Lone-parent allowance may be cut, says Hanafin

Foxytocin

johngalway wrote: »

:mad:

Going on what I heard on the news last night, it's disgusting.

I'm not one, and I pay my tax, before I get jumped on. I'm also not a left wing loony.

The minister seems to expect lone parents to have gained a qualification while minding the kids, which isn't attainable for the majority I would say. Then when they reach secondary school age apparently they can fend for themselves/go down the mines (get a job).

One wonders if there'll be work then either.

Why not go the whole hog and kick the blind again, go and show some grit and take the medical cards off the pensioners too, might as well have a go at the carers as well.

None of these people can strike, easy political targets.

Sickening.

It's good to know some ordinary people (ie, in a couple, employed) feel like you do. I'm a single parent and some how, I've got to raise, feed, educate and care for (when they're not at school) two children, and I WAS utterly determined that my status as a lowly single parent wouldn't disadvantage them. It hasn't been easy. Their father won't contribute, so that's a pointless avenue. Up 'til now I was believing that eventually it would all become possible and do-able. I am really worried about their futures now. Maybe it will turn out that even by spending what little money i have extremely cautiously and sensibly, that I am in fact UNable to protect them from the reality that they are children from a single parent family.

I hardly ever post on this board but it was just really nice to see your post.

btw, I emailed mary hanafin to ask for a job. i probably ruined my chances though as I told her i would love the opportunity to become "attached" to a nice job working for the government.

Thanks........ it's nice to know that not everybody thinks that single parents are lower life forms.

bmaxi

randylonghorn wrote: »

You don't think cultural factors might play a role? ... a baby out of wedlock is a source of great shame to most Italian families.

Ireland used to have a similar culture and very few lone parents. We did, however, have Kerry babies, the Magdalene laundries, miscarriages induced by amateurs, a stream of girls going on 'holiday' to England, babies passed off as being their grandmothers' progeny, etc., etc.

I have no interest in getting into a debate as the level of payment which is appropriate for lone parents, but I certainly wouldn't want us to revert to that era.

One major difference between then and now is the availability of contraception. There is no excuse today for not availing of whatever form of contraception suits you but unfortunately the drink culture of our young people, plus the knowledge that someone else will pick up the tab, takes the fear of unwanted pregnancy out of the equation.

johngalway

Foxy,

I've seen the sacrifices lone parents have to make, not just to "get by" which is a relatively comfortable term, but just to "survive". I don't think I could do it, to be honest about it. Hat off to you and all other lone parents doing their best.

I'm not going to have a go at anyone else at all, no other sector or anything. I didn't think I could hate this Government any more than I did until I started hearing rumours about them "adjusting" LP. The foggy PC lingo, the pie in the sky crap that somehow by tightening the noose on people living on or ever so slightly above the bread line will somehow "improve" their lot.

My blood is boiling over it.

sold

randylonghorn wrote: »

You don't think cultural factors might play a role? ... a baby out of wedlock is a source of great shame to most Italian families.

Ireland used to have a similar culture and very few lone parents. We did, however, have Kerry babies, the Magdalene laundries, miscarriages induced by amateurs, a stream of girls going on 'holiday' to England, babies passed off as being their grandmothers' progeny, etc., etc.

I have no interest in getting into a debate as the level of payment which is appropriate for lone parents, but I certainly wouldn't want us to revert to that era.

I also don't want Ireland to revert to that era. But there are better ways to support lone parents than dishing out Money, Food Stamps, Cloths Stamps, Childcare, training, bi-weekly job seeker interviews, would target the needs better. As it stands I see too many girls on "lone parent" allowance who spend 3 nights a week drinking with their boyfriend AKA father of the child. I am 100% in favour of supporting a lone parent, but the support should be targeted, money is not the way to support and there is no trail as to where it really goes.

sold

see this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055782497

yellowlabrador

I was a single parent and always worked when I could. when my children were very small it was at times possible to find good childminders but very often I would have to give up my job because I wasn't happy with what happened to my children, even with registered child minders. Funny enough I had more problems when my children were teenagers. It seemed even more important to be available at home time and evenings. You need to be around and people forget that you are an only parent, there is no one else. I was a widow and my inlaws and close family weren't close by. It seems that as a single parent you just can't win, you are always to blame, yet we have to manage on one wage with no help. If you stay at home you're a scrounger, if you go out to work, you're selfish.
When times were good, up till last year, most single parents I know had little jobs and could retain their benefits, but those jobs have gone.
What is going to happen to the unemployment figures when they all sign on?

johngalway

sold wrote: »

see this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055782497

Just saw that 5 mins ago. Had a read, to be honest, I'd rather not read it again. I hope it stays fine for some who've made comments on it.

