Three more years of "It was Bush's fault?"

JohnMc1

Pringles^IRE wrote: »

Have to say I'm with JohnMc1 here... seemed like an uneccesary thing to do.

Thanks Pringles^IRE.

JohnMc1

Overheal wrote: »

if you would like to continue this through PM I'd be happy but now youre just trainwrecking this thread.

You should have kept your mouth shut and not opened your mouth about me then.

You have nobody to blame for this but yourself.

Overheal

LostinKildare wrote: »

Ah, the latest talking point. Bush's supporters are in such denial about his disastrous regime that they've marched out their talking heads to make the breathtaking assertion that 9/11 didn't happen on his watch. From yesterday's Think Progress (with loads of source links):

The biggest brow-raiser is the part about Inheriting a recession from the administration that oversaw the largest economic expansion in decades

Let alone fine, she's right the 9/11 planning was a long time coming and because of this Economic Expansion they wanted to strike a blow at our evil western monster-civilization or some such rhetoric. But the Recession bit... Im still drawing a blank as to how she could argue that.

As for the TSA Joe I agree its nuts that last time I checked it still didnt have a head figure running it. Thats an Obama problem, not a Bush problem. Though I can hardly see how they can blame it on Bush. No more than Clinton can be blamed that the Bush Administration and its subsidiaries ignored indicators that pointed to the 9/11 attack. Similarly its Obama's onus to instate a functioning TSA is it not.

DeVore

If its only 3 years that the world is saying "it was Bush's fault" then we can consider ourselves very lucky...

DeV.

Overheal

DeVore wrote: »

If its only 3 years that the world is saying "it was Bush's fault" then we can consider ourselves very lucky...

DeV.

For many things, yes. Middle East situation being Prime One.

For other things not so much. Like TSA regulation and operation, and other such changes. Cleaning house/lengthy review of the TSA should have been on the top 10 to do list last Spring. To sit in December and say we didnt get around to it so Blame Bush is wrong.

Anonymous1987

In fairness it's already starting to change, Aghanistan is now Obama's war, Healthcare is Obama's primary policy. The bank bail outs seem to be shared by both administrations but the more time that passes the more it will likely be associated with Obama. Guantanamo bay while it is Bush's legacy is as much Obama's now and even his supporters acknowlege this in critising his failure to shut it down. In the new year I don't think the Obama administration will or can level much blame on the previous administration. Iraq will probably be an exception to this though.

Overheal

Yeah, but the Afghanistan thing I think will ultimately be good for his ratings, hence why they're holding the blue flag up high for the new Surge. Remember its the Afghan war that America wanted to begin with. Its the one the UN was behind us on. Meanwhile he's still distancing himself from the Iraq War as much as he's been able to.

Anonymous1987

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah, but the Afghanistan thing I think will ultimately be good for his ratings, hence why they're holding the blue flag up high for the new Surge. Remember its the Afghan war that America wanted to begin with. Its the one the UN was behind us on. Meanwhile he's still distancing himself from the Iraq War as much as he's been able to.

True, if Obama succeeds but if he loses it will be his failure not Bush's. Which supports what I was claiming, its Obama's war now and his administration can't blame the previous administration for its failure.

Pocono Joe

Overheal wrote: »

You make it sound like he worries about passing. Joe will slink away from this thread and crop up in a couple days with some other PoS.

Still its better than JohnMc1 firing links without discussion.

Actually if you put Joe and John together you'd have a single functioning Poster.

Sorry for taking a little time off, I have had a couple of bad days with intense pain. Was in a car accident recently. Someone ran a red light and came out into the highway right in front of me. Auto totaled and spent time in the trama center. Might have to have to get two disks removed from the neck and nerve deadened. I will finish my response when clear thinking returns... on some serious drugs and feel like a liberal right now, so I wouldn't dare attempt a lucid response.

