Is Murgha child abuse?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kosseegan wrote: »

You might be getting into child abuse there as the knees become marked after about 5 minutes. have you considered murgha?

What is it with you and barbaric insane punishments? You want teenagers caned "on their bottoms" according to a different thread and now you want this "Murgha" ****?

Seriosuly, cards on the table: do you get off on this kinda stuff?

Hellrazer

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What is it with you and barbaric insane punishments? You want teenagers caned "on their bottoms" according to a different thread and now you want this "Murgha" ****?
Seriosuly, cards on the table: do you get off on this kinda stuff?

Agreed 100%.Thats just unbelievable that someone can cause harm to their own child in a manner like that.

We just withdraw their luxuries--TV,no sweets,extra homework,mobile phone etc.

anathea

Kosseegan wrote: »

You might be getting into child abuse there as the knees become marked after about 5 minutes. have you considered murgha?

Haven't tried it. It looks interesting.

straricco

browndress wrote: »

I have a friend who uses this punishment on her children, ages 8 to 15. They live abroad. She calls it telling them to "make murgha". I wonder if this punishment is considered child abuse in Ireland. I have been looking at alternative punishments for my daughters who are 9 and 11. They are beginning, particularly the older one, to become defiant.

Sounds degrading to me to be honest. And to degrade anyone never mind a child doesn't change their behaviour, look at statistics of reoffending for people coming out of Mountjoy.

Making a mockery of your child will eventually turn them against you when they are old enough to think things out for themselves.

straricco

anathea wrote: »

There are of course good punishments. I find kneeling on rice, with the knees bare and holding the bible in outstretched arms, a very good punishment. My daughter does not want to repeat her misbehaviour after it.

Are you for real? If yes, then I think you must be mentally ill, like alot of bible bashing weirdos. God help your child.

Nevyn

While we may find the parenting practices of other to be irrational and abbhorant lets not start with personal abuse.

I think that if a parent has to inflict phyical pain on a child a punishment they are not inventive enough tbh.

Ickle Magoo

I view kids as little people. I'm a person, I make mistakes, I do the wrong thing, I don't expect my husband or my boss to hit me or shame me or make me suffer to teach me a lesson. My children get treated with the same respect, empathy and understanding that I want them to give to the rest of the world.

I had a boss that was an absolutely nightmare, yelling, pushing, threatening, making fun of people and embarrassing them. People started ripping him off, deliberately slacking, there was no motivation to actually have a good work ethic & his business went bust thanks to the high turnover of staff and the low customer service they gave thanks to the low morale - compare that with my last boss who was really kind and understanding, showing patience & trust - long term staff who work hard for her and a thriving business. I don't think parenting is a million miles away from any other kind of people management.

dvpower

browndress wrote: »

I have been looking at alternative punishments for my daughters who are 9 and 11. They are beginning, particularly the older one, to become defiant.

I would have thought that at that age alternative punishments would be a no brainer.

Mum, can you give me a lift to my friends house? "No, you didn't do as you were told earlier."
Mum, can a have a few quid? "No, you didn't do as you were told earlier."
Mum, can I go on the school trip? "No, you didn't do as you were told earlier."
Mum, can I go to the disco? "No, you didn't do as you were told earlier."

If you have to take on new and interesting forms of corporal punishment, then you've gone badly wrong imo.

dvpower

anathea wrote: »

There are of course good punishments. I find kneeling on rice, with the knees bare and holding the bible in outstretched arms, a very good punishment. My daughter does not want to repeat her misbehaviour after it.

Wow.

Are you planning on maintaining a relationship with your daughter past the point where she is old enough to leave home?

nesf

straricco wrote: »

Are you for real? If yes, then I think you must be mentally ill, like alot of bible bashing weirdos. God help your child.

Some parents in this forum, including myself, suffer from mental illness so please don't talk such crap in this forum thanks.

straricco

nesf wrote: »

Some parents in this forum, including myself, suffer from mental illness so please don't talk such crap in this forum thanks.

