Will the PC ultimately win the console war?

PogMoThoin

Herbal Deity

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Let me just state that in my opinion PCs are the best medium for gaming, nothing beats a mouse and keyboard, there are great games that can't be reproduced on consoles and there are a million other benefits.

I noticed this and I've seen people express this opinion before you also.

Going back as far as the Dreamcast, and perhaps even before, there've been mouses and keyboards available for consoles. Though I don't have any of them, these days I'm sure any USB mouse or keyboard can be used with any of the modern consoles. Now I know the problem is that the location of consoles in a house usually isn't the best for using a mouse and keyboard.

If/when wireless takes off, it's extremely feasible that a console could be accessed from either a TV with a console controller, or from a monitor on a desk with a mouse and keyboard.

I really don't think there are millions of benefits to PC gaming, and certainly none which won't be doable on the consoles of the future.

Fnz

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

5-10 years ago, pretty much everyone who had a computer had a desktop PC. A family PC is bought and one of the kids learns all about it, gets interested in playing games and upgrading it's parts etc.

Nobody buys desktop PCs anymore, it's all laptops and wifi these days. There's no incentive for a family who have pretty much everything they want on a laptop to then purchase an additional desktop purely for gameplay. That is exactly why there has been a huge resurgence in consoles in the past 3-5 years.

Good point, I was going to suggest that, if people were going to have a PC in the house anyway, spending 'the amount a console would cost' , extra would leave them with a pretty decent gaming PC. But I can believe that people are finding that 'good enough' really is good enough and turning to solutions less intrusive than having a dedicated PC 'area' in their home. Your money doesn't go as far when upgrading laptops or even netbooks (as some will settle for).

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

the (sad) fact is that there are young children around now who'll enter their 'gaming' years with fairly little experience of desktops.

I, pretty much, exclusively played console games until college so maybe the age profile of pc gamers will average out older than console gamers (with the gap increasing, going forward). Mid thirties is the current average I've heard bandied about for all gamers.

Fnz

Herbal Deity wrote: »

these days I'm sure any USB mouse or keyboard can be used with any of the modern consoles. Now I know the problem is that the location of consoles in a house usually isn't the best for using a mouse and keyboard.

Xbox 360 currently doesn't work with a keyboard or mouse. PS3 does, dunno about Wii.

Edit: Not certain about that now. Didn't think the 360 allowed it beyond the controller keypad attachment. PS3 allows connection of keyboard for text entry. Thought it worked with some FPS but after a quick google I'm not seeing any definitive answers.

Herbal Deity wrote: »

If/when wireless takes off, it's extremely feasible that a console could be accessed from either a TV with a console controller, or from a monitor on a desk with a mouse and keyboard.

I really don't think there are millions of benefits to PC gaming, and certainly none which won't be doable on the consoles of the future.

Yeah, well they are becoming more like PCs. Who knows what the future holds. It would be awesome to be able to play games on any display in my house from the one device easily and lag free.

Making It Bad

The argument that gaming capable PCs will set you back 1000s of euro is a joke. My gaming PC cost me €650 (excluding mouse/keyboard, monitor). It can run any game maxed settings with at least x2 AA. On top of that I would have been buying a new desktop anyway which would have cost at least €450, so you could argue that the gaming capabilities of my PC cost me €200, the price of a 360, cheaper than a PS3. And let me just say that internet browsing and HD videos is a pleasure with such a powerful PC.

PC games are ridiculously cheaper than their console counterparts (€3.75 for Mass Effect in steam sale anyone?).

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Going back as far as the Dreamcast, and perhaps even before, there've been mouses and keyboards available for consoles. Though I don't have any of them, these days I'm sure any USB mouse or keyboard can be used with any of the modern consoles. Now I know the problem is that the location of consoles in a house usually isn't the best for using a mouse and keyboard.

Completely not true. The PS3 support keyboards + mouse but only for its web browser not for games, the only PS3 I can think of which has mouse support in Unreal Tournament 3, which was a miserable fail both critically and financially.

The Xbox 360 has keyboard support but not for any games, you can only use it to type messages to your friends.

