trailed vs old self propelled

John deere 6920

which is better to have an old self propelled or a newish trailed machine g like a jf 900 vs a claas jaguar 840/695

snowman707

an old self propelled could be a pain in the a*** & in the cheque book

John deere 6920

snowman707 wrote: »

an old self propelled could be a pain in the a*** & in the cheque book

yes but which is cheaper a trailed or self propelled .. not a new self propelled thou..

hammer73

Lift the phone and ring some dealers, then you will have the answer to your question. As you well know price depends on age and condition of the machine.

Here all you are going to get is speculation as to which will be cheaper, dealers will give you some prices and you can then see for yourself.

dasheriff

I would say a fairly fresh jf 900 or 1050, especially if its only for your own silage as you can use the tractor for the rest of the year.
Old self propelled machines can cause alot of trouble and i wouldnt go near one unless you know who had it and how it was treated.

bk1991

dasheriff wrote: »

I would say a fairly fresh jf 900 or 1050, especially if its only for your own silage as you can use the tractor for the rest of the year.
Old self propelled machines can cause alot of trouble and i wouldnt go near one unless you know who had it and how it was treated.

jf 1050 would be best option .its only going used 10 days max in one year if just for urself why have machine staying idel in shead for whole year .u will prob have use for tractor that could do more than just drive harvester or just hire tractor for few days to drive harvester its tax deductable and u can get vat back

powerfarmer

This isnt a direct answer to the OP question but may be worth considering, On the self propelled machines mentioned Claas Jaguar 695, for any repairs that would be needed the 600 series jaguars are known for being a difficult machine to work on as access to the blower, chute motor, and chopping cylinder drive is quite tight.
The newer 820/840 are easier to work on due to inproved access to the major components.
The newest 690/695 will now be around 15 years old so are likely to be well worn, and the Merc engines in all models suffer from problems with the cooling system after a few years also Claas spare parts can be expensive often moreso than other brands.

whelan1

imo the op has his own opinions before posting so nothing we say will change him:eek:

hammer73

i agree, this is the third thread on the same topic and little attention seems to be taken from any contributors on any of them....

Tipp Man

John deere 6920 wrote: »

which is better to have an old self propelled or a newish trailed machine g like a jf 900 vs a claas jaguar 840/695

Hey JD 6920, I think you started a similar thread a few weeks ago about contractor v farmer??

Baring this in mind I think you need to give us some additional info about your circumstances such as:

1) What machinery do you currently have and what condition
2) How many acres of your own silage would you be cutting per cut
3) What labour do you have available
4) Would you be thinking about doing a few contracting jobs if the opportunity arose


Hard to say what we think without this info

F.D

Just my two cents worth, Dont go self prop, complete waste of a machine unless you have thousands of acres, i have worked trailed foragers and wagons in the past, there simple enough and fairly robust, and the output is fairly good, first i used a J.F 900 good machine but the Tarrup 10 x is a different story very soft machine ended up blowing its self to bits.
as a farmer you probably want quality silage Get a wagon or trailed harvester do you own and no one elses and use the tractor for some other job afterwards

John deere 6920

Tipp Man wrote: »

Hey JD 6920, I think you started a similar thread a few weeks ago about contractor v farmer??

Baring this in mind I think you need to give us some additional info about your circumstances such as:

1) What machinery do you currently have and what condition
2) How many acres of your own silage would you be cutting per cut
3) What labour do you have available
4) Would you be thinking about doing a few contracting jobs if the opportunity arose


Hard to say what we think without this info

oK tipp man .. We only got 2 tractors but they are a zetor 9540 wit loader.. she an animal btw.. and a moffett she more off a loader proper.. she puts up our maize pits.. we cut about 100-130 acres off silage. we have plenty off labour arund. including myself my brother my father and few friends who wud do it.. We cud also do my uncles place he does 60 acres off silage too. he got 1 tractor but she recked..WE use to be contractors but my father pulled out off it. we only cut 500 acres.!!