Permabear

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ynotdu

sold wrote: »

Finally the penny has dropped. The allowance should never have been introduced in the 1st place. Personally I think the biggest is are with the girls who become "lone Parents" to get the allowance and housing.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1230/1224261408872.html

Lone parent allowance is currently €1128 a month. So if you also get social housing then its not a bad amount. (3 times the average wage in eastern Europe)

And please don't honestly tell me that the 86,040 mothers getting the payment a really lone parents.

Yes She was all over the Media about that yesterday,radio as well,It could'nt be that Mary Hannifin thinks the present Minister for finance may have to step down during his treatment and she's making a pitch for the job could it?

No She could'nt be that ruthless and cruel..................could She?

Tipsy Mac

There's a big difference in the category of single parent, you have the couple with say 3 kids who split up and the mother becomes a single parent, fine I see nothing at all wrong with her getting the full payment. Then you see a mother who has kids for purely commercial reasons with different fathers, this is where people have the problem, one could be an accident, four can be a goldmine.

johngalway

donegalfella wrote: »

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Sure just throw the out on the street and be done with them.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Permabear

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Eliot Rosewater

johngalway wrote: »

Sure just throw the out on the street and be done with them.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Emotive nonsense. This post is exactly what is wrong with the social welfare debate. It it impossible to have a frank and reasonable discussion without someone coming on and talking in strained tones about the (cliche of the year) "vulnerable" and how we are out to get them. Then they stick in some sentence such as "Happy Christmas" - irrelevant to the topic on hand and only designed to make them look morally superior.

What appears to be lost in this debate is the idea of personal responsibility: that a person has to deal themselves with the consequences of their own actions.

johngalway

Ah the cost of living rubbish. It's fallen for "some" people, it's fallen for "some" things. You'd swear we all buy exactly the same things.

It should be left as it is.

Just like I said earlier on, this is another kick from the Government into people who are easy targets.

saol alainn

Someone here came out with the very good idea that the lone-parent payment be replaced by jobseekers benefit (or allowance as I always confuse the two) when the child turns 13. At least then something will be coming in until they find a job. Although it must be said that the law must be stricter when the times are good, not during a recession. Finding jobs at the moment are difficult for qualified graduates, let alone for a returning to work mother. I should know!

There are a couple of things I would suggest, though. In the case of an unmarried mother, the lone-parent allowance stops with the one child. If she has another child, she does not get the allowance again. No way, jose. Getting caught out once is unfortunate, any more than that is gross irresponsibility. One takes precautions when married if one cannot afford/doesn't want more kids, let alone when one's single.

As for housing, is it true that single mothers jump the queue? I'd heard that bandied about, but don't know if it's true or not. If it is, I disagree. Anyone who applies for housing has their own pressing reason. I wouldn't put having a child high up on the priority list, unless they were proven to have been thrown out of the family home and have, therefore, no contact with their family.

But it's important that the genuine cases are not lumped in with the abusers. If someone is known to be doing their utmost to help themselves get out of the rut they found themselves in, there must be the assistance they desperately need.

johngalway

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

that a person has to deal themselves with the consequences of their own actions.

Nonsense yourself. The reason I didn't like the other thread on this subject is the same faces are on it getting the dig into people who aren't in a position to push back. Peoples actions don't always lead in the direction they expected in the long term, you're away there happily tarring every lone parent as a scrounger.

Eliot Rosewater

johngalway wrote: »

Ah the cost of living rubbish.

I think with that kind of attitude, theres just no point in engaging in a debate with you on this. Perhaps you should start dealing with reality around you, and the nature of decision making and how government handouts influence those decisions.

ntlbell

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

johngalway wrote: »

Nonsense yourself. The reason I didn't like the other thread on this subject is the same faces are on it getting the dig into people who aren't in a position to push back. Peoples actions don't always lead in the direction they expected in the long term, you're away there happily tarring every lone parent as a scrounger.

