Lack of gritting - deadly, outrageous and unacceptable.

Capt'n Midnight

They were gritting the outer ring road in Lucan at 8pm today

baalthor

As I mentioned here, the NRA have expressed concern that the country is running low on grit ...

parsi

Zoney wrote: »

Fair enough point, but I'm just saying I don't think the lack of gritting on major routes is due to this because it's not like the councils are off gritting backroads or estates. It would appear some councils are not gritting at the moment, full stop.

I get ya...

steph1

baalthor wrote: »

As I mentioned here, the NRA have expressed concern that the country is running low on grit ...

And isn't about time that somebody expressed 'concern' I think we are all concerned about the road conditions and the safety of people who use them. I am a person who drives for a living (taxi) and I have been seriously curtailed in my work these last few days because of road conditions and I'm not talking about back roads or out of the way places. Some of the main roads in and out of town are in a bad way and have not been gritted regularly.

BrianD

AlekSmart wrote: »

Interestingly enough,Cookie_Monster,the Irish Local Authorities recieved a substantial upgrade of their equipment following a "Big Freeze" a couple of years back.
It was well thought out in that it focused on purchasing up-specced vehicles and multi-purpose demountable gritting equipment which alows for maximum flexibility for minimum cost.
Most Local Authorities now have snow-plough blade attachments to bolt onto the 4WD trucks.

However,in true Gaelic style,having splashed out on all of this desirable mechanical stuff,our Local Authorities now appear to have shag-all money to operate the things...The story of modern Ireland in a nutshell.

I have passed by numerous council yards and have seen the demountable gritters and detachable snowblades sitting in their inventories. There is no shortage of equipment. Every council most have budgeted for a number of days of winter conditions where this equipment and the staff that they already pay would be called into use. In most years they probably don't use it but this year those few days budgeted are being called in on the one block.

Personally, I don't believe that it is down to a lack of equipment, manpower or budget. It is public service inefficiency and poor management that we all end up paying for.

Not to knock the public service without questioning the private sector. Who is responsible for the gritting of the sections of road that are tolled. How are these sections comparing with non-tolled parts of the national highway? When I use the M1, you can't help but notice the large signs stating that it's the "M1 operated by ..." Are they responsible for the upkeep of the road surface? If they aren't, will they be turning around and suing councils or the government for not keeping the road open and the tolls coming in?

Lollymcd

On the question of gritting footpaths, should individual homeowners be responsible for the footpath directly outside their house as is the case in America? This would make getting out on foot much easier!

spongeman

Bottom line is the councils are not doing the job that they are paid to do.

They have not gritted the roads properly or at all. I have been from Kildare to Dublin on multiple return journeys and its very obvious that they just do not care. The same conditions exist.

They could'nt be bothered.

Victor

Se the attached photo. It is from Cork the week before Christmas on a main suburban road. The white material is not snow or ice, but salt (with no grit). They even had an inch of salt on one of the neighbour's front walls.

Meanwhile, the council bought the house next to my parent's last year and renovated it for a disabled woman and her sister. They re-did the driveway, which now drains onto the footpath that is recessed below road level, which means it can't drain. The neighbour seems to have spent the week before Christmas defrosting the can with kettles of water, which subsequently froze on the driveway and footpath. It rained Christmas morning and unsure as to whether there was still ice, I put one foot forward to check ..... the next thing I remember is being interrogated by the triage nurse in CUH and spend the night in hospital, suffering concussion and a badly sprained shoulder.

BrianD wrote: »

Not to knock the public service without questioning the private sector. Who is responsible for the gritting of the sections of road that are tolled. How are these sections comparing with non-tolled parts of the national highway? When I use the M1, you can't help but notice the large signs stating that it's the "M1 operated by ..." Are they responsible for the upkeep of the road surface? If they aren't, will they be turning around and suing councils or the government for not keeping the road open and the tolls coming in?

AFAIK, the toll operators are responsible for all road maintenance for the duration of their concession. This to encourage them to build things properly in the first place.

HonalD

Lollymcd wrote: »

On the question of gritting footpaths, should individual homeowners be responsible for the footpath directly outside their house as is the case in America? This would make getting out on foot much easier!

I believe that one is responsible!

HonalD

Victor wrote: »

Se the attached photo. It is from Cork the week before Christmas on a main suburban road. The white material is not snow or ice, but salt (with no grit). They even had an inch of salt on one of the neighbour's front walls.