Im sorry if you don't like my opinion, but my opinion is what it is, and thats what the forum is for. And as for my mentally ill comment, I have 1st hand experience of looking after someone who was mentally ill so did not mean any offence to you. But in saying that, abusing a child is not the action of a sane person.

themysteriouson

Maxton Helpful Sandalwood wrote: »

Nice to see that parents are actively seeking to find new and innovative ways to PUNISH their children. Maybe you should question yourselves as parents and maybe educate yourself a little before becomming parents.

Punishment IS the worst thing you can do, your children will never be "normal" if you are to punish them, be it mental or physical. It's extremely negative and does more harm than good.

Do some research into possitive reinforcement, be warned though, this actually requires you to have something of a brain, some effort and determination. Since punishment is so much easier, I can't see many people dropping it any time soon.

If you are going to force your child to hold a position that causes pain, more like a form of torture than anything else, then you are not fit to raise a child, regardless of what you think. Very very bad parent...

Although most of us would indeed cringe at the thought of that kind of punishment unfortunately you cannot preech to someone how to raise their child. You can only give helpful suggestions.
On the earlier statement that you made about people who discipline their children to be brainless i have one question are: Are you a parent??

Grounding and removing privileges from children are perfectly acceptable means of discipline in my opinion. If you dont let them know that bad actions have conseqences how will they learn?

Deliverance

I deny my child a bedtime story out of two stories that she is allowed. It is enough because she gains pleasure and interaction from two stories. In 'extreme' circumstances of misbehaviour she gets no stories and goes to bed thinking about her actions for the day.

The murgha thing? That is akin to corporal punishment i.e. pain. In Ireland corporal punishment is banned and rightfully so.

Oldfool

Deliverance wrote: »

The murgha thing? That is akin to corporal punishment i.e. pain. In Ireland corporal punishment is banned and rightfully so.

Corporal Punishment is not banned in Ireland and rightly so. the only exception is corporal punishment by teachers.

eviltwin

I think if you have to resort to any kind of physical abuse to discipline a child you've lost the battle.

I've never used any kind of physical punishment because I have never had to and its not that my child is an angel - far from it - but I would never in a million years raise a hand to her. There are other ways to teach kids right from wrong and personally I think if more people put the effort in to actually teach their kids rather than try and deal with the aftermath of "bad" behaviour we wouldnt need half as much discipline as we seem to use

I was smacked as a child. My parents weren't abusive and we only got smacked when we acted up ( in their eyes, half the time we just made mistakes )

Unfortunatley my father once hit me so hard I fell backwards and split my head open on the corner of a table which ended up in me being rushed to hospital. We were never hit again.

Deliverance

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I view kids as little people. I'm a person, I make mistakes, I do the wrong thing, I don't expect my husband or my boss to hit me or shame me or make me suffer to teach me a lesson. My children get treated with the same respect, empathy and understanding that I want them to give to the rest of the world.

I had a boss that was an absolutely nightmare, yelling, pushing, threatening, making fun of people and embarrassing them. People started ripping him off, deliberately slacking, there was no motivation to actually have a good work ethic & his business went bust thanks to the high turnover of staff and the low customer service they gave thanks to the low morale - compare that with my last boss who was really kind and understanding, showing patience & trust - long term staff who work hard for her and a thriving business. I don't think parenting is a million miles away from any other kind of people management.

That is exactly the same philosophy that I have. Absolutely spot on. My own child is v.well behaved because she has the respect of her parents albeit seperated. We both think the same way and the result is amazing with regard to our child. We have an inquisitive child who loves to learn, is v.happy and never recieved a single painful physical punishment in all her 4yrs.

Also to add to the above post and further qualify the point... Both myself and my ex worked in places where we both gained charge (supervisory, training positions etc) and treated the employees with the same mantra /attitude, i.e. a hard work working ethic and respect for others and as a result were successful as such in our own areas via the respect from those we were responsible for.

I can draw on excellent references from previous employers as can my ex in her own field as a result.