Trouser_Press

Pocono Joe wrote: »

spent time in the trama center...feel like a liberal right now

But you're still spelling like a tea-bagger

Pocono Joe

LOL... right now eben dis makes cents to me.

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Sorry for taking a little time off, I have had a couple of bad days with intense pain. Was in a car accident recently. Someone ran a red light and came out into the highway right in front of me. Auto totaled and spent time in the trama center. Might have to have to get two disks removed from the neck and nerve deadened. I will finish my response when clear thinking returns... on some serious drugs and feel like a liberal right now, so I wouldn't dare attempt a lucid response.

so how are the Public Healthcare ammenities treating you, Joe?

Trouser_Press

Pocono Joe wrote: »

LOL... right now eben dis makes cents to me.

Bet this does too:

Trouser_Press

Overheal wrote: »

so how are the Public Healthcare ammenities treating you, Joe?

Huh! He is patriotically taking out his 17th mortgage on his condo to pay his private healthcare bills for this medical hiccup. Unlike Barack 'WHERE'S YOUR BIRTH CERT?' Obama, Joe's no Marxist Stalinist Trotskyite Kucinichist America-Hating fiend - bless him.

Pocono Joe

Overheal wrote: »

so how are the Public Healthcare ammenities treating you, Joe?

ObamaCare hasen’t kicked in, so the hospital room didn't have pay toilets installed yet in an attempt to keep health care deficit netural.

Shared a room with an old WWII veteran. I've got to say what some of these men went through, and to have kept their sanity, truly makes them the greatest generation. And not once did he blame WWII on GW Bush… he must have been getting senile.

Trouser_Press

Pocono Joe wrote: »

ObamaCare hasen’t kicked in

Oh flip - do you want us to start a collection for you? (**cough** it's hasn't)

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Shared a room with an old WWII veteran. I've got to say what some of these men went through, and to have kept their sanity, truly makes them the greatest generation. And not once did he blame WWII on GW Bush… he must have been getting senile.

Err.....do you want to start that sentence again?

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

For other things not so much. Like TSA regulation and operation, and other such changes. Cleaning house/lengthy review of the TSA should have been on the top 10 to do list last Spring. To sit in December and say we didnt get around to it so Blame Bush is wrong.

Uh, have you telephoned the office of your own senator, Jim DeMint (R-SC), to demand that he stop obstructing the confirmation of the new TSA head? He alone is responsible for holding up the appointment for months. Apparently he believes that unionization is a greater threat to the nation than terrorism.

You're his constituent. Do something about it.

Overheal

LostinKildare wrote: »

Uh, have you telephoned the office of your own senator, Jim DeMint (R-SC), to demand that he stop obstructing the confirmation of the new TSA head? He alone is responsible for holding up the appointment for months. Apparently he believes that unionization is a greater threat to the nation than terrorism.

You're his constituent. Do something about it.

Yes I've heard: Editorial

NYT wrote:

The attempted jetliner bombing has laid bare a welter of security shortcomings. One could be easily fixed if Senator Jim DeMint would drop his wrongheaded hold and allow the Senate to confirm a new chief for the Transportation Security Administration.



The Obama administration failed to offer a nominee until September, pleading the time was needed to find the right executive for the important post. Their belated choice, Erroll Southers, is a former F.B.I. agent who earned high marks when he served as chief of homeland security for California. He was easily approved by two Senate committees and heading for bipartisan confirmation — until the South Carolina Republican obstructed.


What’s the problem? Mr. DeMint says he won’t let the nomination go forward until he’s assured that a legal ban on T.S.A. workers unionizing will remain in place. Even after last week’s near-disaster over the Detroit airport, Senator DeMint clung to his union-bashing and knee-jerk warnings about the risks of security workers being allowed to collectively bargain.



He absurdly argued that “union bosses” will only worsen airline security (never mind that other federal workers and all manner of police forces responsibly exercise that right) while suggesting that President Obama has been out to “appease the terrorists.”



