Fast Car for around €15k, any I've left out

fletch

Well after 3 years owning a Skoda Fabia vRS, it's time for a change in the new year. The Fabia has been brilliant, fast, economical, practical and individual but since I've started cycling to work, I'm lucky if I drive 50miles a week. Here is my criteria for my new car

• Budget: €15,000
• Fuel: Petrol
• 3/5 door hatchback/coupe
• Approx 200bhp+
• Must be a good handler
• Not too common

I have kind of narrowed it down to buying a RenaultSport Clio 197 but just want to make sure I haven't overlooked any contenders. Below are the cars I've considered.

Audi S3 - my budget wouldn't stretch to the new shape and the old shape looks very old now
BMW E46 M3 - for my budget I couldn't afford a great example and tax and running costs would just be too much for me to justify
BMW M Coupe - while I would love one, the lack of rear seats would annoy me
Fiat Panda 100HP - don't think 100hp is enough and my mam owns a Panda
Fiat 500 Abarth - out of budget
Ford Fiesta Zetec-S - 120bhp, again not enough
Ford Fiesta Zetec-C Moutune - none available in Ireland and I don't really have the time for a trip to the UK
Ford Focus MkI RS - potential contender but a bit too dated?
Ford Focus MkII ST - styling is a bit chav for my liking a 2.5ltr tax would annoy me
Honda Civic Type-R - bit too boy racery for me, also most examples have probably been thrashed
Honda S2000 - wildcard, only 2 seats and my budget would only get me an early example
Mazda 3MPS - epic power but just too bland, if I could find one with an Aero pack, I might consider but doubtful there are any in Ireland
Peugeot 207GTI - no comment
Opel Astra OPC - a bit too chavtastic
Opel Corsa OPC - again, styling wouldn't be to my taste, never a fan of Opels and how reliable can the engine be with so much power coming from a 1.6T.
Renault Megane Sport 225 - has potential but it would be the old shape which is starting to look old now that new shape is out
SEAT Leon MkI Cupra R - a strong contender however a little dated looking now
SEAT Leon MkII FR - couldn't live with that hideous dash
SEAT Ibiza Cupra 1.8T - again a little dated now and would have to go to UK to get one
Skoda Octavia MkII vRS 170/200 - no need for diesel and not keen on styling anyway
VW Golf GT170 - a bit too bland looking but sleeper. Again concerned with reliability of so much power from a 1.4
VW Golf GTI - waay too common but might consider a white 3 door with 18inch wheels.
VW Golf R32 - tax would sicken me, but I would love the v6 sound and 4 wheel drive, could be tempted
VW Lupo GTI - always wanted one when I was younger but a little underpowered now (125bhp)

So have I missed any??

colm_mcm

Mazda RX8?

fletch

colm_mcm wrote: »

Mazda RX8?

Hmmm good suggestion but I'm just not mad about them, drove one around Mondello and the complete lack of torque made it feel slow (I'm know it isn't though). Also I will probably only really be using the car for short journey's which I know is bad for the RX8.

colm_mcm

the 192 is pretty gutless, I hear the 231 is much better.

Surprised you don't have a RenaultSport Clio or a Lotus Elise on your list.

.Longshanks.

colm_mcm wrote: »

the 192 is pretty gutless, I hear the 231 is much better.

Surprised you don't have a RenaultSport Clio or a Lotus Elise on your list.

He said

fletch wrote: »

.........I have kind of narrowed it down to buying a RenaultSport Clio 197 but just want to make sure I haven't overlooked any contenders. Below are the cars I've considered......

Agree with the Elise suggestion

Cookie_Monster

Alfa 147 / GT

Dunno about the power in either though

The Recliner

colm_mcm wrote: »

the 192 is pretty gutless, I hear the 231 is much better.

People say that but it just isn't true, the 192 has a 5 speed gear box and the torque is at the higher range, if you don't change gears (and you don't have too) too much it has plenty of guts

The 6 speed gear box in the 231 lets it down in my opinion

You just need to drive them differently to normal cars

Henry Ford III

Impreza/Evo?

Quite chav but undeniably quick. Expensive to run.

fletch

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Alfa 147 / GT

Dunno about the power in either though

Alfas are a definite no-no

colm_mcm wrote: »

the 192 is pretty gutless, I hear the 231 is much better.

Surprised you don't have a RenaultSport Clio or a Lotus Elise on your list.

Driven both the 192 and 231 and neither appealed to me. Lotus Elise is definitely something I hadn't considered....off to carzone to have a look

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Impreza/Evo?

Quite chav but undeniably quick. Expensive to run.

