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No calls for Gerry Adams to resign - why not?

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13

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    #62
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    imme wrote: »
    Adams is a political leader, NOT a moral one, he's demonstrated this time and again in relation to murder in NI, ROI and UK, the politics of condemnation and all that.

    I guess that's why no one has said Adams should resign.

    its slow tonight, i would not be surprised if the brave members of the gardai get mentioned here. sorry for dragging these men in here, they and family don't deserve it, but this is becoming a sinn fein dasher here as oppose to consideration of the victim. many have complained of adams making politcal gain, yet many are doing OR preceived to be doing same - now imagine if this was youtube or a more northern based site.

    WHEN we as the people, get a better detailed information (somehow, i don't see that happening) then by all means we can discuss this better When we also consider the circumstances as in the north and the south and even britain in the times of the incidents. if the facts are what many beleive they are to be, then it would be hard for anyone not to wish the Members of sinn fein, if they seek creditibility, to call for adams' resignation.

    I am sorry to see so many reactionaries in this site,particularily in the politics section, for the last year.


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    #63
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    its slow tonight, i would not be surprised if the brave members of the gardai get mentioned here. sorry for dragging these men in here, they and family don't deserve it, but this is becoming a sinn fein dasher here as oppose to consideration of the victim. many have complained of adams making politcal gain, yet many are doing OR preceived to be doing same - now imagine if this was youtube or a more northern based site.

    WHEN we as the people, get a better detailed information (somehow, i don't see that happening) then by all means we can discuss this better When we also consider the circumstances as in the north and the south and even britain in the times of the incidents. if the facts are what many beleive they are to be, then it would be hard for anyone not to wish the Members of sinn fein, if they seek creditibility, to call for adams' resignation.

    I am sorry to see so many reactionaries in this site,particularily in the politics section, for the last year.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say about "youtube", also did you read the title of the thread, it asks specifically about Adams. I have great sympathy for the victims, all victims including victims of Adams' father,


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    #64
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    He hasn't resigned based on previous cover-ups, not passing on what he knew to the relevant authorities, and outright condoning of crimes.

    Why would he start now ?


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    #65
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    He hasn't resigned based on previous cover-ups, not passing on what he knew to the relevant authorities, and outright condoning of crimes.

    Why would he start now ?
    if he wishes his political party to have any credibility in ireland,he should have resigned,--strange how a minor crime is the one that may bring him down,


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    #66
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    IMO, child abuse is child abuse. I don't see how Adams is any less accountable than any of the others who knew about child abuse but did nothing. Why should the terms be different for him?

    Again, it's this escapism that people are having from the real problem. The prominence of child abuse in general in Irish society.


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    #67
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Jakkass wrote: »
    IMO, child abuse is child abuse. I don't see how Adams is any less accountable than any of the others who knew about child abuse but did nothing. Why should the terms be different for him?

    Again, it's this escapism that people are having from the real problem. The prominence of child abuse in general in Irish society.
    child abuse is heartbreaking.
    somebody asked a question in a 'political' thread about Adams and his position.

    I hope most people on here would be of the opinion that child abuse is wrong and should be reported.


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    #68
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    imme wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say about "youtube", also did you read the title of the thread, it asks specifically about Adams. I have great sympathy for the victims, all victims including victims of Adams' father,

    yes but as per usual other's slip in the troubles into this. its not relevant here. youtube comments would be fairly worse than some of the nonsense stated in some posts. bigotted, secterian etc

    some posts are going away from the real reasons as to why adams should resign, ie failure to act and /or lying to cover himself. the church is being bandied in also, why? comments are made with a complete failure or unwillingness to understand the vast difference between the police services in both jurisdictions at that time.

    but of course, that does not bother some who clearly wish to get their kicks in on the party and adams as a leader


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    #69
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    He hasn't resigned based on previous cover-ups, not passing on what he knew to the relevant authorities, and outright condoning of crimes.

    Why would he start now ?

    trust and belief in the relevant authorities is better than previously


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    #70
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    I doubt anything would satisfy the Shinner bashing crowd.

    What about the equal accountability, anti-double standards crowd?


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    #71
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    comments are made with a complete failure or unwillingness to understand the vast difference between the police services in both jurisdictions

    I'll avoid the Qi-style alarms and just simply say that Adams & Co obviously didn't / don't respect the police services in either juristiction.


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    #72
    tororosso
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭tororosso


    studiorat wrote: »
    Adams was happy enough for him and his cronies to murder innocent people all around them, he's hardly going to be bothered by his brother fcuking his daughter now is he?

    Adams Family Values:D

    Just goes to prove what a bunch of scumbags they really are...