Since you want to continue the discussion, why don't you take some time and respond to the questions put to you and less of the low level news of the world emotional responses?

sold

johngalway wrote: »

Nonsense yourself. The reason I didn't like the other thread on this subject is the same faces are on it getting the dig into people who aren't in a position to push back. Peoples actions don't always lead in the direction they expected in the long term, you're away there happily tarring every lone parent as a scrounger.

I am totally in favour of supporting lone parents, The last thing we need as a state are children growing up without oportunities and means to advance. But the current system does not provide the support that is needed and is open to abuse, shelling out money is not the answer, food & Cloths stamps, Childcare and training would target better the needs than money, as it stands the support has become a the end of the road and you have parents who are on this benefit for years without trying to look for a job, Its a fine line between giving support and allowing being to depend totally on it removing iniciative to move on to better things.

Permabear

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Lockstep

sold wrote: »

Italy used not to pay lone parents much. Lo and behold, there were very few lone parents.

If you give the allowances you allow them to be abused.


In Italy, the figure is only 0.5 per cent. Ireland has 18 per cent. It seems like our social system has caused the problem. Italy does not offer the allowance and has 17% less lone parents.

http://www.combatpoverty.ie/povertyinireland/oneparentfamilies.htm

Italy doesn't have a lot of children at all. They're birth rate is extremely low and their population is decling.

Stands to reason they'd have few lone parents. It got so bad that in 2003, they started giving case bonuses (€1000) to parents who had more than one kid. They then decided to extend it to the first child to even encourage this.

johngalway

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I think with that kind of attitude, theres just no point in engaging in a debate with you on this. Perhaps you should start dealing with reality around you, and the nature of decision making and how government handouts influence those decisions.

ntlbell wrote: »

Since you want to continue the discussion, why don't you take some time and respond to the questions put to you and less of the low level news of the world emotional responses?

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Eliot,

To many comments of mine in previous threads to direct you to there. As for answering questions, why exactly? I have had my say and differ significantly from others and have said so. I'm cute enough to realise I won't change any of their opinions, nor was I looking to. What I said stands, I do hope it stays fine for them, as "reality" is more of a kick in the teeth than some here realise.

ntlbell,

I deal with reality every day thank you. As above, if you, God forbid, had to deal with the reality of living in this country with only Social Welfare looking after you, you'd soon change your views. It's a net that's there for all of us.

DF,

Not everyone is claiming all of what you list, please bear that in mind. People do have dignity, not everyone is a scammer. A lot of people have sacrificed a lot of things in their life for their kids. And no, I don't accept the CSO argument actually, just like I said, not all of us buy the same things, and cherry picking things that went down in price and lumping them in as an average makes a poor argument.

As for trust in our Government. I have none, zero, zip, zilch. Because they have 12 years of real bad form, re-elected by flagrant and stupid spending sprees.

Now folks, I'm off out the door, got to head for the city as I've an anniversary dinner to be at

Happy New year to all, and again, may it stay fine for ye

Permabear

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Permabear

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Valmont

I have two older cousins who both have two children each from separate fathers. They were both given a house by the council and receive very generous allowances. When the social services worker was set to come around to examine one of my cousins living conditions, she and her mother piled every single belonging of hers into the baby's room so that it would looked cramped and uncomfortable. They both regularly delegate babysitting duties to the rest of their extensive immediate family with the result that they both visited India this summer gone and are, at this very moment, in Spain celebrating the New Year (without the children). Take from that what you will but I do think that lone-parent allowance needs to be addressed.


EDIT: This anecdote may seem hyperbolic but I assure you it is completely true.

sold

Valmont wrote: »

I have two older cousins who both have two children each from separate fathers. They were both given a house by the council and receive very generous allowances. When the social services worker was set to come around to examine one of my cousins living conditions, she and her mother piled every single belonging of hers into the baby's room so that it would looked cramped and uncomfortable. They both regularly delegate babysitting duties to the rest of their extensive immediate family with the result that they both visited India this summer gone and are, at this very moment, in Spain celebrating the New Year (without the children). Take from that what you will but I do think that lone-parent allowance needs to be addressed.


EDIT: This anecdote may seem hyperbolic but I assure you it is completely true.

