Will the PC ultimately win the console war?

leninbenjamin

cnocbui wrote: »

The idea of parents forking out for hard core gaming PC's, setting them up in the main living area,

Funny enough, a relative of mine is thinking of doing just that. The kids (two girls) have been pestering her to get a PC so they can 'play games' (no idea what exactly). They already have a Wii and DS so there's obviously something unique to the PC platform that appeals to them (could be a facebook game for all i know). Perhaps a sign of things to come?

cnocbui

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Completely disagree, You don't need top end components. I'm also a parent, My 11 and 12 yo son and daughter play pc games all the time (HL2, CSS, TF2 and Garys mod). They've got a 2.4Ghz core2duo and an 8800gt that were hand-me-downs when I upgraded 18 months ago. A pc which plays everything available can be got for peanuts at the moment. Most average Dells will play any game, which is what most houses buy

Santa got the young fella a 360 for xmas, he was back playing on the pc today

So if they are cheap, off-the shelf and will play any game, why have we got a thread where people talk of building PC's from components and it only costing '500 quid'?

Go to the dell.ie site and your idea of cheap as chips seems to be more than mine, they all cost more than an xBox

If a €329 Inspirion will run any game, why do the Alienware gaming machines start at €1299?

L31mr0d

cnocbui wrote: »

Go to the dell.ie site and your idea of cheap as chips seems to be more than mine, they all cost more than an xBox

They all come with a screen also. Like Pog mentioned earlier, add together the cost of a HD capable LCD TV and an Xbox and then compare it to the Dell prices.

To build a PC equal in power to an Xbox (limited to 720p) would be around the same price as an Xbox. Most of that hardware you'd probably have to buy second hand, we are talking series 7 nVidia cards.

A €500 PC built from scratch now will run games better than any console. It will also be capable of near infinite other uses.

The reason Alienware PC's are so expensive is 1) you are buying a name and 2) Some PC gamers want machines that can run games at resolutions and graphical settings that consoles can currently only dream about.

PogMoThoin

cnocbui wrote: »

So if they are cheap, off-the shelf and will play any game, why have we got a thread where people talk of building PC's from components and it only costing '500 quid'?

Go to the dell.ie site and your idea of cheap as chips seems to be more than mine, they all cost more than an xBox

If a €329 Inspirion will run any game, why do the Alienware gaming machines start at €1299?

A €500 Dell is well capable of playing any game, as long as it has a proper dedicated graphics card. An Alienware pc is just a €500 Dell pc with an expensive badge, no difference, same components, same pc.

jhegarty

cnocbui wrote: »

But your graphic starts in 1998 , the consoles there would have been the ps1,n64 and dreamcast.

Those consoles are now long gone.

In 10 years time there won't be a ps3 or xbox 360 market , but there will be a pc one.

cnocbui

jhegarty wrote: »

But your graphic starts in 1998 , the consoles there would have been the ps1,n64 and dreamcast.

Those consoles are now long gone.

In 10 years time there won't be a ps3 or xbox 360 market , but there will be a pc one.

Where the chart starts is irrelevant, what is important is the trend at the end.

In the face of that trend it is ludicrous talking of a PC market prevailing as if the xbox and PS3 markets won't have been replaced with something else.

Venom

cnocbui wrote: »

I am a parent. The consoles have won. Arguments about how many PC's there are in the world or how many homes have one are just mindless numbers. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of these are spec'd for high end gaming.

Xbox 360 elite on Amazon - €200

1 year Xbox live subscription - €30

1 Xbox N class WiFi network adapter - €65


The idea of parents forking out for hard core gaming PC's, setting them up in the main living area, because that is where the 50" plasma is, and keeping them running and putting up with the 'Dad, I can't play the latest version of geekdreamon with out the latest graphics card' - which will probably cost as much as an entire 360 - every 14 months - is just pure fantasy.

High end PC gaming is for geeks. Thinking it is the future of gaming is naive, wishful thinking fantasy.

It's all about money:


http://www.industrygamers.com/galleries/opinion-who-killed-pc-gaming/

For a start you dont need a high end gaming spec'ed PC to play the latest games as had been proven by posters above a €500 PC that will outperform current generation consoles with ease. And while looking at the issue of cost's maybe long term figures such as games that cost half the price of console games, free online play, cheaper DLC options, better and cheaper controler options, much better interface for the web not to mention all the old PC features accounts, music, movies, mobile phone linking and email all for the great free price we all love unlike the get charged for every damm thing you do option the consoles stick you with.

