Snow Chains in Ireland?

bryaner

I must say I normally laugh when I hear snow chains winter tires etc,

but I got stuck today in a mates estate, took me a good 40 mins to get

out. :rolleyes:

enquiringminds

In Ireland, the main difficulty is that harsh weather conditions are sporadic.
If harsh weather in Ireland was common, we would be required by law to use winter tyres. These are expensive, so many people don't buy them.

There are undoubtedly times when snowchains are required, even in Ireland. In many rural areas the option to go around, if there is such an option, is often far worse as there won't be much traffic on the alternate road and so the conditions may be worse.
Many people living in rural and/ or mountainous ares might find it useful to have a set of winter tyres for their cars.

So, what the majority of people are looking for, imho, is a solution that will allow them to get about in harsh weather without forking out for winter tyres.
This could be tyre socks, snow chains, wire threaded through the wheels, etc.
Socks and tyres seem to be about the same price, and both give good levels of traction compared to summer tyres, but I don't think either can be driven on normal roads without being damaged.

One problem for many people in urban situations is that the traction of a line of traffic is often only as good as the car with the worst traction. If one car gets stuck, everyone gets stuck.

BostonB

enquiringminds wrote: »

In Ireland, the main difficulty is that harsh weather conditions are sporadic.
If harsh weather in Ireland was common, we would be required by law to use winter tyres. These are expensive, so many people don't buy them. ...

Winter tyres are better than summers, for wet and cold lower than 7 degrees. (approx)

For snow and ice you want snow tyres.

How much of Ireland winter is the former?

enquiringminds

Hi BostonB,

The climate of Ireland is described as mild, moist and variable.
There is pretty good info on the climate here:
http://www.met.ie/climate/climate-of-ireland.asp

The average temperature in Ireland is about 10 degrees C with a max of about 30 degrees and a min of -10 ( that's Dublin Airport data ). It snows about 20 days per year ( not necessarily heavy snow ).

IMO, it is rare for the country to have extended periods of snow such as we have now. We are similar to Scotland, Wales and England in that there is no legal requirement to have winter tyres at any time of year.
My guess is that, if people thought about it, they wouldn't use winter tyres year round because they don't last as long as summer tyres.

If people aren't prepared to buy winter tyres they certainly aren't going to buy snow tyres for a short spell of snowy weather, unless they live up the side of a big hill.

I think that snow chains are a good idea for people who live in hilly and/ or rural areas. They aren't very expensive and can be very useful.

BostonB

I think the country grinding to a halt, and millions being lost in insurance claims, and people not getting to work, might make people rethink that.

They made it illegal to purchase non E-marked tyres for use on Irish roads and its now a NCT test item.

Look at the average daily mean and 6 months of the year our temps are low enough for winter tyres to perform better than summer tyres. 6 months!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Climate

A look at average temperatures over the years suggests that they will dip below the seven-degree mark in five to seven months of the year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/1201/1224284474032.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ncga6UxlHM

Its not just about snow.

I agree with you that most people won't change. But if we keep getting more winters like this, then that might change. Especially its the law changes. Probably make as much difference as speed cameras, maybe?

enquiringminds

BostonB,

The E marking on tyres is a Europe wide requirement just to certify quality of any particular tyre.

The temperature charts could be a little misleading as temperature is measured 24 hours per day and people typically don't drive as much at night, when it's likely to be coldest.

That being said it appears to me that drivers would likely get good performance from winter tyres from mid October to the start of April. It appears that winter tyres perform better than Summer tyres once the temperature drops below 7 degrees and particularly in wet, icy or snowy conditions.

There would be a cost implication for changing tyres. That would involve the initial outlay of the winter tyres. It may also possibly involve the purchase of new wheels. An option would be to put the winter tyres on the existing rims ( maybe 10 euro per wheel ? ). The benefits would be the improved control of the car in winter and bear in mind that the Summer tyres won't wear out when they are being stored. I noticed in the IT article that BMW drivers can get a set of winter tyres for 580 euro including rims. That seems like good value.

I doubt that the law will change in respect of the use of winter tyres; the outlay is most likely unjustified in terms of the benefits in road safety.

Even with winter tyres there may be occasions that snow chains would be useful. From what I've read, snow chains do not suit all cars but should be mounted on all four wheels if to be used at all.

BostonB

The point is things change.

