Sense in banning PVC windows in Planning permission

muffler

greenoverred wrote: »

but the window companys tell me they are high maintenance and would have to be painted every couple of years.

That would be the PVC window companies I take it?

mickdw

I dont agree at all with you guys about timber windows having little maintenance requirement.
They have been a nightmare over the last 20 years in general. For appearance only, they need painting every year not to mention the requirement to paint to keep them in suitable condition.
Hardwood front doors for example being produced by some of the top companies in ireland are known for serious problems re warping and Ive lost count of the number of doors Ive seen completely replaced due to warping. Absolute disaster imo.

justflow1983

mickdw wrote: »

I dont agree at all with you guys about timber windows having little maintenance requirement.
They have been a nightmare over the last 20 years in general. For appearance only, they need painting every year not to mention the requirement to paint to keep them in suitable condition.
Hardwood front doors for example being produced by some of the top companies in ireland are known for serious problems re warping and Ive lost count of the number of doors Ive seen completely replaced due to warping. Absolute disaster imo.

First of all, Hardwood doors and timber windows are very different animals, I wouldn't use them for comparison. Windows use smaller timbers less prone to warping and are a more highly engineered product. Hardwood doors have huge dimensional stability problems unless they're made with traditional methods that give the wood float.

I have never known a timber window to need yearly painting. Even untreated raw timber cladding will look fine for much longer than that. I don't know what the "last 20 years" has to do with it, I worked on a refurb where the original windows from the 1860s were still in place and still OK, we just added brush seals to them. Its a bit of maintenance every few years, just as you have on the rest of a house.

The "green" credentials of timber are fairly solid. Trees sequester carbon, using them in buildings acts as a way to lock it in somewhere for a long term. It depends on the timber source, but as timber windows perform better thermally, last longer (25 yrs is about your limit on uPVC), and are a natural material its a great option.

The problem with uPVC has to do with chemicals it offgasses. It depends on whether you care about breathing it really, since we breathe nasty stuff all day regardless. The movement to get rid of the stuff has more to do with the fact that these chemicals leach into groundwater for a long time after disposal. The chemicals mimic natural hormones and can cause developmental problems in aquatic animals and possibly humans as well who drink that water. That and they really do look cheap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety

greenoverred

muffler wrote: »

That would be the PVC window companies I take it?

No. Actually it was NorDan and rationel that told me this

S.L.F

greenoverred wrote: »

I dont mind wooden windows but the window companys tell me they are high maintenance and would have to be painted every couple of years.

Just to get the record straight with oil based paint you need to paint your windows every 5 to 7 years.

I'm going to assume the people who told you they have to be painted every year are salesmen...well how would they know?

mickdw wrote: »

they need painting every year not to mention the requirement to paint to keep them in suitable condition.

Can you show me something that says they have to be painted every year.

Now if you were talking about applying the likes of Sadolin Natur then it would once a year but Sadolin Natur is extremely easy to apply.

justflow1983 wrote: »

Hardwood doors have huge dimensional stability problems unless they're made with traditional methods that give the wood float.

I do know of one company that used to send doors out where they put silicone into the groove a panel goes into and their doors were always swelling up and they could not understand why this was happening.

I explained to them the reason why was they were not allowing for expansion, (so simple when you think about it) the result was one guy got let go for lying on his CV about having been trained properly and a bunch of carpenters were sent around to the various houses to remove the silicone

justflow1983 wrote: »

I have never known a timber window to need yearly painting. Even untreated raw timber cladding will look fine for much longer than that. I don't know what the "last 20 years" has to do with it, I worked on a refurb where the original windows from the 1860s were still in place and still OK, we just added brush seals to them. Its a bit of maintenance every few years, just as you have on the rest of a house.

I have worked with windows that are 250s old still working today, if they had been painted every year they'd be twice the size they are now.

I think the 20 years thing has to do with what they reckon uPVC windows look ok for.

justflow1983 wrote: »

That and they really do look cheap.

and tacky...don't forget tacky...:D

S.L.F

greenoverred wrote: »

No. Actually it was NorDan and rationel that told me this

Then it's not paint they were talking about.

***EDIT***

I'm going to assume they said their windows are high maintenence

greenoverred

S.L.F wrote: »

Then it's not paint they were talking about.

***EDIT***

I'm going to assume they said their windows are high maintenence

The Rational sales rep told me months ago that the wooden windows they had in stock needed maintenance at least every two years. I presume this maintenance is either varnish or paint. Whatever it is its not something I want to be doing.

The Nordan sales rep told me that the windows he had also needed to be varnished every two year. The painted ones last longer.

Both sales reps recommended the aluclad windows.

Oh by the way I am living near the coast and the Nordan rep said this was a big factor

justflow1983

greenoverred... Varnishing the windows is an afternoon's work, although if they're painted its even less hassle.

I sent a PM with a very honest window supplier that should give you any advice you need. If you're in a very exposed location, I can see how they'd recommend aluclad, the last thing they want is for you to have a bad experience and be put off timber windows in the future.

millriver

HI folks, Thanks for an Informative Session on this one. We have just gone for planning again and I have decided not to fight it with the planners on the basis that winning battles but loosing wars is a game for loosers. Best of luck to anyone who gets a planner/coco to be as informative as you all have been here. BTW We are going for wooden windows.

S.L.F

millriver wrote: »

BTW We are going for wooden windows.

I'm pleased to hear that