Why do people hate/dislike Enda Kenny/Eamon Gilmore so much?

Flamed Diving

Hello, as you may or may not have noticed, my interest in Politics is largely reliant on some attachment it has to Economics. So, while I know who the main faces of each party are, I really know very little about them personally. People seem to be making many broad comments about Enda Kenny (and Gilmore), saying that he is unfit as a leader, without ever dealing in specifics. Perhaps the reasons why are common knowledge, in which case I much plead ignorance. So, could people tell me why it is the leader of both FG and Labour are so very unfit to lead?

This is a genuine question, so I guess on behalf of the mods may I say I'm not looking for an exercise such as "XXX is a XXX and a XXing XX". I'm looking for constructive criticism that relates to their ability to lead.

Rossibaby

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Hello, as you may or may not have noticed, my interest in Politics is largely reliant on some attachment it has to Economics. So, while I know who the main faces of each party are, I really know very little about them personally. People seem to be making many broad comments about Enda Kenny (and Gilmore), saying that he is unfit as a leader, without ever dealing in specifics. Perhaps the reasons why are common knowledge, in which case I much plead ignorance. So, could people tell me why it is the leader of both FG and Labour are so very unfit to lead?

This is a genuine question, so I guess on behalf of the mods may I say I'm not looking for an exercise such as "XXX is a XXX and a XXing XX". I'm looking for constructive criticism that relates to their ability to lead.

Well I don't think any leaders of the main parties are capable of leading adequately. Enda Kenny is extremely unlikable, he has absolutely no charisma[which would be seen as a leadership characteristics to me] and his policies are rubbish. FG and FF are just too cheeks of the same arse, not much between them though FG may be a little worse with right wing hacks like leo varadkar.

Gilmore to me, as a lefist, is a turncoat scumbag who abandoned every sort of principal in the quest for power. That is all these polticians want, a bit of influence and status and they will compromise any principal to get that, look at the Greens for example. Sinn Fein are the same, they tried to whore themselves out to FF in 2007 for instance. They all just want power,status and cash, none are fit to lead and none are genuine.

Biggins

"Hate" I feel is the wrong word to use in the title of the thread.
It superposes from the outset that anyone replying to your idea, might indeed "hate" either or both from the beginning.

I don't. I don't "hate" them. I dislike the positions at which they are at and because of that, if they were to assume leadership in running this country, I fear we will be left without a leader with strong vision, strong character and strong ability to carry out what needs to be done.
I can't see that presently in the pair of them - but I don't "hate" them.

gerry28

Do they really hate them or are they just afraid of change.

aurelius79

Biggins wrote: »

I don't. I don't "hate" them. I dislike the positions at which they are at and because of that, if they were to assume leadership in running this country, I fear we will be left without a leader with strong vision, strong character and strong ability to carry out what needs to be done.
I can't see that presently in the pair of them - but I don't "hate" them.

Why is there one set of standards that applies to opposition leaders and a completely different set for government leaders? Strong vision, strong character, strong ability to carry out what needs to be done. I can't think of a single person in FF that these characteristics could be attributed to, especially Ahern and Cowen.

So why not elect FG or Labor? They can't possibly do any worse than what FF have done (or haven't done) in the past ten years. I guess Irish politics really is just a popularity contest. The guy with that twinkle in his eye will always win, regardless of his ability to lead the country.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Flamed Diving

I changed the title sometime ago.

Colm R

There are two types of people who dont like Kenny.
The first group does not agree or like his (and his party) policies, principals and fear his impact as leader of the country.
The second group dislike him because disliking the leader of Fine Gael is the "done" thing.

The first group has good reason to (although I disagree with them) dislike him. But the real irony is that the second group probably has a lot more in common with Kenny than they would think.

irish_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

could i be so bold as to request a personality profile of our current taoiseach ,

rugbyman

Rossibaby wrote: »

Well I don't think any leaders of the main parties are capable of leading adequately. Enda Kenny is extremely unlikable, he has absolutely no charisma[which would be seen as a leadership characteristics to me] and his policies are rubbish. FG and FF are just too cheeks of the same arse, not much between them though FG may be a little worse with right wing hacks like leo varadkar.

Gilmore to me, as a lefist, is a turncoat scumbag who abandoned every sort of principal in the quest for power. That is all these polticians want, a bit of influence and status and they will compromise any principal to get that, look at the Greens for example. Sinn Fein are the same, they tried to whore themselves out to FF in 2007 for instance. They all just want power,status and cash, none are fit to lead and none are genuine.

