It's icy out there, go practice!

cormie

With the icy condition, and not much experience driving in ice under my belt I decided to go find some empty industrial estates to get a feel of how to deal with skidding and losing control. I must say after a while I got quite used to it and was able to control myself much better and knew what to expect too. If you have the time and don't care too much for your car this is something I'd suggest to get a feel for the road. Just be safe and make sure you've enough space.

If anyone can recommend a huge open space with no curbs/trees/poles etc in South Dublin/North Wicklow, please share

Random

I've gotta navigate out of my housing estate, onto the main roads, and then on to an industrial estate. Seems like a bit of a mad idea?

Matt Simis

Random wrote: »

I've gotta navigate out of my housing estate, onto the main roads, and then on to an industrial estate. Seems like a bit of a mad idea?

Youre probably going to have to leave your house at some point, might as well be on your own terms no?

Random

Gonna avoid it unless I have to. I'll have the same ability and experience whether I do it today or Monday for work !

Matt Simis

Random wrote: »

Gonna avoid it unless I have to. I'll have the same ability and experience whether I do it today or Monday for work !

Eh no..! His point would be you could prepare for the far more dangerous rush hour commute with less people on the roads and with no pressure on yourself to get somewhere. You would then have more experience and ability on Monday, which is safer for you and anyone you meet.

Its up to you to weigh up if merely making any attempt to practice warrants a risk to today vs making no attempt at all and driving out in it anyhow later, with even greater risk. Unless you have the luxury of simply not driving to or from work in ice at any point?

jaffa20

Ugh, i dreading the monday morning trailback. Dublin grinds to a halt at the sight of a single snowflake.

Creamy Goodness

jaffa20 wrote: »

Ugh, i dreading the monday morning trailback. Dublin grinds to a halt at the sight of a single snowflake.

don't forget a single rain drop too.

Barname

a few pointers....

start off in 2nd gear

always stay in the highest possible gear at low revs

use gears to brake

cormie

I wouldn't call it a single snowflake now, it's pretty damn slippy out there! I was doing 180's with very little effort using the handbrake. For people who don't drive much and haven't experienced it yet, they will get a big surprise and these next few days could make it pretty hard to beat 2009's road death rate unless people know how to drive in the ice, or don't drive at all. As somebody who has no choice but to drive, I've to be prepared for anything mother nature throws at me and I'd suggest going out for a bit of safe practice to anyone in the same boat. If you don't have to drive, don't!

The Express

Good look to ya with that idea, OP.

Comparing an empty industrial estate to a road with brain dead yummy mummies in jeeps they cannot handle even in the Summer, grumpy Dubbalin Bus drivers, and auld fellas in Hyundai Accents - you may aswell be experimenting with a lunar buggy.

sdanseo

Bit of a cross post from weather, but this is what happens when you combine ice and an incline (and an idiot taximan)...

sesna

Barname wrote: »

a few pointers....

start off in 2nd gear

always stay in the highest possible gear at low revs

use gears to brake

Good tips, dont forget to have your left hand on the hand brake too for taking corners. Just pull it till car slides around , then accelarate out of the slide. Allows you to keep momentum up.

Seth Brundle

The Express wrote: »

Good look to ya with that idea, OP.

Comparing an empty industrial estate to a road with brain dead yummy mummies in jeeps they cannot handle even in the Summer, grumpy Dubbalin Bus drivers, and auld fellas in Hyundai Accents - you may aswell be experimenting with a lunar buggy.

...and the fact that a skid, etc. whilst driving 'normally' would take the driver with surprise which may take so long to react and control that by the time the driver would have had control, they have already hit something!

cormie

I think any bit of extra experience is a good thing. Getting yourself stuck like in the video posted above, you'd be able to test out various ways to get going again (the driver didn't seem to try and reverse and was revving quite high, a simple slow lift off the clutch without using the accelerator probably would have done the trick). There's no way going out for some practice would have any negative impact as long as you don't get too comfortable with driving on ice and do things you shouldn't do

jimmycrackcorm

cormie wrote: »

With the icy condition, and not much experience driving in ice under my belt I decided to go find some empty industrial estates to get a feel of how to deal with skidding and losing control. I must say after a while I got quite used to it and was able to control myself much better and knew what to expect too. If you have the time and don't care too much for your car this is something I'd suggest to get a feel for the road. Just be safe and make sure you've enough space.