John deere 6920

F.D wrote: »

Just my two cents worth, Dont go self prop, complete waste of a machine unless you have thousands of acres, i have worked trailed foragers and wagons in the past, there simple enough and fairly robust, and the output is fairly good, first i used a J.F 900 good machine but the Tarrup 10 x is a different story very soft machine ended up blowing its self to bits.
as a farmer you probably want quality silage Get a wagon or trailed harvester do you own and no one elses and use the tractor for some other job afterwards

YEs we want quailty silage .. proablem we have is we cant get contractor the day we want him.. its all always next week when weather bad.. ANd also we want cheap silage too rather then paying contractor...

John deere 6920

whelan1 wrote: »

imo the op has his own opinions before posting so nothing we say will change him:eek:

some people getting moody for no reason .? think its funny.

whelan1

no i dont actually ... you are just wasting peoples time ... get a life , why ask other peoples opinions when you have no intentions of taking any of them on board

whelan1

John deere 6920 wrote: »

YEs we want quailty silage .. proablem we have is we cant get contractor the day we want him.. its all always next week when weather bad.. ANd also we want cheap silage too rather then paying contractor...

maybe if you looked after your contractor you would get him when you want him , i have no problem getting mine exactly when i want him

hammer73

You have asked 2 different questions on this thread

which is better to have an old self propelled or a newish trailed machine
which is cheaper a trailed or self propelled

You can have a different answer to each which is not what you are looking for.

You also want cheaper silage as well as quality silage.

I think you need to do some simple maths to get a handle on what to do here. Each year you pay 100 euro an acre for 110-130 acres. (100x130 = 13,000)

Over 5 years that adds up to 65,000 euro.

If you want to do it yourself then all your costs need to add up to less than 65k over 5 years, for your costs you need to factor in everything from interest on money borrowed, depreciation, fuel, breakdowns, labour etc. If that all adds up to less than 65k over 5 years then you have cheaper silage.

If you are confident in the machinery that you have and are sure that you can save the silage in between the showers as well as make it to a good quality then you will also have quality silage.

Regarding self propelled or trailed as i said in an earlier post, you need to ring up some dealers and get prices for machines. Look at what machinery you need for a trailed outfit as well as a S/P outfit and compare costs.

You are doing better than most if you have 50K or 60k to invest in equipment like this or you have a very generous bank manager.

Keep us informed as to how you get on.

John deere 6920

whelan1 wrote: »

no i dont actually ... you are just wasting peoples time ... get a life , why ask other peoples opinions when you have no intentions of taking any of them on board

Alright whelan1 calm down, i am taking people comments on boards and i have actually gone off the fact that self-propelled is way to go.. im looking into trailed+ wagon silage.. and yes we do look after our contractor he is a good friend off ours actually. in east cork.. only 5-6 contractors around.

John deere 6920

hammer73 wrote: »

You have asked 2 different questions on this thread

which is better to have an old self propelled or a newish trailed machine
which is cheaper a trailed or self propelled

You can have a different answer to each which is not what you are looking for.

You also want cheaper silage as well as quality silage.

I think you need to do some simple maths to get a handle on what to do here. Each year you pay 100 euro an acre for 110-130 acres. (100x130 = 13,000)

Over 5 years that adds up to 65,000 euro.

If you want to do it yourself then all your costs need to add up to less than 65k over 5 years, for your costs you need to factor in everything from interest on money borrowed, depreciation, fuel, breakdowns, labour etc. If that all adds up to less than 65k over 5 years then you have cheaper silage.

If you are confident in the machinery that you have and are sure that you can save the silage in between the showers as well as make it to a good quality then you will also have quality silage.

Regarding self propelled or trailed as i said in an earlier post, you need to ring up some dealers and get prices for machines. Look at what machinery you need for a trailed outfit as well as a S/P outfit and compare costs.

You are doing better than most if you have 50K or 60k to invest in equipment like this or you have a very generous bank manager.