Rossi baby, i disagree with what you say but i chuckle at your choice of words. No half measures with you!
Rugbyman

thebigcheese22

Rossibaby wrote: »

Well I don't think any leaders of the main parties are capable of leading adequately. Enda Kenny is extremely unlikable, he has absolutely no charisma[which would be seen as a leadership characteristics to me] and his policies are rubbish. FG and FF are just too cheeks of the same arse, not much between them though FG may be a little worse with right wing hacks like leo varadkar.

Gilmore to me, as a lefist, is a turncoat scumbag who abandoned every sort of principal in the quest for power. That is all these polticians want, a bit of influence and status and they will compromise any principal to get that, look at the Greens for example. Sinn Fein are the same, they tried to whore themselves out to FF in 2007 for instance. They all just want power,status and cash, none are fit to lead and none are genuine.

So Varadkar is too right wing but Gilmore is too left wing? I don't get it...

Anyway, Gilmore has not 'abandoned his principles'. I think you'll find that he was the only party leader to have the balls to put a stop to O Donoghue's gravy train. The people agree as well, he's the highest opinion rating of all the party leaders (not saying a lot looking at the rest, but its a start!)

Kenny changed his position immediately after Gilmore had demanded JOD's resignation and it made him look like a fool. (Another reason he's not a good leader - too indecisive) Kenny's a good organiser, not a good leader.

Edit: Just got what you're saying about Gilmore from a leftist point of view, rather than him being leftist *facepalm*

View

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Hello, as you may or may not have noticed, my interest in Politics is largely reliant on some attachment it has to Economics. So, while I know who the main faces of each party are, I really know very little about them personally. People seem to be making many broad comments about Enda Kenny (and Gilmore), saying that he is unfit as a leader, without ever dealing in specifics. Perhaps the reasons why are common knowledge, in which case I much plead ignorance. So, could people tell me why it is the leader of both FG and Labour are so very unfit to lead?

Maybe, because they are not FF? Or Greens/SF/Socialist Worker or whatever the poster's political "TRUE religion" is?

At least, that is what I hope it is - those are at least semi-sane. The real crazies are the ones who are essentially nihilists - hating all and sundry without having anything to offer in alternative.

Eliot Rosewater

People don't like Kenny because he doesnt have the will or ambition to do his job as opposition leader right. Fine Gael had their moment to make history and become the majority leaders of the House by taking the bull by the horns but they choose not to. They abandoned the risky option - a public campaign - and opted for smug complacency. They will now crawl into government with Labour. And they've no one to blame but themselves.

The proof of the pudding is this: how many times have you heard people (like thebigcheese22 here) pointing out Gilmores relative decisiveness over the JOD issue? (Hint: a lot). Gilmores actions over the JOD arent really a benchmark of how he would perform in Government. Yet its what people wanted. Policies are well and good for those few people making a rational choice, but most just want the reassurance that should they put you in the hot seat you will sort it out. And Kenny has refused to give this reassurance.

donegalfella wrote: »

A dapper, mild-mannered bureaucrat, Kenny lacks the charisma and personality people look for in times of crisis. Imagine it is May 1940, and Britain has a new prime minister, none other than ... Enda Kenny. Hitler giggles.

Thats the first time Ive ever read a "Godwinian" Hitler analogy thats actually accurate!

profitius

The celebrity mad culture wants a celeb to lead the country. Bertie Ahern could do what he wanted and still be loved.

nesf

Kenny I don't mind, I don't particularly like the man as a politician but his party is one I can find common ground with. The opposite is the case with Gilmore who I think is a very good politician but whose party I disagree with more than agree with.

Now if only Gilmore was leading FG...

aurelius79

nesf wrote: »

Kenny I don't mind, I don't particularly like the man as a politician but his party is one I can find common ground with. The opposite is the case with Gilmore who I think is a very good politician but whose party I disagree with more than agree with.

Now if only Gilmore was leading FG...

There are a lot of great leaders in this country, politics just gets in the way. I'd love to see Joe Higgins out of the Socialist party (I like the Socialists, they just have no hope in this country) and joining a coalition government.

Rossibaby

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

So Varadkar is too right wing but Gilmore is too left wing? I don't get it...

Anyway, Gilmore has not 'abandoned his principles'. I think you'll find that he was the only party leader to have the balls to put a stop to O Donoghue's gravy train. The people agree as well, he's the highest opinion rating of all the party leaders (not saying a lot looking at the rest, but its a start!)

Kenny changed his position immediately after Gilmore had demanded JOD's resignation and it made him look like a fool. (Another reason he's not a good leader - too indecisive) Kenny's a good organiser, not a good leader.

Edit: Just got what you're saying about Gilmore from a leftist point of view, rather than him being leftist *facepalm*

Yeah you got it, was speaking as a leftist.

Joey the lips

Having read the thread i think i can make it simple.

