Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Unicef Confirms 0% Child Malnutrition in Cuba

Options
2456789

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    People are desperate to leave Cuba. I lived in Miami for two years (2004-2006), and there were regular reports of Cubans being caught crossing the Florida Straits. This begs the question, if Castro's Cuba is so great, then why do so many people want to leave?

    I spent half my life in the U.S. (15 yrs), I grew up there. I left shortly after 9/11. Lots of people people left Ireland in the 80s. What does that say about the government? Well, not a lot really. You can't base opinions on the fact that people migrate.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    People romanticize Castro because he has stuck his thumb in the eye of the U.S. government for over 40 years. And although the US has a horrible history in the region, and there have been significant gains in literacy and poverty reduction in Cuba, let's not pretend that the Castro regime is anything but a brutal dictatorship.

    I don't think anyone is romanticizing about anything here. People are claiming Castro is some evil tyrant and his people are so oppressed. I'm simply stating facts that Cuba has grown considerably since the revolution even under such a "brutal dictatorship" and U.S. embargos. Cuba never attacked any other nation. It never tried to invade any other nation and yet it's treated like the one of the greatest threats to western civilization.
    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Finally, I think it's funny (and sad) that so many European progressives are so supportive of the Castro regime, yet protest against human rights violations in China. Overall poverty reduction and development in China has been more significant than anywhere else in the world, and there has certainly been massive repression along the way. Yet China is "bad" and Cuba is "good"? Either they are both bad, or, hey, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlette...

    You can't compare Cuba to China, it's just ridiculous. Cuba has not invaded neighboring countries and killed it's civilians. It hasn't received huge foreign investment for the past few decades. There's just no comparison whatsoever.


  • Options
    #33
    Soldie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Soldie


    sold wrote: »
    Not surprising, Cuba has some of the best medical care in the world, Lots of trained doctors.

    Can you substantiate this? Curiously, this site seems to tell a different story.


  • Options
    #34
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    nesf wrote: »
    You really have no idea what you're talking about here. Seriously.

    So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?


  • Options
    #35
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    nesf wrote: »
    Cuba used to receive huge amounts of money and material aid from the Soviet Union. Much of its infrastructure was built using this giving it a fair headstart over the majority of other developing countries. Cuba is doing pretty well but they didn't do it alone.
    aurelius79 wrote: »
    You could say that about any modern developing country. China receives vast amounts of money from the U.S. and other nations.

    So, it would be fair to say you are referring to the first line here, for you were referring to nesf's post, above.
    aurelius79 wrote: »
    So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?

    Goalposts. Shifted.


  • Options
    #36
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    egan007 wrote: »
    I've been to cuba. no children go hungry - but nobody eats decent food

    I bet Cubans don't throw away tons of food every year either. Good thing I live in a democracy where I can waste as much as I want as long as I can pay for it.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    So China has not received huge amounts (billions) of foreign investment in the past 20-30 years? Seriously?

    If you don't understand the difference between foreign investment building factories in a country and direct aid in the form of money and materials then yes, you don't understand what you're talking about.


    Edit:

    I'll put it in terms that anyone can understand: How many roads did American Multinational companies build and how many factories did the EU set up providing jobs in this country?


  • Options
    #38
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    nesf wrote: »
    If you don't understand the difference between foreign investment building factories in a country and direct aid in the form of money and materials then yes, you don't understand what you're talking about.

    China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?


  • Options
    #39
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?

    What does the 'G' stand for in Non-G-Organisation, again?

    :confused:


  • Options
    #40
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    China receives private foreign investment and direct international aid from the UN and other agencies (many NGOs). What was the point again?

    You're counting both as the same, which they are very much not and do you imagine that China got more per head than the Soviet Union gave Cuba? Remember that when the Soviet Union was in existence it was very generous to countries that adopted communism, except perhaps China.


  • Options
    #41
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is romanticizing about anything here. People are claiming Castro is some evil tyrant and his people are so oppressed. I'm simply stating facts that Cuba has grown considerably since the revolution even under such a "brutal dictatorship" and U.S. embargos. Cuba never attacked any other nation. It never tried to invade any other nation and yet it's treated like the one of the greatest threats to western civilization.

    You can't compare Cuba to China, it's just ridiculous. Cuba has not invaded neighboring countries and killed it's civilians. It hasn't received huge foreign investment for the past few decades. There's just no comparison whatsoever.

