An Irish club reaching the Champions League group stages

IRISHSPORTSGUY

A bit random and hypothetical but does anyone reckon it'll happen in the teenies? Crystal balls out and all that.

d22ontour

Would need a favourable draw...

Diabhal Beag

Honestly no. We are far below the average European clubs. They have great Youth Academies set up with the finest infrastructure whereas we are relying on a lucky draw and a lackluster side.

If we start building now we could have a team in whatever European Cup there is (assuming no Master European league comes about) by 2020ish.

Bobalicious93

Can easily see Rovers doing it withing the next couple of years, especially with the new qualifying setup, makes it that bit easier.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I could see Rovers in it by 2016.

dannydiamond

Cork City came close a few years ago with a massive effort against Galatassary at turners cross.

dreamers75

Bohs in August 2010

best chance LOI has had in a longtime, but it really really comes down to the draw.

DSB

Nah we're way off, we'll be lucky to get another team to where Shels got to a few years ago, once a team is at that level, then its another huge climb to get past that, because favourable draw or no, you WILL be playing a team with a massively larger budget than you. I would agree that the team in the best position to go furthest in this decade is Rovers though.

GO'S

limerick fc had real madrid in the final round ages ago won 1 nil away and then lost 5 nil at home i think

DSB

GO'S wrote: »

limerick fc had real madrid in the final round ages ago won 1 nil away and then lost 5 nil at home i think

Nah they lost both legs but came very close at home. This wasn't a qualifying round either, it was back when it was the European Cup with just the league winners in a knockout competition.

sillymoo

St pat's last year did well.

dreamers75

DSB wrote: »

Nah we're way off, we'll be lucky to get another team to where Shels got to a few years ago, once a team is at that level, then its another huge climb to get past that, because favourable draw or no, you WILL be playing a team with a massively larger budget than you. I would agree that the team in the best position to go furthest in this decade is Rovers though.

pats knocked on the door twice in last 2 years of UEFA cup, we got bad draws twice but bumped up everyone elses coeff

6 ties for us with a record of W5 L4 D3 i think

Bohs with Quigley Cretaro Byrne and Madden actually have the players to take that chance* and i think will do it next season.


*for PL fans in every Euro game you get one chance, so far LOI has failed to take that chance and see out the game.

Eire-Dearg

Admittedly, I'm far from the Irish soccer fan I should be - but I would love to see the Irish league as a whole build into a decent, consistent league with money to last.

bohsman

Sheriff Tiraspol Moldova Greece Olympiacos
Red Bull Salzburg Austria Israel Maccabi Haifa
Ventspils Latvia Switzerland Zürich
Copenhagen Denmark Cyprus APOEL
Levski Sofia Bulgaria Hungary Debrecen

Basically need to be able to beat the above over 2 legs, difficult but certainly not impossible. Fair play to Platini for opening the competition up a bit more again.

dreamers75

bohsman wrote: »

Sheriff Tiraspol Moldova Greece Olympiacos
Red Bull Salzburg Austria Israel Maccabi Haifa
Ventspils Latvia Switzerland Zürich
Copenhagen Denmark Cyprus APOEL
Levski Sofia Bulgaria Hungary Debrecen

Basically need to be able to beat the above over 2 legs, difficult but certainly not impossible. Fair play to Platini for opening the competition up a bit more again.

Do you go to bed chanting LAtvia latvia latvia latvia ?

jesus_thats_gre

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Admittedly, I'm far from the Irish soccer fan I should be - but I would love to see the Irish league as a whole build into a decent, consistent league with money to last.

Generally don't give a toss about Irish football (although I do like to see Dundalk do well) but I would love to see an Irish team in the CL.

DSB

dreamers75 wrote: »

pats knocked on the door twice in last 2 years of UEFA cup, we got bad draws twice but bumped up everyone elses coeff

6 ties for us with a record of W5 L4 D3 i think

Bohs with Quigley Cretaro Byrne and Madden actually have the players to take that chance* and i think will do it next season.


*for PL fans in every Euro game you get one chance, so far LOI has failed to take that chance and see out the game.

Winning the league is a pre-requisite to an Irish team qualifying for the CL, on that basis I think you can rule Pats out, the Europa League group stages are a slim possibility for a LOI side, although very unlikely, the CL group stages aren't happening, unless Rovers can do something serious over the next few years.

You're not taking into account, that Bohs will have to face two sides of much bigger stature, with much more technically gifted players, over two legs. Bohs did very well against Red Bull Salzburg last year and still weren't good enough, I don't think they're enough better this year to even get past that stage, never mind looking at that mountain to navigate in front of it. And Bohs will have to face much stronger sides than what Pats defeated in their EL campaign. Elfsborg and Kyrijila Sovetov will not be in the CL qualifying rounds because instead of them there are stronger teams like AIK and Rubin Kazan who would eat Bohs for breakfast.

DSB

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Generally don't give a toss about Irish football (although I do like to see Dundalk do well) but I would love to see an Irish team in the CL.

Don't worry, we know.

dreamers75

DSB wrote: »

And Bohs will have to face much stronger sides than what Pats defeated in their EL campaign. Elfsborg and Kyrijila Sovetov will not be in the CL qualifying rounds because instead of them there are stronger teams like AIK and Rubin Kazan who would eat Bohs for breakfast.

No offence but we would have beaten Red Bull over 2 legs, fairly sure you know it and any LOI fan knows it. We were quite good in Europe(win bonus i reckon) taking a high horse vs the greatest LOI side ever in europe ever is a bit rich.

Bohs with Quigley have the player to score in Europe vs any side, should come down to the other players playing to his European level. Im fairly certain Bohs will do it this year.

Winning the league is a pre-requisite to an Irish team qualifying for the CL, on that basis I think you can rule Pats out

Sadly we work on a budget and stick to it a pre requiste Bohs know nothing off.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

Don't worry, we know.

Know what now

DSB

dreamers75 wrote: »

No offence but we would have beaten Red Bull over 2 legs, fairly sure you know it and any LOI fan knows it. We were quite good in Europe(win bonus i reckon) taking a high horse vs the greatest LOI side ever in europe ever is a bit rich.

Bohs with Quigley have the player to score in Europe vs any side, should come down to the other players playing to his European level. Im fairly certain Bohs will do it this year.





Sadly we work on a budget and stick to it a pre requiste Bohs know nothing off.

You don't actually think Pats achievements are as good as Shels beating Hadjuk Split (an actual top team) and going 150 minutes toe to toe with Deportivo, then putting in a top challenge against Lille and taking it over to France. I know Pats haven't had much to celebrate but lets not get over enthusiastic, beating Maltese opposition, and then the side who ended up finishing 10th in the Russian league, before being comfortably dispatched by Steaua.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Know what now

That you have the same opinion of every English PL fan pretty much, it wasn't going to come as much as a surprise.

jesus_thats_gre

DSB wrote: »

That you have the same opinion of every English PL fan pretty much, it wasn't going to come as much as a surprise.

Cool!

bohsman

Bohs wont have to beat teams much better than Salzburg to qualify - the list I posted above was the final qualifying round, just getting to that round guarantees Europa League group stages.

DSB

bohsman wrote: »

Bohs wont have to beat teams much better than Salzburg to qualify - the list I posted above was the final qualifying round, just getting to that round guarantees Europa League group stages.

Olympiacos, Dynamo Moscow, Celtic, Anderlecht, Slavia Prague, Timişoara, Sivasspor, Panathinaikos, Zürich, Sporting CP, Shakhtar Donetsk, Sparta Prague, Twente

I hate to disappoint you, but this is the actual list Bohs would have had to face to get into the CL, which will be somewhat similar this year. They're all a good bit better than Red Bull on paper, despite some seriously good results for Red Bull in the Europa League. I assure you every team on that list would crush Bohs, Rovers, whichever LOI team you wanna name, without mercy. We're just not that good enough yet, and aren't heading in the right direction.

bohsman

DSB wrote: »

Olympiacos, Dynamo Moscow, Celtic, Anderlecht, Slavia Prague, Timişoara, Sivasspor, Panathinaikos, Zürich, Sporting CP, Shakhtar Donetsk, Sparta Prague, Twente

I hate to disappoint you, but this is the actual list Bohs would have had to face to get into the CL, which will be somewhat similar this year. They're all a good bit better than Red Bull on paper, despite some seriously good results for Red Bull in the Europa League. I assure you every team on that list would crush Bohs, Rovers, whichever LOI team you wanna name, without mercy. We're just not that good enough yet, and aren't heading in the right direction.

Wrong, the system has been changed. One path for champions and one path for runners up - ie Celtic, Anderlecht etc. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2%80%9310_UEFA_Champions_League#Third_qualifying_round

stovelid

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Generally don't give a toss about Irish football (although I do like to see Dundalk do well) but I would love to see an Irish team in the CL.

I find it hard to believe that an Irish club will break into the group stages any time soon. Time seems to be running out for the type of crazy financial outlay which was the only thing keeping the chance of European progression even within sniffing range.

You'll just be left with the Irish conundrum: Irish teams can't reach the group stages because people "don't give a toss" about Irish teams because they don't reach the group stages.

Plus the more that qualification for the group stages becomes an excuse for clubs here to run aground while chasing it and the more it becomes the badge of validation necessary for people to "give a toss", the more I start to not give a shit about it.

d22ontour

DSB wrote: »

Olympiacos, Dynamo Moscow, Celtic, Anderlecht, Slavia Prague, Timişoara, Sivasspor, Panathinaikos, Zürich, Sporting CP, Shakhtar Donetsk, Sparta Prague, Twente
I assure you every team on that list would crush Bohs, Rovers, whichever LOI team you wanna name, without mercy.

Without being an ass to your ass of a post..You must have absolutely no clue about football to be able to tell us that you can assure us of anything regarding football results without mercy as you so put it.

I am sure you have made millions from such predictions ? :rolleyes:

Infact it might surprise you that some Irish clubs are actually half decent and may or may not be able to hold their own with a favourable draw against the teams you quoted.Nobody expects the LOI to achieve much ,but ,to say they would be crushed without mercy tells me you have little knowledge of the dynamics of football.

:rolleyes:

Seaneh

DSB wrote: »

Olympiacos, Dynamo Moscow, Celtic, Anderlecht, Slavia Prague, Timişoara, Sivasspor, Panathinaikos, Zürich, Sporting CP, Shakhtar Donetsk, Sparta Prague, Twente

I hate to disappoint you, but this is the actual list Bohs would have had to face to get into the CL, which will be somewhat similar this year. They're all a good bit better than Red Bull on paper, despite some seriously good results for Red Bull in the Europa League. I assure you every team on that list would crush Bohs, Rovers, whichever LOI team you wanna name, without mercy. We're just not that good enough yet, and aren't heading in the right direction.

If you had a clue what you were talking about you might have a leg to stand on.
But you don't, so you don't.

Seaneh

With the changes Platini has implimented there is a better chance than ever and we shouldn't rule it out.

Need the idiots running the FAI and LOI to be shot in the face for it to happen though.

jesus_thats_gre

Someone had a good night ^^^^

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes think of all the venues, Dalymount would be great to stage Champions league football. Still the home of Irish football for me. Amazed how it was never properly developed as a stadium and an indictment of how we let both Milltown and Dalymount flounder.

DSB

d22ontour wrote: »

Without being an ass to your ass of a post..You must have absolutely no clue about football to be able to tell us that you can assure us of anything regarding football results without mercy as you so put it.

I am sure you have made millions from such predictions ? :rolleyes:

Infact it might surprise you that some Irish clubs are actually half decent and may or may not be able to hold their own with a favourable draw against the teams you quoted.Nobody expects the LOI to achieve much ,but ,to say they would be crushed without mercy tells me you have little knowledge of the dynamics of football.

:rolleyes:

I'm a big LOI fan, I know well the quality of the league, it just isn't on the cards.

Seaneh wrote: »

If you had a clue what you were talking about you might have a leg to stand on.
But you don't, so you don't.

Because I didn't know that the format had changed this season? Because that was the format for last season.

That_Guy

I'm not the biggest fan of Irish football but I'm a bit of a passenger when it comes to Irish teams qualifying for either the Europa League or Champions League. Was at the Pats game last year against Salzburg.

Nice to see LOI fans as a whole regardless of who they support come together to support an Irish team in a qualifying game.

PDN

DSB wrote: »

Olympiacos, Dynamo Moscow, Celtic, Anderlecht, Slavia Prague, Timişoara, Sivasspor, Panathinaikos, Zürich, Sporting CP, Shakhtar Donetsk, Sparta Prague, Twente

I hate to disappoint you, but this is the actual list Bohs would have had to face to get into the CL, which will be somewhat similar this year. They're all a good bit better than Red Bull on paper, despite some seriously good results for Red Bull in the Europa League. I assure you every team on that list would crush Bohs, Rovers, whichever LOI team you wanna name, without mercy. We're just not that good enough yet, and aren't heading in the right direction.

But, as we all know, nothing in football is that certain. Nine times out of ten those teams would beat any LoI team - but a crushing defeat is far from guaranteed.

Two years ago Drogheda United (pre financial meltdown) came within a whisker of knocking out Dynamo Kiev on away goals. Most of the Drogheda players on the pitch that day are still with LoI clubs.

Spiritoftheseventies

Just putting it out there. What budget would an LOI club need to be on to achieve Champions league football without affecting the general finances of the club.
As mentioned Shelbourne came very close but their finances suffered as a result. I think a dream is achievable but we need to avoid a repeat of last decade where Administration seemed to be a regular occurence.
For me its run the club in an organised fashion, pay the players realistic wages and attract the neutrals back into the ground by playing attractive football.

DSB

PDN wrote: »

But, as we all know, nothing in football is that certain. Nine times out of ten those teams would beat any LoI team - but a crushing defeat is far from guaranteed.

Two years ago Drogheda United (pre financial meltdown) came within a whisker of knocking out Dynamo Kiev on away goals. Most of the Drogheda players on the pitch that day are still with LoI clubs.

No I know that, but had Drogheda gone and beaten Dinamo Kiev, they would have had to go and do it again against Spartak Moscow (I think it was?) and if Bohs had done Red Bull they would have been up against Dinamo Moscow. On any given day, anyone can beat anyone, hell even over 2 legs, you can get that bit of luck against a team naturally much stronger than you (like we did against Hadjuk Split), but managing not to let the actual levels show over 4 legs is next to impossible. Its a gigantic jump to going from not being quite good enough to get past the 2nd qualifying round, to being good enough to navigating the 2nd and the 3rd.

And unfortunately, our league does have the same pool of players (or the equivalent) as before, with more players going over to England from it, so the level of the top club isn't really improving. Bohs have signed very well this winter, but have also lost what I would view to be their 2 best players, with a few more like Heary and Byrne aging another year, Bohs will probably be at around the same level as they were last year, and its going to be very hard for a team from our league to jump higher than that level, because we'll continue to be a feeder club to UK teams if we get players of a level high enough to go over that. Thats why I think Rovers might be the only team who could break that cycle, because if they can actually build up those finances (organically, not spending money they don't have) then maybe they can increase the standard of player the top team in the LOI gets to have.

DSB

bayviewclose wrote: »

Just putting it out there. What budget would an LOI club need to be on to achieve Champions league football without affecting the general finances of the club.
As mentioned Shelbourne came very close but their finances suffered as a result. I think a dream is achievable but we need to avoid a repeat of last decade where Administration seemed to be a regular occurence.
For me its run the club in an organised fashion, pay the players realistic wages and attract the neutrals back into the ground by playing attractive football.

Organic growth.

LuckyLloyd

bohsman wrote: »

Bohs wont have to beat teams much better than Salzburg to qualify - the list I posted above was the final qualifying round, just getting to that round guarantees Europa League group stages.

Oscar, looking back at the Red Bull game and thinking about how Boh's matched up to them (leaving aside the result), what percentage of the time do you think they would progress from that type of tie?

