Dual Mass Flywheel Issues.

Matt406

Why are so many modern diesel engines having DMF problems?
Are only certain makes and models affected with this issue??
If so what makes/models does it affect? On the models that it affects when roughly does the problem occur (at what mileage)??
Does it just affect a high percentage of certain makes/models or is it a given that if you drive a car that is known to have this problem that it will affect your car eventually??

Thanks.

It effects quite a lot of them, if you get to 100K miles on the original you are dong well, when replacing them there are non dual mass flywheels available now, the parts are about €50 extra and there is no extra labour in fitting them. Well worth considering if you intend keeping the car. They often fail well before 100K miles, I had an 05 Mondeo on 05 and the DM flywheel needed replacing at 30K kms, warrantly job at the time but not confidence inspiring.

Bee

Matt406 wrote: »

Why are so many modern diesel engines having DMF problems?
Are only certain makes and models affected with this issue??
If so what makes/models does it affect? On the models that it affects when roughly does the problem occur (at what mileage)??
Does it just affect a high percentage of certain makes/models or is it a given that if you drive a car that is known to have this problem that it will affect your car eventually??

Thanks.

I heard of it happening on 2 Toyota Avensis's

The Mazda 6 (previous edition) petrol wise had bullet proof reliability but the DMF was a known issue on the diesel (I think it shared it's enging technology with Ford)

So far no bad reports on the new Mazda6 petrol or the 2.2. L diesel since 2007

galwaytt

They are all rubbish - ever since they first appeared around 1990.

They are a consumable part, and are NOT designed to last the life of the engine or car, so you need to factor in replacing it around the 60k mile interval. This is a real, added cost to your motoring.

They are such rubbish, that even LuK are now making solid conversion kits to replace their own DMF's.

DMF's I have known personally to fail:
Mazda
Porsche
Ford
Hyundai
VAG (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda)
Nissan

Row

+ Peugeot/Citroen Hdi's also have issues....:rolleyes:

Matt406

How costly is it to replace??

Row

Matt406 wrote: »

How costly is it to replace??

Depends on make model.....But i'd guess anything from 600 - 1200 euros.

Sitec

isuzu trooper dmf decide to fcuk grease all over your clutch disc and plate too.

v300

galwaytt wrote: »

DMF's I have known personally to fail:
Mazda
Porsche
Ford
Hyundai
VAG (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda)
Nissan

Add Toyota DMF's to that list too.

colm_mcm

would I be right in saying that DMF's are taking most of the strain in modern diesel transmissions in terms of vibrations and without them the lifespan of the gearbox would be shorter?

Don't know about that to be honest, the official view is that they make the car more refined, most dealers are sick sh1t of the hassle with warranty claims etc. I don't plan on buying a car with one if I intend keeping it over 6 months or so.

aido 1976

I have a 06 Passat, I had to get the DMF replaced this year at the cost of £650 GBP. I went North to get it done, as in the South it would have cost about €1200. A huge difference.
What is it about the different car manufacturers, they have to know about the the problems with the DMF and are not doing anything about it.
FOFC some of them have released a solid fly-wheel as a spare part.

Its a money making thing ASFAIK. And if you think about it, it is mostly on German built cars.....................:)

aido 1976

aido 1976 wrote: »

I have a 06 Passat, I had to get the DMF replaced this year at the cost of £650 GBP. I went North to get it done, as in the South it would have cost about €1200. A huge difference.

Out of curiosity were you up there anyway ? Dublin to NOI is a bit of a trek there and back to get work done on a car.

aido 1976

RoverJames wrote: »

Out of curiosity were you up there anyway ? Dublin to NOI is a bit of a trek there and back to get work done on a car.

Dublin to NI it was, Making a saving. When worked out I still saved a couple of hundred of €€'s.

Im not pro NI, but when a saving is to be made, Im all for it...
The dealers have to cop on.

When the dual mass flywheel gave trouble on my Mondeo I was nervous driving the thing 2 miles to the local Ford garage, apparently they can be driven on for a good few miles though.

aido 1976

For example.......
The Passat does not have a hand brake , it has a button on the dashboard. OK
Thats is clear cut,,,,,

I had a problem with said button, booked the car into a well known north Dublin VW garage to sort out. Grand they sorted the problem with the BUTTON.........

Part cost €24.00
Total to pay €190.00 give or take a couple of euros..
€24 quid for the part and the rest for labour, a bit insane as fair as i'm concerened.

FOFC. If I had known it was just the button I would have just ordered the part and replaced it myself. It's not a big job.

Of course, I paid it. But it did make me wonder.....????

aido 1976

RoverJames wrote: »

When the dual mass flywheel gave trouble on my Mondeo I was nervous driving the thing 2 miles to the local Ford garage, apparently they can be driven on for a good few miles though.

Well from my experience, I drove a Passat for about 2 weeks with the DMF problems before the good reliable lads here on Boards, suggested that it was the DMF, and in saying that I continued to drive the car.

I did seem Iffy at times but it made it every time, even from Dublin to Belfast.