The best reference at the end of it all for me is that, when my daughter grows up to be a woman and looks back on how her parents put her first, answered all her questions, exposed her to life in the best way possible via excercise, dance classes, music etc. Because that is simply what being responsible for another person is about (whether they are kids or adults).

Authority is a position of hard work and responsibility. Sometimes it seems like a thankless task. But if it is done right with understanding of the individuals involved then you get damned good results. This as Ickle said, is akin to adults as much as it is towards kids, kids in my view are little people.

I'm glad to see someone thinking the same way on this thread.

we'llallhavetea_old

i'm voting no for the "murgha" punishment.
i just can't understand how anyone would cause physical pain to a defenseless child, there are plenty of other ways to discipline children and they have been discussed in this thread. use them instead!

Kosseegan

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What is it with you and barbaric insane punishments? You want teenagers caned "on their bottoms" according to a different thread and now you want this "Murgha" ****?

Seriosuly, cards on the table: do you get off on this kinda stuff?

In my country murgha is a commonly imposed punishment. Always it is backed up with the cane for repeat or more serious wrondoing. There are no rowdy drunken teenagers in my country and children do not give cheek to parents or teachers. Irish parents have forgotten how to punish and now may not be allowed to.

Hellrazer

Kosseegan wrote: »

In my country

You are not in your country now and over here the majority of people would call this practice child abuse.

~me~

Kosseegan wrote: »

In my country murgha is a commonly imposed punishment. Always it is backed up with the cane for repeat or more serious wrondoing. There are no rowdy drunken teenagers in my country and children do not give cheek to parents or teachers. Irish parents have forgotten how to punish and now may not be allowed to.

well being honest with you, rowdy teenagers is more than likely due to a lack of respect on behalf of the teenagers, for society and their parents. i somehow think this lack of respect is more likely to be in retalliation to the lack of respect their parents showed them by punishing them in cruel ways or any other severe (to put it mildly) parenting techniques than to parents who always talked openly to their children about their wrongdoings and gave them a suitable punishment which allowed them to think about why they're being punished instead of how much the punishment hurts them.

i also think that its a lack of parenting at all that leads to children being "bold" or whatever you want to call it. the majority of rowdy teenagers as you put it, are from families that just dont give a toss about the kids. they let them wander round the streets at all hours asking random people to buy them smokes or drink. this wouldn't happen if the parents were discussing issues and punishing their children in a suitable manner because at least then the parent is actually facing their responsibility as a parent and not pretending it doesnt exist. it doesnt matter how "mild" you think the punishment is, as long as the parent is doing something to make the child think about their actions (and not the pain of their punishment) then i think they're doing their best, which is all any parent can do really.

my two cents!

di11on

Wow.

The language we use reveals so much. Like other posters have said, I find it very sad that a post exists where somone is looking for an innovative way to inflict pain on their own children because they are not behaving the way they'd like.

Such a closed minded approach. They only way to influence your child's behaviour is by inflicting pain (emotional and/or physical).

Take a step back... what are you really trying to achieve? Do you want your child to behave in a way that convenient for you... or, are you, out of love, trying to teach and prepare your child for life as an adult?

If you really had your child's interests at heart, I believe you would be trying to teach rather than punish. You need a positive and constructive relationship with your child to do this. Giving your child 50 lashes is going to undermine this process completely.

Ickle Magoo

Kosseegan wrote: »

In my country murgha is a commonly imposed punishment. Always it is backed up with the cane for repeat or more serious wrondoing. There are no rowdy drunken teenagers in my country and children do not give cheek to parents or teachers. Irish parents have forgotten how to punish and now may not be allowed to.

There is a difference between punishment and cruelty. All countries have their own issue, to take the moral high ground based on child cruelty levels is hardly the ideal.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kosseegan wrote: »

In my country murgha is a commonly imposed punishment. Always it is backed up with the cane for repeat or more serious wrondoing. There are no rowdy drunken teenagers in my country and children do not give cheek to parents or teachers. Irish parents have forgotten how to punish and now may not be allowed to.

