smart, not casual are allowed up. Now groups of young people. Then when finally get up there, you definitely have a seat. Loads of room... but, you pay the price. The drinks are more expensive and only premium spirits are used. Smaller crowd up there now. But I get a better spend per head.

Some people are moaning about not being allowed in to bars or clubs and given a shoddy reason. Yes, sometimes it is complete bullsh!t. But other times, I'll be honest, we don't like the look of you or have watched you walking down the street. We don't know if you have loads of money and could ready to drop a few hundred in our bar.

Do let us know where your establishment is so I can avoid it like the plague. I'd rather buy my crystal elsewhere. Sure you wouldn’t like my €100 notes anyways, I’d probably be dressed incorrectly. My 3 year old €300 Mephisto’s might look like dirty Nikes.

Dyr

Rabies wrote: »

You pay for the experience, atmosphere and services of the venue. You don't back home.

Not really usually in Dublin you're paying because the establishment knows you're already half p**sed and will shell up. As far atmosphere and experience..hmm we're still talking dublin here? . But I take exception to the idea that you're in some way paying for services with an admission because frankly you're paying twice then. The best restaurants in this country wouldnt have the gall to charge someone just to sit at their table.

Rabies, you mentioned that you were charging people because they were coming to your club to dance. Is that really your customers primary reason for giving you their patronage? say If you stopped serving alcohol how many people would be coming to your club to just dance?

Rabies

Bambi wrote: »

Rabies, you mentioned that you were charging people because they were coming to your club to dance. Is that really your customers primary reason for giving you their patronage? say If you stopped serving alcohol how many people would be coming to your club to just dance?

I run at about $5-$7 a head spend.
Other more profitable places around me run at $11-$14 a head.

People trying to bring in drink, just dancing, drinking water, one drink an hour etc.
I rely on mass turn over of people to make money.
The door charge on that one day a week helps make up the short fall and its on my busiest day.
I can have 450 people in one of the clubs and have 8 bar staff working but only 2 serving at anyone time. Here and there the bar will get a big surge, not all night.

jape

Rabies wrote: »

few weeks ago I re did my mezzanine floor. Not visually, didn't rename, furniture is still there. Its the same. But what I did change was my prices and customers. If you want to walk from the main floor to upstairs, you now need to get past a bouncer. He is told to keep the ratio of guys/girls very good. Only hot girls and guys that a dressed smart, not casual are allowed up. Now groups of young people. Then when finally get up there, you definitely have a seat. Loads of room... but, you pay the price. The drinks are more expensive and only premium spirits are used. Smaller crowd up there now. But I get a better spend per head.

Some people are moaning about not being allowed in to bars or clubs and given a shoddy reason. Yes, sometimes it is complete bullsh!t. But other times, I'll be honest, we don't like the look of you or have watched you walking down the street. We don't know if you have loads of money and could ready to drop a few hundred in our bar. Its a risk we take.

What a load of pretentious nonsense. My parents have been running a successful business for the last 40 years and would never dream of looking down on or treating a customer like this.

dresden8

Rabies wrote: »

I run at about $5-$7 a head spend.
Other more profitable places around me run at $11-$14 a head.

Lol. I look sh1t.

I usually spend 70-80 euro on a night out.

You should perhaps re-visit your business model.

I do not visit these sh1tholes any more. They do not appreciate me or my money.

Fnck em.

You may be abroad, the principle holds.

Rabies

jape wrote: »

What a load of pretentious nonsense. My parents have been running a successful business for the last 40 years and would never dream of looking down on or treating a customer like this.

People are shallow creatures. They like beautiful people, go where the hot girls are.
I have huge queues to get in a weekends to both places.
The nature of the music is what keeps my takings lower than I'd like. If I changed it, and re worked it all I would make more. But that is starting from scratch. Not yet.
Do your parents run a 'locals bar'? Completely different if they do.
I've ran a locals bar before. Knew everyone's names, drinks. Would chat to people every day. Made some good friends and still have them. Free food on fridays. Always free entry, the bar made loads of money. Different people, massive difference in the age group and spend.

dresden8 wrote: »

Lol. I look sh1t.

I usually spend 70-80 euro on a night out.

You should perhaps re-visit your business model.

I do not visit these sh1tholes any more. They do not appreciate me or my money.

Fnck em.

You may be abroad, the principle holds.

I spend $100-$250 a night.
Its the market the venue is aimed at, different spend per head, its expected. We're very busy, but the take is smaller compared to other places of less capacity. We still make money, but not what it could possible make. We do different things here and there to make it special and it works. Get the little extra injection of cash.... plus we do put on drink specials. Not everything is full price always.

dresden8

Rabies wrote: »

I spend $100-$250 a night.
Its the market the venue is aimed at, different spend per head, its expected. We're very busy, but the take is smaller compared to other places of less capacity. We still make money, but not what it could possible make. We do different things here and there to make it special and it works. Get the little extra injection of cash.... plus we do put on drink specials. Not everything is full price always.

Well if it works for you it works for you.

What I can't stand is places that treat me like sh1t complaining that I don't spend my money there.

As I said before, fnck them.

tech77

craggles wrote: »

I swallowed a teabag once.

Please...do go on.

TitoPuente

sunnyjim wrote: »

Not at all Makikomi, I'm with you. We all should be buying Irish if it means we get good value. As usual, us Irish are trying to prove a point, only not to realise that

a) by not buying Irish, we wont be paying any VAT
b) our local shops will close (an end to plenty of part-time jobs)
c) we all end up in a bigger heap than before

No one is saying "buy irish at any cost", but if you pay for the good deals instead of buying NI full stop, it'll help.

I suppose the other way to look at things is that shopping at home will also commensurately keep prices at an inflated level and encourage our lack of economic competitiveness.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

TJJP wrote: »

Eh, yes it is, and rightly so.

Eh no it's not... open your eyes and get a clue, would ya?

Rabies wrote: »

Now I do agree with that not every bar/club should charge an entry fee or have high prices. It seems that its mainly a Dublin problem.
But sometimes its nice way of keeping some people out that don't fit in to bar.

What a crock of bullshít. Who are you keeping out? You think scumbags and trouble makers don't have money? The perception that only good decent folk have money is just plain stupid.

A few weeks ago I re did my mezzanine floor. Not visually, didn't rename, furniture is still there. Its the same. But what I did change was my prices and customers. If you want to walk from the main floor to upstairs, you now need to get past a bouncer. He is told to keep the ratio of guys/girls very good. Only hot girls and guys that a dressed smart, not casual are allowed up. Now groups of young people. Then when finally get up there, you definitely have a seat. Loads of room... but, you pay the price. The drinks are more expensive and only premium spirits are used. Smaller crowd up there now. But I get a better spend per head.

This type of practice is what we need less of. You are basically descriminating against somebody based on something they have very little control over. To the best of my knowledge it's somewhat illegal here. Whatever about not letting in people you know are trouble makers, drunk or are not dressed accordingly, but not letting somebody in because they are ugly or not easy on the eye is disgusting behaviour. Refusing guys because they "might" be trouble is stupid.

Some people are moaning about not being allowed in to bars or clubs and given a shoddy reason. Yes, sometimes it is complete bullsh!t. But other times, I'll be honest, we don't like the look of you or have watched you walking down the street. We don't know if you have loads of money and could ready to drop a few hundred in our bar. Its a risk we take.

Don't like the look of me? What a load of bullshít. How the fcuk are people supposed to look to get into your club? What's the ideal patron, not taking money into account. Do you take in overweight people? What about religion and race, does that have anything to do with it?

Saying all that, I do have one major gripe with Irish bars/clubs. They need to stop charging for mixers!! That is my biggest issue. People pay enough for the spirit. Give the mixer free!

Hypocrit... your practices are somewhat more controversial and scummy than charging 70 cent for a splash of coke...

Rabies

Overweight people? Ya. But if they come in big oversized t-shirts or sports tops. No! Same for small people.

Don't like the look of you? Ya, pretty much not getting in. Look dodgy in queue, spotted drinking around the corner, being sleazy with girls on the street. Eyes popping out of you head and chewing your jaw off? Old jeans and a t-shirt? No!

Mossy Monk

Was in a pub on Saturday watching football, as was every single person there at 6pm. Manager comes in at 6.30 and turns it off and then the pub empties. The same manager was advertising live football for Sunday. I don't believe he did too well. Treat your customers with contempt and they will tell you to **** off.

Rabies

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Was in a pub on Saturday watching football, as was every single person there at 6pm. Manager comes in at 6.30 and turns it off and then the pub empties. The same manager was advertising live football for Sunday. I don't believe he did too well. Treat your customers with contempt and they will tell you to **** off.

ha ha.
Did anyone call him up on it? Stupid

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Rabies wrote: »

Overweight people? Ya. But if they come in big oversized t-shirts or sports tops. No! Same for small people.

Don't like the look of you? Ya, pretty much not getting in. Look dodgy in queue, spotted drinking around the corner, being sleazy with girls on the street. Eyes popping out of you head and chewing your jaw off? Old jeans and a t-shirt? No!

You presented your post as if you only let in hot well dressed people. What looks dodgy to you looks fine to me. On XTC, drinking outside fair enough... being sleazy? What is your idea of sleazy? What is your idea of old jeans? Football jersey's are normally a no no, but a t-shirt? Why would you not accept people who wear a t-shirt? If that is the trend then WTF? And the oversized t-shirts? WTF? That's the fcuking thickest reason for not letting somebody in.

"Sorry sir, not tonight, your t-shirt is too big"

abouttobebanned

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Was in a pub on Saturday watching football, as was every single person there at 6pm. Manager comes in at 6.30 and turns it off and then the pub empties. The same manager was advertising live football for Sunday. I don't believe he did too well. Treat your customers with contempt and they will tell you to **** off.

What was the pub mossy?

Rabies

That should have read old jeans and old t shirt.

Over sized t-shirts. Ya, it can be a problem here. As with people still wearing a shirt and trying to get in, but having a big t-shirt hanging out. You can look at them and know straight away that they're not for here.

Casual is fine, jeans and t shirt. All good. Old and tatty or grubby, no.