PogMoThoin

Making It Bad wrote: »

The Xbox 360 has keyboard support but not for any games, you can only use it to type messages to your friends.

Yeah, and its not even got a browser, FFS, how fcuked up is that?

Fnz

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

hooradiation wrote: »

So your response to "stop being an elitist cock" is to be an elitist cock and imply people who aren't just like you are mouth breathing simpletons.

*slow clap*
Bra-fucking-vo, well done.


At least i am now justified in the level of contempt i have for you and every opinion you hold.

hehe sigh, its a hard world being right.




Nah just messin, take it easy man. I mean your issue was with my use of the term 'console noobs' I wasn't referring to all console users, just those with ignorant notions on PC gaming. These people exist.

Mentioning them or acknowledging that they exist doesn't make someone elitist. I never said you or all console gamers are one of these types of people. I have a console myself sure.
Its nothing to do with "being just like me".

You implying that people who view the police academy movies as the best movies ever are "mouth breathing simpletons" makes you far more elisits than me, by your own logic.

Its amusing how personal you take my post, so much so that you resort to insults lol.

*Joke*.

*Scoundrel get-out excuse*. Don't take anything I say seriously. Sure my massive generalizations probably weren't about anyone you know so what's the problem?

*I have no concept of how 'intent' isn't conveyed via forum posts* Just cause I sounded elitist doesn't make it so. I just lack any semblance of tact.

I'm not *blank*... in fact, I think you're *blank*!!!

*Condescending final sentence* lol.


"There, that should put things right".

Greyfox

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I do accept that there may be people who view the police academy movies as the best movies ever made. That is their opinion alright but at the same time I'm well aware their opinion is wrong:P :pac:

Fair point, some people have dumb opinions that aren't worth listening to. But in the case of preferring console gaming to PC gaming just walk into your local Game or Smiths and see how many console games are on sale their, lots of these people that buy these games have PC's or laptops at home, surely their wouldn't be so many console games been sold if their was no hassle with PC gaming!

Herbal Deity

Making It Bad wrote: »

Completely not true. The PS3 support keyboards + mouse but only for its web browser not for games, the only PS3 I can think of which has mouse support in Unreal Tournament 3, which was a miserable fail both critically and financially.

The Xbox 360 has keyboard support but not for any games, you can only use it to type messages to your friends.

Fair enough. I don't play games these days, so don't own any of the newer consoles.

Quake 3 on Dreamcast comes to mind as a game from back in the day which could be played with a mouse and keyboard and received huge praise. I'm surprised modern consoles don't have similar support.

Then again, just about every innovative feature on DC was at least 10 years ahead of its time...

Venom

Greyfox wrote: »

Fair point, some people have dumb opinions that aren't worth listening to. But in the case of preferring console gaming to PC gaming just walk into your local Game or Smiths and see how many console games are on sale their, lots of these people that buy these games have PC's or laptops at home, surely their wouldn't be so many console games been sold if their was no hassle with PC gaming!

Most of the PC gamers I know tend to use digital downloads or buy online as picking up a new game for half price online compaired to shop prices is hard to turn down

PC games dont do well in the 2nd hand market unlike console games and if you take away the amount of space dedicated to the 2nd hand console games the amount of shelf space between Xbox/Wii/PS3 and PC really isn't that much from what Iv seen in most of the Dublin game shops.

Cunny-Funt

Greyfox wrote: »

Fair point, some people have dumb opinions that aren't worth listening to. But in the case of preferring console gaming to PC gaming just walk into your local Game or Smiths and see how many console games are on sale their, lots of these people that buy these games have PC's or laptops at home, surely their wouldn't be so many console games been sold if their was no hassle with PC gaming!

Ultimately my opinion is that for the higher end experience the top quality end of gaming. The pc is the platform. I understand joe casual gamer might not want or appreciate that aspect of gaming. What annoys me is when that person insists that they , not the PC gamers , are actually the high end of gaming. Instead of just accepting consoles for what they are.