The idea of PC's needing to be upgraded every year and a bit to play the latest games is a myth and a more realistic figure is around the 3-4 year mark. Hell GPU's that are over two generations old still kick the crap out of current batch of consoles never mind the latest ATI monsters or the new Nvida stuff coming out later this year.

Blowfish

cnocbui wrote: »

Where the chart starts is irrelevant, what is important is the trend at the end.

In the face of that trend it is ludicrous talking of a PC market prevailing as if the xbox and PS3 markets won't have been replaced with something else.

The article where that chart originated from has been posted before and frankly, it's a load of crap.

p.s. WoW has added another million subs since then and Wotlk broke yet another sales record. Not exactly signs of a dying platform.

Venom

Blowfish wrote: »

The article where that chart originated from has been posted before and frankly, it's a load of crap.

p.s. WoW has added another million subs since then. Not exactly signs of a dying platform.

Not to mention the Asian style MMO's that make WoW subscription figures look like peanuts

Dublin_Gunner

And while a €500 PC can be a LOT better than a console it is more expensive. (I personally added a fair few builds to that thread, one including 4gb ram, 3 core CPU, and HD4870).

Try playing the amount of games on a PC on a Xbox/PS3/Wii - not happening.


Sure, if you want just pure gaming, nothing else, then fair enough, consoles are probably your better bet.

Reasons being, if thats what you want, you probably have no interest in PC gaming, hardware, brilliant graphics, encoding video's, working in photoshop, indesign, flash, web development, photography, creating home videos, doing ANY office work, torrents, home networking etc etc or any other mundane PC stuff like that.... Oh, and a keyboard as standard.

I love my PC. I have an Xbox 360.

360 is for Beatles Rockband & Pes. Thats all.

Oh, and no way am I paying MS for the priviledge of using my internet connection (I do know this does not apply to PS3 / Wii)

Blowfish

Venom wrote: »

Not to mention the Asian style MMO's that make WoW subscription figures look like peanuts

Indeed, and that is part of what people are missing.

PC gaming has shifted somewhat away from the traditional 'buy game in shop' market which most consoles are still using. Things like digital distribution, 'casual' games, subscription MMO's, pay by the hour MMO's, 'item mall' games have all increased hugely in popularity. This has made it impossible to keep track of how much revenue is generated by pc gaming or how big the market is and is why attempting to compare pc vs consoles is pretty much pointless.

As Overheal pointed out, the consoles battle it out directly while the PC does it's own thing.

mayordenis

Alot of people arguments are kinda killed by the simple truth that (lets just say you only have a bog standard home PC like basically everyone has now) you probably all have a PC in your house worth approx €400/500 + a PS3/XBOX that cost €200/300 maybe both, and that for the same Price you would get a PC that absolutely annihilates either the PS3 or Xbox, anyone posting from a PC on this thread in favour of consoles being the cheaper option should take into account the PC they currently have and the PC most prospective games most likely already have.

Fnz

gizmo wrote: »

leninbenjamin wrote: »

There is as much evidence to suggest piracy can increase sales as there is to suggest it harms it...

That I do not accept in the slightest. In terms of music, one need only look at the fall in revenue in the US to see this. Note, not fall in CD sales as that can be explained by digital distribution but actual falls in company revenues. The counter argument here is that as company revenues fall, artist revenues were seen to increase but in the context of game development there is no comparison.

As for games there has been multiple examples of developers looking into this themselves, for example MW1, World Of Goo and a couple of iPhone developers, and they have found that those people who pirate their games rarely go on to purchase them, simply by the fact that a significant time after release the same users are still online playing their pirated copies.

Regarding your music industry example, here's an article that lends credence to leninbenjamin's claim. [Link]

mewso

I am and always have been a die-hard PC Gamer and have never owned a console. I would willingly accept I've missed good games for this but my love of gaming is based on immersion and I get that sitting in front of the screen with mouse and keyboard.

Sadly though I can't see the PC winning against consoles tbh. Developers can't be bothered, publishers can't be bothered and the shops are just about bothered to leave one shelf free for PC games these days. This is a combo-blow against the PC that just convinces most mindsets that it's a niche market.