The Senate’s Democratic leadership isn’t doing any better when it comes to the nomination of Alan Bersin, an experienced homeland security veteran of the Clinton administration, to be the new commissioner of customs and border protection. This is another bulwark security agency that was without an administration nominee until the summer.



In this case, the issue is neglect, not ideology. Mr. Bersin’s confirmation has been sidelined by the contentious Senate agenda. By now, Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, surely realizes that he must make both positions an instant priority. If there’s any doubt, President Obama needs to forcefully remind him.



Even then, the jobs can’t be filled until the Senate returns — three weeks from now. The gap could be even longer if Senator DeMint won’t drop his destructive hold on Mr. Southers. That would make a cloture fight necessary in what should have been a quick and dynamic response to an essential public need.

Sorry, won't do it. I've seen what Unionization has done for Detroit and Ireland quite frankly. Not to mention what its done in previous years with the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Association.

I'd much rather the TSA ran smoothly and safely. Lets not have a terrorist attack on our watch because TSA workers were on Work to Rule or something.

On the flipside of this, who is Supporting TSA Unionization and Why?

LostinKildare

<cross-posted>

While you've got them on the phone, ask why DeMint voted against the TSA funding bill last June that contained $4 billion for screening operations, including $1.1 billion for explosives detection systems and $778 million for buying and installing the systems. Then hang up and ring Joe Wilson's office and ask the same.

108 Republicans voted against it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1209/GOP_blame_at_TSA.html

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

I'd much rather the TSA ran smoothly and safely.

Like it does now, union-free?

Please. Do you really truly believe that DeMint's objection is all about a sincere concern about the effect of unionization on security screeners? Why did he vote against TSA funding last summer? Why did he join with a handful of Republicans (including another one of your reps, Lindsay Graham) to vote against the 2007 bill implementing the 9/11 Commission's recommendations for strengthening homeland security?

http://washingtonindependent.com/72652/demint-voted-against-the-911-commission-bill#more-72652

Overheal

Theres Three sides to every tale though.

from a jump in your linked article,

Republicans set a record in forcing 52 roll call votes in one day last week, virtually shutting down the House, and they may try to wreak havoc again today if they don't get the amendments they want on an appropriations bill.

With the House set today to bring to the floor the $42.6 billion fiscal 2010 homeland security appropriations bill, Minority Leader John Boehner is again accusing Democrats of engaging in an intentional effort to stifle debate and to limit Republicans’ ability to attach amendments to spending bills.

“If they won’t allow us to debate amendments to cut spending on these appropriations bill ... it’s going to get ugly on the floor of the House,” Boehner told reporters today.

Boehner would not specify what it was Republicans planned to do in protest, only telling reporters: “We’ll see.”

Boehner launched his first effort to send the House into chaos Wednesday morning, calling for a motion to adjourn — one of the many delay-of-game moves the minority party can pursue.

The motion failed 308-96, with 75 members of Boehner’s own party voting in opposition.

Republicans kicked off their floor protest last week after Democrats cut back on Republican amendments to a major appropriations bill that funds the Commerce, Justice and other departments. House GOP leaders cried foul — and followed through.

“Democrats are trying to ramrod as much spending in this Congress as they can, as fast as they can,” Boehner said today.

Pocono Joe: You've probably been following the GOP more closely than any of us. Which appropriations is the Senator talking about here? What do/did they want on the appropriations bill that they werent getting?

Truthfully LiK I dont favor thinking of Dems and the GOP as Good and Evil. Thats the Wrong Mentality to have. I honestly don't believe any of them would wish to jeopardize or stall our Nation's security without due cause. Further to that end, I dont like where we are heading, accusing the representatives of South Carolina doing anything out of Spite.

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

Truthfully LiK I dont favor thinking of Dems and the GOP as Good and Evil. Thats the Wrong Mentality to have. I honestly don't believe any of them would wish to jeopardize or stall our Nation's security without due cause. Further to that end, I dont like where we are heading, accusing the representatives of South Carolina doing anything out of Spite.