If anyone can recommend a huge open space with no curbs/trees/poles etc in South Dublin/North Wicklow, please share

Or you could wait 20 years and become experienced....

HashSlinging

The Express wrote: »

Good look to ya with that idea, OP.

Comparing an empty industrial estate to a road with brain dead yummy mummies in jeeps they cannot handle even in the Summer, grumpy Dubbalin Bus drivers, and auld fellas in Hyundai Accents - you may aswell be experimenting with a lunar buggy.

Think your missing the point a little bit.. but never mind.

sdanseo

cormie wrote: »

I think any bit of extra experience is a good thing. Getting yourself stuck like in the video posted above, you'd be able to test out various ways to get going again (the driver didn't seem to try and reverse and was revving quite high, a simple slow lift off the clutch without using the accelerator probably would have done the trick). There's no way going out for some practice would have any negative impact as long as you don't get too comfortable with driving on ice and do things you shouldn't do

Didnt want to reverse as there were cars behind me and I had no idea what the car would do. It was the first time I've ever driven in anything nearly that bad so I was stumped as to what to do, tbh. Pushing the car just seemed to work :P

Spook_ie

of course you could have left the car at home and taken the taxi instead of driving yourself

sdanseo

Spook_ie wrote: »

of course you could have left the car at home and taken the taxi instead of driving yourself

Well spook with the best of respect to your profession if I'd have got in that taxi that cut me up I'd have got out of it there and then. I was overtaken dangerously by one other taxi, saw another speeding and yet another that had my mam in it slid into another car at traffic lights. In general, taxi drivers drive in an intimidating, aggressive and "I own the road" manner and that comes from someone whose style of driving in normal conditions would be classed as fairly fast.

Add the fare @ under 21km/h * 1hr 20mins and I think I'd prefer to look after myself :pac:

Raiser

Cormie is right - Why should your first really out of control skid happen in traffic? You need to have a feel for the weight of the car and its handling on loss of traction if you want to stay safe.

I've had a few People skidding across lanes towards me in oncoming traffic since this icy weather began and they looked like they were considering opening the door and jumping out as the best option available to them.

I had a Girl in a red Micra inform me one morning that her brakes had "completely failed" after she had sprinted up to the last car in a line of traffic on a very obviously icy stretch and hit her brakes and the poor Person in her sights - to her mind the brakes just did not work and she had no notion why...... I met her cause she wasn't just to drive again (car fine) and I stopped to ask was she ok etc.

Even after the thaw all the Tailgaters should get themselves into an Industrial Estate car park and learn about reaction times + stopping distances in wet conditions - Preferably with a wall involved for emphasis on the point.....

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Or you could wait 20 years and become experienced....

This is complete nonsense - Time passes regardless of our actions or inaction and the act of learning or informing ourselves happens because of our actions.....

cormie

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Or you could wait 20 years and become experienced....

Not sure what you mean by this

sdonn wrote: »

Didnt want to reverse as there were cars behind me and I had no idea what the car would do. It was the first time I've ever driven in anything nearly that bad so I was stumped as to what to do, tbh. Pushing the car just seemed to work :P

Pushing the car is fine alright if you weren't sure how the car would react by reversing, but can you imagine the delays and danger caused if every second person gets in the same situation and needs to find a willing driver to help give a push if they're on their own? That's why I think each of us should go out and practice getting in that same situation where the car wont move off easily, see what works best with your car and what would probably be most cars. We've all got to learn sometime and those who aren't willing should commit to stay off the roads until the conditions pass. It's just best to be in a traffic/pedestrian free zone when we do

turnsoutIwas

sdonn wrote: »

Bit of a cross post from weather, but this is what happens when you combine ice and an incline (and an idiot taximan)...