The Volt

LOI clubs have to learn from past mistakes and walk before they run. I think Rovers are very fortunate that we have a level headed board that knows that. I don't expect it to happen any time soon though

Spiritoftheseventies

DSB wrote: »

Organic growth.

?????????????

Ferris_Bueller

To be honest I kind of agree with what DSB is saying. LoI clubs may well be able to put up a fight to the likes of Dynamo Kiev and Salzburg, even Deportivo and Lille back when Shels were in Europe. So yes as most are saying on here it is possible that Rovers or Bohs or whoever it may be, can beat these teams that they have came so close to beating before. But I don't think anyone can deny that these teams are of better quality than anything out league has to offer.

DSB I think is correct in saying that over 4 legs it is next to impossible to punch above your weight and come out on top, which is what must be done to get to the group stages of the Champions League now (albeit a lot easier than it was before Platini changed the system). It is possible, just very very unlikely at the moment I would say. If Rovers keep up the good work they have been doing and can keep on developing at the rate they did last year then who knows, maybe they will be the team to do it in 3 or 4 years.

But for now, Europa League should be our goal, which is realistic and I think we do have a chance of in the immediate future. Possibly even Bohs in 2010 could get into the Europa League group stages, which would be a fantastic achievement.

mike65

If it happened would it not completely unbalance the LOI as the riches to the club that makes the breakthrough would be vast in an Irish context.

The Volt

mike65 wrote: »

If it happened would it not completely unbalance the LOI as the riches to the club that makes the breakthrough would be vast in an Irish context.

:O It'd be the first ever unbalanced domestic league!

Pisco Sour

I have to honestly say that if an Irish team made the group stages and drew Man Utd or Liverpool, the chances are the game would be moved to Lansdowne Road, and the majority of the supporters would be supporting the English team. Should such a scenario ever happen I will feel great shame. It would be an absolute embarrassment to this country.

GLaDOS

Can't see champions league group stage being achieved really unfortunatly, Europa league I think would be possible, given a favourable draw

LuckyLloyd

04072511 wrote: »

I have to honestly say that if an Irish team made the group stages and drew Man Utd or Liverpool, the chances are the game would be moved to Lansdowne Road, and the majority of the supporters would be supporting the English team. Should such a scenario ever happen I will feel great shame. It would be an absolute embarrassment to this country.

The league in its current form is an absolute embarrassment to those who devote emotional or financial resources to it. I always think these types of discussions are pointless until a sustainable league structure is created and enforced from the top of the Premier Division to the bottom of the First.

Pisco Sour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The league in its current form is an absolute embarrassment to those who devote emotional or financial resources to it. I always think these types of discussions are pointless until a sustainable league structure is created and enforced from the top of the Premier Division to the bottom of the First.

Regardless of that it would still be embarrassing to see Irish people cheering for a foreign team against an Irish team, in an Irish Stadium.

You could say this is hypothetical but you know as well as me that this is exactly what would happen should an Irish team draw United or Liverpool.

LuckyLloyd

04072511 wrote: »

Regardless of that it would still be embarrassing to see Irish people cheering for a foreign team against an Irish team, in an Irish Stadium.

You could say this is hypothetical but you know as well as me that this is exactly what would happen should an Irish team draw United or Liverpool.

Aye, it is and its trueness doesn't really add to the discussion at hand being perfectly honest.

GLaDOS

04072511 wrote: »

I have to honestly say that if an Irish team made the group stages and drew Man Utd or Liverpool, the chances are the game would be moved to Lansdowne Road, and the majority of the supporters would be supporting the English team. Should such a scenario ever happen I will feel great shame. It would be an absolute embarrassment to this country.

I'd say if we got Liverpool or United, all the other teams fans would show up to support the Irish team

Pisco Sour

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I'd say if we got Liverpool or United, all the other teams fans would show up to support the Irish team

They would be supporting the Irish team for the wrong reasons though.

Pisco Sour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Aye, it is and its trueness doesn't really add to the discussion at hand being perfectly honest.

Actually it does. The title of this thread is "An Irish club reaching the Champions League group stages", and I am discussing the implications of this.