Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
No calls for Gerry Adams to resign - why not?
Options
Comments
-
Since the publication of the Murphy report there has been a rolling news story about the resignations of bishops mentioned in it. There has been calls for the bishops to resign, speculation that they will resign and reports that they have resigned.
None of the bishops actually committed any deviant acts against children themselves. Rather they were in a position to act to prevent such acts being carried out and failed to do so. For that failing they had to go.
The news has since emerged that the brother of Gerry Adams is a suspected paedophile. For years Liam Adams has been working in areas where he has contact with young people. Gerry Adams has been aware for over a decade that his brother was suspected of abusing his own daughter. Yet there is no evidence to suggest that he did anything about it or did anything to protect children that his brother would come in contact with.
http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2009/dec/27/exposed-gerry-adams-lies-over-brothers-sinn-fein-r/
As with the bishops, Gerry Adams was in a position to prevent acts of abuse being carried out and failed to do anything meaningful.
And yet there is no rolling news coverage calling for his resignation, speculating as to whether he will resign or anthing like it.
Why the silence? Why the double-standard?
The answer is simple. They want to get rid of the church so what better way of doing it.
Its as crazy as saying sports coaching is responsible for a few child abusing underage sports coaches.0 -
There are many other issues to hammer Adams on than this, and while I admire his achievements, I have no time for him or his party.
What's often forgotten is that he played a key role in the peace process, and is an erudite politician.
On this particular matter he has my utmost sympathy.0 -
Deepblue, your take on all this is bewildering. Going by your logic, if the queen of england is really Gerry Adams' boss, why didnt she resign?0
-
Situation A:
Student x is going to school. Father McPriest rapes him. And he rapes 1000's of others. This is definate, and provable. Father McPriests boss, Bishop McColluder, finds out, but purposely does everything he can to hide Father McPriests crimes, protects him by lying, by physically moving him away from furious parents, hinders garda investigations, denies any wrongdoing and is just as guilty of commiting the crime himself, by enabling it to happen. Justice for the victims never enters his mind. He uses the job as a cover, and helps the child rapist escape.
Situation B:
Aine Adams is going about her business. Liam Adams rapes her. This is not discovered revealed until December 2009. Gerry Adams, who is just another ordinary Joe, not Liam Adams' personal rape enabler, hears rumours about his brother. He immediately uses whatever influence he has to bring about justice, and publicly announces that Liam should hand himself over to police.
See the difference?0 -
Anyway, what do you think Gerry Adams should resign from? The bishops resigned from their JOBS because they used their JOBS to hide rapists, whether knowingly (which hasn't been proven yet), or unknowingly through complete and utter incompetance. Resignation is the logical punishment. I'd add jail to that, but I'm not the law.
Gerry didnt hide anything. He did the opposite. Do you think he should resign from leading Sinn Fein? From Stormont? From trying to free Ireland? From being alive? From what exactly?0 -
Advertisement
-
me_right_one wrote: »Situation A:
Student x is going to school. Father McPriest rapes him. And he rapes 1000's of others. This is definate, and provable. Father McPriests boss, Bishop McColluder, finds out, but purposely does everything he can to hide Father McPriests crimes, protects him by lying, by physically moving him away from furious parents, hinders garda investigations, denies any wrongdoing and is just as guilty of commiting the crime himself, by enabling it to happen. Justice for the victims never enters his mind. He uses the job as a cover, and helps the child rapist escape.
Situation B:
Aine Adams is going about her business. Liam Adams rapes her. This is not discovered revealed until December 2009. Gerry Adams, who is just another ordinary Joe, not Liam Adams' personal rape enabler, hears rumours about his brother. He immediately uses whatever influence he has to bring about justice, and publicly announces that Liam should hand himself over to police.
See the difference?
Situation B is not what happened though. The allegations were known to Gerry Adams long before this month. What has happened is that Liam Adams is being processed by the justice system and his victim has the right to confidentiality. Liam Adams failed to attend court so she waived her right to that confidentiality.
Gerry Adams was aware of the allegations against his brother for decades and must have believed them because he moved to reduce his influence in Sinn Fein because of them.
However, in the same period, his brother has held two positions working with children and Gerry Adams has taken no steps to address that.
As for what he should resign from, it's his leadership of Sinn Fein.0 -
me_right_one wrote: »Situation B:
Aine Adams is going about her business. Liam Adams rapes her. This is not discovered revealed until December 2009. Gerry Adams, who is just another ordinary Joe, not Liam Adams' personal rape enabler, hears rumours about his brother. He immediately uses whatever influence he has to bring about justice, and publicly announces that Liam should hand himself over to police.
