Ennis "head shop" legality under review

firesidechat

loctite wrote: »

I would like to know what his stance is on alcohol consumption in Clare.... increase in assaults, murders, suicides...... and death.......

I'm sick of this demonising of drugs and head shops. Its swings and round abouts. No matter what the substance Alcohol or Weed etc, there will always be people that will become dependent on it. There are countless numbers of assaults, murders, deaths, abuse and lives destroyed by alcohol, but yet I don't see anyone looking to ban Alcohol and close down pubs?

There will always always always be a demand for drugs, and I think it is high time (no pun intended) society accepted this as fact. The major problem I have with "illegal" drugs is that it finances or its profits go to criminals. Head shops are now the opportunity to take the market off the criminals and legalise it, create tax revenues and not to criminalise those that use them.........

What part of " Sale of alcohol is regulated unlike the sale of drugs"
do you not understand ?

loctite

firesidechat wrote: »

What part of " Sale of alcohol is regulated unlike the sale of drugs"
do you not understand ?

Maybe I did not articulate myself correctly........ Alcohol is regulated yet still have all the above problems that Dr. X predicts from the wares of head shops

So what makes him think that regulating head shops will prevent these deaths? I'm under no illusion that it won't. I want to see them regulated so that the trade is taken out of the scum that are destroying Irish society with guns and violence........

firesidechat

True...
Alcohol is a drug and can be a very destructive one at that.
If taken in moderation it can be very relaxing. It is a drug and there is no getting away from the facts.
Society is very accepting of this drug .It supports numerous industries and provides hundreds of thousands of jobs. Due to the economic benefit based around the alcohol industry it will always be accepted.
Thus the argument as to why one drug is accepted over another.
To say that drugs should be banned is actually very hipocritical coming from a culture that glamorises alcohol use. It is so easy to blame drugs when there has been a disturbance in town.Yet no one comments on the amount of vodka and red bull the individuals involved may have consumed.
Alcohol is marketed as an accepted drug without actually mentioning the fact that it is indeed a drug.
Now , the difference between what the local vintner is serving and the headshop is serving is miles apart. Alcohol is regulated from the ingredients involved in production all the way through to the consumers pallet.
Head shops have no regulations to adhere by. No one knows what ingredients are put into their products or what the effect on one's health will be.When the headshop industry abides by strict regulations that should have been introduced by govt, make it's products public knowledge and stop selling to minors ,then and only then can they join the argument as to why one drug is accepted over another. Until they clean up their act they will not be welcomed in any community and nor should they be.

loctite

firesidechat wrote: »

True...
Due to the economic benefit based around the alcohol industry it will always be accepted.

Maybe, but our islands relationship with alcohol did not begin with economic motivations, nor does remain acceptable because of its economic value... It is part of our culture. We will always be a race of people accepting of alcohol, regardless of its economic value.

I would agree with your point of view over regulation. But I
would have no problems with a head shop setting up in my town. They are no better or no worse than the publicans in my opinion.

FLievre

I myself use this shop and most products sold in it (apart for the powder for some reasons I can put stuff in my nose). Heap shops are great for quite a few reasons:

1. Find legal ways to get a bit high
2. Learn about drugs

Only problem is the way some people will use these products.
I lived in Amsterdam and Vancouver, biggest heap shops in the world. These shops should also be used to teach people how to use these products. I have seen an example very recently where someone I know bought some pills from there and wasn't feeling too good after taking them. I asked him what he has taken and he told me that he got the smilers. Which would be fine if the gy didn't have a hearth condition. If the staff could ask if the customers have any medical conditions and advise them on what to take and not I think that would help a lot.
As for the "Concerned" parents... I will just have a quick word:
Have you talk to your kids about drugs? Don't answer... I already know the answer...
These shops are actually a great oportunity to talk and educate about drugs. I have kids myself and one who will be 17 this year. I rather would him to ask me about them and go to that shop with me and well maybe even try some with him rather than him going to a street drug dealer (or pusher).
And also for the one who complain about these shops... If I ever see you dead drunk in a pub you will have some explaining to do... Remember Alcohol is a drug and freely available in Dunnes Stores!!

Denerick

heathercat wrote: »

That cannabis is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol has been the subject of many publications. However, most governments do not react to this. Whereas alcohol triggers aggressive behavior, cannabis induces a relaxed and sedate state.

The medicinal effect of cannabis is well proven and in some countries (Canada, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Israel, Italy, Finnland, Portugal) medication based on cannabinoids are in use.

It's obvious that the alcohol and tobacco lobby is much more powerful than the cannabis lobby. In my opinion that's what it boils down to. If the governments had any brains, they'd legalize cannabis, put a tax on it just like on the much more harmful drugs of alcohol and tobacco, and be done with it. *says and lights a fag in frustration*

My 2 Eurocents worth....

There is ample evidence linking pyschotic illnesses with cannibis, particularly the heavier 'skunk' variety. Not to mention paranoia, anxiety, panic attacks etc. etc. It depends on the person, but this argument that cannibis is 'perfectly safe' is demonstrably false.

FLievre

Denerick wrote: »

There is ample evidence linking pyschotic illnesses with cannibis, particularly the heavier 'skunk' variety. Not to mention paranoia, anxiety, panic attacks etc. etc. It depends on the person, but this argument that cannibis is 'perfectly safe' is demonstrably false.

That is the very point of the heap shops, the weeds sold in there are not grown inside and are not as dangerous as skunk. Effectively it is true that even if not skunk, mixing these weeds with other stuff can be harmful. This is why people needs to be adult about these and needs to get educated on drugs.

Balagan

FLievre wrote: »

I myself use this shop and most products sold in it (apart for the powder for some reasons I can put stuff in my nose). Heap shops are great for quite a few reasons:

1. Find legal ways to get a bit high
2. Learn about drugs

Only problem is the way some people will use these products.
I lived in Amsterdam and Vancouver, biggest heap shops in the world. These shops should also be used to teach people how to use these products. I have seen an example very recently where someone I know bought some pills from there and wasn't feeling too good after taking them. I asked him what he has taken and he told me that he got the smilers. Which would be fine if the gy didn't have a hearth condition. If the staff could ask if the customers have any medical conditions and advise them on what to take and not I think that would help a lot.
As for the "Concerned" parents... I will just have a quick word:
Have you talk to your kids about drugs? Don't answer... I already know the answer...
These shops are actually a great oportunity to talk and educate about drugs. I have kids myself and one who will be 17 this year. I rather would him to ask me about them and go to that shop with me and well maybe even try some with him rather than him going to a street drug dealer (or pusher).
And also for the one who complain about these shops... If I ever see you dead drunk in a pub you will have some explaining to do... Remember Alcohol is a drug and freely available in Dunnes Stores!!

Are you having a laugh?

Balagan

FLievre wrote: »

That is the very point of the heap shops, the weeds sold in there are not grown inside and are not as dangerous as skunk. Effectively it is true that even if not skunk, mixing these weeds with other stuff can be harmful. This is why people needs to be adult about these and needs to get educated on drugs.

I'd love to hear what your definition of the word 'adult' is.

Denerick

FLievre wrote: »

That is the very point of the heap shops, the weeds sold in there are not grown inside and are not as dangerous as skunk. Effectively it is true that even if not skunk, mixing these weeds with other stuff can be harmful. This is why people needs to be adult about these and needs to get educated on drugs.

How do you know they are not as dangerous as skunk? Its this blasé attitude which is the problem. The long term damage from engineered brands of cannibis are only beginning to come to light now, 20 odd years down the line. drug studies need to understand both the short and long term effects. Brands like pulse or salvia are a cocktail of God knows what, with little or no scientific research behind them. God knows what you're actually putting into your body.

Same goes for mephedrone (blow)

FLievre

Balagan wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

No I'm not... That is how it works in other countries... If you went out on Sundays instead of sinking pints down your local, you would know that drugs are part of the culture of many countries going back to the Greek mythology, ever heard of the oracles?

FLievre

Denerick wrote: »

How do you know they are not as dangerous as skunk? Its this blasé attitude which is the problem. The long term damage from engineered brands of cannibis are only beginning to come to light now, 20 odd years down the line. drug studies need to understand both the short and long term effects. Brands like pulse or salvia are a cocktail of God knows what, with little or no scientific research behind them. God knows what you're actually putting into your body.

Same goes for mephedrone (blow)

Same as booze... Fancy cutting that out?? Did you ever ask yourself what was in the Dutch gold or any other cheap liquids that kids can get for nearly nothing?

FLievre

Balagan wrote: »

I'd love to hear what your definition of the word 'adult' is.

adult: Opposite of you.
Be sure of one thing: you cannot stop drugs.
If not in a shop they are in the street...
What do you prefer?
Adult: Someone in age and disposition to take decisions based on knowledge...

Denerick

FLievre wrote: »

Same as booze... Fancy cutting that out?? Did you ever ask yourself what was in the Dutch gold or any other cheap liquids that kids can get for nearly nothing?

Cop on. There's hundreds of years of scientific research which studies the long term effects of alcohol consumption. These engineered weed brands are simply not on the same level.

FLievre

Denerick wrote: »

Cop on. There's hundreds of years of scientific research which studies the long term effects of alcohol consumption. These engineered weed brands are simply not on the same level.

Hundred of years of scientific research?
Where was Stout invented and why? If you can answer that right I might take you seriously... If not... Hit the books...

Denerick

FLievre wrote: »

Hundred of years of scientific research?
Where was Stout invented and why? If you can answer that right I might take you seriously... If not... Hit the books...

You are profoundly missing the point.

FLievre

For many centuries people have tried to get high one way or another. In europe it started with alcohol. In Orient and Africa it was with ash (Kif in local language) because of their religion. One way or another people will get high. The only thing we can do about it is to do it the right way.
You can say what ever you want but it is safer to smoke a joint rather than take Xanax in case of insomnia still doctors in this country give xanax and valium like smarties.

golfball37

Nirvana headshop was toriched overnight in Dublin. Is this the start of the backlash from the dealers?

If head shops keep money away from teh people ordering all the murders in Limerick and Dublin then they are doing something right.

FLievre

golfball37 wrote: »

Nirvana headshop was toriched overnight in Dublin. Is this the start of the backlash from the dealers?

If head shops keep money away from teh people ordering all the murders in Limerick and Dublin then they are doing something right.

Here is something I totally agree with, maybe with these shops around the cops could get on with some real business, then again...

Denerick

FLievre wrote: »

For many centuries people have tried to get high one way or another. In europe it started with alcohol. In Orient and Africa it was with ash (Kif in local language) because of their religion. One way or another people will get high. The only thing we can do about it is to do it the right way.
You can say what ever you want but it is safer to smoke a joint rather than take Xanax in case of insomnia still doctors in this country give xanax and valium like smarties.

Its people like you I worry for. Salvia and the other engineered brands are a cocktails of cannaboid synthetics and are not simple weed or hash. We know practically nothing about them. Despite your base sophistry, you cannot deny that human beings have a profound understanding of the damages of long term alcohol intake has on our bodies and mind; we know very little about what are, in effect, a research chemical. You would have to be an absolute philistine to take this stuff without knowing what the hell is in them. Your boring comment completely misses that point.

Balagan

The one I feel sorry for is his 17 year old son.

FLievre

Are you two in a couple or something?? Have you seen what is in the cheap alcohol? Man, you're melted... Tell me do you two guys watch "Ear to the ground"?
At the age of free informations anyone has access to the same info as you do... Let them chose for themselves... Who are you to say "ooohhhh it is bad for you, don't do that!", let people decide for themselves...
And lagan, another comment on my son and I flame you...
I haven't commented on your family, don't get me started...

Balagan

FLievre wrote: »

Are you two in a couple or something?? Have you seen what is in the cheap alcohol? Man, you're melted... Tell me do you two guys watch "Ear to the ground"?
At the age of free informations anyone has access to the same info as you do... Let them chose for themselves... Who are you to say "ooohhhh it is bad for you, don't do that!", let people decide for themselves...
And lagan, another comment on my son and I flame you...
I haven't commented on your family, don't get me started...

You brought your son into this discussion and how you would introduce him to head shops. If you don't want people to comment on your parenting plans, then don't mention them.

And don't threaten people on this site.

FLievre

Yes I have rights to mention my son... YOU DO NOT...

loctite

Denerick wrote: »

Its people like you I worry for. Salvia and the other engineered brands are a cocktails of cannaboid synthetics and are not simple weed or hash.

Well that being the case, maybe it would be more appropriate to be selling non synthetic cannaboids then, wouldn't it??

and Denerick, as far as a Father wishing to be there for his son, to offer him advice on drugs, should his son ever wish to experiment, I think it is admirable and incredibly inspiring that their relationship is such that they can have such a level of honesty between them, especially on such a socially taboo subject.

