Moderator Performance (was Mods not Gods)

Podman

I didn't mean to make it sound "work-y".
"Bullying in the workplace" is already an accepted phrase (unfortunately), and I didn't want to be misunderstood, or seem like I was talking about anyone specifically. Particularly since possible corruption in higher ranks is such a very sensitive subject.

Kinetic^

Mods not gods...LOL.

1 for your kind...users not abusers!

/gets coat

muffler

Podman wrote: »

So who moderates the Moderators?

You won't have to search for long in the Helpdesk or Feedback to find complaints about certain Moderators being heavy handed, usually in favor of their own arguments or personal friends. It's not always easy to PM someone if you think they hold a grudge.

There should be a performance review of Moderators and Administrators every few months, too many complaints and they get the boot. What do you think?

You're here for all of 2 days and looking to change the planet.

Good luck with it.

votejohn

muffler wrote: »

You're here for all of 2 days and looking to change the planet.

Good luck with it.

is that not an example of trolling?

Podman has some good ideas!

Conor

Amalgam wrote: »

Would some sort of meta-moderation work?

I get the feeling it has been tried here before though.

There is meta-moderation of sorts in that mods who attract legitimate complaints via Help Desk will get taken up on it by CMods/Admins.

If you want automated meta-moderation where some sort of voting mechanism can be used to rate moderator actions then it gets very tricky to implement for the following reasons:

• Many moderator actions are wholly or partly invisible to regular users. For example, you can't see the posts they deleted and you can't see the previous revisions of posts they edit. Would it be fair to only meta-moderate the visible bits?
• Some decisions will be massively unpopular yet required to protect the site. For example, "XYZ Ltd are scamming barstewards" will get removed and people will be annoyed because a) they believe that XYZ Ltd are scammers and b) they believe it's in the public interest that it stay up. You'd then have to adjudicate on the "fair" meta-moderation and the "unfair" meta-moderation and then you're essentially back to square one.
• Engineering the system to protect it from abuse by axe-grinders is quite difficult. In fact, the subjects of the moderation are the most likely to use the meta-moderation system and hence I suspect most if not all moderator decisions would end up with a net negative rating.

Personally, I think the moderation of the moderators is a problem best solved socially and not technically. Some complaints are justified and some just boil down to "I broke the rules but I think the rules shouldn't apply to me". The only way to distinguish between the two is to have a human adjudicate on it. That function is currently filled by the CMods and Admins and works most of the time.

muffler

votejohn wrote: »

is that not an example of trolling?

Nope.

votejohn wrote: »

Podman has some good ideas!

He could have although I havent seen anything new yet but I fail to see why he had to register a second account to start this thread.

Podman

Nope.

..

fail

biko

Here less than a month and already a gripe OP?

Edit Ah, beaten to it by muffler I see

star-pants

muffler wrote: »

but I fail to see why he had to register a second account to start this thread.

I too am curious at this - I don't see the point precisely.

Regarding moderating mods - there is a system in place.
Mods > CMods > Admins > God
thus showing we are indeed not God.

If there are issues that can't be solved with the mod, it's taken to cmod, if it can't be sorted there, admin.
Most of the mods/admins wouldn't have these volunteer jobs if they just took the mick. IF one or more of them do start acting the idiot then someone will step in and sort them or get rid of them.

Helpdesk is here for a reason.
A lot of people like to throw the 'free speech' line, X mod won't let me say Z boo hoo. A lot of people aren't happy with being banned or infracted but most of them usually deserve it.
IF they don't - it's not like they can't appeal, they can and do. And if it's deemed they were right in appealing, it's turned over.

If there are legitimate complaints about a mod then something will be done, we don't just turn a blind eye to it. If a mod comes into one of the forums I mod and acts like a twit, I'll infract/ban. It's not like mods get special treatment.

gandalf

votejohn wrote: »

is that not an example of trolling?

Podman has some good ideas!

He is not trolling at all, he is asking a legitimate question. Why set up the separate podman account to just make these complaints. Can they not use their existing account? If not why not, have they been banned? Is this whole thread being directed at specific mods that they have a personal problem with?

This person does not read like a new user with issues with boards, they sound like someone who has been on here a while and if that is the case then they should be posting using their more established account if they want to be taken seriously.

Nevyn

star-pants wrote: »

Regarding moderating mods - there is a system in place.
Mods > CMods > Admins > God
thus showing we are indeed not God.

Which one cos I bet it's Odin.

star-pants

Thaedydal wrote: »

Which one cos I bet it's Odin.

Regular or Marvel?

Podman

gandalf wrote: »

Is this whole thread being directed at specific mods that they have a personal problem with?

Obviously not, unless you can show otherwise?

Many people have made positive contributions to the thread, while others would like to see it go off topic, degenerate into argument and be closed.
I wonder why?

Also, where does it say you can't have more than one account?

gandalf

Why use a new account when you obviously have been a member here longer than two days?

star-pants

Podman wrote: »

Also, where does it say you can't have more than one account?