    So if you are not willing to concede that Cuba is a dictatorship, then we can at least agree that they are a regime that severely curtails the freedom of their citizens. But many people seem to justify this because they have good social development indicators. If that is all that matters - it wipes the slate of the government clean, so to speak - then yes we can lump China and Cuba together as developing countries that have curtailed individual freedoms to achieve a greater social good: economic and social development, within the context of a single-party state.

    If you still do not think the comparison to China is appropriate, then lets use an example that is closer to home - Chile. Would you think the Pinochet regime was justified? A lot of people were killed in the transition period, and massive repression was necessary to enact economic reforms, but today they are much better off, both in terms of economic growth and an overall reduction in severe poverty. Do the ends justify the means? To me, there is nothing for a Castro sympathizer to say but yes - and arguably Chile has made much more economic and social progress since the 1960s than Cuba.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #43
    Eliot Rosewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    The U.S. has executed 1188 people since 1976, 52 executed just this year. Any data as to why people were executed in Cuba, or is the act of state sanctioned execution enough to label Castro's administration a "reign of terror".

    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    You've perverted the importance of the numbers for political gain. The population of the US is 26.9 times the population of Cuba*. That means that the execution rate in Cuba would have to be under 44 (1188/26.9) people since 1976 for it to be a safer country than the US.

    Would I be right in assuming that more than 44 people have been killed in Cuba in the past 33 years?

    Would I also be right in assuming that many of these people were not given a fair trial and due process?

    *source: Wiki; couldnt be bothered hitting the CIA factbook at 1 am in the morning.


  • Options
    #44
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    As opposed to the U.S.-backed Batista dictatorship which Castro helped overthrow? By the way, even JFK was a fan of Fidel.

    "I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."
    -JFK interview with Jean Daniel 24, 10, 1963

    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I love the basic level of respect I get when visiting this forum. Anyway, that is one random person's opinion on calculating Cuba's GDP, what's that got to do with anything?
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Damn, you got me with that one picture of a bed. Here's another picture of a bed, possibly a bed in Cuba. It doesn't look too bad to me. You could even compare these beds to the ones in some Irish psychiatric hospitals.
    townhall_cubanhosp1.jpg
    donegalfella wrote: »
    Again, you might want to read more about Cuban food rationing.

    That's one American woman's experiment with Cuban diet. Did you read where she wouldn't eat half of the diet because she was worried about getting fat?

    "Limited in what they can eat, Cubans spend much time thinking about their next meal. I found myself obsessing about food as well. Would I have enough money at the end of the month to buy vegetables? Would all those potatoes make me fat?"

    Hilarious. The first sentence doesn't even make sense.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I think you're clutching at straws here. This is one picture of the outside of a house. It's not even run down. All it needs is a lick of paint and it'll be good as new.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    What's that? Could be a picture of a family outing gone wrong for all I know.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Estimated by who? My point was that any real numbers are just obscured by these random figures from several different sources. What is the source for the number 70,000? Is it backed up by any independent verification? The fact is that most of the people here condemning Castro have no real evidence of any serious breaches of human rights. It's almost all hearsay. All you can do is voice your opinion and offer some questionable sources.


  • Options
    #45
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    What lies? If you're going to call me a liar you better have some evidence to back up that claim. What I posted was the truth. Don't believe me? Go look it up and correct me.
    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    You've perverted the importance of the numbers for political gain. The population of the US is 26.9 times the population of Cuba*. That means that the execution rate in Cuba would have to be under 44 (1188/26.9) people since 1976 for it to be a safer country than the US.

    What planet are you on? I'm not Fidel Castro! Why on earth would I feel the need to pervert anything for political gain? I'm not a politician. Someone stated that the Castro administration was a regime of terror or some such nonsense because he executed and imprisoned people. My point was that the U.S. does the exact same thing.
    Eliot Rosewater wrote: »
    Would I be right in assuming that more than 44 people have been killed in Cuba in the past 33 years?

    Would I also be right in assuming that many of these people were not given a fair trial and due process?

    I wouldn't assume anything if I were you. That's the problem with a lot of people. Instead of assuming something, why not just go look it up and get the facts before you go forming opinions.

    Would I be right in assuming you're on the internet? Why not look these things up and get back to me when you have some factual evidence.


