Should we as a State provide public funded childcare?

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

I would say most reposnsible parents do look at where they are financially and how they will cope financially with children.
Of course some won't and will always be of the opinion that they get backing fromthe state.
But life is never that simple.
Do you tell a woman in her thirties to keep waiting until she is truly financially sound to have children ? Good luck on that one.
Do you suggest abortion if people accidentally get pregnant ?

People's lives change and their situations change.
They might be financially very well off today, but tomorrow they can be scraping by.
Are people meant to look 10 years into the future ?

I don't know why you seem incapable of understanding what is meant by a reasonable amount of responsibility in the choice to have children. (I do notice you've started putting in responsible in your posts, when you hadn't before) Being financially responsible, means that you will not be relying on the state to support your having children. Simple. But you keep dragging this out, as if I'm condemning everyone that chooses to have children. You really should reread what you originally wrote because thats what I replied to and the slant of this discussion between us.

What is your definition of being in a position financially to care for them ?
Does it mean you have to have enough money in the bank to cover their entire schooling and college fees ?

Nope. I was more concerned with having an income that will cover the period of 1-2 years. If things go all ****ty after that, then its hardly anyone's fault.

Maybe come back to us when you do have children and then we can see if your opinions have changed.

I doubt it. And my not having children does not disqualify my having a reasonable opinion on the subject. I've been in the situation of being in a relationship where we could have had children.. I felt neither of us were ready for that responsibility, and in the end she moved on to find someone who was ready. At that time, we were both 23 years old, just finished Uni, had student loans, etc.

If I have children, I was to be reasonably sure I can provide for my family. I will not factor in support from the state when preparing that. If in the future, I need that support, fine. But I would not be acting in their interests by having them, without seeking to be prepared somewhat for the future.

We differ in opinion. Fine..

I bet they will, just like someone who can't see problem with healthservice until they are queuing in A&E for 12 hours.

And where did you pluck this from? Nothing I have ever spoken about.

Anyway we are going round in circles, never the twain and all that, time to move on.

Nope. If you disagree and want to move on, fine. Say so. But don't disagree with me, try to dismiss my stance, and then decide to move on. You are the one who has such issues with being responsible in choosing to have children. If anything.... you seem to advocate having children first, and then figuring out how to support them.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. If you disagree and want to move on, fine. Say so. But don't disagree with me, try to dismiss my stance, and then decide to move on. You are the one who has such issues with being responsible in choosing to have children. If anything.... you seem to advocate having children first, and then figuring out how to support them.

Since I do have children who require looking after by it'sd parents, not you, not the state or any other poster on here, I am going to say this once: I never advocated anywhere that someone should just have children and worry about the consequences later, but neither do I like you seem to think that life is so laid out in stone.
As you noted in last post people's situation can change.
People who were fine previously suddenly find themsleves scraping by and I don't just mean unemployed but with lower salaries and higher costs.

The reason I invoked the health service is because it is easy to say you don't agree with something when it doesn't affect you.
How many people claim that the health service is fine since they have never had to darken the doors of an A&E department or they never had to see an elderly reltive left on a trolley for 20 odd hours.
Thus it is much the same as the childless posters claiming that there isn't a childcare problem in this country.

I do disagree with you, but where was I dismissive by saying never the twain shall meet?
And because life is too short I can't be bothered debating this any further with you. We have differing points of view, we are both entitled to that.

As I said come back to us when you do have kids and they need childcare and you may have a different viewpoint, I know I have.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Since I do have children who require looking after by it'sd parents, not you, not the state or any other poster on here, I am going to say this once: I never advocated anywhere that someone should just have children and worry about the consequences later, but neither do I like you seem to think that life is so laid out in stone.

I seem to have to keep repeating myself to you. I have never suggested that life is set in stone. There is nothing in being financially responsible about choosing to have children which is particularly limiting. Your stance has been that if people don't have children now, then there won't be a future tax base, and therefore with an aging population the country will be worse off than before. So people should be having kids now. I'm not against that, except that just having kids is likely to put us in a worse positon that before, since many of these parents will be looking to the state to support them and their children. Hence my belief in the need to be financially responsible about knowing the costs of raising children and having an abaility to cover them in the short term i.e. 1-2 years.

The reason I invoked the health service is because it is easy to say you don't agree with something when it doesn't affect you.

You have absolutely no idea whether it affects me or not, since we have never had a discussion about it before. Its a useless comparison based on an assumption with flawed logic. i.e. you know my opinion on the subject.

Thus it is much the same as the childless posters claiming that there isn't a childcare problem in this country.

Again, I have never said there isn't a childcare problem in this country. There are indeed issues with childcare in this country, especially when you compare it to other countries I have lived in like Australia. But I believe that a rather large problem is the numbers of people who have children and then think afterwards how to support them for the next 20 odd years. And then within that grouping are those who abuse the system by having child after child they can't support themselves.

I do disagree with you, but where was I dismissive by saying never the twain shall meet?
And because life is too short I can't be bothered debating this any further with you. We have differing points of view, we are both entitled to that.

Never mind.

As I said come back to us when you do have kids and they need childcare and you may have a different viewpoint, I know I have.

This i do have a problem with. I find this particularly dismissive. I have chosen not to have children because I wasn't willing to bring them into the world when I didn't have a home, savings, or a dependable income. If I reach that stage again with a significant other, I will still face the same decision based on those requirements. That will not change.

97i9y3941

dont think it work,i mean,we go back to the usual sh#te of wages,the unions etc the usual legal eagle rubbish we have,dont they have creches in dail and rte?,woundnt people entilted to the gov creches then if they where on the dole?..

Overheal

Double Edged Legislation. Youre putting more families into the workforce but taking more responsibilities from parents. Frankly, theres already a clear lack of parenting going on.

The quality of such a creche system would want to be maintained to a high standard where children/toddlers are being nurtured not monitored. But even then, like with Nanny Software Drinking Ages and anything else, nothing is a better substitute than good, raw parenting from a Parent.