Lone-parent allowance may be cut, says Hanafin

AARRRGH

I have mixed feelings on the whole lone parent thing, depending on what sort of lone parent you are.

I would have a lot of sympathy for people who were in relationships which ended or where their partner died, and are now on their own trying to raise a kid. But retards who get pregnant on a one night stand or having barely known their partner, there is no excuse for that sort of behaviour.

And then of course there are the people who are milking the system by getting pregnant knowing it will mean a free home and free money every week. I know a number of girls from Ballyfermot who have done this. It seems it is a way of life for a large number of people.

Saying all that I know being a lone parent is difficult, so I am ok with our current social welfare system.

I would rather focus on teaching parenting skills to people, such as forcing pregnant women and their partner to attend a series parenting classes, and I would provide free contraception to all.

I would also like to figure out a way to combat the lone parent scammers, but I don't really know how you could do that. Maybe we could introduce a one strike policy - if you are caught cheating the system your payments are cut off. And advertise this heavily so people have no excuse for claiming ignorance.

AARRRGH

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am an honest, hard working person, but whenever I read what the unemployed get, I can't help but question if I'm being a moron.

"What?! You mean I could play XBOX all day and have all my food, bills and rent paid for me?"

It makes no sense.

sold

nanci wrote: »

Just want to add I disliked what that minister Mary H. had to say about sole parents. Very condesending and arrogant. We are an easy target. This is probably my first and only post. Good luck to all in 2010.
Nanci

Hi Nanci, Its obvious that you need the payment. and after 13 years of marriage you are entitled to it since your husband probably paid PRSI while you were at home. Also for those who loose their partner in death. But they are thousands of other girls who get pregnant just to have the payment and the house who have never contributed to society and who don't want to either. I presume you did not set out looking for the payment but was landed in the situation you are in.

Personally it should be scaled, For Girls from 18 to 24 support could be given by other means (like Food stamps, Cloths stamps, Childcare, ) dishing money out is not the solution as de facto we have a class in society who get pregnant for the benefits. Currently its so easy to get the benefits that there is not reason NOT to swindle the system.

The current system is not helping society, its causing problems for the future.

Welease

nanci wrote: »

How about a reality show where politicians and their families have to swap lives with people on social welfare. Do it for 4 weeks for them to get an idea of what it's like. Give them their budget for rent, food, fuel, electricity, clothes, petrol, car, phone, tv, school, insurance etc...so everything has to be accounted for. Gone are the meals out, the bottles of wine, entertaining at home, the warm house with heating on all day. That is one show I would tune in for.

Main reason for writing in - To anyone out there willing to denounce sole parents, please keep in mind many of us are sole parents due to circumstances beyond our control. My friend's husband died after a long illness with multiple sclerosis. Another, after 13 yrs of marriage, the husband decided to it wasn't what he wanted and walked out on her and their two kids. My own story is just one of millions, I was married for 18 years and despite doing all the right things (loyal, supportive, understanding, working outside the home, been the homemaker...) I am now a sole parent with 3 children, 2 are still under 4. It has been 2 years of hell. Had to leave job, moved towns to live closer to family. Home is gone and only managed to clear the mortgage due to the housing crisis. Am looking for a job but with paying rent, with one child in school and 2 needing fulltime care am already behind. Still I want to work as its the only way to get ahead and start again but there are no jobs out in the private or public health service. I am looking. The maintenance helps cover some costs and I receive a partial sole parent allowance. We do not receive rental assistance and do not have a medical card. A lifetime of work and effort can be wiped out so easily and unfortunately it is going to happen to a lot of people in the coming year. Social welfare helps those who find themselves in very vunerable situations. It is not a way to get rich or live a life of ease and comfort. Anyone dependant on social welfare will tell you every penny counts. I agree there will always be a certain percentage who appear to "milk" the system but that is present in every society. Also comparing social welfare rates to other countries is unfair as Ireland is very expensive to live in, and other countries provide health care and other basics free of charge. Could go on for ever but walk in my shoes and live my life before you make a judgement.
So to all you sole parents out there, your're doing your best and for the sake of your kids will continue to do so. It's not easy and can be a lonely road.
Just want to add I disliked what that minister Mary H. had to say about sole parents. Very condesending and arrogant. We are an easy target. This is probably my first and only post. Good luck to all in 2010.
Nanci

I think the majority of people understand and appreciate the difficulties faces by a lot of single parents, but harsh as it may sound there are the realities that a) this country is broke and b) you and your (ex) husband decided to have children, there has to be a limit to what everyone else can and needs to pay to support that.

