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40,000 to leave country before April 2010

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    #2
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Please add some comments of your own, don't just put up a link to a newspaper article.


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    #3
    belge boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭belge boy


    yep ireland is a country that exports people, thats just how it is. i think it will always be this way because since ireland is english speaking people can emmigrate to better countries-usa/uk/canada


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    #4
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    This is the single worst effect of the economic crisis, a graphic depiction of the failures of successive governments (mostly FF), that force the flower of our youth, the future of the country, abroad to build other nations. Had the country been managed in a halfway competent fashion we wouldn't be returning to this problem once again.

    Its the politicians that we should be putting on the boats, not our children. They see it as a pressure valve, if the best and brightest leave their own power becomes more entrenched. A hearty slap on the shoulder, buffoonery like telling emigrants its all a holiday (but don't forget to send the few pound home now); there's something terribly wrong with a system where the children of politicians build dynasties on the backs of the pain of the younger generation.


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    #5
    belge boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭belge boy


    stalin did something similar only in ireland they promote mass emmigration rather than mass deportations and killings


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    #6
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    belge boy wrote: »
    stalin did something similar only in ireland they promote mass emmigration rather than mass deportations and killings

    Look, he just invented Marxwins Law.


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    #7
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    belge boy wrote: »
    yep ireland is a country that exports people, thats just how it is.

    No longer will our children, like our cattle, be raised for export!


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    #8
    Porridgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Porridgemonster


    Why cant we put a cap on immigration into our country until we get on our feet again ? If so many people are emigrating,then what are these people coming for ? Or would this be classed as politically incorrect,racist,etc ?


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    #9
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Why cant we put a cap on immigration into our country until we get on our feet again ? If so many people are emigrating,then what are these people coming for ? Or would this be classed as politically incorrect,racist,etc ?

    Yeah, right. We say to the world, take all our people given that we f***ed up, but we are not going to allow you foreigners come here.


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    #10
    belge boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭belge boy


    Porridgemonster wrote: »
    Why cant we put a cap on immigration into our country until we get on our feet again ? If so many people are emigrating,then what are these people coming for ? Or would this be classed as politically incorrect,racist,etc ?

    I lol'd


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    #11
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Yeah, right. We say to the world, take all our people given that we f***ed up, but we are not going to allow you foreigners come here.
    The world is a lot better able to absorb Ireland's emigrants than Ireland is able to absorb the world's. I think the facts need to be further examined in that question but the concept of limiting free movement of labour from accession states until at least the Germans and Austrians open their borders in 2011 is not without its merits, although mainstream parties seem to be terrified of touching the issue.


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    #12
    belge boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭belge boy


    damn irish its about giving and taking. countries have been good to you now you have to give a little back its how things work.


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    #13
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    belge boy wrote: »
    damn irish its about giving and taking. .

    How bout you give it a rest so.


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    #14
    Porridgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Porridgemonster


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    The world is a lot better able to absorb Ireland's emigrants than Ireland is able to absorb the world's. I think the facts need to be further examined in that question but the concept of limiting free movement of labour from accession states until at least the Germans and Austrians open their borders in 2011 is not without its merits, although mainstream parties seem to be terrified of touching the issue.

    Thank you,that is the way I meant it,but I wasnt able to explain it in the same way.
    Im not an educated person,and the Celtic tiger certainly never made me any money,but I cant understand why we are still getting the amount of people coming here if we dont have the work for them ! So what is the attraction ? It cant possibly be the social welfare system can it ? Or the health service ? Surely they check the current economic climate of that country before they decide to board an airplane to it ?


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    #15
    musiknonstop
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭musiknonstop


    Porridgemonster wrote: »
    Why cant we put a cap on immigration into our country until we get on our feet again ? If so many people are emigrating,then what are these people coming for ? Or would this be classed as politically incorrect,racist,etc ?

    Why in the world would we need a cap on immigration? If there are no jobs for native Irish, why would immigrants want to come here to work?


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    #16
    population
    Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭population


    Porridgemonster wrote: »
    Thank you,that is the way I meant it,but I wasnt able to explain it in the same way.
    Im not an educated person,and the Celtic tiger certainly never made me any money,but I cant understand why we are still getting the amount of people coming here if we dont have the work for them ! So what is the attraction ? It cant possibly be the social welfare system can it ? Or the health service ? Surely they check the current economic climate of that country before they decide to board an airplane to it ?

    Immigrants are leaving in their droves. That really is not the biggest issue


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    #17
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    The world is a lot better able to absorb Ireland's emigrants than Ireland is able to absorb the world's...

    How do you measure that? It's a very simple statement of double standards. I have a dislike of the attitude that the Irish should enjoy preferential treatment in all sorts of ways simply because we are such charming and wonderful people. And I am outraged by the xenophobia articulated by some of my fellow-citizens, and fearful that it might be supposed to be the attitude of Irish people generally.

    The Irish Times piece is poor journalism. The writer slings together some disparate facts and estimates and pretends they amount to a coherent analysis. A sub-editor made a headline from
    The Economic and Social Research Institute predicts net outward migration to be 40,000 people in the year ending April 2010, up from 7,800 in the previous 12 months.
    Who do you think might be leaving the country? Our brightest and our best? Or might the figures include some of the brightest and the best who came here from Poland and Latvia?

    Perhaps we could introduce a new regime to reflect the view that native-born Irish are more deserving than immigrants: any Irish person who is unemployed should be allowed to claim a job that is currently being done by an immigrant [it could cause chaos in hospitals when unemployed bricklayers lay claim to the junior doctor jobs being filled by Pakistanis but, hey, nothing is perfect].