See the difference?
Your summation of Situation B is factually incorrect. Gerry Adams is not an "ordinary Joe" and he knew about the alleged abuse in 1987 not December 2009.
Actually I linked to the incorrect article in my opening post. I meant to link to this story -> Adams' family values strip him of all moral authority .
Since most people probably won't follow the link I'll add some excerpts below.Gerry Adams' position as Sinn Féin president has been made untenable by revelations of the lies he has told about the way his alleged paedophile brother was protected for 22 years.
It's a horrific story of alleged child abuse, lies, inaction that potentially placed countless Irish children at risk for over two decades, and a cover-up which is still continuing. Sinn Féin member and suspected paedophile Liam Adams was moved around Ireland in the same way that abusing Catholic priests went from parish to parish.
This seems very similar to the manner in which bishops moved suspected paedophile priests around from parish to parish which resulted in more and more children being abused and put at risk.He knew Liam was working with children in various youth projects. Yet despite his public claims, he has as yet produced no evidence to prove that he took action to have Liam removed by his employers.
I'd actually disagree with the conclusion. Enda Kenny and Mark Durkan would not survive. I'm sure many apologists would come forth to excuse Brian Cowen and Peter Robinson.Gerry Adams' disturbingly inadequate response to his brother's suspected abuse makes him politically toxic. He is stripped of all credibility and moral authority. His position as a public figure is untenable. Were he the leader of any other party, he would have resigned by now. Would Brian Cowen, Enda Kenny, Peter Robinson or Mark Durkan survive such damning revelations? Not a chance.
This is where Adams has serious questions to answer. Why do Liam Adam's employers have no record of warnings from Gerry Adams when he says he took action to inform them of the risk posed by his brother?Liam Adams was strongly drawn to jobs that provided access to young people. He constantly sought and, with incredible success, secured them in west Belfast and Dundalk. Questions must be asked as to who provided references for him and who sat on the interview panels.
Gerry Adams said that when he became aware of some of the jobs Liam held, he took action to inform the relevant authorities. He has so far produced no written record of this. Nor has he disclosed the names of those he spoke to in the projects Liam worked for, or of those he spoke to in social services.
None of Liam Adams' four employers has said they were contacted by Gerry Adams. Indeed Brendan Dineen of Clonard Youth Centre said it had reviewed all its documentation "and there is no record whatsoever regarding concerns about Liam Adams during his time of employment at Clonard".0 -
Jerry Adams did not commit a crime, should not be blamed for the sins of his brother
His brother had a wife who was the mother of that girl, had she told her mother about the abuse, and if so, what did she do about it
Fair comment, I would agree but have difficulty in doing so, in light of having an idea of what type of climate Ireland was in when dealing with domestic abuse etc and the walls of silence.
As we are debating, I simply would ask all to be fully balanced and have regard to the environment that we lived in during these events.
It was not ideal that the victim had to suffer in silence for all these years. Whilst it does not justify or defend anyone, we must recongnise that it is only the past 5-10 years that we as an nation or island (depending on political attitude) have or are really beginning to come to terms with the truth of what our society was really like all these years ago.
I ask you all this, how would people like Colm O'Gorman or other victims of clerical abuse or victims of Madeline Laudries and other Institutional abuse or women vctims of domestic abuse have being treated if they had the courage to come public with their problems at the turn of the 1990's or at the time the horrible and evil events occurred? I am sure whilst there would be sympathy, there was also be anger fulled attacks against their integrity from many circulars. Whilst a case like the X case might not be a fine example compared to the ones mention, we all can at least glance through the internet and read the events of that day and attitudes of what was said. Didn't one of the High Court/Supreme Court judges have the insensitivity to question whether X was in real danger of suicide/health? (I will find the source)
One needs to remember Mr Adam's position at this time. Whilst he had influence and control of the Republican movement, according to history of the movement, during this period, he most certainly did not enjoy complete support through out the movement. His parents and uncles, both of whom, came from strong republican belfast backgrounds, their commitment to the republican cause unquestionable and to as much as muddy their reputations would cause huge problems for those responsible.
What do ye think would have occurred if the niece did in fact go public? Do you think she would have been protected and that her reputation would be fully intact? What would it have achieved?
Some of us are not in possession of the full facts of this case. I am not defending nor do I wish to be defending Mr Adams. I simply call for full and balanced debate with regard for all circumstances surrounding the matter.
