Portsmouth FC issued a winding up petition

everdead.ie

HM revenue & customs issues a winding up petition for unpaid taxes
Just on SSN now

Is this a wind up?

everdead.ie

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is this a wind up?

Nope don't think so they have had trouble paying players already twice this year now it looks like the club is foooked

Daysha

Can someone explain to me what this actually means?

LuckyLloyd

Not sure how these things work. I assume there will be an opportunity to stay the order / appeal it / etc?

mike65

Chelsea announce they are debt free and Pompey go bust....

Kinetic^

Daysha wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what this actually means?

It means the company will cease to exist, ie. no more football club.

Eire-Dearg

Daysha wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what this actually means?

If they don't pay up their taxes its bye bye Portsmouth FC.

Karmafaerie

Daysha wrote: »

Can someone explain to me what this actually means?

everdead.ie wrote: »

Nope don't think so they have had trouble paying players already twice this year now it looks like the club is foooked

Het-Field

I dont think it means the liquidation and winding up of Portsmouth. However, if they continue to go this way, and players/transfer fees remain unpaid, then I think it means administration is the only alternative, and that could mean anything up to a 30 point deduction

Daysha

Karmafaerie wrote: »

:pac:

I was more interested in wondering what the actual legal process is here. What kind of timeframe are we talking?

everdead.ie

If a creditor(HM Revenue & Customs) wants to apply for a company to be wound up, they must first present an application to the Court. This application is called a Winding Up Petition. The Court will review the petition to determine if it is reasonable. Generally the creditor will have to show that they have taken reasonable steps to collect the outstanding amount owed to them. If the Court accepts the petition, then it will be issued to the company and advertised in the London Gazette. The company itself then has the opportunity to pay the debt owed or argue that the petition is unreasonable. If the debt is upheld but not paid then the Court will grant the Petition and issue a Winding Up Order. The process to close or liquidate the business is then started.

http://www.articlesbase.com/credit-articles/what-is-a-winding-up-petition-979782.html

Also means no funds available for january

mike65

Thats David James to Spurs for sure then.

Kinetic^

Het-Field wrote: »

I dont think it means the liquidation and winding up of Portsmouth.

They've asked to have them wound up as they appear to be unable to pay their bills, most importantly tax. It's pretty similar to the cork city fc situation with the revenue here.

everdead.ie

SSN saying there will be a court appearance and if they haven't improved there financial position the order will be granted

Eire-Dearg

What happens to their fixtures if everything shuts down?

everdead.ie

3-0 walk overs to the remaining games

Kinetic^

Taken from here

Portsmouth Football Club has been issued with a winding up petition by HM Revenue & Customs, the BBC has learned.

The petition was presented on 23 December but a full court hearing will not take place until February.

If the club is unable to strengthen its financial position by then, the club could be declared bankrupt.

Portsmouth has been the subject of much takeover speculation and has reportedly been unable to pay some player wages.

Eire-Dearg

***Pay up Pompey, Pompey pay up! Pay up Pompey, Pompey pay up!***

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Assuming it's granted, what are the chances of this taking effect before the end of the season?

Peyton Manning

mike65 wrote: »

Thats David James to Spurs for sure then.

Not a chance. Gomes has been one of the best keepers in the league this season, and James wont go there to be number 2 with the World Cup coming up and Joe Hart staking a claim to be number 1.

The Volt

everdead.ie wrote: »

3-0 walk overs to the remaining games

Or would all of their fixtures be declared Null and Void? So anyone who took 3 points off them would be 3 points worse off?

everdead.ie

Voltwad wrote: »

Or would all of their fixtures be declared Null and Void? So anyone who took 3 points off them would be 3 points worse off?

They couldn't do that tho the likes of liverpool would be better off and everyone else would drop three points

LuckyLloyd

Voltwad wrote: »

Or would all of their fixtures be declared Null and Void? So anyone who took 3 points off them would be 3 points worse off?

All games null and void, so anyone who dropped 3 points to them would now be 3 points better off. Basically everyone gets 6 points off them for the season.

Gillington

8million for Kaboul to City looks increasingly more likely to happen now.

CR 7

Archimedes wrote: »

Not a chance. Gomes has been one of the best keepers in the league this season, and James wont go there to be number 2 with the World Cup coming up and Joe Hart staking a claim to be number 1.

That's quite true actually.

What about this one;

David James to United.

He's a quality keeper. United might be without the first choice keeper for the rest of the season.

Two young keepers that would benefit from the experience of a short term proven, veteran keeper.

The supposed lack of money.

Etc.

Paul Tergat

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

That's quite true actually.

What about this one;

David James to United.

He's a quality keeper. United might be without the first choice keeper for the rest of the season.

Two young keepers that would benefit from the experience of a short term proven, veteran keeper.

The supposed lack of money.

Etc.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


Hope something happens to save Pompey though. They will be selling a load of their players in Jan I'd say to raise cash and having to grab free transfers to fill the gaps. Relegation looks more likely too.

CR 7

p_larkin99 wrote: »

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO


Hope something happens to save Pompey though. They will be selling a load of their players in Jan I'd say to raise cash and having to grab free transfers to fill the gaps. Relegation looks more likely too.

You probably said the same about Owen coming though. An argument for the United thread, I think.


How many more players can they afford to sell though? They got rid of a good few in the summer. Unlikely they'll survive this I think. Even if they do manage to come up with the money, it'll be at the expense of the football.:(

Paul Tergat

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

How many more players can they afford to sell though? They got rid of a good few in the summer. Unlikely they'll survive this I think. Even if they do manage to come up with the money, it'll be at the expense of the football.:(

They have no choice.

They still can get some money for some of their better players.

As mentioned Kaboul may fetch up to £10m if Mancini is really interested in him. Other plays may get 1-3m, such as ben haim, wilson, boateng (i think hes not on loan there?), boupa diop (can see stoke moving for him) mokoena etc.

I guess it just depends on how much they need to pay the creditors in the short term but I think it would almost certainly lead to relegation.

Headshot

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

That's quite true actually.

What about this one;

David James to United.

He's a quality keeper. United might be without the first choice keeper for the rest of the season.

Two young keepers that would benefit from the experience of a short term proven, veteran keeper.

The supposed lack of money.

Etc.

mg there isnt a big enough face palm pic for that

CR 7

Headshot wrote: »

mg there isnt a big enough face palm pic for that

But is there a logical argument for that?

Headshot

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

But is there a logical argument for that?

we have 2 calamity goal keepers, we dont need a 3rd

CR 7

Headshot wrote: »

we have 2 calamity goal keepers, we dont need a 3rd

He's far from a calamity goal keeper, in fairness. Just a bad reputation. Sure by that logic, Cech is a calamity keeper, would you be adverse to getting him for free?

Headshot

Park Ji Sung wrote: »

He's far from a calamity goal keeper, in fairness. Just a bad reputation. Sure by that logic, Cech is a calamity keeper, would you be adverse to getting him for free?

once a calamity always a calamity

james is on another level to Cech tbf

therokerroar

These petitions have been handed out to numerous clubs this season including:

Notts County
Stockport
Rochdale
Cardiff
Palace
Lewes

They probably wont go bust, what the HMRC may be doing though is setting a marker down that as we move in to January - Their backers need to either prove they have the money and pay up, or Pompey will need to sell all and sundry to make what they can and clear their debts. So I suppose there is a chance they could sell most of the first team and end up with a nigh on reserve/youth team until the end of the season.

Harry Redknapp has managed only 5 clubs in his career. Is it just coincidence? Very bad luck if it is.

Bournemouth - Been on the brink since he left and into administration at least once.
West Ham - Been on the brink since he left (forced to sell players long before the Icelandic lad took over).
Southampton - Been on the brink since he left and into administration once.
Portsmouth - Been on the brink since he left and now seemingly on the way into administration.
Spurs - Remains to be seen.

therokerroar

therokerroar wrote: »

These petitions have been handed out to numerous clubs this season including:

Notts County
Stockport
Rochdale
Cardiff
Palace
Lewes

They probably wont go bust, what the HMRC may be doing though is setting a marker down that as we move in to January - Their backers need to either prove they have the money and pay up, or Pompey will need to sell all and sundry to make what they can and clear their debts. So I suppose there is a chance they could sell most of the first team and end up with a nigh on reserve/youth team until the end of the season.

Harry Redknapp has managed only 5 clubs in his career. Is it just coincidence? Very bad luck if it is.

Bournemouth - Been on the brink since he left and into administration at least once.
West Ham - Been on the brink since he left (forced to sell players long before the Icelandic lad took over).
Southampton - Been on the brink since he left and into administration once.
Portsmouth - Been on the brink since he left and now seemingly on the way into administration.
Spurs - Remains to be seen.

Bye bye Spurs?

noodler

Pompey are denying it


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5812964,00.html

therecklessone

therokerroar wrote: »

Spurs - Remains to be seen.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Bye bye Spurs?

Welcome to have a read at your leisure chaps:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/uploads/assets/docstore/2009_annual_report.pdf

Financial Highlights 2009

Headshot

Portsmouth say they expect to pay their players' December wages on 5 January. The squad had been due to receive their salaries this afternoon. The club had to borrow money to pay the players' wages for November and in October a loan of £5m was secured to pay the wages of players and some staff for the previous month.

"Portsmouth Football Club expect to pay their first team squad's December salaries on Tuesday 5 January," read a club statement. "The club have been speaking to the PFA and the players have been informed. The club have been assured of receipt of funds by Tuesday and the owner and board have been working hard on resolving the short term delay."

Other members of non-playing staff at Portsmouth have been told they will also not be paid on time, and are expected to be paid on Monday. A club spokesman told the Portsmouth News: "The problem was due to a file not being loaded properly at the bank. It wasn't processed properly.

"The club apologise and if there are any knock-on effects financially for employees the club will reimburse them."

Portsmouth have already been hit with a winding-up petition by HM Revenue and Customs this month. The petition was applied for by HMRC on 23 December but a full court hearing is not expected to take place until February.

Sacha Gaydamak, the former owner of Portsmouth says he is owed at least £28m by the club, and has demanded that the current proprietor, Ali al-Faraj, tell him when he will be paid.

poor pompey cant get a break

therecklessone

Jaysus, things not getting any better...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8439545.stm

"Hope" to pay the players today.
Jamie O'Hara's loan cannot be extended because of the transfer embargo.
Kevin-Prince Boateng cannot play for another club this season as he's already played for Spurs and Pompey, so he can't be sold.

everdead.ie

Who is really getting the blame for this mess is it Gladymack for giving Redknapp a blank Checkbook, Redknapp for spending it, The middle eastern guy from the summer who promised a ton of money just to sell it on, Or the current guy who seems to be the other only brook middle eastern guy??

OhNoYouDidn't

Bookmarked for next time a barstooler smugly criticises the LoI for financial mismanagement.....

therecklessone

everdead.ie wrote: »

Who is really getting the blame for this mess is it Gladymack for giving Redknapp a blank Checkbook, Redknapp for spending it, The middle eastern guy from the summer who promised a ton of money just to sell it on, Or the current guy who seems to be the other only brook middle eastern guy??

'Arry not being the most popular man in these parts will come in for come flak, but the man with ultimate responsibility for ensuring the club did not spend beyond it's means is the Chief Executive, in this case Peter Storrie, with oversight provided by the board (essentially Milan Mandaric and Alexandre Gaydamak until 2006 when the latter bought out the former's shares)

Things are complicated though, Redknapp and Storrie are very good mates (as was Mandaric) so I would be stunned if 'Arry was not aware of the broader financial situation at the club, and it cannot be disputed that the clubs playing staff wage bill exploded in the last few years, according to some estimates to in excess of 115% of turnover. As a rule of thumb, any club spending more than 50% of turnover on wages is considered at risk.

The club was in dire straits before the arrival of the two consortia, and I believe their problems have been caused by severely reduced liquidity of their assets brought on by the current financial crisis affecting us all, and so they cannot buy their way out of trouble.

What I cannot get my head around is how the club are still in trouble despite a number of big transfer fees for players on the way out...Soccerbase puts their sales at £77m in the last two seasons, and they should have made big returns on Diarra, Defoe and Johnson over the last 18 months. What would worry me if I were a Pompey fan is the news that the recent TV money they were due was passed directly on to other clubs by the PL including Tottenham who were supposed to have written off outstanding debt from the club in the Peter Crouch transfer. Those sales should also have reduced the wages bill by a good chunk.

My guess is that a lot of Pompey's deals over the last few years have included incremental payments coupled with bank debt, all of which is combining to cripple the club in the absence of any cash injection from the new owners.

leninbenjamin

therecklessone wrote: »

What I cannot get my head around is how the club are still in trouble despite a number of big transfer fees for players on the way out...Soccerbase puts their sales at £77m in the last two seasons, and they should have made big returns on Diarra, Defoe and Johnson over the last 18 months. What would worry me if I were a Pompey fan is the news that the recent TV money they were due was passed directly on to other clubs by the PL including Tottenham who were supposed to have written off outstanding debt from the club in the Peter Crouch transfer. Those sales should also have reduced the wages bill by a good chunk.

My guess is that a lot of Pompey's deals over the last few years have included incremental payments coupled with bank debt, all of which is combining to cripple the club in the absence of any cash injection from the new owners.

Incremental payments are practically standard now. I believe it's not unusual to see clubs receiving the bulk of a transfer fee after two or three years these days...

By the sounds of it those sales went straight into servicing debt and playing wages. Very hard to know though, it's all dodgy as f*ck with the way that club has been structured. I know I shouldn't make accusations like this without evidence, but it really wouldn't surprise me if, after the dust settles, we start to see some charges of money laundering and/or fraud.

That the TV money should be divided up amongst their creditors should be the final blow in all this, without that they are relying on attendances for their cash flow needs until the end of the season, heck even the bigger clubs would struggle if that was forced on them. I cannot see them surviving.

orourkeda

rarnes1 wrote: »

Bye bye Spurs?

They deserve it. Just for being spurs

orourkeda

therokerroar wrote: »

These petitions have been handed out to numerous clubs this season including:

Notts County
Stockport
Rochdale
Cardiff
Palace
Lewes

They probably wont go bust, what the HMRC may be doing though is setting a marker down that as we move in to January - Their backers need to either prove they have the money and pay up, or Pompey will need to sell all and sundry to make what they can and clear their debts. So I suppose there is a chance they could sell most of the first team and end up with a nigh on reserve/youth team until the end of the season.

Harry Redknapp has managed only 5 clubs in his career. Is it just coincidence? Very bad luck if it is.

Bournemouth - Been on the brink since he left and into administration at least once.
West Ham - Been on the brink since he left (forced to sell players long before the Icelandic lad took over).
Southampton - Been on the brink since he left and into administration once.
Portsmouth - Been on the brink since he left and now seemingly on the way into administration.
Spurs - Remains to be seen.

Harry Redknapp has been investigated himself hasnt he. His transfer dealings had been considered suspect and has raised the suspicions of the relevant authorities.

everdead.ie

orourkeda wrote: »

Harry Redknapp has been investigated himself hasnt he. His transfer dealings had been considered suspect and has raised the suspicions of the relevant authorities.

It's to do with tax not transfers he was investigated but subsequently got an apology from the london police he is being investigated on tax still tho

orourkeda

everdead.ie wrote: »

It's to do with tax not transfers he was investigated but subsequently got an apology from the london police he is being investigated on tax still tho

Maybe i'm getting this wrong but wasnt he involved in that corruption investigation a while back too. The one where he is allegedto have received bribes or backhanders to push through transfers

everdead.ie

orourkeda wrote: »

Maybe i'm getting this wrong but wasnt he involved in that corruption investigation a while back too. The one where he is allegedto have received bribes or backhanders to push through transfers

Yes and he recieved said apology from police

leninbenjamin

everdead.ie wrote: »

Yes and he recieved said apology from police

Primarily because they bungled the investigation like so many others. He got off more on legal technicalities than anything else, as in the police failed to fill out the form requesting a warrant properly. There are still a lot of question marks over Harry's dealings, some of which were aired on the Panorama piece.

Spiritoftheseventies

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Primarily because they bungled the investigation like so many others. He got off more on legal technicalities than anything else, as in the police failed to fill out the form requesting a warrant properly. There are still a lot of question marks over Harry's dealings, some of which were aired on the Panorama piece.

That panorama doc was hit and miss to be honest. Think big sam's son was involved if Im right and impression i got was he was playing to the camera.