    What a contribution :rolleyes:


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    #73
    A Primal Nut
    Registered Users Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    DeepBlue wrote: »
    You have, like others who have posted, chosen to ignore the fact the he allowed his brother to work in conjunction with young, potential victims, without doing anything about it. We don't know if his brother attacked anyone else while working in these jobs but paedophiles are not known to remain celibate.
    Although Adams claims to have informed the relevant people they claim he didn't.

    Maybe those organisations are protecting themselves. I doubt they would keep written records of something like that anyway; especially for so long.

    Unless it can be proved he didn't tell the relevant authorities then he did nothing wrong. Also, he didn't find out while the abuse was ongoing; he found out later when she was an adult. So its not like he allowed it to continue, knowing what was happening. This is a crucial difference from what the catholic church did; they allowed it to continue.


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    #74
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    ^^ Gerry Adams allowed his brother to live without bringing justice, and allowed him to be a potential danger to other children. How is this different?


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    #75
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jakkass wrote: »
    ^^ Gerry Adams allowed his brother to live without bringing justice, and allowed him to be a potential danger to other children.

    Thats not what happened at all. If you aren't even going to pretend to care about the facts of the mans actions......


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    #76
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Thats not what happened at all. If you aren't even going to pretend to care about the facts of the mans actions......

    I'm unsure about this case. If Adams knew that his brother was a paedophile since the late 80s, then what was he doing working with children a few minutes walk from Adams' constituency office up until a few years ago? Are we to believe that Adams was unaware of this fact or something?


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    #77
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    It is widely believed that people become abusers because they themselves have been abused. IE a father abuses a son and the son goes on to be an abuser themselves, Gerry Adams father was an abuser, his brother is an abuser, like it or not suspicion is going to be raised over Gerry himself


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    #78
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    junder wrote: »
    It is widely believed that people become abusers because they themselves have been abused. IE a father abuses a son and the son goes on to be an abuser themselves, Gerry Adams father was an abuser, his brother is an abuser, like it or not suspicion is going to be raised over Gerry himself

    Absolute b*llocks, nobody is seriously contending that Gerry Adams himself might be a nonce, you're just trying to muddle the issue here to be honest. The actual issue is that Gerry Adams most likely covered up for his predatory paedophile brother and as usual told a pack of lies to cover himself.


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    #79
    Jaap
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Jaap


    http://www.argus.ie/news/gerry-adams-controversy-still-raging-on-2001565.html

    The scandal over Gerry Adams' brother continues!
    Looks like Sinn Fein were protecting a person who could have preyed on one of the most vunerable groups in society...our children/youth!
    Gerry...why have we only heard you talk to your own and Sinn Fein's media people?
    I'm sure BBC Spotlight would like to put a few questions to you like they are with the Robinsons!


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    #80
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The Tribune is following up the above angle on Sunday story by Susan Breen, she was on the Last Word earlier.


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    #81
    DeepBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    "Adams denies abuse 'cover-up'"

    Pretty strong title there for the 'Times. Have they ditched their "softly, softly" approach to this story?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0115/breaking64.htm


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    #82
    stuartfanning
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭stuartfanning


    Interesting article from the Irish Independent, about Adams getting off lightly!

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/robinson-seen-as-a-joke-but-adams-must-face-serious-questions-2017385.html


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    #83
    Rookster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭Rookster


    What surpises me is that people are surprised by Adam's behaviour. He has lived his whole life as a liar and hypocrite.


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    #84
    Jaap
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Jaap


    http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/17/exclusive-gerry-adams-ignored-two-more-rape-victim/

    You would've thought Gerry Adams would have suffered enough seeing his dad abuse family members...that he would've accepted zero tolerance in sexual abuse in the republican movement!
    This article proves that theory wrong!
    Aside from the terrorist acts of the IRA that Gerry Adams stood by and supported for many years (which we have to leave in the history books if we want a better future for the north)...allegedly turning a blind eye to the rape and sexual assaults of these two women (who were children at the time of the attacks)...this is from the President of a party having a big say in the policing and justice of a country with over 1 and a half million people!
    No wonder Sinn Fein are doing so bad in the Republic...and this article will not gain them any more support!


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    #85
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Thing is this story has got almost no traction, who's talking about it? Nobody who matters.

    Another case
    The party issued a statement last night saying that it was considering taking legal action against the Dublin Sunday Tribune newspaper, which ran a front-page headline saying: “Gerry Adams ignored two more rape victims”.

    The paper claimed: “Two women abused by republicans say Sinn Fein leader knew but did nothing”. It says that a relative of Joe Cahill, a former Provisional IRA commander revealed that she was repeatedly raped at 16 by a prominent West Belfast Provo.