Mr Benevolent

Ah car manufacturers. Design something with an obvious flaw that allows them to sell the flawed part again and again. Look at the failing turbo fiasco. Lots of turbos failed on lots of cars. The reason? Three things contributed to the problem: poor crankcase ventilation, bad catalytic converter position (heating up oil lines going to a red hot turbo) and extended service intervals/non-synthetic oil recommendations. Still happens today.

Matt406

The old model Mazda 6 diesel seems to get a lot of bad press here on the reliability front, is this purely because of DMF issues? If so and it seems to be happening to pretty much every other make of car why all the bad press for the Mazda??
Does anyone know if the Honda Accord (old model) diesel also suffers from this problem? Also does the Honda have a timing belt or chain? If belt when is it recommended for replacement? Thanks.

PADRAIC.M

The thing with DMF'S they came out at the time common rail diesel came out because of the extra torque at low rev's compared to the old type diesel engine, as Colm said some of its job is to absorb engine vibration and give you a more refined drive, but its initial design is to lengthen the life of your clutch and mainly to give you a smooth take off. Also if you notice the more torque the car has down low the more likely it is to change the dmf at some stage, ie. You may change maybe 2 avensis flywheels in every 100 cars but upto 50 in every 100 saabs - thats in experience.

245

Matt406 wrote: »

The old model Mazda 6 diesel seems to get a lot of bad press here on the reliability front, is this purely because of DMF issues? If so and it seems to be happening to pretty much every other make of car why all the bad press for the Mazda??
Does anyone know if the Honda Accord (old model) diesel also suffers from this problem? Also does the Honda have a timing belt or chain? If belt when is it recommended for replacement? Thanks.

The older Honda diesel has a chain - not sure about the new one.

Mazda 6 diesel is reported to have significant and expensive engine problems relating to the particulate filter. This affects the 2002-2007 and 2008- models:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=70087

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=66499

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=70841

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=80526

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=80083

Same site list following issues with the Accord (2003-2008) - http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=665

Have been turbo failures on CDTIs.

Report of heavy use of rear brake pads and discs. Corrosion occurs on the
edges of the metal backing of the pads which make the pads tight in the calliper.
When the brakes are applied the pads move in towards the disc, but when the brakes are released they cannit not retract a few thou and so are constantly wearing down. Best to replace the rear pads every 12,500 miles.

Reports of heavy oil consumption as bad as 1,000km a litre on some CDTis and no low oil warning light, only oil pressure light so needs regularly checking.

Reports of mid 30s fuel consumption of early 2.2iCDTIs.

Reports of problems with electrics: central locking and electric tailgate.

Problems with ABS and VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) modules from age about 4 years old. Cost £1,600 to rerplace. But can be refurbished by www.bba-reman.com for around £300.

Problems with radio speakers.

Noisy automatic transmissions due to known software fault with transmission ECU.

Have been cases of water ingress into rear wheel bearings.

DVD Satnav is by Alpine and can be repaired by them if it goes wrong, tel Alpine Electronics 0870 3333 407. No need to buy a new unit.

Problem of 2006MY 6 speed manual boxes on diesels jumping out of 1st gear. Modification available from Honda, but parts on back order in March 2007.

Report of faulty voltage regulator on 2.2iCDTI at 20k miles.

Report of dealers charging £100 to adjust non adjustable hydraulic tappets of 2.2 diesel.

Report of dealers repeatedly overfilling with oil at services.

Numerous report of fuel strainer/fuel filter of 2.2iCDTI clogging in cold weather leading car to run in 'limp home' model.

Reports of problems with inlet manifold swirl chambers of 2.2iCDTIs at high mileage. Also of inlet manifolds cracking, emitting fumes to the cabin. Best to have replaced before the 3 year 90k mile end of warranty. Though even after, Honda will sometimes pick up the tab.

Report of cracked injectors on 2.2iCDTI after 100k miles.

Sitec

aido 1976 wrote: »

For example.......
The Passat does not have a hand brake , it has a button on the dashboard. OK
Thats is clear cut,,,,,

I had a problem with said button, booked the car into a well known north Dublin VW garage to sort out. Grand they sorted the problem with the BUTTON.........

Part cost €24.00
Total to pay €190.00 give or take a couple of euros..
€24 quid for the part and the rest for labour, a bit insane as fair as i'm concerened.

FOFC. If I had known it was just the button I would have just ordered the part and replaced it myself. It's not a big job.

Of course, I paid it. But it did make me wonder.....????

The veichle would have to be put on diagnostics to find out the fault with the button. The handbrake might have to be re calibrated with the new button installed. Thats proberly where your money went. Or else the garage has big windows.

v300

Sitec wrote: »

The handbrake might have to be re calibrated with the new button installed. Thats proberly where your money went.

Most Main Dealers charge about 100 euro's to connect up to a car and code read them.

Sitec

v300 wrote: »

Most Main Dealers charge about 100 euro's to connect up to a car and code read them.

€100 diagnostics
€24 switch
€70 labour

He saved €4 and he's giving out. hahaha:D