Keep us informed as to how you get on.

yes i see ur point hammer73 and in 5 years dont u actually do 6 seasons off silage?

hammer73

if you take 1 cut a year and take your calculations over 5 years then i would base my costings on 5 cuts.

whelan1

John deere 6920 wrote: »

yes i see ur point hammer73 and in 5 years dont u actually do 6 seasons off silage?

there you go again :rolleyes: we have 5 or 6 contractors round us and no problem in the wide world to get any of them if you give them a bit of notice and treat them right

John deere 6920

whelan1 wrote: »

there you go again :rolleyes: we have 5 or 6 contractors round us and no problem in the wide world to get any of them if you give them a bit of notice and treat them right

yes we know em all well too...

Colmm23

whelan1 wrote: »

there you go again :rolleyes: we have 5 or 6 contractors round us and no problem in the wide world to get any of them if you give them a bit of notice and treat them right

Have to agree, its as simple as this. If you are running your enterprise as efficiently as you can you should have your contractor booked a month in advance. So to reiterate my point in your other thread organize your farm that it is running as efficiently as possible and then think about investing in machinery, and maybe a diet feeder should be your priority not a silage harvester.

cjpm

Colmm23 wrote: »

Have to agree, its as simple as this.

Have to disagree

In our area, say if we were to ring the contractor six months in advance, and set a particular date, say May 28th, and if it rained up to from the 20th to the 1st of June, then obviously he would be way behind in his schedule and might cut it on the 7th. Nobody's fault, just the weather..... Every other contractor would be in the same situation, no point calling them to cut it.

However say i have the fields shut since the 1st of April (or indeed not grazed at all) then you can imagine that the quality of the silage would plummit as it would be way too heavy, and might be beginning to rot at the base. Sure what can you do...

However i can see JD6920's point, if i had the labour available too, i'd be doing mine, in the first dry spell of weather. For us anyway from about 1998 to 2008 it was almost impossible to get hold of any guys i'd trust to haul silage on a public road, we're not in the habit of taking chances with youngfellas...

Buy the way JD6920, do your sums before investing in anything, if i were you i'd totally forget the idea of a self propelled and would be thinking more along the lines of an older trailed machine. And if the sums still don't add up, keep the contractor and consider spending your few bob on a diet feeder as Colmm23 suggests.

whelan1

cjpm wrote: »

Have to disagree

In our area, say if we were to ring the contractor six months in advance, and set a particular date, say May 28th, and if it rained up to from the 20th to the 1st of June, then obviously he would be way behind in his schedule and might cut it on the 7th. Nobody's fault, just the weather..... Every other contractor would be in the same situation, no point calling them to cut it.

However say i have the fields shut since the 1st of April (or indeed not grazed at all) then you can imagine that the quality of the silage would plummit as it would be way too heavy, and might be beginning to rot at the base. Sure what can you do...

However i can see JD6920's point, if i had the labour available too, i'd be doing mine, in the first dry spell of weather. For us anyway from about 1998 to 2008 it was almost impossible to get hold of any guys i'd trust to haul silage on a public road, we're not in the habit of taking chances with youngfellas...

Buy the way JD6920, do your sums before investing in anything, if i were you i'd totally forget the idea of a self propelled and would be thinking more along the lines of an older trailed machine. And if the sums still don't add up, keep the contractor and consider spending your few bob on a diet feeder as Colmm23 suggests.

we are not talking about ringing a contractor 6 months in advance but to give them an idea of where your silage is at , you dont have to worry about who is drawing on the road as it is their problem

maidhc

whelan1 wrote: »

we are not talking about ringing a contractor 6 months in advance but to give them an idea of where your silage is at , you dont have to worry about who is drawing on the road as it is their problem

Last summer east cork got about 10 rain free days, and that is no exaggeration. The few contractors left around (there are very very few, believe me) were working 24 hours a day those days, but still people were not reached.

Invest in diet feeders all you want, but the cheapest way to feed animals during the winter is good quality silage, cut at the right time and in the right conditions.

I think if there is sufficient labour it is a no brainer to do your own silage.