Would love the performance but don't like their image.

colm_mcm

The Recliner wrote: »

People say that but it just isn't true, the 192 has a 5 speed gear box and the torque is at the higher range, if you don't change gears (and you don't have too) too much it has plenty of guts

I'm used to driving high revving MIVEC V6's and TBH the 192 was miles off even when revving the nuts off it.

Cookie_Monster

Link


Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class 200 CLK 200 KOMPRESSOR

maybe a bit much though

.Longshanks.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Link


Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class 200 CLK 200 KOMPRESSOR

maybe a bit much though

Aint they only 160bhp?

mickdw

TT quattro 1.8T 225bhp. Available at all prices now

niceirishfella

Boxster - get a decent one for 15k.

smash

Lotus Elise?

Tr1PoD

Volvo S60 T5 247BHP 0-60mph in 6.6sec

Very understated car. Likes to cruise around at low rpm but put your foot down and its a rocket.

Pretty cheap second hand but tax is expensive.

PirateShampoo

V6 Clios?

http://pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=293

BRM

It depends on how many miles you do per yr, I dont think your gonna get a 200+ BHP car that’s cheap to tax/run to be honest. 535d maybe a 2004 model with miles might be in that ballpark but its not exactly a coupe/HB.

Ive had my E46 M3 for 4 years now and although it’s expensive to run I don’t do much miles so its not that bad. Before getting the M I was looking at the GTI and Boxster S, both are good cars but different I dont think id still have either of them still if I had of bought one.

Im at the stage now where Im looking to change the M3 and to be honest its not an easy decision. If I was to sell it Id get about 15 grand and Id have to come up with another 20+K to afford anything near that performance.

My car just went over the 60K miles and I just got an inspection 2 so to me it feels brand new and the more I look around the less I want to sell it. If you want a petrol performance car nothing beats the M3 for the money but if your doing miles then a performance TDI is the only way and I think the BMWs lead the way in TDI performance.

.Longshanks.

BRM wrote: »

It depends on how many miles you do per yr, I dont think your gonna get a 200+ BHP car that’s cheap to tax/run to be honest. 535d maybe a 2004 model with miles might be in that ballpark but its not exactly a coupe/HB.

Ive had my E46 M3 for 4 years now and although it’s expensive to run I don’t do much miles so its not that bad. Before getting the M I was looking at the GTI and Boxster S, both are good cars but different I dont think id still have either of them still if I had of bought one.

Im at the stage now where Im looking to change the M3 and to be honest its not an easy decision. If I was to sell it Id get about 15 grand and Id have to come up with another 20+K to afford anything near that performance.

My car just went over the 60K miles and I just got an inspection 2 so to me it feels brand new and the more I look around the less I want to sell it. If you want a petrol performance car nothing beats the M3 for the money but if your doing miles then a performance TDI is the only way and I think the BMWs lead the way in TDI performance.

The OP said

fletch wrote: »

Well after 3 years owning a Skoda Fabia vRS, it's time for a change in the new year. The Fabia has been brilliant, fast, economical, practical and individual but since I've started cycling to work, I'm lucky if I drive 50miles a week. Here is my criteria for my new car..............

Mileage (& im guessing fuel consumption) aint really an issue

niceirishfella

Longshanks100 wrote: »

The OP said


Mileage (& im guessing fuel consumption) aint really an issue

..but road tax would be as the cars lying round a lot.:)

NewApproach

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/8-Series/840/200949196089359/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M3/M3-COUPE/200947195952020/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/www.ONYX/200933194904851/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/XK-Series/Series-X/200912192175055/advert?channel=CARS

sean1141

not a hatch or a coupe but a 2.8 v6 bora. can be got for a lot less that 15k but use the extra cash for a supercharger and remap and a few extra bits, breaks etc and you have a very fast sleeper! have the mk1 cupra r (fr tdi same body as cupra r) myself and i think they are way nicer looking than the s3 or golf. also very rare. having only ever seen 1 other cupra r in ireland!!

Matt Simis

NewApproach wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/8-Series/840/200949196089359/advert?channel=CARS

Id be offering a lot less for an 8 series in todays climate. Ticks most of the OPs boxes, but its an aquired taste and it generally would be best suited to someone handy with a spanner (though the late model 840s are not that different to the other M62 BMWs to maintain).

Dunno if the 5speed slushbox in the 840s would thrill after driving a DSG / modern auto though. I found the 840 too relaxed.

mullingar

Toyota Supra turbo?