Yes, I know of several "lone mothers" 2 who live in houses beside me who go with their pals on holidays 3 times a year to lanzarote and leave the kids with family at home, I work and the most I can afford for my family is one holiday, everyone needs a holiday, but they don't work a day all year and can live it up on taxpayer. I reported one of the mothers because her 4yo old son was always on his own wandering the estate, social services got involved but after 6 months everything was back to status quo. She times her holidays to 6 days so that she does not miss her payments. She even gets a taxi to bring he to airport and 6 days later she is back browner than Obama.

Sorry I am not PC, but that is the truth, ands its what I told Social Services.

97i9y3941

thats where the system is a mess up too,you could complain about those who dont want to do a tap of work but rather live off the welfare for years,but in the end they are entilted to it unfortantly...

Foxytocin

sold wrote: »

Finally the penny has dropped. The allowance should never have been introduced in the 1st place. Personally I think the biggest is are with the girls who become "lone Parents" to get the allowance and housing.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1230/1224261408872.html

Lone parent allowance is currently €1128 a month. So if you also get social housing then its not a bad amount. (3 times the average wage in eastern Europe)

And please don't honestly tell me that the 86,040 mothers getting the payment a really lone parents.

Well I can't speak for the other 86,0389, but I certainly am single. I don't feel that that's likely to change, being nearly 40 with two children and hardly a pot to piss in. I'm a real catch (not). Sammy Davis Jnr style, I wouldn't be interested in a man who'd be interested in me. I'm sure this is the norm not the exception for single mothers. Also, I don't know how many weeks you have in a month, but I have two children and don't get that much. I didn't choose to be a single mother. I chose to be a smug married as it happens.

Foxytocin

ps, i can confirm that you don't automatically get a council house just because you are a single parent. I don't have one, despite having been on a list for 3 years. If there are 800 people on the list ahead of you then NO way does having a baby on purpose get you a house. I left an abusive man with the clothes on our backs and we weren't given a house, and to be honest, I can hardly think how I could have been 'more deserving' on paper..... There just aren't enough council houses full stop for people to be living in them easily, either deservedly or not. The vast majority of people are claiming rent allowance, and that costs the gov so much more. but that issue is not specific to single mothers. that's an issue that affects everybody on benefits. job seekers, those on disability allowance, carers etc... This idea that there is an abundance of council houses waiting to be doled out to girls with a bump is SO erroneous.

nanci

How about a reality show where politicians and their families have to swap lives with people on social welfare. Do it for 4 weeks for them to get an idea of what it's like. Give them their budget for rent, food, fuel, electricity, clothes, petrol, car, phone, tv, school, insurance etc...so everything has to be accounted for. Gone are the meals out, the bottles of wine, entertaining at home, the warm house with heating on all day. That is one show I would tune in for.

Main reason for writing in - To anyone out there willing to denounce sole parents, please keep in mind many of us are sole parents due to circumstances beyond our control. My friend's husband died after a long illness with multiple sclerosis. Another, after 13 yrs of marriage, the husband decided to it wasn't what he wanted and walked out on her and their two kids. My own story is just one of millions, I was married for 18 years and despite doing all the right things (loyal, supportive, understanding, working outside the home, been the homemaker...) I am now a sole parent with 3 children, 2 are still under 4. It has been 2 years of hell. Had to leave job, moved towns to live closer to family. Home is gone and only managed to clear the mortgage due to the housing crisis. Am looking for a job but with paying rent, with one child in school and 2 needing fulltime care am already behind. Still I want to work as its the only way to get ahead and start again but there are no jobs out in the private or public health service. I am looking. The maintenance helps cover some costs and I receive a partial sole parent allowance. We do not receive rental assistance and do not have a medical card. A lifetime of work and effort can be wiped out so easily and unfortunately it is going to happen to a lot of people in the coming year. Social welfare helps those who find themselves in very vunerable situations. It is not a way to get rich or live a life of ease and comfort. Anyone dependant on social welfare will tell you every penny counts. I agree there will always be a certain percentage who appear to "milk" the system but that is present in every society. Also comparing social welfare rates to other countries is unfair as Ireland is very expensive to live in, and other countries provide health care and other basics free of charge. Could go on for ever but walk in my shoes and live my life before you make a judgement.
So to all you sole parents out there, your're doing your best and for the sake of your kids will continue to do so. It's not easy and can be a lonely road.
Just want to add I disliked what that minister Mary H. had to say about sole parents. Very condesending and arrogant. We are an easy target. This is probably my first and only post. Good luck to all in 2010.
Nanci