Most of the music that sells is pop music, not exactly Mozart. & yeah most people would more than likely rather watch a police academy film over Citizen Kane, that's fine, just don't claim its as good or on the same level. Accept it for what it is, a casual fun movie. Which we all enjoy from time to time.

I have a PS3 for when I feel like that type of gaming from time to time. I understand the appeal of gaming in your sitting room with a big tv.



@ FNZ

Fair enough , amusing post. Although I do have tact and I'm well aware of what I'm saying.



Love this pic :cool:

Kinetic^

dreamers75 wrote: »

Agreed with everything up until that, Galaxy is a good game a kind of game which is in the past but its a good game nonetheless and well worth playing till you cleared it.


Wii is a toy but its nintendos toy and they make good ****ing games.

It's a grand game but not worthy of being called a next gen game. Could've been done on the N64 easily.

oceanclub

Venom wrote: »

Most of the PC gamers I know tend to use digital downloads or buy online as picking up a new game for half price online compaired to shop prices is hard to turn down

Just checking my own online purchases, and in 2009, I spent €257.26 in 2009 on 33 PC games online (both digital download and retail). In that period I think I bought one game in a store (L4D2 for €25).

P.

Overheal

I never even thought of it that way. I always buy when theres a sale on. I probably spent $200 on games in the last 12 months, if it were a console that would have got me maybe 5 or 6 games? Instead I've gotten

L4D
L4d2
Oblivion
Bioshock
Torchlight
Dawn of War 2
Riddick
Doom Collection
Civ 4 Complete
Prince of Persia Trilogy
Stalker
Shattered Horizon
Withcer
Plants vs. Zombies
Osmos
Max Payne
Sins of a Solar Empire Entrenchment


In terms of dollars and cents consoles may or may not have a lead (again you need to factor MMO subscriptions). Whether or not any of that is an indicator of PC Gaming success or failure is debatable.

And now ive just ripped the shrink off my Forced Unleashed for Wii - while entertaining its hard to get away from the fact that its a bunch of button mashing and wand waving, and looks to be in 800x600 or lower resolution with a terrible poly count. You could easily run this game on your mother's office machine, assuming it had even a basic graphics card.

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

I never even thought of it that way. I always buy when theres a sale on. I probably spent $200 on games in the last 12 months, if it were a console that would have got me maybe 5 or 6 games? Instead I've gotten

L4D
L4d2
Oblivion
Bioshock
Torchlight
Dawn of War 2
Riddick
Doom Collection
Civ 4 Complete
Prince of Persia Trilogy
Stalker
Shattered Horizon
Withcer
Plants vs. Zombies
Osmos
Max Payne
Sins of a Solar Empire Entrenchment


In terms of dollars and cents consoles may or may not have a lead (again you need to factor MMO subscriptions). Whether or not any of that is an indicator of PC Gaming success or failure is debatable.

And now ive just ripped the shrink off my Forced Unleashed for Wii - while entertaining its hard to get away from the fact that its a bunch of button mashing and wand waving, and looks to be in 800x600 or lower resolution with a terrible poly count. You could easily run this game on your mother's office machine, assuming it had even a basic graphics card.

If you buy console games when they are on sale you can make some great savings as well. Most of the games you list are a few years old, consoles games that old can be picked up pretty cheap. I imagine your $200 could have gotten you as many console games as you did pc games.

BostonB

Overheal wrote: »

...In terms of dollars and cents consoles may or may not have a lead (again you need to factor MMO subscriptions). Whether or not any of that is an indicator of PC Gaming success or failure is debatable.....

As a sweeping generalisation, the more money in it, the more developers, the more games/titles.

Blowfish

BostonB wrote: »

As a sweeping generalisation, the more money in it, the more developers, the more games/titles.

Well there are no concrete figures at all for the total 'value' of the PC market, yet there are far far more PC developers/titles than there are console ones. The reason for that being that the cost of entry for PC game development is literally just the cost of a PC, where as it's a heck of a lot more difficult to get into if you want to develop for consoles.