Eamonn Gilmore is incapable of making policy. He follows every other part. For example we still dont know fully his own party stance on nama or his solution. Why? Because labour never commit to anything. Labour in Dublin agreed with Sinn Fein various partys that bin charges were unfair as there was no incentive to produce less. They promissed if in power they would abolish. What did dermot lacy(Lab) do when he became lord mayor....? Nothing!

Mary had a little lamb who's fleece was white as snow and every where that mary went the lambs were sure to go. Mary is fine gael labour is the lambs....

As for fine gael. I actually think enda kenny is a nice man its just every time i see him I think of dougal out of father ted. Not his looks but enda's behaviour. Richard Bruton is not much better either. Although I am shuddering to say it. They need someone like leo vadakker to lead them. Someone that says i can run a country. Not I I I I I .

pjmn

Don't hate either of them.

But I'm far from convinced that either of them have the ability to take hard decisions and lead this country out of the mess that it's in. I'm not a FF'er and would agree that BC isn't displaying these characteristics either. As far as I can see B Lenihan is currently leading this country and is taking hard and unpopular decisions. {I wish him well btw in terms of his illness}.

LordSutch

I don't dislike Enda Kenny, I just get the impression that he has the charisma of an old bit of grey cardboard!

Nice man I'm sure, so is Gordon Brown ...............

Cork Boy

Charisma? Seriously? :eek:

If charisma is what ye want from a leader why not just get Bertie back in the hot seat - sure he had it in buckets?

While i agree charisma is a leadership quality, there are also other forms of leadership - autocratic (Haughy), democratic (gormley), you know the list from Leaving Cert business

Look, remember that while the taoiseach is is the CEO of Ireland Inc, there still is a board of directors he has to work with and an AGM every 5 years where the shareholders get a say. (please don't be so sad as to have to point out its not an AGM if its every five years, i know that, you know that, just trying to give an analogy here).

Anyways, as my title suggests, if we as a people are going to elect our leaders based on some flawed idea that they have to be 'likeable' then its time i booked a one way ticket to destination elsewhere.

Final Note: The above is not meant in defence of any particular leader, it just really annoys me to see such idiocy being spouted by supposedly intelligent human beings.

LordSutch

Cork Boy wrote: »

Charisma? Seriously? :eek:

If charisma is what ye want from a leader why not just get Bertie back in the hot seat - sure he had it in buckets?.

Indeed, but people being people 'Charisma' is what helps to attract the masses ........

thebigcheese22

Joey the lips wrote: »

Eamonn Gilmore is incapable of making policy. He follows every other part. For example we still dont know fully his own party stance on nama or his solution. Why? Because labour never commit to anything.

Eh thats wrong. Labour's stance on the banking crisis is for temporary nationalisation of the banks, and are against NAMA. Please inform yourself before spouting off.

Joey the lips wrote: »

As for fine gael. I actually think enda kenny is a nice man its just every time i see him I think of dougal out of father ted. Not his looks but enda's behaviour. Richard Bruton is not much better either. Although I am shuddering to say it. They need someone like leo vadakker to lead them. Someone that says i can run a country. Not I I I I I .

Leo Varadkar would be the ruin of our country IMO *shudder*

zootroid

Cork Boy wrote: »

Charisma? Seriously? :eek:

If charisma is what ye want from a leader why not just get Bertie back in the hot seat - sure he had it in buckets?

While i agree charisma is a leadership quality, there are also other forms of leadership - autocratic (Haughy), democratic (gormley), you know the list from Leaving Cert business

Look, remember that while the taoiseach is is the CEO of Ireland Inc, there still is a board of directors he has to work with and an AGM every 5 years where the shareholders get a say. (please don't be so sad as to have to point out its not an AGM if its every five years, i know that, you know that, just trying to give an analogy here).

Anyways, as my title suggests, if we as a people are going to elect our leaders based on some flawed idea that they have to be 'likeable' then its time i booked a one way ticket to destination elsewhere.

Final Note: The above is not meant in defence of any particular leader, it just really annoys me to see such idiocy being spouted by supposedly intelligent human beings.

Exactly. I want the Taoiseach to be honest and competent. I don't really care if he's got charisma or not.

I don't really have a problem with Enda Kenny. Given how Cowen has turned out after everybody raving about him, I think he deserves a chance. I don't like Gilmore, much preferred Pat Rabbitte. Think Gilmore would just pander to the unions.

rugbyman

from reading scores of posts i come to the conlusion that those who "hate" Enda Kenny or regards him as weak etc, are barely disguised FF or SF types.
I think it is reasonable of me to have this belief from reading their various posts.( I the same way that one ,on reading mine would come to conclusions)

In each case I would imagine them to be still civil war types.