It's a pity really because of some of the innovation I have witnessed since I had a PC 286 have been staggering. I find it difficult to see more of that in the future as more and more dev houses aim to be multi-platform and some develop for consoles first and eventually deliver a weak PC port a year later.

What looks like keeping it alive as a gaming platform is indie devs and MMOs. The Indie area could be interesting but could also just serve up a series of above average puzzle games. Who knows. MMOs just never will be for me. I just can't find the enthusiasm for wandering around a fantasy world with 15 year olds when I could be wandering around a more convincing world created by talented devs for the single player experience. It really bugs me when a big franchise goes MMO instead of getting a top notch RPG or Shooter out there. Anyway thats just my opinion.

I just replayed Half-Life from start to Half-Life 2 Episode 2 and it still stands head and shoulders above almost anything I have ever played (bar Deus Ex maybe). Ignoring the failure that is the Half-Life (one every 6 months - mmmm k) episodes it's still a game everyone should play while hunched over their keyboard and mouse staring at this wonderfully realised world regardless of some imaginary war with consoles.

Maximilian

cnocbui wrote: »

I am a parent. The consoles have won. Arguments about how many PC's there are in the world or how many homes have one are just mindless numbers. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of these are spec'd for high end gaming.

Xbox 360 elite on Amazon - €200

1 year Xbox live subscription - €30

1 Xbox N class WiFi network adapter - €65


The idea of parents forking out for hard core gaming PC's, setting them up in the main living area, because that is where the 50" plasma is, and keeping them running and putting up with the 'Dad, I can't play the latest version of geekdreamon with out the latest graphics card' - which will probably cost as much as an entire 360 - every 14 months - is just pure fantasy.

High end PC gaming is for geeks. Thinking it is the future of gaming is naive, wishful thinking fantasy.

It's all about money:



http://www.industrygamers.com/galleries/opinion-who-killed-pc-gaming/

In that article they say "So what's killed core PC gaming at retail". My answer to that is digital distribution. I haven't bought a game at retail in maybe 18 months. I buy a lot of games. Those figures and that chart comes as no surprise to me.

The bottom line is if PC gaming was dead/dying there wouldn't be so many games for it.

Dcully

Maximilian wrote: »

In that article they say "So what's killed core PC gaming at retail". My answer to that is digital distribution. I haven't bought a game at retail in maybe 18 months. I buy a lot of games. Those figures and that chart comes as no surprise to me.

The bottom line is if PC gaming was dead/dying there wouldn't be so many games for it.

Likewise, i havent bought a retail game for pc in the last few years, however i have bought quite a few via digital distribution.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

PogMoThoin wrote: »

A €500 Dell is well capable of playing any game, as long as it has a proper dedicated graphics card. An Alienware pc is just a €500 Dell pc with an expensive badge, no difference, same components, same pc.

:rolleyes: really...

Either way, if you are going to buy a dell or alienware PC, you deserve all the crap that comes with it. Go to a proper dealer and that 500 euro will buy you a proper machine... Dell are for families, not gamers.

GothPunk wrote: »

That's a very relevant example for me as whilst I've moved over to consoles for the majority of my gaming within the past 2 years, I still don't really like FPS games on consoles. I would have never gotten addicted to TF2 like I did on the PC if I was playing it on a console.

This brings me nicely onto another point about consoles and I think people have already been making it in this thread in relation to the hardware - in some respects, console games appeal to the lowest common denominator a lot more than a PC games do, and for this reason I don't see the PC 'ultimately winning the console war'. Consoles games are like Michael Bay films - they're expensive to make but make a lot of money because they're easy for the average Jane or Joe to pick up, understand and appreciate all the nice explosions. If we take some of the biggest selling console games, say Halo and Metal Gear, I'd say they fit the description quite well. Even the Final Fantasy games, which are some of the more complex biggest sellers of all time, are simplified with respect to other games within the same genre.

So if the biggest selling console games are epic and flashy, yet easy to understand and pick up, what are the biggest selling PC games? The Sims franchise is the biggest, and whilst it may appear simple the level of micromanagement is very typical of PC games (it seems fitting here to point out that the console versions of The Sims games are much easier and involve less micromanagement).