Is the outlay justified in missing a few days at work. It probably is.

enquiringminds

BostonB,

I find it hard to respond to that, as I prefer to write posts that are general in nature.

If a certain person has no option but to drive to work and not having winter tyres precludes them going to work then it could be well be argued that they are worthwhile if that person loses days off work.

The cost of the tyres depends on many factors - new or part worn, size of tyre, cost to change them, the cost of the wheels, etc. BMW offered them for 580, which might be used as a rough benchmark for new tyres and wheels. Roughly speaking, I'd guess that the price of changing the tyres/ wheels over plus the price of the wheels ( if relevant ) and some allowance for the additional outlay on the winter tyres should be included in a calculation, should one be performed.

My feeling is that the climate could be changing, with an increasing amount of bad weather. It seems to me that we've had an unusually cold and snowy winters lately.

well really

Anyone who says the answer to driving on snow and ice is to learn to drive more slowly clearly hasn't done much driving on snow and ice.

KylieWyley

Getting back on topic...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/1201/1224284474032.html

Unless we experience a sustained period of icy, snowy conditions, it’s unlikely that the average Irish driver will fork out on extra tyres. It’s just too expensive for a relatively intangible gain. Bridgestone doesn’t offer full winter tyres in Ireland, instead suggesting that its all-weather tyres are better suited to our climate – and less of a compromise all year round. However, even they attract a 10 per cent premium.

Cheaper, temporary alternatives do exist. Snow chains are an option for use in deep snow. Bear in mind though, that while there are no laws directly relating to fitting snow chains, you can be fined for using anything that may damage the road, so they should be used selectively. The advent of snow “socks” offers a relatively low-cost option too, though they’re best suited to low-speed driving under 50km/h.

enquiringminds

KylieWyley wrote: »

Getting back on topic...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/1201/1224284474032.html

not sure what you're on about there KW; ths article was already linked earlier.

My opinion is that, in an ideal world, people would use winter tyres in winter and have a set of snow chains in the boot in case it gets really hairy.

KylieWyley

My bad, didn't realise.

Yes, that would be ideal. A backup to get out yourself out of extra tough situations. However, I don't think people should generally be driving around everywhere with chains attached as some seem to be suggesting.

Tom Slick

well really wrote: »

Anyone who says the answer to driving on snow and ice is to learn to drive more slowly clearly hasn't done much driving on snow and ice.

Not uphill anyway . . .

Dan Jaman

KylieWyley wrote: »

My bad, didn't realise.

Yes, that would be ideal. A backup to get out yourself out of extra tough situations. However, I don't think people should generally be driving around everywhere with chains attached as some seem to be suggesting.

Nobody ever suggested that.

Mountainsandh

MarkoC wrote: »

Do they drive all day long with them on any road ?
Noone says they dont work, they do, but .... They not for every day use for avergae roads in these weather conditions, fact.
Chains are only for mountains wheres over 3 inch icey snow, even then proper winter tyres will do the job, they are devenetly not for half inch ice road conditions. QUOTE]

I live up a hill in a remote area, and have about 4 tough miles to go to the main road to go to work.
This year I asked my mum to get me a pair of snow chains from France for my trusted Toyota Corolla, for all of 30 euros or so, and Bob's your uncle.
They're brilliant, and really once you've sussed out how to fit them on, take minutes to put them on and off. (took me 4 minutes yesterday to fit them on, and that's having to detangle them after shoving them entangled into the boot same morning ). I'm female btw .
I've been a sensation around our parts, with all the local farmers thinking I was in trouble and stopping to help, only to find I was fine, just tending to the snow chains.
Our road has clear patches in parts, other than that, it's various degrees of icing over, and various thickness-es of snow.
I simply haven't gone over 20km/h with the chains on, and so far so good. It enables me to go up icy/glassy hills, or down them, and through snowy patches without getting stuck.
I don't think too much damage can be done to the roads since you can't drive too fast with them on dry road anyway, or they will simply break.
They are a life saver in my situation, you don't quite feel as isolated knowing you have the snow chains to get out in case of an emergency.