I would be concerned about his recent comments he has made, whether is or not simply trying to cover up, and the lack of evidence of what he has said. if he is lying about his efforts, instead of coming out to admit that he wrongly did nothing to help, then his honesty goes down the gutter.0 -
If Adams has covered up for his brother Liam and allowed Liam to work with youth knowing his brother was a paedo who abused his own daughter then Gerry has to go as leader of SF. Aine of course couldn't have gone to the RUC about this as she would be regarded a tout and traitor, and probably killed as a result.
However Gerry should have insisted Liam leave the party and worse still should have stopped him from working with children. On the surface Gerry does have a lot to answer for here but we'll have to wait until more comes out before condemning the man.
My sympathies lie totally with the poor daughter who was abused, then couldn't get her justice because of a complex political situation.0 -
me_right_one wrote: »
Gerry didnt hide anything. He did the opposite. Do you think he should resign from leading Sinn Fein? From Stormont? From trying to free Ireland? From being alive? From what exactly?
I doubt anything would satisfy the Shinner bashing crowd.0 -
Advertisement
-
Why he is allowed to run a party is bad enough. Basically a terrorist who no doubt played a part in people losing their lives.0
-
The outrage isnt "that abused happened", its with the people who were NOT themselves paedophiles, who KNEW what was going on and yet still failed to act (or in some cases actively hid the culprit).
DeV.
All the information points towards he believing the victim and being willing to support her. She decided not to follow up on the matter, she decided to keep it private. It wasn't Gerry Adams places to go against her wishes. Bad enough to be raped by your father, but to then have you needs and desires disregarded after the fact is inexcusable.
What exactly was he to do? If the victim wont cooperate there's no point going to the police as the man is innocent until proven guilty. You could slander him in the local community but that's illegal and very close to vigilantism. So what do you do? Seriously if you know what way to handle a situation like that legally drop me a PM with the details because I think there's a lot of us for whom the information would be useful.
As much as I dislike Sinn Fein, I have to respect what Gerry Adams did here, he's supported his niece the entire way through and taken actions in her best interest, not his own or his brother. Politically speaking the best thing he could have done was have his brothers body found somewhere.Since the people who were abused were adults I think it is up to them to decide which action to take, it was not Adams' place to make that decision for them. If we were talking about children it'd be different but the abuse only came out to the rest of the family when the abused individual was an adult.
I really can't see why Adams' should resign and I think I disagree with him on almost every policy issue etc.
Pretty much.0 -
You have, like others who have posted, chosen to ignore the fact the he allowed his brother to work in conjunction with young, potential victims, without doing anything about it. We don't know if his brother attacked anyone else while working in these jobs but paedophiles are not known to remain celibate.As much as I dislike Sinn Fein, I have to respect what Gerry Adams did here, he's supported his niece the entire way through and taken actions in her best interest, not his own or his brother.
Although Adams claims to have informed the relevant people they claim he didn't.
He can't hide behind saying he was respecting his niece's privacy. He had a duty to act and didn't.
I don't see how that deserves respect. Understanding maybe, given his position, but definitely not respect.0 -
You have, like others who have posted, chosen to ignore the fact the he allowed his brother to work in conjunction with young, potential victims, without doing anything about it. We don't know if his brother attacked anyone else while working in these jobs but paedophiles are not known to remain celibate.
Although Adams claims to have informed the relevant people they claim he didn't.
He can't hide behind saying he was respecting his niece's privacy. He had a duty to act and didn't.
I don't see how that deserves respect. Understanding maybe, given his position, but definitely not respect.
You've chosen to ignore the part of my post where I asked what exactly he could of done short of slander.0 -
I have 10 posts in this thread. See if you can work it out.You've chosen to ignore the part of my post where I asked what exactly he could of done short of slander.
You seem very concerned about slander yet advocate his brother's body being found somewhere as the best political solution.
Strange set of priorities you have there.0 -
I have 10 posts in this thread. See if you can work it out.
You seem very concerned about slander yet advocate his brother's body being found somewhere as the best political solution.
Strange set of priorities you have there.
You've repeatedly said he should have acted, you imply he should have had his brother removed from his job. You've not once come out and said how he should have done so. I'd hazard a guess that the reason you've not stated methods is because those methods are illegal. A phone call to his boss claiming that he was a child abuser is both defamation and harassment.
Given that you've just accused me of advocating murder, you seem to have no issue with Libel. I didn't advocate it, I said that politically it would have been in Gerry adams best interest if his brother turned up dead/murdered. The people who vote sinn fein like that kind of thing. I didn't assert that this would be right.0 -
Gerry Adams is becoming very complicated to be a politician or the leader of a political party.0
-
Gerry Adams is becoming very complicated to be a politician or the leader of a political party.
