Ennis "head shop" legality under review

Nevermind_

BOBBY wrote: »

was in the main shop this evening
was asking the owner what the story with the june ban,
doesnt make any difference he says, already has new stock bath salt products in ZIP was the one he showed me, that circumvents the ban so govt stupid blind sighted decisions backfired already

Sorry but the guy is a head shop owner not a barrister, how does HE KNOW that it circumvents the ban when the relevent legislation hasnt even been published yet??
it doesnt make sense.

Shapey Fiend

Insulting_Bitch wrote: »

Look at it like this, if that comment was left in reference to you or any associated with you (I am not associated with Dr Bhamjee) you would not be best pleased to have your name used in such a metaphor.

Ever hear of defamation? Ever hear of libel? It's a big money spinner.

Reagrding the mods, there is no allocated modedrator for the Clare forum only the Mid-West forum. That comment was something could easily slip through but if was looked at in the way in which I saw it couls easily cause another sh*tstorm for this site.

I think Dr. Bhamjee has more sense than worry about anonymous message board comments. Most stuff said on here is best taken with a pinch of salt. The fact that The Company That Shall Not Be Named managed to gag all negative commentary relating to it on this board is bad enough.

You tend to be outraged at something or other most of the time. That's sure to keep our collective moral compass aligned.

Stuxnet

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Sorry but the guy is a head shop owner not a barrister, how does HE KNOW that it circumvents the ban when the relevent legislation hasnt even been published yet??
it doesnt make sense.

well we know what types of stuff will be banned

Legal highs under the following six headings are to be banned:
Synthetic Cannabinoids, including well-known brands such as Spice.
BZP derivatives. BZP was banned here last March.
Mephedrone, better known as Snow or Blow and is the fourth most popular club drug, Methylone and related cathinones
GBL and 1,4BD, which is better known as liquid ecstasy
Kettamine
Tapentadol

so the new stuff must fall outside this bracket, he said within a month he'll have new stuff just as "good" to replace the most popular bath salts !

HEADSHOPS 1 GOVT 0

dr.fuzzenstein

So without Headshops we have to resort back to the good old reliable illegal and legal highs, like your friendly local drugpusher, i.e. a person of ill repute living in a certain estate, but more commonly your friendly legal drug pusher, you GP.
So many people are on tranquillisers and pain medication it's not funny anymore and as for safe, the pharmaceuticals don't give a sh*t about you, there's plenty of evidence of drugs being pushed onto patients that are known to have dangerous side effects such as your death.
Yes, the pharmaceuticals do conduct endless studies of their medicine, so they know exactly how dangerous they are. They still will get their dealers (GP's) to push their sh*t onto the unsuspecting public (the "pigeons" or "suckers" as they are known in the trade) in exchange for nice things like holidays, laptops and a range of other corporate gifts because officially they're not allowed to cut them in on the deal, but I'm sure there are ways around that to make sure that a GP will push Brand A over any other brands.
To think that going to the GP and be loaded with pills is in any way safer than going to the head shop is deluded beyond funny.
The days of the old country doctor telling people to cut back on smoking and drinking, get some bedrest and exercise more are long gone. Today the objective is to offload as many pills on as many people as possible.
The Swine Flu swindle is a great example.
Take the normal flu, give it a scary name and suddenly the governments of the world will be buying pills for billions of people.
Whoever makes the vaccination (and I know who, it rhymes with Bosch) made billions.
The actual death toll worldwide percentage wise is so ridiculously tiny, you might as well get vaccinated against getting struck by lightning seventeen times in the same week.
And why do head shops get burned down? Because drug pushers hate them with a vengeance, they take business away from decent, hard working scumbags.
The government should promote them, nothing in the history of the state has damaged drug dealers and criminals more than headshops.
But FF will just cave in to hysteria and populism.
Stupidity and ignorance rules.