Stopping on a roundabout is wrong. Should have continued around it and made the turn on your second pass when you couldnt get to your exit. Bit of a grey area but that is what you are meant to do.

MagicMarker

turnsoutIwas wrote: »

Stopping on a roundabout is wrong. Should have continued around it and made the turn on your second pass when you couldnt get to your exit. Bit of a grey area but that is what you are meant to do.

Maybe you should watch the video again?

antodeco

Cornie, are you still driving the van?

Massive Muscles

I always do this on roads when I see a bit of ice, feel the back coming out or test the steering so I know what the limits are for the rest of the journey.

turnsoutIwas

MagicMarker wrote: »

Maybe you should watch the video again?

Ok I watched it again.

I know the taxi SHOULD have waited due to the ice etc but its a two lane roundabout so the poster could have continued around it, hugging the roundabout at a slow controlled speed. I'm not saying that the taxi was right to keep going but he did and driving is about reacting to idiocy a lot of the time.

Maybe I'm missing something: slight hangover and I probably wouldn't drive right now myself so maybe I should keep my opinions to myself.

cormie

antodeco wrote: »

Cornie, are you still driving the van?

Yep, well I've Transit and Astra vans and was practising last night in a car. Would be interesting to see how the Transit handles too, wonder how easily it would topple over :eek:

Barname

Barname wrote: »

a few pointers....

start off in 2nd gear

always stay in the highest possible gear at low revs

use gears to brake

Any tips for an automatic?
I'll have to venture out today at some point today unfortunately and February this year was the first time I have ever driven on ice like this so a bit worried. Thanks.

antodeco

cormie wrote: »

Yep, well I've Transit and Astra vans and was practising last night in a car. Would be interesting to see how the Transit handles too, wonder how easily it would topple over :eek:

The reason I ask is that I saw someone driving a white transit through my estate (lucan) last night, with rear wheels locked up going around a corner! Though it was you

v300

Deleted User wrote: »

Any tips for an automatic?
I'll have to venture out today at some point today unfortunately and February this year was the first time I have ever driven on ice like this so a bit worried. Thanks.

Accelerate slowly, and brake smoothly and slowly.
Keep the speed down in preparation for a slide off crash.

Leave 10 times the space than normal between you and the next car.:D

Try to get a lift with an experienced driver ???

v300

v300 wrote: »

Accelerate slowly, and brake smoothly and slowly.
Keep the speed down in preparation for a slide off crash.

Leave 10 times the space than normal between you and the next car.:D

Try to get a lift with an experienced driver ???

So common sense then!

In the event of a slide, how should I react?

I'm an experienced (and good) driver, just not experienced on ice!

roryq69

Deleted User wrote: »

Any tips for an automatic?
I'll have to venture out today at some point today unfortunately and February this year was the first time I have ever driven on ice like this so a bit worried. Thanks.

Leave the automatic at home! If you got no iidea how to drive it in ice you shoudl not venture into traffic untill you get some experience like was said in OP! Auto's are lethal on ice. you cant control gear change which is vital on ice. Used to have a 4x4 automatic and even with low range gear and 4x4 it was a handful. Head off to an open carpark and see what happens when you just give it a little too much power!

v300

Deleted User wrote: »

So common sense then!

In the event of a slide, how should I react?

I'm an experienced (and good) driver, just not experienced on ice!

Don't be afraid of a bit of Opposite lock:
If she skids try to straighten her, and try to let the tyres do the work,
not your brakes.
If your braking or accelerating as well as trying to steer,
then your overtasking the tyres megre resources of grip.
Just steer.

Just steer, correct the skid, and slow her down as gently as you can.
If it all continues to goes pear shaped, try to point the car at something
soft not hard in anticipation of a crash, then hope for the best.

If you've lost the car in the presence of other drivers
put on the hazards, and blow the horn repeatedly,
try to give them all a bit of warning that you're in trouble.