Truthfully Overheal I don't like your tendency, when the going gets tough, to mischaracterize other posters' arguments in terms of a childish Good vs. Evil dichotomy. Did I say DeMint etc. are evil? No. Did I say he and others have acted as they did out of spite? No. So knock it off.

I'm a liberal Democrat and I rarely if ever agree with the Republican viewpoint for policy/ideology reasons, not because I think they're evil. If you are an independent, fine, but you don't get a medal for it.

If you don't want to consider why your reps have voted against measures funding/strengthening TSA, then don't. No need to attack me for presenting the question though.

Overheal

Uhm, I just said I Do Want to Consider.

Overheal wrote:

Pocono Joe: You've probably been following the GOP more closely than any of us. Which appropriations is the Senator talking about here? What do/did they want on the appropriations bill that they werent getting?

I cant consider without Information.

And you Didn't Raise the question exactly, you pointed a finger at me.

LostinKildare wrote:

Uh, have you telephoned the office of your own senator, Jim DeMint (R-SC), to demand that he stop obstructing the confirmation of the new TSA head? He alone is responsible for holding up the appointment for months. Apparently he believes that unionization is a greater threat to the nation than terrorism.

You're his constituent. Do something about it.

I'm sorry if I mis-characterized your debating points away from their intent.

You think he's holding it up. But me, from the articles you yourself linked though its apparently as much fault of the Obama Administration for waiting This Long (September 09) to begin the Nomination Process. Like I said, It should have been part of his Day One Agenda. Not day 226 as was the case.

LostinKildare

Overheal wrote: »

Uhm, I just said I Do Want to Consider.

I cant consider without Information.

And you Didn't Raise the question exactly, you pointed a finger at me.

Nah, I didn't point a finger at you -- for goodness sake I don't hold you responsible! Sorry I came on so strong. What I meant is that as a resident of SC you are in a privileged position of being able to hold accountable (or, if you prefer, simply question) the main players in this situation. If you want more information about why your reps blocked funding, as a constituent you can ring them and ask.

Overheal wrote: »

On the flipside of this, who is Supporting TSA Unionization and Why?

Obama and the Democrats, because TSA employees should have the same workplace rights as other federal employees (e.g., border control, customs, US Capitol police, firefighters, police, etc.--all of whom have responsibility for public safety). The TSA is in seriously bad shape due to high attrition and low morale:

A recent survey by the Office of Personnel Management found that 40 percent of TSA workers fear retaliation if they report suspicions of violations.
Colleen M. Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union, said in congressional testimony last month that TSA employees face a hostile work environment, that job assignments are based on favoritism, and that officers are routinely at the airports 11 to 14 hours a day and get paid for only eight hours because of split shift assignments. Staffing levels at some airports are so low that employees work extra shifts, without breaks, and work on their days off, she said
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/01/AR2009040103716.html

Some say that collective bargaining could even improve the TSA. The agency's attrition rates have been falling, but they're still high—voluntary attritions are at nearly 17 percent, compared with a little over 2 percent for other federal civilian employees. And their injury and illness rate is nearly six times that of those working other federal jobs. If they can negotiate better working situations, say advocates, then more skilled, educated workers will be attracted to the job—and stay there longer.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/11/20/obama-plan-to-grant-tsa-workers-more-union-rights-renews-debate-over-security-effect.html

kev9100

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Sorry for taking a little time off, I have had a couple of bad days with intense pain. Was in a car accident recently. Someone ran a red light and came out into the highway right in front of me. Auto totaled and spent time in the trama center. Might have to have to get two disks removed from the neck and nerve deadened. I will finish my response when clear thinking returns... on some serious drugs and feel like a liberal right now, so I wouldn't dare attempt a lucid response.

Hope your feeling better soon Joe. By the way, doesnt it feel good to be a liberal?:D


P.S Annoyingly, your spelling on drugs is still better than mine sober.:pac: