Ennis "head shop" legality under review

drunken_munky52

Should a shop that circumvents classified drug laws be allowed to remain in operation or should the nanny state gets its way and say "down with this kind of thing, careful now".

Personally, I think they should let it be... outlawing it completely will drive the drug world back underground. Tax it, control it I say, its not as if Ennis could turn out like Amsterdam.

Politicians jump to criticizing it, as it scores points with certain voters, and that's the only reason they jump on it. Older generations are quick to denounce it also. Are they out of tune with the current generation? I would say citizens in the 20 - 40 year old category wouldn't mind this shop remaining, correct me if I am wrong.

REPSOC1916

You're completely right in my opinion. Its just a campaign to create a moral panic by the current FF oligarchy to divert voters attention from other issues.

The last thing we need is for more drug substances to be proscribed. However I would never suggest that drugs such as heroin and cocaine be legalised. There is ample data to suggest that these drugs even in pure form are dangerous. However MDMA - if the safety standards in manufacturing is high and in an acceptable enough dose - is perfectly safe. The drugs most head shops sell such as Salvia Divinorum are non addictive. If a market is legal yet regulated tightly than you automatically remove the criminal element.

P.S. I have tried certain substances one can purchase in a head shop. They are non addictive and enjoyable. The only concern I'd have is over the safety and efficacy standards applied in manufacturing which is why there should be legislation regulating head shops and the manufacture of drugs they sell.

Akrasia

how does it circumvent drugs laws?

All the products on sale are legal.

Unfortunately the only product that people actually want to buy is illegal, so law abiding people are forced to accept inferior substitutes that are potentially much more damaging to your health than Marajuana which is one of the most heavily studied medical/pharmacutical substances in the world and has been found to be largely safe for occasional use (like drink and soy sauce)

I have tried some of the 'legal highs' in the past, (don't smoke anymore cause I'm a father now and all responsible and sh1t) mainly spice gold and 'skunk' which are blends of legal herbs with names straight out of McBeth's script. Undoubtedly they do have strong effects, if you want to get stoned, these things will definitely do it for you, but it's a different kind of effect, and I found there are some unpleasant side effects (the next day after spice gold I was extremely tired and barely able to function)

They are very harsh on your throat and you really have to wonder how many different chemical compounds are being created when these blends of exotic herbs and spices are combusted and what the health effects are likely to be.

They should just legalise marajuana but regulate it in terms of labeling and packaging. When you go into an off license you can see from the bottle what kind of alcohol you're buying, how strong it is and what way to consume it. It should be the same with weed/hash. If cannabis was legalised we could be assured of the quality and strength of the product and not have to worry about whether there has been foreign material added to the hash/weed to make it heavier.

BLITZ_Molloy

Historically prohibition has never worked for any drug. They should just legalise the lot of it and instead of money going to criminals they could spent it on addiction treatment. Even something like heroin isn't going to kill you that quickly (assuming clean needles and properly administered). Set up a clinic where people go to shoot up, regulate the amount they have and then encourage them to go on a program to get off it.

This is the way it's going to go eventually because trying to police an industry worth trillions is impossible.

Teadrinker

BLITZ_Molloy wrote: »

Historically prohibition has never worked for any drug. They should just legalise the lot of it and instead of money going to criminals they could spent it on addiction treatment. Even something like heroin isn't going to kill you that quickly (assuming clean needles and properly administered). Set up a clinic where people go to shoot up, regulate the amount they have and then encourage them to go on a program to get off it.

This is the way it's going to go eventually because trying to police an industry worth trillions is impossible.

I'll say this for you Blitz, you have some shocking ideas! Happy New Year!

BLITZ_Molloy

I was talking to one of my friends who's a chemist this evening and he had some rather well reasoned arguments for saying my opinions are completely unworkable which makes me think I probably need to refine my theorys a little bit.

Happy new year.

teddy_303

Teadrinker wrote: »

I'll say this for you Blitz, you have some shocking ideas! Happy New Year!

Tea by name.......

heathercat

That cannabis is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol has been the subject of many publications. However, most governments do not react to this. Whereas alcohol triggers aggressive behavior, cannabis induces a relaxed and sedate state.