  • Options
    #46
    Rossibaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Rossibaby


    dsmythy wrote: »
    As the boatloads of people desperate for Florida attest to.

    Oh sweet Jesus. Yes a number of Cubans wish to live in the US, and do you know why? The US offers Cubans aslyum seeker status, they guarantee them a home if they come and a job...now tell me this, if they offered something similar to a capitalist country in the region say haiti, or mexico, I think you would find a few more people running for the US than do from Cuba:rolleyes:

    And to the poster who estimated Castros personal wealth at 900 million dollars, LOL just LOL


  • Options
    #47
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    Someone should ask Obama why he maintains the embargo


  • Options
    #48
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    This thread is ****ing terrible.


  • Options
    #49
    Shadow47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Shadow47


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    Well it seems many,many countries disagree with you.

    Right because so many democratic countries support socialist dictatorships....pfffff

    But you still got Venezuela, Ecuador and maybe Bolivia to support Castro :rolleyes:
    Wow Castro killed thousands, you do know he was involved in a revolution against a US puppet dictator?
    Batista was not an US puppet dictator, though he was a dictator but that is not and excuse for the torture, imprisonment or murder of thousands of innocent civilians because of their "ideological diversity" as Guevara so eloquently put it.
    Castro and the Cuban revolution has greatly ameliorated the lot of normal Cubans, who previously faced massive hardship and deprivation.
    This is just absurd, look at the UNESCO figures and you will see that the cuban people were A LOT better before the socialist dictatorship.
    Cuba also does sterling work with regard to offering aid to other developing countries, specifically the export of doctors. Castro's and the revolution's achievements have been immense and perhaps this is why he is so well regarded by the GA of the UN.

    If only that aid would be possible without the brutalization of the cuban people by their corrupt and illegitimate leaders.


  • Options
    #50
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    Someone should also ask Bill Clinton why he extended the embargo to foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies in 1999.


  • Options
    #51
    Shadow47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Shadow47


    Rossibaby wrote: »
    Oh sweet Jesus. Yes a number of Cubans wish to live in the US, and do you know why? The US offers Cubans aslyum seeker status, they guarantee them a home if they come and a job...now tell me this, if they offered something similar to a capitalist country in the region say haiti, or mexico, I think you would find a few more people running for the US than do from Cuba

    Would you prefer that after they reach US soil they be deported back to Cuba to face a firing squad or imprisonment as a political prisoner? :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Shadow47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Shadow47


    aurelius79 wrote: »
    As opposed to the U.S.-backed Batista dictatorship which Castro helped overthrow? By the way, even JFK was a fan of Fidel.

    "I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."
    -JFK interview with Jean Daniel 24, 10, 1963

    Oh my God thats bull****!
    To be against the dictatorship of Batista is not equal to support a socialist dictator or his inhumane regime :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #53
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Shadow47 wrote: »
    Oh my God thats bull****!
    To be against the dictatorship of Batista is not equal to support a socialist dictator or his inhumane regime :rolleyes:

    You can almost hear the argument brewing of "At least he's not as bad as Pol Pot!".


  • Options
    #54
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #55
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #56
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I can hear the goalposts zipping around already, DF.


  • Options
    #57
    aurelius79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 395 ✭✭aurelius79


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I never denied human rights abuses in Cuba. I'm just not so hypocritical as to focus on them when many other developed nations are guilty of much worse. I'll say it before and I'll say it again, Cuba has done remarkably well considering the obstacles it has faced since the revolution.


  • Options
    #58
    RedPlanet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭RedPlanet


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    You should watch "BBC - The Future of Food", they spend time in Cuba with ordinary folks and also show cuban farming as a model for a low-carbon future.
    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Oh boo hoo. Most of that stuff is happening in Honduras right now but i haven't seen you complaining about it.


  • Options
    #59
    sold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭sold


    Soldie wrote: »
    Can you substantiate this? Curiously, this site seems to tell a different story.

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Health/Cuba_BetterCare_US.html


  • Options
    #60
    Buffy the bitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Buffy the bitch


    I love how people go on about certain countries and yet they've never even been there.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Soo, back to the original point (which, incidentally, is not my dictator is better than yours):

    Unicef Confirms 0% Child Malnutrition in Cuba

    Has this actually been confirmed?


Advertisement