Stunning car with Japanese reliability. Bullet-proof engine

Voodoomelon

NewApproach wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/8-Series/840/200949196089359/advert?channel=CARS

Who's the goon with the 850 badge?

fletch

mickdw wrote: »

TT quattro 1.8T 225bhp. Available at all prices now

Again, good suggestion, my budget would only give me a MkI version which looks dated in comparison to the new model and they're not very practical.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Link


Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class 200 CLK 200 KOMPRESSOR

maybe a bit much though

One of my least favourite cars on the road but thanks for the suggestion

betafrog wrote: »

Mini Cooper S?

Not the most reliable motor and a little girly. In saying that, exactly what I am looking for in terms of performance/handling.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

V6 Clios?

http://pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=293

They were in my search originally but if I decide to buy a 3.0ltr+, it will be an M3

niceirishfella wrote: »

Boxster - get a decent one for 15k.

Was never a fan of the looks and I don't like covertibles.

NewApproach wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/8-Series/840/200949196089359/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/M3/M3-COUPE/200947195952020/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/www.ONYX/200933194904851/advert?channel=CARS

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/XK-Series/Series-X/200912192175055/advert?channel=CARS

BMW 840 - one of my child hood dream cars...but the running costs. I don't mind doing a service myself but if something were to go wrong :eek:
Same kind of applies to the CL and XK

fletch

Tr1PoD wrote: »

Volvo S60 T5 247BHP 0-60mph in 6.6sec

Very understated car. Likes to cruise around at low rpm but put your foot down and its a rocket.

Pretty cheap second hand but tax is expensive.

Interesting proposition alright...but I will never need a family car and I believe they are not meant to be the best drivers car.

Haven driven a heavy diesel for the last 3 years, I really want something light and agile.

Economy is not a big issue as I am giving the vRS to the other half so we can still use that for long weekend spins down the country.

kuro_man

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200942195533975

TestTransmission

Hows about a DC5?Meant to be a great car,Im still undecided on the look myself.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Integra/DC5-Type/200953196374016/advert?channel=CARS

Cookie_Monster

jackncoke wrote: »

Hows about a DC5?Meant to be a great car,Im still undecided on the look myself.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Integra/DC5-Type/200953196374016/advert?channel=CARS

great looking car imo, but suffers similar image problems to the impreza

macnab

BMW M5??

Cyrus

to be fair the e46 m3 is miles ahead of most other things suggested, and id suggest a porsche boxster s would be up there aswell,

after that you are back to looking at hothatches, a mkv golf gti is the best of them and imo is a nicer car than a focus st,

an e46 m3 isnt too bad to run if you find one with a recent insp2 and you can stomach the tax,

however if you are worried about those costs id be sticking with something with the vag 2.0tfsi engine, pokey enough, cheap to tax and reliable.

Fizman

fletch wrote: »

Here is my criteria for my new car

• Budget: €15,000
• Fuel: Petrol
• 3/5 door hatchback/coupe
• Approx 200bhp+
• Must be a good handler
• Not too common

Opel Astra OPC - a bit too chavtastic

Mate of mine has a black 06' Astra OPC. I know where you are coming from with the chavtastic angle, but his certainly isn't as far as I can see. He has very nice 19" wheels on it too, and it's kept in top condition. Not a spec of dirt on it.

He's pondering getting a 320CD and is half thinking of putting his on the market for something close to your budget.

Would you defo rule out an OPC, or could you be swayed with the right one?

fletch

kuro_man wrote: »

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200942195533975

I'm 26, not 46!

jackncoke wrote: »

Hows about a DC5?Meant to be a great car,Im still undecided on the look myself.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Integra/DC5-Type/200953196374016/advert?channel=CARS

Hmmm are they all imports or can you get a genuine Irish car?

Cyrus

fletch wrote: »

I'm 26, not 46!
Hmmm are they all imports or can you get a genuine Irish car?

i think they are all imports, not sure tho

to be fair if you are concerned about image, unfortunately, the integra isnt going to cut the mustard

fletch

Fizman wrote: »

Mate of mine has a black 06' Astra OPC. I know where you are coming from with the chavtastic angle, but his certainly isn't as far as I can see. He has very nice 19" wheels on it too, and it's kept in top condition. Not a spec of dirt on it.

He's pondering getting a 320CD and is half thinking of putting his on the market for something close to your budget.

Would you defo rule out an OPC, or could you be swayed with the right one?

Don't think I could be swayed to an OPC....I had semi made my mind up on a Clio 197 but after reading a few suggestions here, I think I've a bit more test driving to do. Some cars I'd ruled out as I had kind of assumed they'd be out of budget.