In fact, I believe that if other parents attempted to do the same with the sacrosanct alcohol, we wouldn't have half as many public disorder problems as we do in this country.

dr.fuzzenstein

loctite wrote: »

Well that being the case, maybe it would be more appropriate to be selling non synthetic cannaboids then, wouldn't it??

and Denerick, as far as a Father wishing to be there for his son, to offer him advice on drugs, should his son ever wish to experiment, I think it is admirable and incredibly inspiring that their relationship is such that they can have such a level of honesty between them, especially on such a socially taboo subject.

In fact, I believe that if other parents attempted to do the same with the sacrosanct alcohol, we wouldn't have half as many public disorder problems as we do in this country.

A+!
The Irish have this utterly repressive attitude to everything.
The theory is "if we never mention sex, drugs and rock'n'roll to our little Sean or Siobhan, they will never find out and therefore remain our innocent little angels forever"
So, despite that fact that alcohol, drugs, prostitution and gambling don't exist in our oh so holy little land, we seem to have huge problems with all of the above.
In other countries these things exist, but because kids are being told about them they think it's no big deal.
This openness and climate of trust leads to fewer problems in the long run.
But, Oh No!
We couldn't be havin' this, now jaysus no, begorrah, to be sure, to be sure!
It's much easier to live in the 19th century rather than face up to the fact that the world out there has changed since the invention of the steam liner and the telegraph and simply tell your kids about what's out there.

Doug Cartel

Denerick wrote: »

Its people like you I worry for. Salvia and the other engineered brands are a cocktails of cannaboid synthetics and are not simple weed or hash.

Salvia isn't a synthetic cannabinoid.

firesidechat

The sunday times

UP to €500,000 was rescued from a safe in the basesment of a head shop on Dublin’s Capel Street that was destroyed in a fire on Friday morning.

Firefighters found the money while tackling the blaze. The gardai are investigating the possibility that it was started deliberately by parents whose teenage children had consumed legal highs purchased from the store.

Detectives are offering security advice to Jim Bellamy, the owner of the Nirvana head shop. Gardai believe petrol may have been used as an accelerant in the blaze, which spread to two adjoining shops.

Gardai in other parts of Dublin have stepped up patrols in shopping districts with head shops amid concerns that they will be targeted. There are concerns that the shops, their owners and staff may become the focus of a campaign by dissident republicans or anti-drugs activists in the coming months.

The Real IRA shot the owner of a head shop in Derry last month, claiming responsibility for the attack by using a cover name. The victim was seriously injured. The paramilitary group has since warned the owners of other head shops in Northern Ireland that they must close down.

The terrorist group, which murdered Gerard Staunton, a 42-year-old suspected drugs dealer in Cork last month, is expected to issue a similar threat to owners of head shops south of the border. In the absence of political action curtailing the legal sale of drugs, gardai fear that republican dissidents will use the controversy surrounding head shops to win support.

There are also fears that the city’s drug trafficking gangs may attack the shops, which sell drugs paraphernalia and stimulants that create feelings of euphoria similar to ecstasy and cocaine. The sale of illegal drugs including heroin has collapsed in parts of Dublin’s north inner city following the opening of head shops.

“All the information available to us indicates that various groups have an interest in attacking these shops,” said a senior detective. “Head shops are being targeted by republican extremists and drug dealers for very different reasons.

“They are also a source of numerous complaints from residents as they are an attraction for drug addicts and users.”

The force is adopting an ad hoc approach to head shops. Senior gardai in Dublin’s north central division have warned owners of head shops that they could face prosecution for endangerment if a customer falls ill after consuming a legal high. Other gardai have chosen to ignore the shops, however.

Denerick

FLievre wrote: »

Are you two in a couple or something?? Have you seen what is in the cheap alcohol? Man, you're melted... Tell me do you two guys watch "Ear to the ground"?
At the age of free informations anyone has access to the same info as you do... Let them chose for themselves... Who are you to say "ooohhhh it is bad for you, don't do that!", let people decide for themselves...
And lagan, another comment on my son and I flame you...
I haven't commented on your family, don't get me started...

The point is that we largely know what Dutch Gold does to you with long term intake, we don't know what these research chemicals do. Stop being so amusingly obtuse.

golfball37

Broken into for the 3rd time on Saturday night I believe.