Meanwhile, the council bought the house next to my parent's last year and renovated it for a disabled woman and her sister. They re-did the driveway, which now drains onto the footpath that is recessed below road level, which means it can't drain. The neighbour seems to have spent the week before Christmas defrosting the can with kettles of water, which subsequently froze on the driveway and footpath. It rained Christmas morning and unsure as to whether there was still ice, I put one foot forward to check ..... the next thing I remember is being interrogated by the triage nurse in CUH and spend the night in hospital, suffering concussion and a badly sprained shoulder.

Sorry to hear that mate. Hope you're feeling better.:)

recedite

pork99 wrote: »

That's what happens when one votes to put a collection of village idiots and petty criminals in charge of the country.

The various Ministers are doing their utmost during a difficult time of international recession, and this sort of unhelpful comment can only come from someone with no experience of management.

road_high

recedite wrote: »

The various Ministers are doing their utmost during a difficult time of international recession, and this sort of unhelpful comment can only come from someone with no experience of management.

What a joke. I'd like to think you were being sarcastic but I think you are being serious. East of the country grinds to a halt after an already prolonged cold spell. And guess what, our esteemed Minister for Transport is away and not contactable. How's that for doing one's upmost...all the while on over 200k a year plus all the perks that equate to us peasants yearly income in most instances.

Capt'n Midnight

Has anyone compared the increased costs in A&E with the savings on not gritting ?

recedite

mfitzy wrote: »

our esteemed Minister for Transport is away and not contactable.

OK but surely he is entitled to his holidays like everyone else. Minister Gormley is the one who has been officially tasked with dealing with the big freeze. He and the Taoiseach have made numerous TV and radio appearances explaining exactly how much salt is left, but the bad weather all over Europe has caused a supply & demand issue which is what the ordinary punter does not understand. Combine that with the cutbacks to the public sector workerforce which is expected to apply the salt every night and day. Loaves and fishes springs to mind.

ardmacha

OK but surely he is entitled to his holidays like everyone else.

He has chosen a very responsible job, which is very well paid out of public funds. With that choice comes some limitations on your freedom to feck off on holiday, although people in less responsible jobs may well have that freedom.

ArmaniJeanss

ardmacha wrote: »

He has chosen a very responsible job, which is very well paid out of public funds. With that choice comes some limitations on your freedom to feck off on holiday, although people in less responsible jobs may well have that freedom.

He's away at his daughters wedding. I don't think it matters what his salary is, he is 100% entitled to be present for all that of that ceremony and the days preceding it.

KenHy

Would it actually make any difference were he in the country at the moment? Unless you think that Noal Dempsey can magically produce gritted roads by his very presence alone, than no it wouldn't. No purpose is to be served by making him miss his daughters wedding/preplanned holiday or whatever he chooses to spend his free time at.

pork99

recedite wrote: »

The various Ministers are doing their utmost during a difficult time of international recession, and this sort of unhelpful comment can only come from someone with no experience of management.

I think you will find that they are the WORST GOVERNMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE.

We're bankrupt. Not even Dev achieved that with his spastic scheme for economic warfare against the UK - a country we were economically dependent on.

This shower of cretins will have the IMF in 'ere long.

So there.

Stark

Eh, where were you when Haughey was Taoiseach?

recedite

Our budget deficit has been brought about by a foreign international credit crunch and an international slump in the housing market meaning low tax revenues coming in. Also a lot of private sector businesses have failed to pay sufficient tax, ie. they paid less than last year. This is why the money wasn't there to stockpile salt and pay for the council workers.
The Ministers have shown they know exactly whats going on, and how to ration out the available salt for maximum efficiency.
The last thing we need now is some eejit calling for instability and a change of government.

foggy_lad

gormley was quoted on the news as saying nobody should worry about being sued for having cleared their paths and driveways around their houses/businesses so he must have some control over the courts to be able to guarantee this?

BostonB

I don't get it. One minute they say they can't grit, then they say they have gritted and are running out of a years supply in a few weeks.

Sorry but thats BS. There simply isn't as much gritting going on as there usually is in milder weather. Either they never had the grit, or don't have the resources (or desire) to spread it.

I think some areas are better gritted than others. But in many areas they just didn't grit.

slimjimmc

BostonB wrote: »

I don't get it. One minute they say they can't grit, then they say they have gritted and are running out of a years supply in a few weeks.

Sorry but thats BS. There simply isn't as much gritting going on as there usually is in milder weather. Either they never had the grit, or don't have the resources (or desire) to spread it.

I think some areas are better gritted than others. But in many areas they just didn't grit.