Where did someone say you couldn't?
In general people have one account, simple. No particular reason for a second account - why would there?
*most* people who have a second account do so to troll / circumvent a ban / generally not good reasons.

So if you have a regular account/are a regular user - why would you feel the need to create a new separate account just to start this thread? By doing so you instantly create suspicion amongst readers.

I am star-pants, no matter what I say on boards I remain me, I've never seen a reason to not.

I'm not giving out btw - but merely explaining why people have focused on the fact you've used this new account for an important purpose.

Podman

star-pants wrote: »

Where did someone say you couldn't?
In general people have one account, simple. No particular reason for a second account - why would there?
*most* people who have a second account do so to troll / circumvent a ban / generally not good reasons.

So if you have a regular account/are a regular user - why would you feel the need to create a new separate account just to start this thread? By doing so you instantly create suspicion amongst readers.

I am star-pants, no matter what I say on boards I remain me, I've never seen a reason to not.

I'm not giving out btw - but merely explaining why people have focused on the fact you've used this new account for an important purpose.

Well, again, there is no particular reason, other than I just felt like it. And since I haven't made a second one to troll or circumvent a ban, I should be left alone about it.

I'm glad you see the thread topic to be an important one.

votejohn

gandalf wrote: »

He is not trolling at all, he is asking a legitimate question. Why set up the separate podman account to just make these complaints. Can they not use their existing account? If not why not, have they been banned? Is this whole thread being directed at specific mods that they have a personal problem with?

This person does not read like a new user with issues with boards, they sound like someone who has been on here a while and if that is the case then they should be posting using their more established account if they want to be taken seriously.

Gandalf, your missing the post that I quoted

"You're here for all of 2 days and looking to change the planet.

Good luck with it."

there was no question there for Podman, i just thought it seemed like the post served to do nothing except perhaps entice an argument.

Nevyn

star-pants wrote: »

Regular or Marvel?

DC treats gods a lot better then praise stan lee publishing house.

danash

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Also: Evidence or GTFO.

Thirdly: If any mod is found abusing their power the admins are not long in talking to them. I have seen it happen.

Fourthly: If you do not wish to pm a mod the Cmods are their to review the case for the very reason you mention. There's a whole food chain there.

It's very hard to link to evidence when the Mods delete it immediately....

o1s1n

danash wrote: »

It's very hard to link to evidence when the Mods delete it immediately....

Mods don't delete 'evidence'. They delete crap/nonsensical/libellous threads/posts. And to add to that, these are only soft deleted. They still remain visible to other moderators of that forum.

So if someone is trying to be a 'god mod' and cover their tracks after committing evil, nefarious acts, they'll be spotted very quickly.

gandalf

votejohn wrote: »

Gandalf, your missing the post that I quoted

"You're here for all of 2 days and looking to change the planet.

Good luck with it."

there was no question there for Podman, i just thought it seemed like the post served to do nothing except perhaps entice an argument.

If you look at mufflers post after this

He could have although I havent seen anything new yet but I fail to see why he had to register a second account to start this thread.

Then you will see that it was.

The questions stands, why set up a new account to ask the question if you already have an account?

And if the response if "because I can" then don't complain if we do not take this thread or any others that this user participates in the frivolous manner that the OP does to their account.

ynotdu

Just on the point of new members(not reregs)Well IMO their post should be treated as importantly as someone who has been here since day one.

I also think they should be moderated more lightly than experianced posters,I accept that is slightly contradictory:),Their posts are as valid as anyone else but they are only on the (Long:D)road to getting a grip on how boards operates.

Happy New year to ALL My readersMy reader!:)

gandalf

ynotdu wrote: »

Just on the point of new members(not reregs)Well IMO their post should be treated as importantly as someone who has been here since day one.

Oh I agree with you 100%. The problem is when you have someone like the OP who has re-regged a new account to whinge then you make it more difficult for new members because you will have people considering are they really a new member or just another poster who doesn't have the fortitude and backbone to post using their normal account.

Podman

gandalf wrote: »

If you look at mufflers post after this

He could have although I havent seen anything new yet but I fail to see why he had to register a second account to start this thread.

Then you will see that it was.

That's not a question, it's a comment.

gandalf wrote: »

Oh I agree with you 100%. The problem is when you have someone like the OP who has re-regged a new account to whinge ..

You obviously don't agree 100% or you wouldn't have said

gandalf wrote: »

.. don't complain if we do not take this thread or any others that this user participates in the frivolous manner that the OP does to their account.

(apologies if I got this out of context, I had to fill in some blanks in your sentence)

I've already answered the query twice anyway, and if your that bothered you can read the thread, if your not bothered then don't go on about it pretending like you are.

gandalf wrote: »

.. you make it more difficult for new members because you will have people considering are they really a new member or just another poster who doesn't have the fortitude and backbone to post using their normal account.

Your clutching at straws here..
How exactly does having a second account make it more difficult for new members?
Do you think that personal insults, antagonizing behavior and provocation will encourage new members?
Or, do you just not like where this thread might be going?