BostonB

Theres a lot more crud on the PC that doesn't add any value if you ask me. Also on the consoles, just less.

oceanclub

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If you buy console games when they are on sale you can make some great savings as well. Most of the games you list are a few years old, consoles games that old can be picked up pretty cheap. I imagine your $200 could have gotten you as many console games as you did pc games.

I've been on the lookout for cheap XBox 360 games lately, and honestly, the savings aren't comparable. You simply couldn't get 33 console games for €250 - in my case, 3 of those games were pre-release full price games as well (Batman:AA, Arma II and Dragon Ages:Origins). Most such releases on XBox 360 are €50 even online (new console game prices really do my head in!)

P.

oceanclub

BostonB wrote: »

Theres a lot more crud on the PC that doesn't add any value if you ask me. Also on the consoles, just less.

The PC is the second-best actually:

http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/metacritics-annual-platform-rankings-ps3-comes-out-on-top/

Proving that the PS3 is the console of choice for the discerning gamer, Metacritic’s first annual Game Platform Power Rankings have demonstrated that the best games are found on Sony’s console. A total of 5 of the top 10 rated games of the year appeared on the PS3, including the game that took the number 1 spot, Uncharted 2.

Microsoft’s Xbox 360 game in third, following PC gaming – which obviously isn’t as dead as people think it is. The Xbox actually had the highest number of good releases in 2009 – with 88 games garnering a Metascore of 75 or higher – but I’ve always been an advocate of quality over quantity.

Which brings us to the unfortunate Wii. The white waggle box has a reputation for being the home to mindless shovelware – and Metacrtic’s median ratings aren’t going to change that preconception. Of the 362 releases – almost one rubbish game a day – only 28% of them are any good, with only 1 game the whole year being considered “great.”

I concur with the Wii being the idiot stepchild of gaming.

P.

AlmightyCushion

oceanclub wrote: »

I've been on the lookout for cheap XBox 360 games lately, and honestly, the savings aren't comparable. You simply couldn't get 33 console games for €250 - in my case, 3 of those games were pre-release full price games as well (Batman:AA, Arma II and Dragon Ages:Origins). Most such releases on XBox 360 are €50 even online (new console game prices really do my head in!)

P.

I'm just talking about overheals collection. He didn't get as many as 30 and only 2 (torchlight and left for dead 2) were released in the past year that I can see and even then they weren't full priced releases. Brand new releases are cheaper on the pc definitely but on older games you can get some serious bargains on console games especially with the re-sale market which isn't as big on the pc.

Overheal

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I'm just talking about overheals collection. He didn't get as many as 30 and only 2 (torchlight and left for dead 2) were released in the past year that I can see and even then they weren't full priced releases. Brand new releases are cheaper on the pc definitely but on older games you can get some serious bargains on console games especially with the re-sale market which isn't as big on the pc.

Riddick is 2 games Persia is 3 Doom is 5 Civ 4 is 4 did I mention both Max Paynes?

So yeah you hit 30 if you want to be anal about it.

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

Riddick is 2 games Persia is 3 Doom is 5 Civ 4 is 4 did I mention both Max Paynes?

So yeah you hit 30 if you want to be anal about it.

I assumed they were all bought in packs e.g. a pop pack that contained all the games so I only counted them as one. Even still those games are still really old. Hell Max Payne 2 was released in the 2002 or something like that. You can pick up games that old for consoles for next to nothing as well.

Overheal

Oh well. none of my wii games are exactly new releases either. Still though, where else can you find Bioshock for $3?

But then, with limited exception, youre really limited in what older software you can actually play on your console. While the selection has gotten vastly better thanks to digital distribution (surprise surprise) its still just glorified emulation. And you cant play your old mario 64 cartridge on your wii - you need to buy it again on the wii shop. Im not even sure if you can play a PS1 game either. Hell, I can still play lemmings and Megaman 2 on this thing and I successfully got PS1 titles to work on the laptop using an xbox 360 controller and some google-diving. The PC offers infinitely more versatility both for light and heavy gaming. As such I dont think youll ever see PC gaming die.