    Another woman, the daughter of a Provisional IRA commander, gives the Sunday Tribune’s Northern Editor Suzanne Breen a harrowing account of abuse as a 10-year-old at the hands of an elected Sinn Fein representative.

    Separately the Belfast Irish News reports this morning that a Sinn Fein councillor, Breige Meehan, has been suspended from the party after being questioned by police over allegations of abuse. She told the Irish News that she did not want to comment.


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    #86
    mickeyrooo
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭mickeyrooo


    DeepBlue wrote: »
    I see the situations as being very similar.

    Position of power - check.
    Knowledge of potential sex-abuse - check.
    Failure to act or protect potential victims - check.

    Besides that does Adams' situation have to be an exact mirror of the bishops before it can be condemned?

    Gerry Adams’ situation is very different to the situation of the Bishops. The only similarity is abuse. Gerry Adams was dealing with family the Bishops were not.
    Also, the victim in Gerry Adams case did not want this information made public, the Bishops on the other hand provided new victims for the known abusers by moving the known abusers from parish to parish. It's easy to condemn Gerry Adams from the sidelines but when you’re placed in a situation like that knowing what to do is not so easy and protecting the actual victim is your priority. I think he handled it as well as any man could given the facts.


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    #87
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Gerry Adams doesnt hold any elected political office in this country.
    He doesnt claim to have been called to his work by God or given a vocation by God and as head of Sinn Fein, he doesnt claim to be the leader of the ' One True Church ' . Nor has he participated in institutional cover up for decades and moved scores of rapist priests about thereby allowing them to prey on new victims.


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    #88
    cherryred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭cherryred


    mickeyrooo wrote: »
    Gerry Adams’ situation is very different to the situation of the Bishops. The only similarity is abuse. Gerry Adams was dealing with family the Bishops were not.
    Also, the victim in Gerry Adams case did not want this information made public, the Bishops on the other hand provided new victims for the known abusers by moving the known abusers from parish to parish. It's easy to condemn Gerry Adams from the sidelines but when you’re placed in a situation like that knowing what to do is not so easy and protecting the actual victim is your priority. I think he handled it as well as any man could given the facts.

    article from Tribune with Aine Tyrell http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/24/aine-tyrell-gerry-adams-is-still-lying-about-abuse/

    Aine Tyrell never requested anonymity.

    He also provided potential new victims for his brother, he worked in a number of youth groups north and south of the border. Aine had requested that Adams talk to the groups to warn them, he told her he did but when she talked to them herself they had no idea.

    Adams was clearly protecting himself. His career was more important than his niece and whatever child that might have come to harm.


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    #89
    mickeyrooo
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭mickeyrooo


    cherryred wrote: »
    article from Tribune with Aine Tyrell http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/24/aine-tyrell-gerry-adams-is-still-lying-about-abuse/

    Aine Tyrell never requested anonymity.

    He also provided potential new victims for his brother, he worked in a number of youth groups north and south of the border. Aine had requested that Adams talk to the groups to warn them, he told her he did but when she talked to them herself they had no idea.

    Adams was clearly protecting himself. His career was more important than his niece and whatever child that might have come to harm.

    Well there are some new facts I was not aware of...that’s interesting stuff there...thanks for that cherryred
    If that’s true then there is something nasty going on because as I understood it Gerry Adams did say she didn’t want to go to the police and wanted to remain anonymous... I haven't lived in Ireland for the past few months so I don’t hear all the news or gossip. My apologies.


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    #90
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    cherryred wrote: »
    article from Tribune with Aine Tyrell http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/24/aine-tyrell-gerry-adams-is-still-lying-about-abuse/

    Aine Tyrell never requested anonymity.

    He also provided potential new victims for his brother, he worked in a number of youth groups north and south of the border. Aine had requested that Adams talk to the groups to warn them, he told her he did but when she talked to them herself they had no idea.

    Adams was clearly protecting himself. His career was more important than his niece and whatever child that might have come to harm.

    I agree with you that Adams was protecting himself. However do you thInk Ratzinger actually cares about any of the abused children ?
    All this hand wring from bishops, cardinals and Pope is simply public relations behaviour. They had decades to show they cared.
    Here is a question : if these clerics actually believed in a God who sees everything, would they have behaved as they did ? I dont think so. So what do they believe in ?
    Let Adams resign and let Ratzinger(Benedict) resign as well.


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    #91
    cherryred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭cherryred


    no worries mickeyroo, just happened to see it yesterday. pretty shocking!


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