With regards to a dual account, I'm not the first and I won't be the last to have one. I may decide to cancel one or another account at some point in the future, that choice is mine, I might decide to send a few emails to selected people but I won't be asking anyone's permission. I still consider myself a new poster, as I have only been around for 9 months, including taking 4 months out.
I am responsible for what I say, regardless of what account I use to say it. Hundreds of people on this site can see the dual account details, nobody is really breaking any new ground by repeating the fact over and over and over and over again. I'm sure there's a thread for whingers, go there instead of trolling this one.

muffler

Podman wrote: »

I'm sure there's a thread for whingers, go there instead of trolling this one.

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

I have read this thread and I still see no valid reason offered by you for creating a second account and posting what seems to no more than a thread to whinge. You have offered up no constructive comments.

You also post with an air of arrogance which will get you really, really far on this site.

Podman

muffler wrote: »

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

I have read this thread and I still see no valid reason offered by you for creating a second account and posting what seems to no more than a thread to whinge. You have offered up no constructive comments.

You also post with an air of arrogance which will get you really, really far on this site.

very constructive

DeVore

Set My People Free!!!!



The soccer forum is probably our most severely moderated forum, and certainly our most complained about in terms of feedback over the year and yet when we ran a survey there only recently, it turned out that the majority of people actually felt the mods were bang on.

Boards grows, that means more people come here and stay here then leave. If you want anarchy, there is 4chan ... this is Boards. This is how we do things. Suggest some alternative and I'll consider it but until then... there are other discussion sites you can use if our moderation system offends.

Oh and as for your "second account", it simply shows a lack of integrity and belief in your own opinions.

DeV.

tallaght01

DeVore wrote: »

Oh and as for your "second account", it simply shows a lack of integrity and belief in your own opinions.

DeV.

It is indeed that serious.

Podman

DeVore wrote: »

Set My People Free!!!!
.....
Boards grows, that means more people come here and stay here then leave. If you want anarchy, there is 4chan ... this is Boards. This is how we do things. Suggest some alternative and I'll consider it but until then... there are other discussion sites you can use if our moderation system offends.

Don't get me wrong here, this isn't an attack of boards, its a discussion about how to reduce the occurrence of a few bad decisions. I'm happy to see that issues are already dealt with, but I wonder how many thread arguments should escalate so far in the first place. I understand people disagree in threads, but anger, for example, won't make it any better. It's up to every poster to realize that.

Already a few ideas/contributions have come to the surface from this thread (#1, #20/1, #23, #28, #32, #37, #41), the fact that they are already in place shouldn't mean we all stop trying, it's a testament to you guys obviously knowing your stuff.

There has been some good and some bad feedback so far, the bad feedback varies from constructive criticism, to (unfortunately) negative comments destructive to the thread flow, getting personal on occasion. The positive posts within the thread are self evident.

DeVore wrote: »

Oh and as for your "second account", it simply shows a lack of integrity and belief in your own opinions.

DeV.

After some more checking today, I did see some rules of etiquette that apply to everyone here...
-- Duplicate accounts are not permitted - if you require a duplicate account, please PM one of the admins to discuss it.
I never saw this rule before today, and nobody who posted about a dual account was able to link to it for me, so they obviously didn't know either! (arguing blind). As a result of finding this, I won't be posting as podman in the future. As far as I'm concerned, that'll be the end of it.
I will be continuing to post as chompy, with the same integrity and belief in my own opinions as I have in the past, and as you have read here.
-- Personal Abuse will not be tolerated – Attack the post and not the poster.
There are lots of posts in this thread that have little relevance to the original question, but instead I find personally offensive, misrepresenting and distracting from the topic, with some people spiraling off on their own, thinking I said something I didn't. How is that not considered trolling?

In guidelines it's suggested that people contribute in a constructive way, comment on the post not the poster, and that there be no backseat modding, personal abuse or being a dick. If anyone here suggests that these rules only apply to users and not to everyone, your reading them wrong.
Most people follow these rules and guidelines anyway, except for the 0.001% of course.
There are also a few valid posts here that don't veer any further away from the thread but address irrelevant issues that were brought up.

This thread was made to discuss ways of minimizing user dissatisfaction, to make people realize that "we're only people" and we make mistakes, no matter what our "position" in life is.
People like to think they're right all the time, that they can do no wrong. It's not true, none of us are infallible.

This thread should stay open, that's my vote.

Podman

RopeDrink wrote: »

... Even if you wanted to discuss something openly, there is the HelpDesk Forum - I try not to mention Feedback as I consider that as a place FOR Feedback, not debating situations or the actions of people on the website but sadly a lot of people choose to use it in that manner, of which has not yet been opposed so you can include that as well.

I (as podman) posted in the Feedback forum as I think his thread has relevance to everyone, from the super-admin down. It's important that every user has the opportunity to contribute their idea/suggestion, which isn't available in Helpdesk, only the op is able to reply there.