The simple fact is few people pay the taxes that support this country, and a lot of that money is wasted. Those who earn and pay taxes have bills, mortgages etc. to pay and also have limited funds to continually pay out for everyone elses changing circumstances.. That does not make them unfeeling or whatever, it's just a simple fact of life, just because someone has an income doesn't make them rich, many of them are struggling also, and cannot be called upon continally to pay more and more taxes.

Please don't think that this as any form of attack, just merely an honest opinion from another perspective.

I know errant husbands can be forced to pay child support costs in the UK? is this not done in Ireland? Seems rediculous if not.. why should everyone else pay for a fathers children.His salary should be garnished to support his kids, not mine.

And this is going to sound cruel.. (and apologies in advance) but how about a reality show whereby the missing partners of children get to live like the rest of us who support our children... Yeah politicans live in a different world, but so do those who skip out on years of marriage and expect me to pick up the bill for their children. (again apologies, but that is in essence what I am being asked to do)

AARRRGH

sold wrote: »

Personally it should be scaled, For Girls from 18 to 24 support could be given by other means (like Food stamps, Cloths stamps, Childcare, ) dishing money out is not the solution as de facto we have a class in society who get pregnant for the benefits.

Good idea.

This is only anecdotal, but most of the single mothers I know spend majority of the money on booze and other nonsense.

bmaxi

Foxytocin wrote: »

Well I can't speak for the other 86,0389, but I certainly am single. I don't feel that that's likely to change, being nearly 40 with two children and hardly a pot to piss in. I'm a real catch (not). Sammy Davis Jnr style, I wouldn't be interested in a man who'd be interested in me. I'm sure this is the norm not the exception for single mothers. Also, I don't know how many weeks you have in a month, but I have two children and don't get that much. I didn't choose to be a single mother. I chose to be a smug married as it happens.

Allowances should be made for people like yourself, who have come into these circumstances through abuse or desertion and I don't think there's any argument about that, certainly not from me.
The real problem, as I see it, is with those who deliberately set themselves up to abuse the system or are too stupid or p*ssed to realise what they are doing when they get pregnant.
I don't think anybody really wants to see lone parents allowance abolished, merely policed better. The practice, for instance, of giving advance warning of a social worker's visit so that all traces of the boyfriend can be removed for the duration.
Incidentally, do you get support from your ex for your children? I ask simply because it's a pet peeve of mine that men are simply allowed to walk away from their responsibilities.

veronica

should be paid for first child only upto 12yrs

dvpower

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Just had a look at this benefit on the Citizens Information Website.

It allows recipients to have a job. You can earn up to €22k and still get some of this money.

To qualify for a One-Parent Family Payment you must:

• Be the parent, step-parent, adoptive parent or legal guardian of a qualified child. A qualified child is a child under 18 years of age or aged 18-22 and in full-time education.
• Be the main carer of at least one qualified child and that child must live with you. One-Parent Family Payment is not payable if a couple has joint equal custody of a child or children.
• Have earnings of €425 or less per week
• Satisfy a means test
• Be habitually resident
• Not be cohabiting (that is, living with someone as husband and wife).

From reading the details of the scheme, it look like it was originally intended to help single parents back into the workforce. It allows small amounts of earnings with no clawback and larger amounts with some clawback; it also allows for transitional payments for the first year that a lone parent gets back to fulltime work.

So a proposal to cut it after a period of time seems to make complete sense.