The medicinal effect of cannabis is well proven and in some countries (Canada, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Israel, Italy, Finnland, Portugal) medication based on cannabinoids are in use.

It's obvious that the alcohol and tobacco lobby is much more powerful than the cannabis lobby. In my opinion that's what it boils down to. If the governments had any brains, they'd legalize cannabis, put a tax on it just like on the much more harmful drugs of alcohol and tobacco, and be done with it. *says and lights a fag in frustration*

My 2 Eurocents worth....

drunken_munky52

heathercat wrote: »

It's obvious that the alcohol and tobacco lobby is much more powerful than the cannabis lobby. In my opinion that's what it boils down to. If the governments had any brains, they'd legalize cannabis, put a tax on it just like on the much more harmful drugs of alcohol and tobacco, and be done with it. *says and lights a fag in frustration*

Works in Amsterdam, that's for sure. What send me spinning is that not one politician has the brass to stand up for the idea of legalization tough. Even the younger politicians, would should be more down with it and not like grumpy old men when it comes to topics like this. "The nanny state" will be the end of us.

Stuxnet

the fella behind the headshop is cleaning up, any time i go in to get something, there are always five or six people buying blow, 40 euros a gram, and i say he easily sells 100 bags a day

millionaire in a year he will be

onedoubleo

I was talking to the nice American guy in Brightside(Head Shop in Limerick) and they say they have been contacted in January for the last 5 years about the legality of their products and from some "higher ups" saying they would look into shutting the shop down.

I am glad the shop is here, I have always said that legalisation would work and if done properly could be a real boost to the tourism industry and I now go into the head shop in Ennis and Limerick to buy smoke as I see it as a mimic for a legalisation movement. I also loving rolling up their smoke and walking around town smoking hoping to get some attention and just say no its legal and I am legally out of my mind

djk1000

BLITZ_Molloy wrote: »

Historically prohibition has never worked for any drug. They should just legalise the lot of it and instead of money going to criminals they could spent it on addiction treatment. Even something like heroin isn't going to kill you that quickly (assuming clean needles and properly administered). Set up a clinic where people go to shoot up, regulate the amount they have and then encourage them to go on a program to get off it.

This is the way it's going to go eventually because trying to police an industry worth trillions is impossible.

Not to mention the ever growing number of innocent and not so innocent people that have been murdered because of competition in the illegal drugs trade, plus the garda resources that could be redeployed to other duties having a knock on reduction in other crimes.

exiot

A second headshop has opened in Chapel Lane opposite The Hub, very small but have a nice selection of products

BLITZ_Molloy

That the place pushing the protein shakes? Been on them 4 weeks and I see no difference whatsoever. They said I'd be 'ripped' by now.

CptSternn

Making the substances they sell there 'illegal' is nothing more than political rhetoric for the masses.

First, most of the substances sold there can be bought in other forms. When they made GHB illegal in America they soon found out like 99% of all floor cleaners contained GHB, which after the law passed where also illegal. They had to go back and rewrite the law since congress had no idea GHB was a common compound used for more than getting high - you think the eejits would have researched it before passing such broad legislation.

Same thing here. Make whatever it is illegal, and soon find out every business in town is in violation because no one bothered to find out what other uses there are for the chemical they are banning.

Second, after the GHB ban you found that it was only in America it was banned. You could order the stuff online and have it shipped to your home, no problem. To this day you still can, especially since its sold as circuit board cleaner on websites around the world (everywhere but America).

Third, does anyone remember the happy pills? Legal pills that were the same as ecstasy? Well, they were legal here until a couple years ago, they were banned. Did that stop the legal alternatives? No. Because they didn't want to have a fiasco like the US GHB fiasco they banned them by name. The company merely changed the name and packaging and guess what? You can buy em here in Ireland again.

Anyone who thinks you can just ban something and it goes away is diluting themselves. Bans of these sorts of things are as effective as the current blasphemy laws. They serve no real purpose other than to give politicians something to crow about, allowing them to say they did 'something' to stop something people were complaining about.

At the end of the day its simple economics - supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for things like this, someone will find a legal way to supply it to them. Any sort of legislation trying to stop these things is merely window dressing for lazy politicians.

firesidechat

A leading Clare psychiatrist has issued a stark warning about the products sold in head shops in the county.
Dr Moosajee Bhamjee has said that lives will be lost if such shops are not regulated immediately.
There has been much controversy surrounding these shops in recent weeks.
Ennis Town Council have even called on the Government to review products sold in them, and to shut the shops until such time that their investigations are complete.
Dr. Bhamjee has warned that a lack of action could cause deaths as a result of health problems in young people, as well as an increase in murders and suicides...........................................................

pappyodaniel

firesidechat wrote: »

A leading Clare psychiatrist has issued a stark warning about the products sold in head shops in the county.
Dr Moosajee Bhamjee has said that lives will be lost if such shops are not regulated immediately.
There has been much controversy surrounding these shops in recent weeks.
Ennis Town Council have even called on the Government to review products sold in them, and to shut the shops until such time that their investigations are complete.
Dr. Bhamjee has warned that a lack of action could cause deaths as a result of health problems in young people, as well as an increase in murders and suicides...........................................................

Bhamjee is the biggest drug dealer in Ennis with the drugs he prescribes to people suffering from mental disorders. I have first-hand contact with some of his patients, who were once spritely,fun people and who are now walking around town like extras from Dawn of the Dead. These shops have been around for years and the only case the opposition bring up is the guy who ate some of the magic mushrooms (may I say after a day&night binge drinking) and ended up taking a swan dive from a bacony, plunging to his death.

The only negative effect of these legal highs I can admit from personal use would be the come down, it's next to impossible to sleep,which in turn makes you very groggy the next day (akin to a hangover). I haven't tried any of these products in over a year and I probably never will again, I didn't find them addictive, I didn't lose my job, I didn't end up on the street, I didn't get violent, I didn't get suicidal and I didn't die.

Here's an interesting link. http://www.u.tv/News/Derry-gun-victim-sold-legal-highs/e3ee74d7-5474-488f-853b-15c2624dd2ff

dr.fuzzenstein

As Chris Rock says "They don't want you to take your drugs, they want you to take their drugs".
You're supposed to get your fix from your doctor and pharmacy, by far the biggest drug pushers on the planet.
They make the Bolivian drug cartels look like a 2 Euro shop.
We get this idea that drugs are regulated in the way they are because the government and pharma industry care about us.
If you really think that I have a great business deal for you, did you know that the railway station is coming up for sale? I make you good price!
But to me Chris Rock says it all:

firesidechat

Correct. We now live in a culture where medical professionals can sometimes be too quick to write a prescription , There is no getting away from that claim, It is true.
But...Prescribed drugs have gone through rigerous research and testing before been made available to the general public. This is a very expensive process and the result is we now see the big pharma manufactures rewarding the medical profession for using their products. There is regulation as to who can receive these drugs even though the system does have it's flaws...
Headshops are not regulated...
Nobody has any control as to what ingredients are used in manufacturing these concoctions. Do you think someone in china cares about your health or the damage they may be causing to one's health..?
They don't give a fiddlers.
It never ceases to amaze me the people who would not drink out of a dirty cup or use a dirty dinner fork, Yet , they snort, smoke or digest substances they know nothing about or what is in it.
If headshops are to be allowed operate in this country the very least we must expect from our government is that they be regulated.
Should they be allowed to exist ? That is a debate for another day...

Clareman

Here's my cents, not that they're worth that much

Whether or not Head Shops and their products are healthy, lead to other things, cause whatever ill effects, it doesn't matter, they are legal at the moment and as such they are fine to go on selling their wares.

Comparing them to pubs isn't a bad comparison, both sell mind/state/perception alternating drugs (alcohol is a drug), both are legal, both can lead people to do things that they wouldn't do in a sober state of mind and also lead to nasty side effects. I also take it that some people can get addicted to both substances, other people can take them or leave them. Personally, I don't take Head Shop products, not that I have an aversion or vendetta against them, they just aren't my thing, the same as some people don't drink.

Like it or lump it, we live in a democracy where there are different things for different people, I don't have to like what other people like, they don't have to like what I like, but when it's all legal, then each to their own.

Clareman

Another TD (this time a GP) has something to say

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mcdaid-banning-headshops-a-huge-mistake-444849.html

A Fianna Fail TD has said the banning of headshops "is not the way forward".

Deputy Jim McDaid said he believes that the country is "on the verge of making a huge mistake" if such shops are banned.

Mr McDaid, who is also a GP, said: "It isn't the way to tackle drug problems and doing so won't solve anything.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mcdaid-banning-headshops-a-huge-mistake-444849.html#ixzz0ea116dtM

firesidechat

Do remember, this is the very same TD that was caught driving down
the naas dual carraigeway ,going the wrong direction while drunk off his head.

Clareman

If he had a better Spin Doctor it was everyone else that was going the wrong way and he was just back from America saving orphans

dr.fuzzenstein

Clareman wrote: »

If he had a better Spin Doctor it was everyone else that was going the wrong way and he was just back from America saving orphans

Good point and judging by the amount of money FF spends on Spin Doctors one wonders how on earth some government ministers seem to be unable to grasp the whole glass house/stones concept.
Don't mind head shops, each to their own, but one wonders if there is a cure for runaway anus.
More on the subject:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/government-bill-for-spin-doctors-will-reach-836420m-1973160.html

katkin

Like Fireside chat said, these products haven't been subject to testing and no one knows what side-effects they could have, in the short or long term, particularly for young people. Do you have to be over 18 to buy their products? Never been in there. How come so many are opening up now? Has some big chain come into the country or something?

firesidechat

It's only a matter of time before we see a headline like this on the champion if the govt do not act.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2826087/Party-drug-meow-kills-woman-in-Dunfermline.html

Clareman

firesidechat wrote: »

It's only a matter of time before we see a headline like this on the champion if the govt do not act.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2826087/Party-drug-meow-kills-woman-in-Dunfermline.html

Nah, the Champion would have a typo and a picture of some old lad playing a traditional instrument or something to do with farming

daisybelle2008

firesidechat wrote: »

It's only a matter of time before we see a headline like this on the champion if the govt do not act.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/2826087/Party-drug-meow-kills-woman-in-Dunfermline.html

People are dying of alcohol and prescription drug problems everyday and the govt don't act. It is just scaremongering to win political brownie points over.

firesidechat

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

People are dying of alcohol and prescription drug problems everyday and the govt don't act. It is just scaremongering to win political brownie points over.

It's the complete opposite.
Politicans were quiet happy to keep their head buried in the sand and hope this issue would go away.
The fact that advocates are bringing this situation to the publics attention is the only reason they are getting involved. They are elected to legislate and it's about time they took their trust and moral responsability serious .

hairless

Is the little buddah place on chapel lane one of the "head shops" ???

loctite

firesidechat wrote: »

A leading Clare psychiatrist has issued a stark warning about the products sold in head shops in the county.
Dr Moosajee Bhamjee has said that lives will be lost if such shops are not regulated immediately.
There has been much controversy surrounding these shops in recent weeks.
Ennis Town Council have even called on the Government to review products sold in them, and to shut the shops until such time that their investigations are complete.
Dr. Bhamjee has warned that a lack of action could cause deaths as a result of health problems in young people, as well as an increase in murders and suicides...........................................................

I would like to know what his stance is on alcohol consumption in Clare.... increase in assaults, murders, suicides...... and death.......

I'm sick of this demonising of drugs and head shops. Its swings and round abouts. No matter what the substance Alcohol or Weed etc, there will always be people that will become dependent on it. There are countless numbers of assaults, murders, deaths, abuse and lives destroyed by alcohol, but yet I don't see anyone looking to ban Alcohol and close down pubs?

There will always always always be a demand for drugs, and I think it is high time (no pun intended) society accepted this as fact. The major problem I have with "illegal" drugs is that it finances or its profits go to criminals. Head shops are now the opportunity to take the market off the criminals and legalise it, create tax revenues and not to criminalise those that use them.........