Stuxnet

And joe duffy

Clareman

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/head-shop-protest-takes-place-in-ennis-449852.html

firesidechat

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So without Headshops we have to resort back to the good old reliable illegal and legal highs, like your friendly local drugpusher, i.e. a person of ill repute living in a certain estate, but more commonly your friendly legal drug pusher, you GP.
So many people are on tranquillisers and pain medication it's not funny anymore and as for safe, the pharmaceuticals don't give a sh*t about you, there's plenty of evidence of drugs being pushed onto patients that are known to have dangerous side effects such as your death.
Yes, the pharmaceuticals do conduct endless studies of their medicine, so they know exactly how dangerous they are. They still will get their dealers (GP's) to push their sh*t onto the unsuspecting public (the "pigeons" or "suckers" as they are known in the trade) in exchange for nice things like holidays, laptops and a range of other corporate gifts because officially they're not allowed to cut them in on the deal, but I'm sure there are ways around that to make sure that a GP will push Brand A over any other brands.
To think that going to the GP and be loaded with pills is in any way safer than going to the head shop is deluded beyond funny.
The days of the old country doctor telling people to cut back on smoking and drinking, get some bedrest and exercise more are long gone. Today the objective is to offload as many pills on as many people as possible.
The Swine Flu swindle is a great example.
Take the normal flu, give it a scary name and suddenly the governments of the world will be buying pills for billions of people.
Whoever makes the vaccination (and I know who, it rhymes with Bosch) made billions.
The actual death toll worldwide percentage wise is so ridiculously tiny, you might as well get vaccinated against getting struck by lightning seventeen times in the same week.
And why do head shops get burned down? Because drug pushers hate them with a vengeance, they take business away from decent, hard working scumbags.
The government should promote them, nothing in the history of the state has damaged drug dealers and criminals more than headshops.
But FF will just cave in to hysteria and populism.
Stupidity and ignorance rules.

So now the GP's are the drug dealers!!
Drug dealers and criminals are been damaged by headshops.!!
I'm laughing so hard my sides are hurting.:D:D * runs to GP for painkiller *

loctite

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So without Headshops we have to resort back to the good old reliable illegal and legal highs, like your friendly local drugpusher, i.e. a person of ill repute living in a certain estate, but more commonly your friendly legal drug pusher, you GP.
So many people are on tranquillisers and pain medication it's not funny anymore and as for safe, the pharmaceuticals don't give a sh*t about you, there's plenty of evidence of drugs being pushed onto patients that are known to have dangerous side effects such as your death.
Yes, the pharmaceuticals do conduct endless studies of their medicine, so they know exactly how dangerous they are. They still will get their dealers (GP's) to push their sh*t onto the unsuspecting public (the "pigeons" or "suckers" as they are known in the trade) in exchange for nice things like holidays, laptops and a range of other corporate gifts because officially they're not allowed to cut them in on the deal, but I'm sure there are ways around that to make sure that a GP will push Brand A over any other brands.
To think that going to the GP and be loaded with pills is in any way safer than going to the head shop is deluded beyond funny.
The days of the old country doctor telling people to cut back on smoking and drinking, get some bedrest and exercise more are long gone. Today the objective is to offload as many pills on as many people as possible.
The Swine Flu swindle is a great example.
Take the normal flu, give it a scary name and suddenly the governments of the world will be buying pills for billions of people.
Whoever makes the vaccination (and I know who, it rhymes with Bosch) made billions.
The actual death toll worldwide percentage wise is so ridiculously tiny, you might as well get vaccinated against getting struck by lightning seventeen times in the same week.
And why do head shops get burned down? Because drug pushers hate them with a vengeance, they take business away from decent, hard working scumbags.
The government should promote them, nothing in the history of the state has damaged drug dealers and criminals more than headshops.
But FF will just cave in to hysteria an.
Stupidity and ignorance rules.

First off I'm pro headshops if you have read any of my previous posts but to claim that pharmaceuticals and doctors are pushers is ridiculous and counter productive in anyway helping to regulate headshops.

I agree with most of your points made above. I know that doctors are wined, dined and 69'd to take drug x over y. But sales and profits drive the pharmaceutical industry. It allows for re-investment into new drugs/ treatments. If it was state run, we would probably be riddled with disease and back in the dark ages with regards to drug treatments.

I don't believe that you can blame the pharmaceutical industry for hysteria over swine flu..... IMO that was the media, not the pharmaceutical companies.

We need rational and level headed arguments from both sides of this argument, not mob rule, fear and group think. Pointing fingers at doctors etc and saying they are no better than headshops or drug dealers is ludicrous.

Shapey Fiend

Of course the swine flu hysteria was driven by the pharmaceutical companies. You watch US television in the last year or two and it's wall to wall drug commercials. Who advertises dictates the news because they're paying for the news.