AlekSmart

It is not a way to get rich or live a life of ease and comfort. Anyone dependant on social welfare will tell you every penny counts. I agree there will always be a certain percentage who appear to "milk" the system but that is present in every society.

I think Nanci and some other legitimate claimants of the Lone Parents Allowance are perfectly allowed to feel peeved at the steps being taken by Ms Hanifin.

The key is in that term "certain percentage" which tends to be used in the same manner as "small minority" is when referring to those who inflict damage and fear upon society generally.

Anybody living in Urban Ireland knows just how significant a "small minority" can be when living close to them and I suspect the "certain percentage" of hooky LPA recipients are just as significant.

At issue more than anything is the friendliness of the LPA system to new entrants who,whether tutored or not,embark upon establishing it`s benefit as their main resource.
Unlike Nanci,these people are usually far removed from any reasonable definition of being a "Lone" parent as they are to be found usually to be "In the company" of a significant other,usually but not always the father of the child/ren.

It can only be to the benefit of the Nanci`s of this world to see those other savvy LPA claimants subject to a significantly higher level of stress-testing before the State commits to supporting them for 22 years.

sceptre

Threads merged - both are discussing the same issue/question/proposal.

saol alainn

Foxytocin wrote: »

Well I can't speak for the other 86,0389, but I certainly am single. I don't feel that that's likely to change, being nearly 40 with two children and hardly a pot to piss in. I'm a real catch (not). Sammy Davis Jnr style, I wouldn't be interested in a man who'd be interested in me. I'm sure this is the norm not the exception for single mothers. Also, I don't know how many weeks you have in a month, but I have two children and don't get that much. I didn't choose to be a single mother. I chose to be a smug married as it happens.

Women in your position are the ones who need the most help. Kudos to you for having the courage to get out. It is because of such circumstances that many of us are not in favour of having the benefit abolished. But each case has to be examined on its own merits. You worked hard to get where you are. The same cannot be said to the single 20-odd year old with more than one child already, and another on the way, with no 'father' seemingly on the scene. It is the latter that most of us would have an issue with.

sold

I see all the discussion is on the Lone Parent (most of them women). What about the fathers. I don't believe the the bu**s**t answer that the father is unknown, maybe some of the women don't know who the father is, but you can be sure 90% do. Why does the state not persue them? 86000 women on lone parents allowance, where are the fathers? (for sure not all dead) as a Man I was always taught to take responsability for my actions, it seems like the state has picked up the tab for these guys,

Lollymcd

I think the lone parent payment should be raised to something like €260 or so. For the first child only. If you have a second it reduces by €40, a third it reduces by €30 etc. The payment should be adequate for the parent to stay at home and look after the child. Surely society would benift overall from this?

Everyone is allowed to make mistakes, but having four children to different fathers is more than a mistake, it's a lifestyle choice. It should turn into job seekers allowence when the child goes to secondary school. Food stamps, clothing grants etc should also be supplied.

Should widows and deserted spouses have a different allowence as their circumstances are completly different to those of a single parent?

sold

Lollymcd wrote: »

The payment should be adequate for the parent to stay at home and look after the child. Surely society would benift overall from this?

Yes, IF the mother did look after the child. A mother infront of my house lets her 3yo son wander the estate, she does 3 times a year to Spain. so it seems the payment does not got to look after the children.

Lollymcd

sold wrote: »

Yes, IF the mother did look after the child. A mother infront of my house lets her 3yo son wander the estate, she does 3 times a year to Spain. so it seems the payment does not got to look after the children.

This is reprehensible to say the least. I suppose I would be considered a meddler if I suggested something should be done about the matter? Some agency informed?