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    #18
    zootroid
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭zootroid


    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. As other countries begin to pull out of recession, they will become much more attractive and people will leave Ireland in their droves. There hasn't been mass emigration up until now as everywhere has been affected by the recession.

    Comparisons with the 80's are now becoming easier to make.

    David McWilliams also has an article in the independent about it:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-lifes-a-beach-for-irelands-latest-generation-exodus-1992378.html


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    #19
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    zootroid wrote: »
    I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. As other countries begin to pull out of recession, they will become much more attractive and people will leave Ireland in their droves. There hasn't been mass emigration up until now as everywhere has been affected by the recession.

    Comparisons with the 80's are now becoming easier to make.

    David McWilliams also has an article in the independent about it:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/david-mcwilliams-lifes-a-beach-for-irelands-latest-generation-exodus-1992378.html

    yay


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    #20
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    How do you measure that?
    By population. World > Ireland.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    It's a very simple statement of double standards.
    If thats what you want to see, thats what you'll see.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    And I am outraged by the xenophobia articulated by some of my fellow-citizens, and fearful that it might be supposed to be the attitude of Irish people generally.
    So would you rather suppress all discussion on the issue? Theres a name for that sort of behaviour, and its a considerably worse one than xenophobia.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    The Irish Times piece is poor journalism. The writer slings together some disparate facts and estimates and pretends they amount to a coherent analysis. A sub-editor made a headline from Who do you think might be leaving the country? Our brightest and our best? Or might the figures include some of the brightest and the best who came here from Poland and Latvia?
    It is clear that tens of thousands of Irish are leaving Ireland, and I'm not sure why the ESRI predicts a decrease anytime soon.
    When the figure of 65,100 emigrants is broken down, EU12 nationals (belonging to the 10 countries that joined the EU in May 2004) were the largest components, with 30,100, while Irish nationals were the second largest grouping with 18,400.
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Perhaps we could introduce a new regime to reflect the view that native-born Irish are more deserving than immigrants
    As far as any Irish government is concerned, of course the "native-born" Irish should come first. What a statement to make, we invest two decades of taxpayer money into educating these people, naturally its in our best interests to ensure that stays here. If I may segue for a moment, are you currently working here yourself? I seem to recall reading you had retired somewhere.


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    #21
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    belge boy wrote: »
    damn irish its about giving and taking. countries have been good to you now you have to give a little back its how things work.

    Not once have you ever said anything nice about Irish people on this forum. I've seen all of your posts, and every single one of them attacks Irish people.

    Ireland was one of the few to allow accession state members access. We have given back to Europe.

    If you hate Ireland so much, and the Irish people - Why do you still continue to post on an Irish forum?


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    #22
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    By population. World > Ireland.


    If thats what you want to see, thats what you'll see.


    So would you rather suppress all discussion on the issue? Theres a name for that sort of behaviour, and its a considerably worse one than xenophobia.


    So, eh, you're rejecting the article outright as factually incorrect, on the basis of... a gut feeling? Maybe some tea leaves? If you could bring some actual facts to the table that might help move the discussion along.

    So you're postulating a decrease in the number of emigrants overall in 2010. Again, what are you basing this on?


    As far as any Irish government is concerned, of course the "native-born" Irish should come first. What a statement to make, we invest two decades of taxpayer money into educating these people, naturally its in our best interests to ensure that stays here. If I may segue for a moment, are you currently working here yourself? I seem to recall reading you had retired somewhere.

    De... Dev?


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    #23
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Not once have you ever said anything nice about Irish people on this forum. I've seen all of your posts, and every single one of them attacks Irish people.

    Ireland was one of the few to allow accession state members access. We have given back to Europe.

    If you hate Ireland so much, and the Irish people - Why do you still continue to post on an Irish forum?
    i think he is just trying to upset other boardies , ignore him ,keep a stiff upper lip like us brits


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    #24
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    De... Dev?
    Eh I thought you spit on all newspaper articles, why are you posting in a thread where the first post consists entirely of a link to one.


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    #25
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Eh I thought you spit on all newspaper articles, why are you posting in a thread where the first post consists entirely of a link to one.

    What an illogical thing to say! :D


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    #26
    CamperMan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭CamperMan


    good stuff.. hopefully the 40,000 will be the sponging immigrants that are a constant drain on the welfare system!


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    #27
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    CamperMan wrote: »
    good stuff.. hopefully the 40,000 will be the sponging immigrants that are a constant drain on the welfare system!

    rabblerabble1251158120.jpg

    Rabble, Rabble, Rabble!

    :)


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    #28
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    By population. World > Ireland.

    That's a pretty dumb argument.

    By population. World > Any country in the world.


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    #29
    artful_codger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭artful_codger


    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    rabblerabble1251158120.jpg

    Rabble, Rabble, Rabble!

    :)

    they took our jerbs !


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    #30
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    artful_codger wrote: »
    they took our jerbs !

    tey derker doo!


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    #31
    mcaul
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭mcaul


    blueeyedboy wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1229/1224261353758.html?via=mr

    The OP Title reads like a hysterical headline from the evening herald and only when you read the articel do you see the real story.

    Its not 40,000 to leave from today til April. Its 40,000 leave from 1st April 2009 to 31st March 2010.

    IMO that's a good healthy figure of educated Irish people expanding their knowledge around the world. Some will stay abroad, many will return. Of the ones that return, some will set up in business and employ more people, others will contribute in other ways.

    Even in the heady days of the celtic tiger 20,000+ people moved abroad every year, but they were replaced by 60,000+ people from abroad moving here.

    Have think about how it works in the USA - live in Boston and a job offer comes from San Francisco 3000 miles away. You think nothing of moving within a week, so why the outcry here for essentially a similar journey?

    Fair play and good luck to anyone who is emigrating and hopefully we'll see you back sometime soon.


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