PS Change gears manually if posible with the shifter, and use snow mode if the car has it.
OR if it's an older car lock her into second so as she won't change gear unexpectedly on you.
IE Don't use D, use second.

roryq69

roryq69 wrote: »

Leave the automatic at home! If you got no iidea how to drive it in ice you shoudl not venture into traffic untill you get some experience like was said in OP! Auto's are lethal on ice. you cant control gear change which is vital on ice. Used to have a 4x4 automatic and even with low range gear and 4x4 it was a handful. Head off to an open carpark and see what happens when you just give it a little too much power!

Kind of contradicting yourself there Can't head off to a carpark to practice if I have to leave the car at home!

The manual car is dead as a dodo so I will be going out in the Volvo, regardless, and to be honest, when we had the really cold snap in Feb I found the Volvo (auto) much better at handling the ice than the BMW (manual) anyway.

I'm perfectly capable of driving the car sensibly, I just want to know what to do in the even of a slide?

v300

v300 wrote: »

Don't be afraid of a bit of Opposite lock:
If she skids try to straighten her, and try to let the tyres do the work,
not your brakes.
If your braking or accelerating as well as trying to steer,
then your overtasking the tyres megre resources of grip.
Just steer.

Thanks, so I shouldn't turn into the skid? I should straighten it up. Glad I got new tyres last week now!

There have been cars pulling in and out of the shop beside me all morning and apart from the odd wheelspin they don't seem to be having too much trouble, hopefully the roads aren't too bad out there.

Anyone been out in the Shankill area today that can advise how driving is?

v300

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm perfectly capable of driving the car sensibly, I just want to know what to do in the even of a slide?

It's not rocket science, you'll be grand with the bit of advice I gave ya !

v300

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks, so I shouldn't turn into the skid? I should straighten it up.

Whoopsa, here is a good link: No point in me trying to write it better than this site does.

http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/controlling-skid.php

it seems counterintuitive to aim your car in the direction it's skidding, but it's the only way to get control back―and you'll be relieved when it works.

cormie

antodeco wrote:

The reason I ask is that I saw someone driving a white transit through my estate (lucan) last night, with rear wheels locked up going around a corner! Though it was you

Not me I'm afraid, I wasn't that far North

Deleted User wrote: »

Kind of contradicting yourself there Can't head off to a carpark to practice if I have to leave the car at home!

How far do you have to travel today when you have to head out? It wont take you long to find a decent empty area to do a little practice in, even the car park at Shanganagh in Shankill might be empty? If you ever see yourself urgently needing to travel in such conditions for long distances or in busy areas, then a quick short drive to an empty area to practice would be worth taking the car from home

cormie

cormie wrote: »

How far do you have to travel today when you have to head out?

I don't have to go far at all really, but the car park at the dart station may not be such a bad idea!

Thanks for the helps lads!

MarkN

I nearly lost it on New Years Eve, driving slowly, down the hill from Donnycarney towards Griffith Ave and bang, out of nowhere the back was facing the wrong way up the road and now sliding backwards, nothing I could do about it, tyres not designed for the road conditions so that didn't help, luckily nobody was right behind or beside me as it would've been a messy end to a lovely car.

You can practice and it will help I've no doubt but I was happy I could just bring the car to a stop within a few seconds, all the practice in the world wouldn't have helped me if cars behind had been a bit closer.

I'm just leaving the car tucked away until it melts, I've to drive tonight and I'm dreading it already as I've no other car available to me, if I did I woudn't even take the M3 out.

The roads are a f**king disgrace around Dublin, there wasn't a gritter in sight and I still haven't seen once since and I've a good mind to send the invoice I'll have for a new alloy to Dublin City Council.

bazzachazza

I have spent the last two days and nights commuting to work at Dublin airport from Enfield in Meath. No slips or spins what so ever thankfully. I have driven a bit in very cold conditions in Canada (-30c and 6inches of snow on road) so knew a bit of what I could expect. Usual commute time is 35mins but was taking 65mins or so. Max speed was 95km/h last night but that was on a clear bit of motorway with no frost or ice and that was only for 2mins rest of the time was not above 60 on the mway and 50ish on the N roads. N2 was an aweful disgrace.