Foxytocin

bmaxi wrote: »

Allowances should be made for people like yourself, who have come into these circumstances through abuse or desertion and I don't think there's any argument about that, certainly not from me.
The real problem, as I see it, is with those who deliberately set themselves up to abuse the system or are too stupid or p*ssed to realise what they are doing when they get pregnant.
I don't think anybody really wants to see lone parents allowance abolished, merely policed better. The practice, for instance, of giving advance warning of a social worker's visit so that all traces of the boyfriend can be removed for the duration.
Incidentally, do you get support from your ex for your children? I ask simply because it's a pet peeve of mine that men are simply allowed to walk away from their responsibilities.

bmaxi, no not a cent. he earns 70k as well. It's pretty galling, but I left him, so in his mind, I must be punished. Although I was 31 when I got pregnant! and had paid taxes for 10 years, I do take some of the responsibility for getting involved with such a nutter. My Dad is going to help pay for court costs later in the year, but it feels like pointless vengeance which will upset us all.. and I've just got 'ma **** together' ! I HOPE that within two years I will have a job. Definitely it should be easier to extract money from men like my x. but my x would defy a court order to pay maintenance. he would go to America, he has relatives there.

gerry28

Foxytocin wrote: »

bmaxi, no not a cent. he earns 70k as well. It's pretty galling, but I left him, so in his mind, I must be punished. Although I was 31 when I got pregnant! and had paid taxes for 10 years, I do take some of the responsibility for getting involved with such a nutter. My Dad is going to help pay for court costs later in the year, but it feels like pointless vengeance which will upset us all.. and I've just got 'ma **** together' ! I HOPE that within two years I will have a job. Definitely it should be easier to extract money from men like my x. but my x would defy a court order to pay maintenance. he would go to America, he has relatives there.

Foxytocin, there is the maintance recovery section in the dept of social welfare. If they had the name of your childrens father and knew he was on 70K a year they would take a big chunk of that of him and you wouldn't need to borrow from your father for court.

Foxytocin

gerry28 wrote: »

Foxytocin, there is the maintance recovery section in the dept of social welfare. If they had the name of your childrens father and knew he was on 70K a year they would take a big chunk of that of him and you wouldn't need to borrow from your father for court.

I have given them his name, but nothing has happened yet. I don't know whether it's because they have a backlog, or he's been lucky and slipped through the net somehow. He might have managed to arrange it so that he's paid from the uk as his company is English and he would be canny enough to do that if it was possible. BUT I know there is something called a reciprocal enforcement of maintenance between ireland and uk. I will be going to court later in the year, but I needed to get my mental strength back first. I will need to metaphorically take an emotional valium before I go head to head with him... it is hard to explain but it would really sap the life out of me and I need to be strong for the children. Wow I've really overshared on this thread!

bmaxi

Foxytocin wrote: »

I have given them his name, but nothing has happened yet. I don't know whether it's because they have a backlog, or he's been lucky and slipped through the net somehow. He might have managed to arrange it so that he's paid from the uk as his company is English and he would be canny enough to do that if it was possible. BUT I know there is something called a reciprocal enforcement of maintenance between ireland and uk. I will be going to court later in the year, but I needed to get my mental strength back first. I will need to metaphorically take an emotional valium before I go head to head with him... it is hard to explain but it would really sap the life out of me and I need to be strong for the children. Wow I've really overshared on this thread!

Am I to assume you are taking a private civil action against him?
I fail to see the need for this, surely if your circumstances are poor you can apply for an Earnings Attachment order and receive Legal Aid to do this.

ynotdu

There are many truthful and thought provoking posts on this thread.
It would be naive in the extreme to think that many 'lone parents'are really lone parents and their children often do far better(at least in material terms)than a married couple with children who played by the rules(and look at the way the state thanked them!)

Their are also many lone parents who are decent people really trying their best to create a home and sarcrafice a lot to help make their children feel as equals to those on decent paid jobs.

Hannifins timing was a disgrace......................an insult to Lenihan.

an old saying goes: If You compare Yourself to others,You May become vain or bitter.

Why are SO many boardsie,s so right wing about this issue?
OK so in the US,USA,etc these payments DO stop at age's 5-7.
Ireland is none of the above.
I dont like or trust Hannifins timing(due to my suspicion that she MAY have being making a play for B Lenihans job)

I wonder(no sarcasm meant)how much these extreme right wing views across many economic forums are personal thoughts having used their thought process's and how many have been simply brainwashed into an extreme right wing view during the 'good ole'celtic tiger years.