I'm still leaning towards a fetish, to be honest. And people who are scared are not nessecarily those who respect you. Case in point, the late Saddam Hussein.

Out of interest, where, exactly, is your country; and does it have equal rights for all genders, all religions and all nationalities?

Hellraiser wrote:

You are not in your country now and over here the majority of people would call this practice child abuse.

Not really an issue, as there are people in this one who discimpline their kids in a way others would believe is abusive.

Hellrazer

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Not really an issue, as there are people in this one who discimpline their kids in a way others would believe is abusive.

Have to disagree.As the op points out its common practice in their country.

That may be so but the OP is not in their country now and over here while we may have disciplines that the OP may not agree with those disciplines are not as bad as what the OP suggests is common practice in their country.

Personally I`d love to see a legal view on it--Id imagine Murgha would be classed as child physical abuse and or cruelty by any child protection agency over here.


edit/Just been reading about this Murgha punishment and there are many child protection agencies all over the world that want it banned./edit

anathea

dvpower wrote: »

Wow.

Are you planning on maintaining a relationship with your daughter past the point where she is old enough to leave home?

I have a very good relationship with my daughter. She knows that she has done wrong and must be punished. My mother pandied me as a punishment for minor wrongs and put a note in the punishment book for my father to deal with more serios wrongs. I had a good and respectful relationship with them till they died

fatmammycat

My father never raised a hand to me in his life, I had a deeply respectful and loving relationship with him until he died. My mother on the other hand, who hit and yelled and acted like a thug when it suited her? Not so much.

Ickle Magoo

Friends of our family loved their corporal punishment, to the point my folks broke contact with them. They favoured a bat. Their son is now serving a life sentence for teaching someone a lesson for disrespecting him - with a cricket bat - coincidence? Me thinks not.

tryingsohard

I hope, browndress, that we can eliminate the use of the cane without having to resort to other forms of corporal punishment! The first question to ask is, what do I hope for my children as adults? My answer is that I want to raise independant, socially aware individuals, who are not conforming through fear of consequences, but who are making informed decisions based on their own ability to maturely assess situations.

These are the adults of the future. For how long have we suffered (globally, politically, in every way) at the hands of people who have never come to terms with their own base desires of greed and violence??

Some day, our children will venture into the wider world without the controlling influence of their parents. If Murgha, or beatings, or any other physical violence, is no longer a threat, and we have not taught them well to listen to their own conscience, and to have REAL respect (not fear!) for themselves and others, they become a risk to themselves and other people.

No Murgha. No Cane. No Belt. NO FEAR! Just faith in our incredible innate human abilities towards understanding and social cooperation.

tryingsohard

anathea wrote: »

I have a very good relationship with my daughter. She knows that she has done wrong and must be punished. My mother pandied me as a punishment for minor wrongs and put a note in the punishment book for my father to deal with more serios wrongs. I had a good and respectful relationship with them till they died

The punishment book ???????

anathea

tryingsohard wrote: »

The punishment book ???????

My mother kept a punishment book. If myself or my sister did anything wrong our mother would put a note in her book. Our father would tell her to put a note in if any of our brothers misbehaved outside of the house. Every night before the roasry the book would be opened. If there was a note about any of us it would be read out. We had to agree that we had done wrong and that we deserved to be punished. We would then have to go and change into our nightshifts with no underwear underneath. Back in the living room a wooden chair would have been placed to one side of the fireplace. If there was more than one being punished there would be a chair for each. We had to stan in front of the chair. We would then be made to lift out our shifts over our knees and kneel on the chair. We would then be told to pray for a just punishment. After the rosary, our father would announce how many blows of lashes we were to get and with which stick or strap. Our mother would then lift the back of the shift up and pin it above our waists. She would then go to the back of the chair and hold our shoulders. After that our father would then read from the book of proverbs. Then we would be given the mortification of the flesh of our backsides. When it was finished we would pray that we would learn from the punishment. We would be sent to bed after that. It did not do us a bit of harm and we always respected our parents.