The Sims games also have a huge modding and creating community, demonstrating another difference between console games and PC games - the game experiences can expand beyond what the developer intended through mod support. Game modding is perhaps one of the greatest things about PC gaming, but surely it is easy to appreciate it is a more niche interest. One of my favourite console games, LittleBigPlanet, brings modding in the form of level creation to consoles in a much more user friendly format which is perhaps more appropriate for consoles. Modding a PC game requires a lot more dedication - something which is perhaps indicative of PC gamers in general.

Are PC games more complex because that's what PC gamers have always demanded? Do they sell more poorly because of this? Is the opposite true for consoles games and gamers (less complex, better sales)? Edit: As leninbenjamin points out, this is already coming true for the PC - the less complex social networking casual games are where the growth is on the PC it seems.

Couldn't we say that there are certain genres that excel on certain platforms compared to others? Perhaps the most accurate statement would be that we feel better served by the PC for certain genres? For me anyway this is true. I enjoy strategy games, MMOs and FPS games, genres which I fele are much better served by the PC. I also enjoy action adventure games, platformers, driving games, RPGs (particularly Japanese RPGs), shmups and fighting games, which I think work much better on consoles and handheld gaming devices. If you look at the biggest selling games in each genre, you'll see they match this platform breakdown. Apart from the FPS, MMO and strategy genres, the PC doesn't excel as well in as many genres as some of the consoles do, and for that reason I don't think the PC is winning the console war. Edit: However, the casual market has to be taken into account here, which the PC and iPhone, and to a lesser extent the Wii, DS and perhaps the PSP are also exploiting. The HD consoles are at least attempting to appeal to the casual market with new motion controllers, but it remains to be seen what this does for growing the user base.

If Valve and Blizzard weren't developing awesome games for the PC, what state would it be in?

That made for a nice read

Cunny-Funt

You could build your own PC for 300 squid (not including monitor) that'd be far more powerful then the consoles.

PC hardware is really cheap, and the games look and play better. & no longer is it more expensive.


So all those silly console noobs talkin about 600 euro graphics cards being bought every two feckin weeks "just to keep up with the consoles" need to look up what they're talking about.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

You could build your own PC for 300 squid (not including monitor) that'd be far more powerful then the consoles.

PC hardware is really cheap, and the games look and play better. & no longer is it more expensive.


So all those silly console noobs talkin about 600 euro graphics cards being bought every two feckin weeks "just to keep up with the consoles" need to look up what they're talking about.

Lol so true, I have never spent that much on a graphics card. You could spend a lot on SLI and the likes, but what is the point?

It is the best time now to get a PC built. The hardware is so cheap. You can spend 3K+ on a PC, with water cooling, and all that jazz but that is not needed. Better to get a good PC for about 600 700 and upgrade it every 2 years. I still have to upgrade my PC, I said earlier it's 18 months old, it's actually 30 months old. My bad.

gizmo

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

You could build your own PC for 300 squid (not including monitor) that'd be far more powerful then the consoles.

Okay then, go to Komplett and do it. Post a link to your cart when you're done.

I want a case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive, DVD drive, PSU, keyboard, mouse AND a legit Windows operating system. You don't need to include a monitor.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

PC hardware is really cheap, and the games look and play better. & no longer is it more expensive.

Games are indeed cheaper but the "play better" thing is silly, for instance sports and racing games do NOT play better on the PC.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

So all those silly console noobs talkin about 600 euro graphics cards being bought every two feckin weeks "just to keep up with the consoles" need to look up what they're talking about.

I completely agree, however comments such as those above are at the other end of the spectrum.

Also, people using WoW as a reason why PC gaming is still going strong need to look at the slew of other MMOs which have entered the market and been utterly creamed by it. Truth of the matter is, a platform/genre cannot survive on the strength of one game alone. Sure WoW is popular now but that support will eventually wane and unless Blizzard can release another version which can hold onto the WoW market then the user base will become fragmented and, imo anyway, die off somewhat, certainly from the figures we're seeing now.

mayordenis wrote: »

Alot of people arguments are kinda killed by the simple truth that (lets just say you only have a bog standard home PC like basically everyone has now) you probably all have a PC in your house worth approx €400/500 + a PS3/XBOX that cost €200/300 maybe both, and that for the same Price you would get a PC that absolutely annihilates either the PS3 or Xbox, anyone posting from a PC on this thread in favour of consoles being the cheaper option should take into account the PC they currently have and the PC most prospective games most likely already have.