I'm one of the few that are honest about how it works. Its the nature of the industry. People are wondering why they're not allowed in, I'm explaining. The odd thing is, some people never experience this.

ToxicPaddy

Guys credit where credit is due, Rabies has done his homework and he has decided that a certain type and look of clientèle is what he's looking for and they will only get in, not everyone agrees with it but its working for him and his business..

In Ireland a lot of publicans havent done their homework and thats the problem. A perfect example is that publican who turned off the TV and drove basically all his customers out the door as he couldnt see past his nose that his customers were there to watch football and have a few pints.. he will suffer in the long run.

Maybe it might be worth getting some people with common sense to go into a pub, observe their "typical" customer, see what they drink, how much they drink, what they wear etc and then go from there. A bit of research goes a long way, if they know what works, get the doormen, the barstaff and everyone else working together, they might be able to improve their business..

Like how many other businesses do market research, customer satisfaction surveys and the like? They try and see what works and do it.. Pubs in Ireland could learn a lot from it. They dont seem to realise that Irish people are travelling and experiencing other cultures and service and prices in other countries and seeing just how much they are being ripped off..

Only time will tell and I think we will see a huge amount of bars going out of business in the new year and the publicans might finally see the light.. though I doubt it..

Tox

Mad_Max

Mad_Max wrote: »

I know that pub very well. That means they didn't want you in there. Standard procedure on all busy nights.

The laurels? sure that place is only a ****hole for ****heads.
make ye laugh wouldnt it?

Capt'n Midnight

Degag wrote: »

but the publican can only expect to make 17c profit on an average price per pint of €4.

The last time excise duty on beer was increased was 1994 since then it has either stayed the same or gone down.

http://www.finfacts.ie/Private/bestprice/guinnessindex.htm
in 1994 a average pint cost €2.34

TBH the 17c sounds like the way the music industry work out their profits, dodgy accounting. Publicans have huge control over their costs, changing the decor every few years is a obvious one.


IMHO overheads like SKY and Music seem to be there to stop people talking so they drink more , and if the LVA can't organise a campaign against SKY prices ...

Dravokivich

redorblack wrote: »

Last night (Stephens night) after finishing work tried to go into Laurels in Clondalkin, we were met by 3 bouncers at the door and were refused entry at 9pm because we were told it was ticket only, said fair enough plenty of other places, no problem so went across the road to Quinlans and told they were closed, they clearly werent.

Odd... I got into Quinlans after 10.

Maybe it was just regulars they were letting in?

Tends to be what happens in most places around Christmas / New Years.

Anyhow, you didnt miss much, was out of there within an hour.

- Drav!

Jeanious

Rabies wrote: »

spotted drinking around the corner

Well heaven forfend that someone might want to drink a bit on the cheap before payin a tenner in and 6 quid a pint! Every student ive ever know has drunk on the streets and whatnot before headin into a club, and most are not troublemakers or scum or anything of the sort.

Now don't take anything im sayin personally, cos it's aimed at publicans/niteclub owners in general, but jaysus the state of the whole situation is appalling.

You say you have a VIP area with bouncers that keep a good ratio of girl/boys...why? So that every youngfella in the area will come thinkin the place is great for women, only to be told "not tonight son" because lettin them in would upset the male/female ratio? Then Johnny Scumbag comes in with his slacks/waistcoat combo, sh1tty mohawk and diamond earring and gets in no bother because he has nice clothes?

Also, can i recommend to the industry in general: find the fcuking volume control of your sound system!...jesus the sheer loudness in most places is just headwreckin, its entirely possible and very easily done to have the music relatively loud near the dancefloor, and audible, but much quieter in other places.

By the way, before anyone jumps to any conclusions im not and never was a big club-goer, and rarely if ever get refused from places, so i can guarantee i dont have some chip on my shoulder.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Guys credit where credit is due, Rabies has done his homework and he has decided that a certain type and look of clientèle is what he's looking for and they will only get in, not everyone agrees with it but its working for him and his business..

Tox

It's descrimination... simply put.

Attract your clientele another way.

Rabies wrote: »

That should have read old jeans and old t shirt.

Over sized t-shirts. Ya, it can be a problem here. As with people still wearing a shirt and trying to get in, but having a big t-shirt hanging out. You can look at them and know straight away that they're not for here.

Casual is fine, jeans and t shirt. All good. Old and tatty or grubby, no.

I'm one of the few that are honest about how it works. Its the nature of the industry. People are wondering why they're not allowed in, I'm explaining. The odd thing is, some people never experience this.

Ok, judging somebody on their attire to an extent is fair enough. Obviously the track suit bottoms and jerseys are a no go, same with some runners. I used to get refused because of where I was from, I mean, wtf??? It's fcuking sickening to say the least to be judged in an instant by some ugly, scummy looking oaf, who gets off on refusing people entry to a pub/club.

I am interested because I worked in pubs as a barman and bouncer for years... Never ever refused anybody because of their look or out of fear they "might" start trouble. The only rule I came accross which caused a bit of a problem was in a pub, you were not allowed to wear your work clothes in there after a certain time, say 8pm. Which is fair enough.