John deere 6920

maidhc wrote: »

Last summer east cork got about 10 rain free days, and that is no exaggeration. The few contractors left around (there are very very few, believe me) were working 24 hours a day those days, but still people were not reached.

Invest in diet feeders all you want, but the cheapest way to feed animals during the winter is good quality silage, cut at the right time and in the right conditions.

I think if there is sufficient labour it is a no brainer to do your own silage.

we have plenty off labour around.. and yes ur right we had to cut our 2nd cut in pissing rain .. wasnt fun at all.. silage was so wet effilunt was running off pit when we was done before we had plastic on it.. diet feeder is well down the line.. east cork is normaly dry but not in the last few years

powerfarmer

Local farmer here makes his own silage using a Teagle Toucan 8, its a JF precision chop harvester mounted to a 14' (I think) tandem axle trailer, just a slightly different take on the silage wagon concept with shorter chop length than a typical wagon.
It might suit the OP if he wants independence in silage making and should be able to drive it ok with his 9540 and put up the clamp with the Moffett, but output probably wouldnt break any records.
Just another option.

John deere 6920

powerfarmer wrote: »

Local farmer here makes his own silage using a Teagle Toucan 8, its a JF precision chop harvester mounted to a 14' (I think) tandem axle trailer, just a slightly different take on the silage wagon concept with shorter chop length than a typical wagon.
It might suit the OP if he wants independence in silage making and should be able to drive it ok with his 9540 and put up the clamp with the Moffett, but output probably wouldnt break any records.
Just another option.

thank u powerfarmer but i think the 1 tractor drawing wud be any good. we have 100 acres-130acres to cut like and idk the output but it wudnt be very good? we also having milking to do in morning and evening. so day fairly short

red menace

Is Wrapping totally out of the question?
Give you complete control over the silage,
Could cut as and when needed , less labour and machinery required
Yer Zetor should have plenty of power to drive a baler and wrap with the moffett and you have 2 tractors for drawing bales?

cjpm

whelan1 wrote: »

we are not talking about ringing a contractor 6 months in advance but to give them an idea of where your silage is at

I can assure you i don't ring the contractor 6 months in advance, but i was just making the point that no matter when you book them, it's still totally weather dependent.

whelan1 wrote: »

you dont have to worry about who is drawing on the road as it is their problem

You misunderstood me there, i meant if i was to do my own silage and to hire guys to draw silage for me using my tractor and trailer, then if they had an accident or whatever, then it's very much my problem. And it will be even more of a problem for me when i go to renew the farm insurance the following year!

whelan1

having done silage myself for many years , i can not say how much hardship it was , especially when you have to milk the cows twice a day too ... think the contractor is still the way to go;)

cjpm

John deere 6920 wrote: »

thank u powerfarmer but i think the 1 tractor drawing wud be any good. we have 100 acres-130acres to cut like and idk the output but it wudnt be very good? we also having milking to do in morning and evening. so day fairly short

If you have plenty of labour you shouldn't have any problems. All you need are 3 fine days.

Day 1
1 or 2 mowing,

Day 2 & 3
1 picking it up,
3 drawing
1 on pit

Day 4
Covering it.



Day needn't be too short if you plan it right.

Milking from 6:00 to 8:00 - Someone else could be greasing and filling tractors with diesel
Food 8:00
Start cutting at 8:30
Stop at 13:00 for 30 min
Milking again from 17:00 to 19:00 - Could have a fella mowing during this time? And someone else could be greasing and filling with diesel.
You should be able to keep cutting till 23:00

That's 12 hours cutting, assume 5ac per hour = 60 ac per day.

You don't need new or flash machinery, everything just needs to be reliable and well maintained.

cjpm

whelan1 wrote: »

having done silage myself for many years , i can not say how much hardship it was , especially when you have to milk the cows twice a day too ... think the contractor is still the way to go;)

I'd agree with you 100%, if you don't have the sufficient labour then it's nothing but hardship.

However, good labour and reliable machines are a must if cutting your own silage is to be a success.