One of the most relevant points so far made on the thread and also on of the principle reasons PC gaming is where it is.

Fnz wrote: »

Regarding your music industry example, here's an article that lends credence to leninbenjamin's claim. [Link]

I don't doubt for a second that piracy has allowed people to experience far more music than they would have had under normal circumstances. That being said, not everyone who finds that new music they like will then go and buy it. This is unfortunately true in other areas of media also.

Just think about this, honestly - look a the number of high capacity iPods out there, anywhere from 32-160GB. Now look at the people who own them - a wide demographic which includes a considerable number of people whose technical competency maxes out at using Youtube and putting music on their iPod. Now, do you really think that these people are filling their iPods with their own ripped music or stuff bought from iTunes? Really?

Venom

Tessa Prehistoric Racketeering wrote: »

Lol so true, I have never spent that much on a graphics card. You could spend a lot on SLI and the likes, but what is the point?

It is the best time now to get a PC built. The hardware is so cheap. You can spend 3K+ on a PC, with water cooling, and all that jazz but that is not needed. Better to get a good PC for about 600 700 and upgrade it every 2 years. I still have to upgrade my PC, I said earlier it's 18 months old, it's actually 30 months old. My bad.

Those 3k+ PC's tend to be aimed at fools with far to much money who think the Dell or Alienware website's offer the best of the best. These buyers are more interested in e-penis size than having a good PC imho.

Venom

gizmo wrote: »

Okay then, go to Komplett and do it. Post a link to your cart when you're done.

I want a case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive, DVD drive, PSU, keyboard, mouse AND a legit Windows operating system. You don't need to include a monitor.



Also, people using WoW as a reason why PC gaming is still going strong need to look at the slew of other MMOs which have entered the market and been utterly creamed by it. Truth of the matter is, a platform/genre cannot survive on the strength of one game alone. Sure WoW is popular now but that support will eventually wane and unless Blizzard can release another version which can hold onto the WoW market then the user base will become fragmented and, imo anyway, die off somewhat, certainly from the figures we're seeing now.

Check out the building and upgrading forum for the answer to your first question.

And your WoW comments show a lack of understanding of current MMO games. EQ2 and Lotro are still going strong with regular expansion packs being released for them. Games such as AoC and Warhammer failed due to the games being released in very unfinished states so no surprise they didn't do to well.

wayne040576

Venom wrote: »

Check out the building and upgrading forum for the answer to your first question.

And your WoW comments show a lack of understanding of current MMO games. EQ2 and Lotro are still going strong with regular expansion packs being released for them. Games such as AoC and Warhammer failed due to the games being released in very unfinished states so no surprise they didn't do to well.

There's one here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055756373

They almost have it but are missing a legit copy of windows and a good case.
I did it yesterday in 5 mins and got a build for 406 quid without a case and OS. I could've cut the hard drive, maybe gone with a cheaper cpu and removed the cpu cooler (bad idea, I've had some thermal issues with my pc lately).

The one important thing is that a legit copy of windows is going to cost about a 100 quid. An oem xp disc may be cheaper (is it possible to get these any more?)

Bigdeadlydave

A couple of years ago I got a Dell laptop for my birthday. It wasn't intended for gaming at all, basically its a glorified netbook. Used it for the net etc but then one day I decided to play a few games on it. It wont play any recent games (last 2-3 years) but it handles WoW and a lotta strategy games. Some posters here are arguing that the consoles will win this "war" due to there simple "plug n play" aspects. The only games I buy for PC are ones I think will work, so basically any of the "sold out" boxed classic games.
Anyway I recently got some money together and was considering getting a new PC. My friends all recommended building my own and to be perfectly honest it seems to be too much hassle. Maybe this isnt the case but it is how it seems to me. So I got a PS3 instead and am very happy with it. And for those who like the mice and keyboard combo, cant you get them for the PS3?
I think there is a market for both. For the most part strategy games don't work on consoles. Could you ever imagine playing RTW on a console?
To me PC gaming seems a bit too complicated. I like the assurance that if I buy a game it will work, no questions asked, no mucking around with settings. Many of my friends download games for the simple reason that they don't have the $ to go buy a game and not have it work.
But then again I love mods, ones for Civ being a prime example.
Pcs will never replace consoles, and consoles will never replace pcs.