They're not exactly making massive breakthroughs with drugs in the last 20 years or so anyway. Now that the swine flu vaccine made so much money they're going to start investing in nonsense vaccines instead of making genuine developments. I'm all for vaccines for a few essential things but no way I'm pumping 50 different sketchily tested ones into my body that do god knows what.

loctite

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Of course the swine flu hysteria was driven by the pharmaceutical companies. You watch US television in the last year or two and it's wall to wall drug commercials.

No i don't watch US television, I'm Irish, I was Irish/English TV commercials, where I have NEVER seen a commercial for tamiflu. In the US, patients can request different branded drugs, hence why they advertise. I have never heard of or asked to be prescribed any particular drug for an ailment or treatment in this country. I leave that to my doctor. So how would this drive "flu hysteria" in Ireland???

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

I'm all for vaccines for a few essential things but no way I'm pumping 50 different sketchily tested ones into my body that do god knows what.

I hope you aren't pro headshops, if so you just shot yourself in the foot. Have you any idea what regulations and approvals are required for medicinces in Ireland/US??

dr.fuzzenstein

loctite wrote: »

No i don't watch US television, I'm Irish, I was Irish/English TV commercials, where I have NEVER seen a commercial for tamiflu. In the US, patients can request different branded drugs, hence why they advertise. I have never heard of or asked to be prescribed any particular drug for an ailment or treatment in this country. I leave that to my doctor. So how would this drive "flu hysteria" in Ireland???



I hope you aren't pro headshops, if so you just shot yourself in the foot. Have you any idea what regulations and approvals are required for medicinces in Ireland/US??

If you can't ask for a drug by name no point advertising, but pay attention to how many ads there are for over the counter medicines (hits pain where it hurts, etc...) it's scary.
Also TV advertising wouldn't apply in the tamiflu case. Governments bought that stuff to vaccinate entire populations, that alone was worth the entire retail market several dozen times over. And yes, the press hyped it as much as they could too, nothing sells papers like a good horror story.
Personally I don't care about Headshops either way, I've smoked all I'm going to smoke and stopped before it started doing my head in.
In the end anything you put in your body has an effect, from butter to caffeine to drugs and alcohol. People should be made aware of the risks and then make up their own mind.
As for regulations, there are so many billions in the pharma market that surely some stuff slipped through the net that shouldn't have made it. Wink and nod and so on.

loctite

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In the end anything you put in your body has an effect, from butter to caffeine to drugs and alcohol. People should be made aware of the risks and then make up their own mind.

Here here.........totally agree

MikeyGorse

The hysteria surrounding these headshops is absolutely ridiculous. Looks like legal highs are here to stay so it's about time people just got on with their lives and stop whingeing!!

Alcohol is surely the worst drug out there!!

Balagan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

If you can't ask for a drug by name no point advertising, but pay attention to how many ads there are for over the counter medicines (hits pain where it hurts, etc...) it's scary.
Also TV advertising wouldn't apply in the tamiflu case. Governments bought that stuff to vaccinate entire populations, that alone was worth the entire retail market several dozen times over. And yes, the press hyped it as much as they could too, nothing sells papers like a good horror story.
Personally I don't care about Headshops either way, I've smoked all I'm going to smoke and stopped before it started doing my head in.
In the end anything you put in your body has an effect, from butter to caffeine to drugs and alcohol. People should be made aware of the risks and then make up their own mind.
As for regulations, there are so many billions in the pharma market that surely some stuff slipped through the net that shouldn't have made it. Wink and nod and so on.

Hmmm...

MikeyGorse

Read in the paper that there was a third 1 opening up soon enough and according to rumours it's going to be 24hr :pac:

entropic

MikeyGorse wrote: »

Read in the paper that there was a third 1 opening up soon enough and according to rumours it's going to be 24hr :pac:

If that turns out to be true then its a bit ridiculous, I am all for head shops being allowed with proper regulation but for a group that claims self regulation they have no one to blame but themselves for all the attention they are getting.

6 months ago there was none in Ennis and 3/4 in Limerick, now they are everywhere. Did they really expect that this wouldn't bring peoples attention to them and the products they supply.

finbarrk

One less now seemingly.

http://www.clare.fm/news/court-injunction-ennis-headshop

Stuxnet

from the Chinese themselves, "we are well prepared" to make new drugs to bypass the ban

yaaay, god bless them !! :rolleyes:

big FU to the fat elephant minister of health, should of just regulated it, golden opportunity missed !

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100329/tuk-chinese-to-produce-new-legal-highs-45dbed5.html

CptSternn

What good is it to close down shops of items that are not illegal? Do they really think that people will just stop buying these things? I mean, seriously, the reason they have so many head shops is because people are going there and buying things.

It's simple supply and demand. IF they shut the ones in town, people will go to Galway, Limerick, Kerry, Cork, Dublin, or one of the many other places that have them.

If they manage to close ALL of those shops, you can still find DOZENS of places that sell the same stuff online and will ship it to your front door the next day. Many of these places are still operating out of Ireland, they just don't have store fronts.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=legal+highs+buy+online

Unless they make the products illegal, they will still be everywhere. Even then, how exactly do they plan on stopping people from obtaining these items via post? I lived in America for a while. Cuban cigars are illegal. Every cigar store still had them, you just had to know the owner. If you didn't know an owner, you can order them via the internet. I mean, its not like they have drug sniffing dogs that can route out Cuban cigars. All the products in these head shops have active ingredients which have dual use. They can't ban them. Even if they try, people can still order it from China and have it shipped here as customs will have no way to tell whats legal and whats not.

It's nothing more than a political move to distract the people from the state of the economy, the fact there are no jobs, and the current banking fiasco. The head shops they are going after, likes the ones in Cork and Kerry, have been there for YEARS. Why is it only now they have decided its a priority issue?

It's a distraction.

goingpostal

http://www.drogasedemocracia.org/Arquivos/the-economist.pdf

CptSternn

goingpostal wrote: »

http://www.drogasedemocracia.org/Arquivos/the-economist.pdf

This November California is voting to legalise it. Obama has agreed to let the states handle drug issues, meaning if it passes in November, you will be able to grow, buy, sell, and smoke as much as you want, legally.

Seven other states currently have medicinal marijuana laws in place to allow some usage. If California is successful in getting it legalised, those states have already said they would follow suit.

fenianjohn

jesus thank god none of you people who agree with this rubbish have any get up and go in ye. ye are all talk when it comes to saying the headshops are doing no harm but will ye take to the streets and try to save them? its a big fat NO. did not see any of ye at the protest in town a few weeks ago or having yer own protest to keep them open. Ye are whats wrong with this country bunch of wasters. if ye like what the yanks do then feck off over there then they are your type of people anyway. Ennis has good people in maria ryan, the labour guy o shea and the young sinn fein guy sean hayes. no fear any of ye lay abouts can stop getting stoned and be as active and enthused as they are.



god help your kids they dont stand a chance

pappyodaniel

fenianjohn wrote: »

jesus thank god none of you people who agree with this rubbish have any get up and go in ye. ye are all talk when it comes to saying the headshops are doing no harm but will ye take to the streets and try to save them? its a big fat NO. did not see any of ye at the protest in town a few weeks ago or having yer own protest to keep them open. Ye are whats wrong with this country bunch of wasters. if ye like what the yanks do then feck off over there then they are your type of people anyway. Ennis has good people in maria ryan, the labour guy o shea and the young sinn fein guy sean hayes. no fear any of ye lay abouts can stop getting stoned and be as active and enthused as they are.

god help your kids they dont stand a chance

Good man John.

fenianjohn

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Good man John.

thanking you. i cant believe these fools try and defend this junk their brains cant be working right

fenianjohn

did those three anti headshop people go to the dail with their petition. i saw them collecting more name today in the square in ennis. if anyone knows them could you find out if they are holding another protest soon

goingpostal

fenianjohn wrote: »

jesus thank god none of you people who agree with this rubbish have any get up and go in ye. ye are all talk when it comes to saying the headshops are doing no harm but will ye take to the streets and try to save them? its a big fat NO. did not see any of ye at the protest in town a few weeks ago or having yer own protest to keep them open. Ye are whats wrong with this country bunch of wasters. if ye like what the yanks do then feck off over there then they are your type of people anyway. Ennis has good people in maria ryan, the labour guy o shea and the young sinn fein guy sean hayes. no fear any of ye lay abouts can stop getting stoned and be as active and enthused as they are.



god help your kids they dont stand a chance

Well at least we don't have to descend to the level of gratuitous ad hominem attacks to get our "point" across. I am still trying to figure that out.