Tipp Man

John deere 6920 wrote: »

oK tipp man .. We only got 2 tractors but they are a zetor 9540 wit loader.. she an animal btw.. and a moffett she more off a loader proper.. she puts up our maize pits.. we cut about 100-130 acres off silage. we have plenty off labour arund. including myself my brother my father and few friends who wud do it.. We cud also do my uncles place he does 60 acres off silage too. he got 1 tractor but she recked..WE use to be contractors but my father pulled out off it. we only cut 500 acres.!!

Personally I don't think you have a big enough base of machinery to start cutting your own, For a trailed machine you'll need 120hp+ and I think the Zetor is what 90??

What about drawing in?? Minimum of 2-3 tractors needed for both trailed and SP

If you go hiring in then you defeat the purpose of cutting your own i.e low cost and machinery ready to go when suits you

The best option by far in your situation is a wagon in my opinion imo , although i think you are lacking a bit of power for a good sized one. Wagons can get through a fair bit of ground nowadays and you only need 1 tractor and a loader, ideal for you i would say (hp requirement would need to be looked at though)

John deere 6920

red menace wrote: »

Is Wrapping totally out of the question?
Give you complete control over the silage,
Could cut as and when needed , less labour and machinery required
Yer Zetor should have plenty of power to drive a baler and wrap with the moffett and you have 2 tractors for drawing bales?

i dont think bales wud be for us. we proably only make 100.. average.. last year thou we had to make bales cuz our silage base was underconstruction... my uncle does bales thou.. 300-500 . we only got 2 tractors

John deere 6920

Tipp Man wrote: »

Personally I don't think you have a big enough base of machinery to start cutting your own, For a trailed machine you'll need 120hp+ and I think the Zetor is what 90??

What about drawing in?? Minimum of 2-3 tractors needed for both trailed and SP

If you go hiring in then you defeat the purpose of cutting your own i.e low cost and machinery ready to go when suits you

The best option by far in your situation is a wagon in my opinion imo , although i think you are lacking a bit of power for a good sized one. Wagons can get through a fair bit of ground nowadays and you only need 1 tractor and a loader, ideal for you i would say (hp requirement would need to be looked at though)

Well from figures i was told we could invest in €65000 worth off gear over 5years but thats also labour diesel and all that..our zetor is 95hp she an animal thou.. we cud hire in 2 tractors.. very cheap

John deere 6920

Tipp Man wrote: »

Personally I don't think you have a big enough base of machinery to start cutting your own, For a trailed machine you'll need 120hp+ and I think the Zetor is what 90??

What about drawing in?? Minimum of 2-3 tractors needed for both trailed and SP

If you go hiring in then you defeat the purpose of cutting your own i.e low cost and machinery ready to go when suits you

The best option by far in your situation is a wagon in my opinion imo , although i think you are lacking a bit of power for a good sized one. Wagons can get through a fair bit of ground nowadays and you only need 1 tractor and a loader, ideal for you i would say (hp requirement would need to be looked at though)

Tipp man there are plenty off tractors to be hired in at silage time so there wont be a shortage. and its easy.. we cud invest in a tractor wit 150hp+ but it wud push a budget and wat wud the tractor be doing when its not on trailed .. only slurry proably..

DanFindy

I would definately look into your own rig for a couple a very important reasons.
Plenty labour
Flexability

You have the zetor to haul the harvestor dont buy a very wide harvestor and have a little patience. Look at buying a good reliable second tractor bargains are to be had at the minute.
Buy 2 trailers yourself maybe hire in someone with a trailer for a third
Moffett ready to go for pit side work

If i was in your situation i certainly would have my own rig, too much quality silage can be lost when waiting on contractors. get yourself geared up and ready early in the season and when the weather comes your ready to let rip !!