Stercus Accidit

I saw a big sign in gamestop proclaiming "No refunds on PC games" or something to that effect.

To most lay gamers its too much hassle to know the specs of a pc, the requirements of a game, and setting it up right.

I don't have the space for a desktop, I use a laptop exclusively, but I would love a PC, I have fallout 3 and oblivion on the xbox, and the amount of user generated content I'm missing out on is criminal.

gizmo

Venom wrote: »

And your WoW comments show a lack of understanding of current MMO games. EQ2 and Lotro are still going strong with regular expansion packs being released for them. Games such as AoC and Warhammer failed due to the games being released in very unfinished states so no surprise they didn't do to well.

I think you're missing the point somewhat - WoW has 10m+ players, EQ2 as of Feb 09 (only figures I can find) had 500k and LOTR is estimated at 200k although that cannot be confirmed as Turbine don't release those figures. The point being, while these games may have the user base to continue functioning that does not mean they can be compared with the industry altering figures of WoW.

wayne040576 wrote: »

There's one here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055756373

They almost have it but are missing a legit copy of windows and a good case.
I did it yesterday in 5 mins and got a build for 406 quid without a case and OS. I could've cut the hard drive, maybe gone with a cheaper cpu and removed the cpu cooler (bad idea, I've had some thermal issues with my pc lately).

The one important thing is that a legit copy of windows is going to cost about a 100 quid. An oem xp disc may be cheaper (is it possible to get these any more?)

None of those builds contain a graphics card or peripherals and are already more than the cost of a 360 Elite, nevermind a PS3. OEM Windows is legit if bought with other hardware though, right?

Anyway, as mayordenis and I said above, the PCs being built in those posts are not the "budget PCs" found in typical homes and it is these typical homes which have been buying consoles en masse for the last two generations. Thus while I am interested in seeing these console-beating-PCs-for-the-same-price, I am still of the opinion that they are not comparable in this debate.

Cunny-Funt

gizmo wrote: »

Okay then, go to Komplett and do it. Post a link to your cart when you're done.

I want a case, motherboard, CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive, DVD drive, PSU, keyboard, mouse AND a legit Windows operating system. You don't need to include a monitor.

You already have a case a hard drive and a dvd drive and windows if you have a pc.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/cart.aspx

I chucked in win7 anyway and you can pick up a case for 40 euro in some places. With out win 7 that's 245 euro.

**edit**

incase the cart link doesnt work :

GPU http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=485787

MOBO RAM CPU : http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=579077

PSU http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=340760

win7 http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=500038

340 euro

gizmo wrote: »

Games are indeed cheaper but the "play better" thing is silly, for instance sports and racing games do NOT play better on the PC.

Silly? How exaclty does a sports game not play better, and as for RACING LOL man, just as with flight sims, if your really into racing games, the pc has been the place to be for years. All the hard core race sims are on the PC , why'd yea think theres full racing kits for PC with pedals and gear sticks, seats, wheels etc Consoles are only catching up to that stuff now with forza and GT5 but ask any hard core racing sim fan and they'll swear by the pc.

Note I have a ps3 and will be getting GT5, and I'm not a hardcore racing game fan either, but saying racing games do not play better on the PC just screams "I havnt a clue about PC gaming, sure they all play solitaire"

gizmo wrote: »

I completely agree, however comments such as those above are at the other end of the spectrum.

Well I'm taking the piss a bit obviously

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

those who like the mice and keyboard combo, cant you get them for the PS3?

The day console games from the get go support a mouse and KB it'll be a big hit to pc gaming. I could see a lot more pc gamers spending more time on a console as a result.

However console gamers tend to start crying that its unfair if they add M&KB to console games cause all the M&KB players will kick the **** out of 'em.

Also having a game with full mouse support is more taxing on the console as well. Devs can push a bit more out of the graphics on a game if the player has to spend half an hour looking around. Dodgy low frame rates and slow downs are far more noticeable with a mouse.

leninbenjamin

gizmo wrote: »

Games are indeed cheaper but the "play better" thing is silly, for instance sports and racing games do NOT play better on the PC.