I definitely want something individual, hence the Clio 197, I've only ever seen one other one while driving on Irish roads. It was the same with the Fabia vRS, saw about 5 others in total in the last 3 years.

fletch

Cyrus wrote: »

i think they are all imports, not sure tho

to be fair if you are concerned about image, unfortunately, the integra isnt going to cut the mustard

Agreed alright....every time I see one I assume its going to be some burberry wearing skanger egging for a race.

Cyrus

how does the 197 square up to the mkv golf gti in tests?

and surely the megane 225 is a better car than the 197 if you are happy to go with renault?

fletch

macnab wrote: »

BMW M5??

Again, another dream car, one of my all time favourite cars but I really don't need something so big.

Cyrus

Nice:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Renault/Megane/Coupe-RE/200918192663995/advert?channel=CARS

fletch

Cyrus wrote: »

how does the 197 square up to the mkv golf gti in tests?

and surely the megane 225 is a better car than the 197 if you are happy to go with renault?

Having driven both the 197 and Golf GTI, the gti felt a lot faster. However the 197 gets rave reviews everywhere for it's handling which is important to me. The GTI is just too common as well, I want something unique and understated.

The Megane just doesn't do it for me while the 197 does with it's low stance, wide arches, brembo brakes, rear diffuser etc. (see here for an example)

Mini-E

Id go for either an evo 8 or an e46 m3 if i was you.

Both fantastic cars and very fast. Evo 8 has cheaper tax and more practical, m3 still reasonably practical and very well built, nice interior compared to the evo. I think the newer evos look alot more civilised too.

guerito

Maybe a bit large for your requirements, but how about this

(And don't worry about the motor tax :pac:)

Ferris

Nissan Silvia (s15) or Skyline r34 GT-t. Neither compare to M3 but both would give you rwd and low tax.

Other than that I would get a nice clean evo or scooby in any colour but white.

Another option might be the s60r, 300hp and 4wd and a bit sportier looking than a t5, also a complete sleeper.

Cyrus

fletch wrote: »

Having driven both the 197 and Golf GTI, the gti felt a lot faster. However the 197 gets rave reviews everywhere for it's handling which is important to me. The GTI is just too common as well, I want something unique and understated.

The Megane just doesn't do it for me while the 197 does with it's low stance, wide arches, brembo brakes, rear diffuser etc. (see here for an example)

the gti gets rave reviews for its handling too

if you really want to stand out from the crowd thats fair enough, but there is a reason that the mkv gti is considered the finest hot hatch of its generation,

like you said a nice 3 door, in a good colour like white or laser blue with the 18s and maybe leather and its a very nice car

VolvoMan

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Link


Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class 200 CLK 200 KOMPRESSOR

maybe a bit much though

Mmmmmmm.....poverty spec!

I'm not only saying this as a Volvo fan, but I think an S60 T5 or R is certainly worth a look.

stealthyspeeder

Test drive whatever your going to get, my mates 172 was a right laugh, I'd say you'd do well with a 197. I have a 3 MPS and it was faster on the track (when it was stock) than all the 172, 182 Clios (even the modded ones). Strongly recomend it, would also recomend an Astra OPC, the looks arent for me but its great fun.

The MPS does have bland looks, but thats part of the appeal for me, Wolf in Sheeps clothing and all that!

Tea 1000

Vauxhall VX200? Rare as hens teeth, but essentially an Elise with a dash of added comfort. Or a dash of added speed if you find a turbo!
I'd second the Supra twin turbo suggestion. Actually makes more sense in many ways than an M3, but don't let the BMW fans hear that!
Hard to find a good one though. I'd go with the Megane if rarity is a factor over the Clio. Or there's always something like a good clean 330Ci. Or how about a 325i compact? Better handling than the coupe and as odd-ball as BMW's get!

Testament1

Have you ever thought about a Subaru Legacy B4 Twin-Turbo? Wouldnt have the same image problems as Imprezas and at 280bhp theres no shortage of power! Dont cost too much on petrol either. A mate of mine has one and at 100km/h they will cruise along at a bit below 3000rpm in 5th gear.

Gumbo

guerito wrote: »

Maybe a bit large for your requirements, but how about this

(And don't worry about the motor tax :pac:)

you got me tempted with that :eek:

Atomic Pineapple

this is a bit of an out there suggestion but you could look into the last generation of Rx7's (00 - 02)

The last generation had many refinements including a more reliable engine with stronger rotor tips, updated styling and a higher power rating of 300 PS.

They are extremely good handling cars and because they need a bit of minding they really only end up in enthusiasts hands as any chavs that get one end up killing them.

They can get better mileage than the rx8 too due to having a lot more torque.

Just thought I'd throw it in as an idea anyway