John deere 6920

DanFindy wrote: »

I would definately look into your own rig for a couple a very important reasons.
Plenty labour
Flexability

You have the zetor to haul the harvestor dont buy a very wide harvestor and have a little patience. Look at buying a good reliable second tractor bargains are to be had at the minute.
Buy 2 trailers yourself maybe hire in someone with a trailer for a third
Moffett ready to go for pit side work

If i was in your situation i certainly would have my own rig, too much quality silage can be lost when waiting on contractors. get yourself geared up and ready early in the season and when the weather comes your ready to let rip !!

our zetor is good but she not ready for a trailed yet i say... we need more power.. like 150+ like a ford tw35 or something like that and maybe fords drawing.. i see good silage trailers for sale.. i know someone bought 2 smyths €6000 each and they had high sides nothing gone wrong wit em.. good trailer..

dasheriff

John deere 6920 wrote: »

our zetor is good but she not ready for a trailed yet i say... we need more power.. like 150+ like a ford tw35 or something like that and maybe fords drawing.. i see good silage trailers for sale.. i know someone bought 2 smyths €6000 each and they had high sides nothing gone wrong wit em.. good trailer..

You dont need a tractor that big you could power a JF900 on 120hp no bother.If you got somethin like a zetor 14145 you`d have plenty of power.
You would get a good clean one for 10,000 or less,they are a great tractor except for the brakes but that shouldnt be a problem with the wor your doin they would last no problem..

whelan1

we had a tm125 on the jf900 and a mf 3080 on it before that - no problem to either tractor

DanFindy

Well id say if u bought a good powerfull old tractor in good nick and a couple a silage trailers and a harvester youd be away with it, if minded they will last a long time, trailers can be bought cheaper than that 2 i saw a donnelly and a johnston sold recently for v good money you would of had both for 6000k

John deere 6920

whelan1 wrote: »

we had a tm125 on the jf900 and a mf 3080 on it before that - no problem to either tractor

and how did the tm perform apart from the presssure plate going!?

hammer73

Power needed for harvester depends on size of sward being picked up. Ive had a JD7800 on its knees picking up 20ft of first cut cause it was that heavy. Only gear that would work was A1!

I agree 125hp should be enough but dont expect to break any records if the crop is heavy and you are picking up a grouped sward.

John deere 6920

DanFindy wrote: »

Well id say if u bought a good powerfull old tractor in good nick and a couple a silage trailers and a harvester youd be away with it, if minded they will last a long time, trailers can be bought cheaper than that 2 i saw a donnelly and a johnston sold recently for v good money you would of had both for 6000k

i know we can get silage trailers for 1000-3000each at most... no way wud we pay more then €5000 for trailers.. we want a farily modern tractor. maybe a 6610 or something.. john deere or a 6900. get them very cheap.

John deere 6920

dasheriff wrote: »

You dont need a tractor that big you could power a JF900 on 120hp no bother.If you got somethin like a zetor 14145 you`d have plenty of power.
You would get a good clean one for 10,000 or less,they are a great tractor except for the brakes but that shouldnt be a problem with the wor your doin they would last no problem..

we dont really want a zetor .... sick off em.. great tractor thou.. HOw much wud jf 900 cost i wonder?

John deere 6920

hammer73 wrote: »

Power needed for harvester depends on size of sward being picked up. Ive had a JD7800 on its knees picking up 20ft of first cut cause it was that heavy. Only gear that would work was A1!

I agree 125hp should be enough but dont expect to break any records if the crop is heavy and you are picking up a grouped sward.

our crop is heavy and ya it wud be easier to pick up 20ft swards..? wud jf 900 do it or wud we need a jf 1050?

hammer73

considering it will be owner operated and you are only picking up less than 200 acres a year a JF900 should be ok. Probably more 900's about so there will be more choice.

John deere 6920

hammer73 wrote: »

considering it will be owner operated and you are only picking up less than 200 acres a year a JF900 should be ok. Probably more 900's about so there will be more choice.

ok thanks hammer73. ya less then 200 acres unless someone asks can we cut theres..

powerfarmer

Atkins in Cork have a 900 on their website €4500, last time I was up there they had two other ones as well, a very rough 900 and one new 955.