It's salt they're running out of, that's the stuff that melts the ice and keeps roads clear whereas grit is just crushed stone which doesn't melt ice, just gives a bit more traction. Grit is readily available from local quarries but is only of benefit for about an hour or so until it is squashed into the ice or dragged off by tyres. Grit is even less desirable for use on motorways because it forms marbles which get thrown up by vehicle tyres in a similar way to roads dressed with loose stone chippings.

What the councils are saying is that they have very limited salt supplies and this is being rationed to keep motorways and other national primary routes reasonably clear. If there is any left over it might be used on lesser roads but not to the detriment of the major routes. The last thing they want is for the salt to run out and have major routes closing before the next shipment comes in.

fuelinjection

This "country grinds to a halt" complaining is starting to annoy me.

The rest or Europe with their superior civilisation and better Governments is in heap at the moment, planes sliding off runways, cross-border motorways shutdown and general mayhem.
Even the Germans have hundreds of car accidents on the ice. The differnece with Irish weather has always been the amount of moisture we get - rain in the winter. Rain/Fog freezes here at noight and turns into black ice in which winter tyres and 4-wheel drives are useless.
Our European brothers have winter tyres and grit which is fine as they get a lot less mo
moisture and black ice. This weeks black ice has just shown how they can cope with the same conditions we are used to... which is badly.

pork99

Stark wrote: »

Eh, where were you when Haughey was Taoiseach?

Very very hard to be even worse than Haughey's governments but somehow they've managed it

BostonB

slimjimmc wrote: »

It's salt they're running out of, that's the stuff that melts the ice and keeps roads clear whereas grit is just crushed stone which doesn't melt ice, just gives a bit more traction. Grit is readily available from local quarries but is only of benefit for about an hour or so until it is squashed into the ice or dragged off by tyres. Grit is even less desirable for use on motorways because it forms marbles which get thrown up by vehicle tyres in a similar way to roads dressed with loose stone chippings.

What the councils are saying is that they have very limited salt supplies and this is being rationed to keep motorways and other national primary routes reasonably clear. If there is any left over it might be used on lesser roads but not to the detriment of the major routes. The last thing they want is for the salt to run out and have major routes closing before the next shipment comes in.

What ever they usually use but haven't this time.

BostonB

fuelinjection wrote: »

This "country grinds to a halt" complaining is starting to annoy me.

The rest or Europe with their superior civilisation and better Governments is in heap at the moment, planes sliding off runways, cross-border motorways shutdown and general mayhem.
Even the Germans have hundreds of car accidents on the ice. The differnece with Irish weather has always been the amount of moisture we get - rain in the winter. Rain/Fog freezes here at noight and turns into black ice in which winter tyres and 4-wheel drives are useless.
Our European brothers have winter tyres and grit which is fine as they get a lot less mo
moisture and black ice. This weeks black ice has just shown how they can cope with the same conditions we are used to... which is badly.

I think the point is they usually grit more than they have this time.

Thats the only comparision I'm interested in.

fuelinjection

BostonB wrote: »

I think the point is they usually grit more than they have this time.

Thats the only comparision I'm interested in.

good point ! :cool:

foggy_lad

seems to be a major thaw on in parts of the country maybe ireland can avoid resembling iceland!

Lollymcd

I wonder will Batt O'Keefe reverse his decision to close schools until Thursday?

Mr. Presentable

gally74 wrote: »

add in unions too!!!

if they were still collecting rubbish it would nt be done either,

one word, privatise it

Maths not a strong point

Tommo119

The fact is its the same in a lot of countries, here in UK roads haven't been gritted at all properly, in fact we dig out the salt and then sell it off abroad. Gordon Brown and co. are using the current cold snap to try and earn brownie points for the next election, when peoples lives and limbs are at risk. Pathetic really.

BostonB

foggy_lad wrote: »

seems to be a major thaw on in parts of the country maybe ireland can avoid resembling iceland!

Seems like it alright.

BostonB

BostonB wrote: »

I think the point is they usually grit more than they have this time.

Thats the only comparision I'm interested in.

Not that I entirely believe anything SIPTU say, but in the current issue of SIPTU Liberty Online it has the following...

Liberty Online has learned that Dublin City Council, in its efforts to make savings, cut back on its order of salt reserves late last year on the grounds that its supplies had not been used up over previous winters. And before the frost arrived council workers were informed that there would also be a reduction in the numbers of vehicles and crew in the emergency fleet used for road gritting.

I don't know if this is true. But it certainly would explain the reduction in gritting activity that I saw compared to previous years.