I only have a pair for the front, and have found that if the snow is too deep and fresh, the back wheels do tend to get clogged up with packed snow, so I think I will get a pair for the back too in case of thicker snow.
As said I'm an old banger Toyota Corolla driving woman, and have had no problem driving with them on, it's fine, it's not speed I'm after, it's simply getting through/down the hill. I wish people around here would all get them, at least I wouldn't be worried they'll slap into me when they get out and about, some are just totally inconsiderate.

edit : forgot to say, I stick them on down the hill in the evenings to go up, and they're ready to go down the next morning. Then I have to stop down the road when I get to the dryer main road to take them off. Bit of a pain but hey, they enable me to get out to work/shop, and better than risking your life/car without them.

anronmor

Does anyone know if they will damage alloy wheels?
I'm in Europe at the moment and thinking of picking up a set of chains for home, only the look like the might scratch alloys?

Mountainsandh

It's hard to say, look at my pic to see how they "sit" on the wheel... the bits of chains on the circular part of the wheel are not exactly "flush" to the metal, but they are against it allright. Don't think they move much while driving, and as I said, they're not exactly rubbing, but cannot say for sure, it would depend on the wheels too I suppose.
In case you're in France, alloy wheel is : la jante. (jaunt)

154151_1469670270486_1495487463_30983687_4177405_n[1] by mountainsandheather, on Flickr

recedite

They normally only touch the rubber except maybe for the outer of the rim ,because the tyre bulges out more than the wheel. Check you are getting the correct size for the tyres.

Mountainsandh

Yes, I'd say that's right, except maybe if you have alloys with a bulge, don't know if alloys like that might bulge out a bit, then the chains that are yellow on my pic, and the red one, might rub a bit. Nothing much though, still well worth it if it saves your car from skidding into the ditch/a wall.

bladebrew

i was just outside helping push cars up a hill, after about an inch of snow, everyone was taking it handy then i saw an avensis taxi flying up the hill not a problem because he had chains on, i was fairly impressed,

it was suprising which cars were struggling, rwd transits appear to be a disaster, most big cars had trouble along with a lot of jeeps,

i saw a heap of fiestas and not one of them had a problem,
im not sure would chains be worth it in this country though, this is the worst snow i have seen in years,

Mountainsandh

I'd say they're the kind of thing you might just pick up if you go on holidays to France/Europe, call into a Norauto place, maybe place an order in advance (by email) to be sure they'll have them in stock, they're pretty cheap over there, 30/40e for a pair or thereabouts (mine were got cheaper because I know someone who sells them ).

Look, I'm so relieved to have the chains now, it makes for much more relaxed driving, allows me to get to work, and simply to get out, and not be putting myself/kids too much at risk. If it also saves my car from banging into a roadside wall/fence or worse, well then, that was a cheap expense to pay. As I said I also used them on the glassy ice, and although on the slightly melting wet on top glassy ice they did skid slightly, I still was able to stop, where without them I had skidded mercilessly before. They also broke the ice on my road every time I passed, which helped the melting in the end (very little passage!).

Guy:Incognito

bladebrew wrote: »

i was just outside helping push cars up a hill, after about an inch of snow, everyone was taking it handy then i saw an avensis taxi flying up the hill not a problem because he had chains on, i was fairly impressed,
,

Just dont be on here in a few months complaining about paying "road tax" and the bloody council letting the roads go to crap.

Biglad

Snow chains are designed for snow, they should not be used on uncovered or even partially covered roads as they will both damage your car and the road especially when driven at speed. Snow chains are there to get grip on snow, either loose or compacted, and they will help you out on ice (with much care and very low speeds). If you plan to travel any distance with chains on you should check them regularly for position on the wheel etc. Snow chains will damage you alloys unless you are very very careful or buy decent ones that cost money. Also make sure that all loose bits of chain etc used for fitting are tucked away so they can't come loose and start flapping around cleaning the paint of your wheel arches. If you carry chains with you also carry a pair of working gloves, bit of cardboard to kneel down on and maybe a cable tie or two if you have to travel a long distance with them on. If you have steel wheels with hubcaps, remove the hubcaps before you fit the chains. Cheap chains can be a pain to fit, more expensive chains often have better quick-fit systems.
I have driven many miles with snow chains in both Austria and France, all the above is from experience. Most of all, drive safe, chains are only an aide to get you there safe, not fast,

Mountainsandh

Stekelly wrote: »

Just dont be on here in a few months complaining about paying "road tax" and the bloody council letting the roads go to crap.

You should see the state of the roads in my area, not much of a starting point to judge how much or how little chains may damage them.
I can tell you when you hear/feel the rumble on a dry patch it's pretty obvious you're not going to push it above 20km/h, under that there is no damage to either car or road. If anything is going to break that'll be the chains first.

lor2ie

At the start of this thread I was surprised at the ignorance of some of the posters laughing at the idea of using snow chains or any device to help drive in dreadful conditions.

Well done Mountainsandh in making it clear to them that of course they are times we have to use such items as snow chains etc. I myself purchased snow socks and they were a God send. Even tho I live in the west in the last 2 years I've had to leave my car about a mile from my home to walk in the dark and icy dangerous roads with no grit to be seen for one end of the day to the next.
My house is also up a steep incline which meant even if i got to my drive I still had to leave my car at the end of a 500meter drive and walk up carrying shopping or even water when it was frozen for 6 days etc. It was a nightmare, even more so with young children in tow. This time I was more prepared and purchased the Weiss snow socks. They might be annoying and a pain to get off and on but the difference it has made to getting in and out of the house is unbelievable. And we had well over a 8 inches of snow here, now frozen on top of it with temperatures of -10 and more.. /so I really think its time we grew up in Ireland and realize the climates are changing so we really should be more prepared.

on another note, anyone know how to stop drum gas from freezing, miss my morning fry up..too cold to go out with a blow heater then. Got foam around the pipes and cap and a duvet around the whole lot with a large plastic bag and its still freezing, even in the middle of using it!!!! sorry if off topic..

Biglad

lor2ie wrote: »

At the start of this thread I was surprised at the ignorance of some of the posters laughing at the idea of using snow chains or any device to help drive in dreadful conditions.

Well done Mountainsandh in making it clear to them that of course they are times we have to use such items as snow chains etc. I myself purchased snow socks and they were a God send. Even tho I live in the west in the last 2 years I've had to leave my car about a mile from my home to walk in the dark and icy dangerous roads with no grit to be seen for one end of the day to the next.
My house is also up a steep incline which meant even if i got to my drive I still had to leave my car at the end of a 500meter drive and walk up carrying shopping or even water when it was frozen for 6 days etc. It was a nightmare, even more so with young children in tow. This time I was more prepared and purchased the Weiss snow socks. They might be annoying and a pain to get off and on but the difference it has made to getting in and out of the house is unbelievable. And we had well over a 8 inches of snow here, now frozen on top of it with temperatures of -10 and more.. /so I really think its time we grew up in Ireland and realize the climates are changing so we really should be more prepared.

on another note, anyone know how to stop drum gas from freezing, miss my morning fry up..too cold to go out with a blow heater then. Got foam around the pipes and cap and a duvet around the whole lot with a large plastic bag and its still freezing, even in the middle of using it!!!! sorry if off topic..

I know it's off topic but what if you kept a second tank indoors during the day and put it out when you need it for daytime use and rotate the two?
You are describing the appropriate use of snow socks in my opinion, they get you out of a "hole", don't think they were designed to commute to work on unless the commute takes place on snow covered roads only.

lor2ie

thanks for reply...think the 2nd tank be frozen again by time i finish cooking..lol... as to the snow socks...

Naturally you do not "need" them on a clear or gritted road, that is the whole point. If you live off any main road its not going to be gritted so you can not get to work. The socks get you to the main road, remove them, toss them into the boot and your on your way. The same with snow chains, thats the convenience of them.

ootbitb

lor2ie wrote: »

thanks for reply...think the 2nd tank be frozen again by time i finish cooking..lol... as to the snow socks...

Naturally you do not "need" them on a clear or gritted road, that is the whole point. If you live off any main road its not going to be gritted so you can not get to work. The socks get you to the main road, remove them, toss them into the boot and your on your way. The same with snow chains, thats the convenience of them.

we have the same problem with the gas. usually use the electric kettle or microwave.

I think you should leave a small air gap when you are covering the regulator.Never found it necessary to wrap the bottle as the liquid inside won't freeze.

lor2ie

it freezes at about -0.5°, as in turns from a gas to a liquid, which whilst still fammable won't go up the pipe....

apparently the bottle takes the heat from the air around it to turn the liquid in to gas. It is therefore of no help to wrap the bottle as that does not provide any heat (unless you wrap it in an electric blanket). Being told to put it into an insulated box outside the back door with a 40 or 60 watt light bulb inside. This should provides sufficient heat to prevent the bottles from 'freezing' when using it to cook.

sorry if off topic again.. did some research on the subject...lol..