entropic

fenianjohn wrote: »

jesus thank god none of you people who agree with this rubbish have any get up and go in ye. ye are all talk when it comes to saying the headshops are doing no harm but will ye take to the streets and try to save them? its a big fat NO. did not see any of ye at the protest in town a few weeks ago or having yer own protest to keep them open. Ye are whats wrong with this country bunch of wasters. if ye like what the yanks do then feck off over there then they are your type of people anyway. Ennis has good people in maria ryan, the labour guy o shea and the young sinn fein guy sean hayes. no fear any of ye lay abouts can stop getting stoned and be as active and enthused as they are.



god help your kids they dont stand a chance

No we don't go out and protest this because instead of being granted the right to voice our opinion we will be labelled stoners and wasters. I have publicly stated my preference to many friends and family about headshops just to be shouted down with cries of druggie and scum of society. Forgive me if I don't want to go to the streets where I become a target for people who believe even more that head shops are destroying our society.

It's very hard to fight a well organised but poorly informed mob

loctite

fenianjohn wrote: »

jesus thank god none of you people who agree with this rubbish have any get up and go in ye. ye are all talk when it comes to saying the headshops are doing no harm but will ye take to the streets and try to save them? its a big fat NO. did not see any of ye at the protest in town a few weeks ago or having yer own protest to keep them open. Ye are whats wrong with this country bunch of wasters. if ye like what the yanks do then feck off over there then they are your type of people anyway. Ennis has good people in maria ryan, the labour guy o shea and the young sinn fein guy sean hayes. no fear any of ye lay abouts can stop getting stoned and be as active and enthused as they are.



god help your kids they dont stand a chance

Fenian John......... GFYS.

Why would anyone go protrest for something that is legal......You and your kind seem to think that recreational drugs are the anti Christ incarnate........ Well why don't you feck off to some 3rd world country where such possession charges are greeted with a more severe penalty......

You and your group think are what is wrong with this country. You seem to think its fine to go out and get pissed with all your fenian fiends.....but yet head shops are some sort of a problem..... we'll see in the morning how many drink related problems are reported in the papers..... get a grip on reality...

Why should people like you, make decisions about what chemicals/substances I can put in my body?????

fenianjohn

loctite wrote: »

Fenian John......... GFYS.

Why would anyone go protrest for something that is legal......You and your kind seem to think that recreational drugs are the anti Christ incarnate........ Well why don't you feck off to some 3rd world country where such possession charges are greeted with a more severe penalty......

You and your group think are what is wrong with this country. You seem to think its fine to go out and get pissed with all your fenian fiends.....but yet head shops are some sort of a problem..... we'll see in the morning how many drink related problems are reported in the papers..... get a grip on reality...

Why should people like you, make decisions about what chemicals/substances I can put in my body?????

because it will be my tax money paying for the hospital treatment you will receive when you o.d on drugs or become mentally ill in years to come. then you will be crying foul because no one stopped you weaking your life waa waa

goingpostal

fenianjohn wrote: »

because it will be my tax money paying for the hospital treatment you will receive when you o.d on drugs or become mentally ill in years to come. then you will be crying foul because no one stopped you weaking your life waa waa

As it stands your tax money is being spent incarcerating non-violent drug offenders at a huge cost with no discernible result, except that the prisoners are usually exposed to more drugs in prison, and come out with an even worse drug problem than when they went in. So your tax money is being spent to enrich barristers and judges and achieving nothing else. Research has shown that for every $1 spent on drug rehabilitation, $7 is saved on drug-related crime (shoplifting, the cost of processing endless non-violent drug offenders). In this country, you are guaranteed to receive a longer prison term for non-violent possession with intent to supply, than you are for rape. Rape is the worse crime you can commit, apart from murder. Yet rapists are getting out after 3-4 years and sometimes even get off with suspended sentences because our prisons are clogged up with non-violent drug traffickers thanks to Nora Owens anti-drugs laws which were brought in in the 1990s. And despite all of your tax money which has been spent "fighting" a "war" on drugs, it is easier to purchase ANY drugs you want in every town and village in the country than ever before. THAT is my definition of a waste of money. At the same time, the alcohol industry is allowed to advertise its drug without restriction, tying in the consumption of alcohol with every communal event imaginable. But remember that alcohol is a taxable drug that can be regulated, and judging by the florid faces on a lot of our esteemed Teachta Daila's, something they imbibe on a regular basis. I would be in favour of prohibition of so-called hard drugs IF it could be shown that it works, but it doesn't work, it never has worked, and it never will work. It is time we woke up to that fact and tried something different, instead of trying to push back the tide.