I agree completely with the OP and his suggestion of getting out to a large empty space and increasing your experience of ice and snow skids. Very helpful for skids in general and how you should and shouldn't react.

I found that if I accelerated and let the cars traction control decide what power was acceptable it then put the power from one side to the other where it had grip I did this in 2nd and 3rd going up the on ramp at Kilshane on to the N2(was the only place I could do this) it was about the only way I could get the car to move forward and increase speed from walking pace. The car automatically limited the revs and power delivery. If yours doesn't have traction control I suggest lifting the clutch ONLY in first do not accelerate to get the car moving as I found 2nd was either going to spin the wheels or laboured, 3rd caused the car to stall once so I gave up on that.

If you can plan ahead for lights use engine/gear braking to slow down and use 1st gear as well and crawl towards the lights if they're red, this will save you sliding through and having to accelerate to start up. Be very careful of cars that cannot stop when their light goes red also more people will continue through even if the light has just gone red as they will not be able to stop safely in time so don't be eager to blast off when your light goes green.

Avoid aggressive steering inputs, if you have an empty road when you start off test the braking conditions.

bazzachazza

I agree with markn roads and their treatment have been an utter disgrace. Thank god this wasn't during a normal week or their would have been millions lost in business and car accidents. It still shocks me how less than 1 INCH off snow can do this to our country.

Webmonkey

I always tap on the brakes in a straight quiet location to feel if the ABS starts tapping. Least in my car, it's very sensitive so I usually get an idea how bad conditions are out there by doing this first and then adapting to these conditions. Of course only do this if you have ABS or you might lock up :eek:

As said already....

Drive in a high gear /low revs, especially up hill or you might start turning!
No sudden stepping on accelerator
No sudden braking...use gears to brake as much as you can.
keep away from brake around corners

bazzachazza

Avoid steep hills.

j@utis

this is what (not) to do if you're a passenger applies to the driver too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY

the video not showing, it's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
p.s. breaking and locking up your car wheels is the worst thing to do

Alanstrainor

j@utis wrote: »

this is what (not) to do if you're a passenger applies to the driver too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY

the video not showing, it's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
p.s. breaking and locking up your car wheels is the worst thing to do

Fixed that video for ya.

The lads in the window videoing it were dumb. They knew well what was going to happen, why they didn't try to warn the driver just boggles the mind. And as for the bailing out, good god what were they thinking! I know it's a panic situation, and there was a big hill, but i would not have bailed!

Kurtosis

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The lads in the window videoing it were dumb. They knew well what was going to happen, why they didn't try to warn the driver just boggles the mind.

I thought exactly the same after watching the video but the description on youtube puts things in context a bit:

Shocking driving condtions in Paignton on the busiest shopping day of the year. The car is barely moving but the hill makes stopping impossible and both people in the front of the car decide to jump out?????

The couple were warned by neighbours not to venture out that day and they were the only people to attempt to drive on that road. There were numerous pedestrians around who could barely walk on the black ice so a car really stood no chance.

Near the start of the video you can see a recovery truck. This had been stuck there, blocking the road for 3 hours and didn't move for another 2 hours after this incident.

The reason the video ends abruptly is because my wife and I raced downstairs to see if there were any injuries to the couple. Once I made it past the red cars in the right of the frame, it was clear that several people were seeing to the couple around where the car ended up.

Pretty obvious to see why many people are finding this so funny but believe me, not one person who witnessed this was laughing at the time. My wife and I felt physically sick, as did many others. Thankfully, the couple involved didn't suffer any serious injuries. More importantly, no pedestrians or children were hit by the abandoned car.

PLEASE, check your local roads before setting out on a journey. Listen to local radio, speak to neighbours and try to avoid being part of incidents like this.

Big Nasty

Obviously a lot of negative comments for this vid - commenting has now been disabled and has almost 1mill views!