Most especially with PC centric genres like RTS and more classically FPS: while it works on console, there will never be a non-demand for it on Mouse and Keyboard. And as PC gaming is in a constant state of upgrade, I dont see how it can die. Meanwhile 2 out of 3 of the console manufacturers are producing units at a loss, are they not?

AlmightyCushion

Overheal wrote: »

Oh well. none of my wii games are exactly new releases either. Still though, where else can you find Bioshock for $3?

But then, with limited exception, youre really limited in what older software you can actually play on your console. While the selection has gotten vastly better thanks to digital distribution (surprise surprise) its still just glorified emulation. And you cant play your old mario 64 cartridge on your wii - you need to buy it again on the wii shop. Im not even sure if you can play a PS1 game either. The PC offers infinitely more versatility both for light and heavy gaming. As such I dont think youll ever see PC gaming die. Most especially with PC centric genres like RTS and more classically FPS: while it works on console, there will never be a non-demand for it on Mouse and Keyboard. And as PC gaming is in a constant state of upgrade, I dont see how it can die. Meanwhile 2 out of 3 of the console manufacturers are producing units at a loss, are they not?

I sure as hell hope pc gaming doesn't die as I much prefer it to console gaming. Stupid PS3 is doing nothing but gathering dust. FPS and RTS games will always be better using a keyboard and mouse so until the consoles allow that in game the pc will have a massive advantage over the consoles. Even then on the pc you can get keyboards and mice that let you macro controls to certain keys will will be impossible to do on consoles unless they manage to work with the likes of logitech etc to make it possible.

As for consoles being sold at a loss, the 360 and PS3 were sold at a loss at launch and the wii has always made a profit as far as I know. Last time I checked the 360 is making a profit on consoles and the PS3 is/was close. Even still consoles makes their money from selling games and peripherals. Plus I'd say sony are happy to chalk some of the loss down to making blu-ray the HD standard of choice. They will make a lot of money out of bluray and the PS3 helped kill off HD-DVD.

BostonB

oceanclub wrote: »

The PC is the second-best actually:

http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/metacritics-annual-platform-rankings-ps3-comes-out-on-top/


P.

I though it was all consoles vs PC not more specific. But interesting.

Does the quality of titles reflect in the sales figures of either consoles or the games though?

cashville

I have a PC & Xbox 360. The 360 doesn't get used apart from watching the odd DVD. Have had all the major consoles that have come out but PC gaming has always been my favourite.

It is a major pain in the arse upgrading, but definitely worth it. The quality of the games and the communities that spring up really make it what it is. Plus, there does always seem to be more thought and skill attached to PC games in my opinion, consoles tend to be button bashers and hand things to you on a plate. My prime example of this was Assassin's Creed, probably the worst money I've ever spent on a game.

I recently built a new rig so I could play Armed Assault 2. I got help from the Build/Upgrade forum here, and as far as modding the game or running into problems I have the guys on the Tactical Shooter forum who are brilliant and always help anyone with a problem. I played with some sound people in my Rainbow 6 Vegas days on the 360, but it's just not the same as with a PC game.

I don't think PC gaming will win out, but I don't really care as long as games like Arma 2 are produced and there is a brilliant community supporting it.

oceanclub

BostonB wrote: »

I though it was all consoles vs PC not more specific. But interesting.

Does the quality of titles reflect in the sales figures of either consoles or the games though?

Unfortunately, quality is definitely no indicator of how well a game will sell - certainly Wii games outsell everything else right now. On play.com, for example, 7 out of the top 10 sellers are Wii games. Interestly, on the pre-order chart, none are.

P.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

oceanclub wrote: »

The PC is the second-best actually:

http://www.lazygamer.co.za/xbox-360/metacritics-annual-platform-rankings-ps3-comes-out-on-top/




I concur with the Wii being the idiot stepchild of gaming.

P.

Well, from that link, the PC won overall with a score of 72.5, as oppose to the PS3 score of 72...

BostonB

Well that would depend on if the debate is about quality or about sales.

Because some games because they are a niche genre, are never going sell in big numbers. Regardless of Platform.