AARRRGH

Lone parent scammer posting on boards today: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055786038

bmaxi

AARRRGH wrote: »

Lone parent scammer posting on boards today: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055786038

Did you read the OP's second post in that thread? It throws a different light.

Joey the lips

bmaxi wrote: »

Did you read the OP's second post in that thread? It throws a different light.

The op's second post is 2 min after his post so in fairness he was entitled to make the assumption. The op does not give the full facts so its natural for anyone to judge especially since its a touchy subject.

personally I believe that its not what it seems. If the child is special needs or a problem she would not be given a small house. But then again I am not really being that judgement as I am in the same position ie special needs child.

AARRRGH

bmaxi wrote: »

Did you read the OP's second post in that thread? It throws a different light.

Yeah. I don't believe her.

irish_bob

ynotdu wrote: »

There are many truthful and thought provoking posts on this thread.
It would be naive in the extreme to think that many 'lone parents'are really lone parents and their children often do far better(at least in material terms)than a married couple with children who played by the rules(and look at the way the state thanked them!)

Their are also many lone parents who are decent people really trying their best to create a home and sarcrafice a lot to help make their children feel as equals to those on decent paid jobs.

Hannifins timing was a disgrace......................an insult to Lenihan.

an old saying goes: If You compare Yourself to others,You May become vain or bitter.

Why are SO many boardsie,s so right wing about this issue?
OK so in the US,USA,etc these payments DO stop at age's 5-7.
Ireland is none of the above.
I dont like or trust Hannifins timing(due to my suspicion that she MAY have being making a play for B Lenihans job)

I wonder(no sarcasm meant)how much these extreme right wing views across many economic forums are personal thoughts having used their thought process's and how many have been simply brainwashed into an extreme right wing view during the 'good ole'celtic tiger years.

your obviously dont know what extreme right is

bmaxi

AARRRGH wrote: »

Yeah. I don't believe her.

That's your prerogative but I fail to see what she hopes to achieve by posting on an internet forum. DSFCA will either give it to her or they won't.

Joey the lips

bmaxi wrote: »

That's your prerogative but I fail to see what she hopes to achieve by posting on an internet forum. DSFCA will either give it to her or they won't.

ignorance perhaps. You know the line....I did not know i was breaking the law by having my fella living with me or its only a couple of quid. but i agree they will either or wont give it.

Are you not curious why she did not post in long term illness instead of state benefits. Would there be a possability that its not a legally reconised long term illness. After all long term illness is easier to find than state benefits

veronica

This allowance should never have been put in place but you cannot just now withdraw it. This has to be done over a period of time but it must be cut we can no longer afford it due to our foolish ministers who ran this country from boom to bust.We also have to cut child benefit going out of this country and close down refugee centre nationwide and also cut our Presidents salary to €50,000pa this role should be an honour to do and abolish the Seanad, Lord Mayor's offices getting overpaid for shacking hands with people and as a people we have to support Irish shops first who employee Irish people its madness that so many Irish are out of work while others from Poland, Germany, France,Spain etc are working!

bmaxi

Joey the lips wrote: »

ignorance perhaps. You know the line....I did not know i was breaking the law by having my fella living with me or its only a couple of quid. but i agree they will either or wont give it.

Are you not curious why she did not post in long term illness instead of state benefits. Would there be a possability that its not a legally reconised long term illness. After all long term illness is easier to find than state benefits

Again I say, what has she to gain by posting here?
This is a discussion forum, the best she can hope for is that someone will tell her how and where to apply, then it's down to the merits of the case.
Surely if her aim is to scam DFSA then she can do it equally as well without help from us.

Joe1919

AARRRGH wrote: »

Lone parent scammer posting on boards today: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055786038

I think the use of the word 'scammer' here is both unnecessary and insulting and goes against the guidelines in terms of not showing respect to the poster concerned.
Whats more, it devalues the original objective argument that you may be making (that low paid married workers are sometimes worst off than people on social welfare) which is a pity because I do happen to agree that this can sometimes be the case.