In the case of those who "hate" Eamonn Gilmore, it is a different kettle of fish, they would be right wingers who would not like to see any lefties in a future Coalition.

eamonn Gilmore has to make certain types of noises to attract or keep his people. All of this will go when the time comes to enter a coalition.

Regards Rugbyman

Shea O'Meara

It's a funny thing. As mentioned on others threads, why keep sticking with what doesn't work because we believe the untried option MAY be as bad?
In a broad sense, would we be any worse off with Kenny or Gilmore? I for one would be willing to give either party a shot at this point, purely based on Fianna Fails track record.

jackcee

rugbyman wrote: »

eamonn Gilmore has to make certain types of noises to attract or keep his people. All of this will go when the time comes to enter a coalition.

Regards Rugbyman

Good God, Man. Do you not read back over what you post?????
"Eamonn has to make certain types of noises to attract or keep his people".!!!!!!!!!!.

What kind of people are these?????
What kind of noises does he have to make??????
What kind of man is he????????

So, let me get right. Eamonn has to make "noises" - but "when the time comes to enter a Coalition", "all this will go".

So at the moment, we cannot believe anything that Eamonn says - it is only "certain types of noises".

So by definition, this means that the other crowd are right!!!!
Of course, we dont know who the other crowd are - since you specified "a" Coalition.

Of course this does explain the abject floustering of himself and Joan Burton over the past year - a year which should have been a wet dream for an Oppostion Party.

I take it you are not entering Eamonn for the Integrity Award this year!!!!.

rugbyman

hello Jackcee.

i would say Eamonn is as good as you get. there are some politicians who say exactly what they mean, but few.

politicians try to ride a few horses at once and very few will openly offend those who just might vote for them.

Eamonn Gilmore, accepting that the Govt needed to cut 4 bn, then sought a line to take that tried to indicate to trade union members that he was supporting them.

i referred to "a " coalition, as there could be the numbers to make a FF/Lab coalition, but chances of the labour party opting for that are slim.


you stated
"So by definition, this means that the other crowd are right!!!!"

one cannot assume this , both may be wrong, on any topic.

regards, rugbyman

Joey the lips

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Eh thats wrong. Labour's stance on the banking crisis is for temporary nationalisation of the banks, and are against NAMA. Please inform yourself before spouting off.



Leo Varadkar would be the ruin of our country IMO *shudder*

How ya eamonn. Its not incorrect. Do you know how long it took you to come up with that policy. It was old news before you though of it.

As for the temp nationalisation of the banks. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. its a pipe dream. I am well informed. sorry to say. I love how labour is against the formation of a toxic bank but has no other althernative than the temp nationalisation of banks. That does not deal with the toxic assets. It just puts them all in the tax payers hands by temp nationalisation. Nama is not good but its working towards a profit. Nationalisation is socialism without the socialist ownership principles. As said its a utopia.

Its white smoke and labour know it.

As for leo. thats fair enough but no one else in fine gael is capable.

Its all just opinion

brianthebard

Joey the lips wrote: »

Having read the thread i think i can make it simple.

Eamonn Gilmore is incapable of making policy. He follows every other part. For example we still dont know fully his own party stance on nama or his solution.

This comes up again and again, and I've no idea why. Do people think that the opposition are supposed to tell the government what to do so that they can take the opposition policies? The one benefit of being in opposition is that you are not required to put forward your position until after the government has done so, allowing for critique and improvement of your own parties policies.

As for NAMA, I thought it was quite clear that Labour rejected it. Afaik both FG and Labour put forward their own alternatives-FG the Good bank idea, Labour nationalisation. I don't know what's complicated about this. I honestly believe that a lot of people don't recognise parties policies unless they're being discussed in a boards thread.

Joey the lips

brianthebard wrote: »

This comes up again and again, and I've no idea why. Do people think that the opposition are supposed to tell the government what to do so that they can take the opposition policies? The one benefit of being in opposition is that you are not required to put forward your position until after the government has done so, allowing for critique and improvement of your own parties policies.

As for NAMA, I thought it was quite clear that Labour rejected it. Afaik both FG and Labour put forward their own alternatives-FG the Good bank idea, Labour nationalisation. I don't know what's complicated about this. I honestly believe that a lot of people don't recognise parties policies unless they're being discussed in a boards thread.

Fair point. But martain mcguinness is not in govt down here and i tend to listen to what he says because he is blunt.

I liked Rauari Quinn as a leader and I liked the old fine gael justice minister(Cant think of his name now)

I just cannot stand the way Eamonn Gilmore seems never to give a straight answer. On anything.

btw. I read all there policies on there websites. I know I need to get out more.