Have been reading the thread on this over on politics.ie and I note with some amusement that the Shinners are studiously avoiding the issue of why the brits never used this over 22 years to blacken the Adams name and why Adams allowed his brother to continue in any roll in Sinn Fein given that he was an obvious target for MI5 to turn him as an informer.
Given Donaldson and Scap it looks like MI5 had another highly placed informer in the shape of one or both of the Adams brothers. As otherwise it is hard to fathom why the securicrats as Martin calls them chose to keep this a secret.
Difficult one to take for the Shinners facing up to the fact that their leader is a British agent or allowed someone who was a British agent to operate within Sinn Fein.0 -
Voipjunkie wrote: »Have been reading the thread on this over on politics.ie and I note with some amusement that the Shinners are studiously avoiding the issue of why the brits never used this over 22 years to blacken the Adams name and why Adams allowed his brother to continue in any roll in Sinn Fein given that he was an obvious target for MI5 to turn him as an informer.
Given Donaldson and Scap it looks like MI5 had another highly placed informer in the shape of one or both of the Adams brothers. As otherwise it is hard to fathom why the securicrats as Martin calls them chose to keep this a secret.
Difficult one to take for the Shinners facing up to the fact that their leader is a British agent or allowed someone who was a British agent to operate within Sinn Fein.
Maybe that is why Gerry Adams moved to limit his brother's influence in Sinn Fein rather than any concerns over child welfare.0 -
As with the bishops, Gerry Adams was in a position to prevent acts of abuse being carried out and failed to do anything meaningful.
And yet there is no rolling news coverage calling for his resignation, speculating as to whether he will resign or anthing like it.
Why the silence? Why the double-standard?
Because calling for the resignation of a Bishop won't result in a punishment beating.0 -
Advertisement
-
Adams was happy enough for him and his cronies to murder innocent people all around them, he's hardly going to be bothered by his brother fcuking his daughter now is he?
Adams Family Values:D
Just goes to prove what a bunch of scumbags they really are...0 -
Terrontress wrote: »Maybe that is why Gerry Adams moved to limit his brother's influence in Sinn Fein rather than any concerns over child welfare.
Ok you maybe I didn't spell it out clearly enough for you.
The only reason that I can think of for MI5 to keep this quiet is because they were protecting someone. ie an informant/agent so that means they were protecting Gerry or Liam or both. And even if Liam was the informer MI5 were protecting that doesn't clear Gerry he was aware of the allegations against his brother and that a statement had been made so MI5 would be aware and still he allowed his brother to stay in the republican movement.
It's a different issue to the child abuse/child protection issue but one that republicans who ended up in jail or relatives of people killed by loyalists/ruc/brits might have a lot of interest in.0 -
Adams was happy enough for him and his cronies to murder innocent people all around them, he's hardly going to be bothered by his brother fcuking his daughter now is he?
Adams Family Values:D
Just goes to prove what a bunch of scumbags they really are...
If you've nothing to add.....0 -
im not sure aine tyrell has come out and said adams lied or didn't do enough i think her mother said something like that, sometimes people/papers, dont like to get outraged on behalf of others, they wait to see what they say.0
-
If you've nothing to add.....
I've plenty to add. The double standards are unreal. Those fcukers did as big a job of keeping this country in the dark ages as the catholic church ever did. They abused more people then the CC ever did too.
They would have no issue knee capping a kid for joyriding yet the provo elite were safe and sound even though plenty of people knew both father and son were at it. They did more work running protection rackets and their vigilante groups than they ever did fighting for "freedom".
Adams kept his mouth shut for his own political gain and has lied about his warning Youth Clubs in Dundalk and Belfast about Liam Adams. Why also did Adams say he was estranged from Liam Adams yet he attended weddings with him and canvased with him in Dundalk.
What I find disturbing is the amount of Sinn Fein supporters who don't have a problem with this.
It's a good job he's an MP, because I would not have him in the Dail.0 -
I've plenty to add. The double standards are unreal. Those fcukers did as big a job of keeping this country in the dark ages as the catholic church ever did. They abused more people then the CC ever did too.
They would have no issue knee capping a kid for joyriding yet the provo elite were safe and sound even though plenty of people knew both father and son were at it. They did more work running protection rackets and their vigilante groups than they ever did fighting for "freedom".
Adams kept his mouth shut for his own political gain and has lied about his warning Youth Clubs in Dundalk and Belfast about Liam Adams. Why also did Adams say he was estranged from Liam Adams yet he attended weddings with him and canvased with him in Dundalk.
What I find disturbing is the amount of Sinn Fein supporters who don't have a problem with this.
It's a good job he's an MP, because I would not have him in the Dail.
Do you really mean, if he or any other person as a sinn fein candidate was running in your area, you would not have him or her in the dail?.