If you mean to suggest they are better on consoles, then I say bollox to that! I've been playing racing and sports games on the PC since the days of MSDOS. Overall, there is little between them, however I will always go with the PC version, for one crucial reason; most PC ports allow you to totally rebind the keys and that can be a massive massive boon in something like FIFA. Drives me daft having to relearn the controls for every console title...

There is a notable exception however, I've noticed EA have recently started crippling their FIFA ports for reasons that remain largely unknown. However, this is primarily in the form of missing components from the rendering pipeline. Perhaps it's laziness, perhaps they want to encourage play on netbooks, or they just want to push the Console versions in order to placate Sony and MS? Who knows...

gizmo

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

You already have a case a hard drive and a dvd drive and windows if you have a pc.

That's not the purpose of this exercise, we're trying to compare the price of a fully functioning PC capable of beating a console with either a 360 or PS3. Therefore these components must be included in the price. Sorry for being a sticker on this but if people want to continuously state they exist then it should be easy to post one here. Given the necessity of a subscription for online play on the 360 I'll set the bar at €300.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Silly? How exaclty does a sports game not play better...

Because a game of Fifa/Pro Evo on a PC won't be as good as playing on your console from the comfort of your couch with some mates gathered around the TV. Exceptions to this setup do exist but not in the average household of course. And not, I'm not arguing one is "better" than the other, I just find certain genres more suited to one platform than the other.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

...and as for RACING LOL man, just as with flight sims, if your really into racing games, the pc has been the place to be for years. All the hard core race sims are on the PC , why'd yea think theres full racing kits for PC with pedals and gear sticks, seats, wheels etc Consoles are only catching up to that stuff now with forza and GT5 but ask any hard core racing sim fan and they'll swear by the pc.

Quite true regarding the hardcore racing fans but a) hardcore fans will not save the PC and b) I'm pretty sure no hardcore racing sim on the PC in the last 10 years has outsold the GT or Forza iterations.

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Note I have a ps3 and will be getting GT5, and I'm not a hardcore racing game fan either, but saying racing games do not play better on the PC just screams "I havnt a clue about PC gaming, sure they all play solitaire"

I'm quite aware of PC gaming actually, until this generation of consoles I hadn't owned one since the SNES and was exclusively a PC gamer. Hell, I still refuse to buy multi-platform FPS games on the console because "they belong on the PC with a kb/m duh" and the mere thought of an RTS game on a console gives me a severe headache. What I am, unfortunately, is a realist and as such can't blindly support the PC (at least as we know it now) as the "winner" in the games context when there is so much evidence to the contrary.

Blowfish

gizmo wrote:

Also, people using WoW as a reason why PC gaming is still going strong need to look at the slew of other MMOs which have entered the market and been utterly creamed by it. Truth of the matter is, a platform/genre cannot survive on the strength of one game alone. Sure WoW is popular now but that support will eventually wane and unless Blizzard can release another version which can hold onto the WoW market then the user base will become fragmented and, imo anyway, die off somewhat, certainly from the figures we're seeing now

You are completely underestimating the longevity of MMO's. Lineage was released in 1998. At it's peak it had about 2 million subscribers. 11 years on, it still has almost 1 million subscribers.

gizmo wrote: »

I think you're missing the point somewhat - WoW has 10m+ players, EQ2 as of Feb 09 (only figures I can find) had 500k and LOTR is estimated at 200k although that cannot be confirmed as Turbine don't release those figures. The point being, while these games may have the user base to continue functioning that does not mean they can be compared with the industry altering figures of WoW.

Players wise, WoW isn't anywhere near the biggest. Maple story has over 100 million accounts total. Farmville had 56 million playing in September.

Concurrent users wise, Zhengtu Online's peak is 2.1 million, Fantasy Westward Journey has hit 1.5 million. WoW by comparison hasn't yet hit 1 million.

I think people are severely underestimating how huge a percentage of gaming the MMO market actually is. I've already shown how large the numbers are, so lets look at revenue. Perfect example, Lineage as mentioned earlier:

Even if we assume there were only ever 1 million subscribers, 1,000,000x$15(per month)x12(months)x11(years) = a revenue of 2 billion.

By comparison, the entire Halo franchise has brought in 1 billion.

Even things like LoTRO, which as you mentioned as being much smaller fry. 200,000x15(per month)x32(months)+(box sales, 200,000x2(expansion)x40) = $112 million. Not exactly struggling are they.