If he was a fianna failer/ fine gaeler, or labour (rememeber emmet stagg when that kind of thing was illegal) in 2004, would you be so wound up?
Even if he was a TD, what would you do if he was not in your constituency?
you seem more caught up with the usual guff on sinn fein than with the victim and whats best for her.
a lot of people tell or dictate everyone to forget the past, and criticise others when talking about problems of the 1960's in the north - to be rebutted by "ah its in the past".
right, well for those that say this, why is this issue being linked with the IRA's actions of the past?. Sinn Fein have made it crystal clear its position with regard to constitutionalism (if you think others, i strongly recommend, shutting the fu*k up when referring to sinn fein for who are retarded and have problems with historical FACTS (with regard to the Adams-Reid proposal of the 1980's and REALITY of the Republican movement). If you really think the powers between sinn fein and ira were one and the same in the past, i suggest to educate yourself a bit better than the guff that Southern and British media slapped out on a daily basis
with regard to the first line, your very selective with your history - despite the increasing sinn fein vote in the north; fine gael, or conor cruise o'brien back from the dead? I would strongly, but sincerly recommend that you wake up from civil war politics (oh don't worry, economically and policy wise- sinn fein ahve a long way to go before scarring the established parties in the south)
the church, in irish history, never seemed too bothered about use of violence so long as they were on the winning side (that of course is another matter - worth talking about in another thread - provided there is accuracy, balance and no trolling)
Are you fully aware of the precise history and activity of the Adams family with regard to the IRA? if so, i am sure members of An Garda Siochana and or PSNI would be glad to hear from you.
With regard to the victim, lets see what she has to say first before paying heed to your third paragraph.
(just to make clear, i am a southerner and not a member of any party/social group or other - vote wise,like many, i am swayed by the politcal/economic/social condition of the period)0 -
I've plenty to add. The double standards are unreal. Those fcukers did as big a job of keeping this country in the dark ages as the catholic church ever did. They abused more people then the CC ever did too. .
Really. So the IRA ran schools, institutions, hospitals and churches....And there was me thinking that they were a minority subversive organisation.They would have no issue knee capping a kid for joyriding yet the provo elite were safe and sound even though plenty of people knew both father and son were at it. .
And you've proof of that, I presume?Adams kept his mouth shut for his own political gain and has lied about his warning Youth Clubs in Dundalk and Belfast about Liam Adams..
You've proof?Why also did Adams say he was estranged from Liam Adams yet he attended weddings with him..
And everyone gets on with everyone else at weddings?0 -
I've plenty to add. The double standards are unreal. Those fcukers did as big a job of keeping this country in the dark ages as the catholic church ever did. They abused more people then the CC ever did too.
They would have no issue knee capping a kid for joyriding yet the provo elite were safe and sound even though plenty of people knew both father and son were at it. They did more work running protection rackets and their vigilante groups than they ever did fighting for "freedom".
Adams kept his mouth shut for his own political gain and has lied about his warning Youth Clubs in Dundalk and Belfast about Liam Adams. Why also did Adams say he was estranged from Liam Adams yet he attended weddings with him and canvased with him in Dundalk.
What I find disturbing is the amount of Sinn Fein supporters who don't have a problem with this.
It's a good job he's an MP, because I would not have him in the Dail.
I would imagine actually, seeing that he personally was not reasonable for the henious crime of sexual abuse, it may have being a political coup if Mr Adams had used his political influence in bringing his brother out into the open (with consent of niece) as oppose to making political gain by covering up. Whilst it might have thrown fuel to the unionist fire and their fears that this kind of thing maybe going on already (no doubt they would have imagined celibate priests being capable of same, sense they were/are great at stoking up imagined or real fears) adams would have been able to show a guesture to the unionists of non catholic faith that he and people like him would not tolerate cover ups.
Of course, this was never the intention - ie make political gain regardless of what way he went.0 -
Adams is a political leader, NOT a moral one, he's demonstrated this time and again in relation to murder in NI, ROI and UK, the politics of condemnation and all that.
I guess that's why no one has said Adams should resign.0 -
Advertisement
-
Really. So the IRA ran schools, institutions, hospitals and churches....And there was me thinking that they were a minority subversive organisation.
And you've proof of that, I presume?
You've proof?
And everyone gets on with everyone else at weddings?
i know that you are directly responding to a thread. I know others have asked very valid questions as to why its okay to slate the church as oppose to lay people with regard to lack of response to complaints to sexual abuse or any other kind of abuse,
but
can we ALL try and keep the church out of this. this is not a church, or necessarily catholic issue in this context.0
Advertisement