O2 won't replace my phone

diamondtooth

3 months ago I purchased a €200 Nokia E51 mobile from the O2 store in Blanchardstown shopping centre.
Two months later the menu button on the phone stopped working and I could not access any of the menu options without turning off the phone and turning it on again every time.

I went to the store and the manager told me to take the battery out every 2 weeks and this would fix the problem for 2 weeks at a time. This didn't work.

I went to the store a second time. I was told the phone would have to be sent away to be repaired. I had to pay a €50 deposit to get the loan of a crap phone for a week while my phone was sent away. The 'loan' phone I got had hardly any of the features of the €200 phone I paid for.

I went to the shop a third time a week later to collect my repaired phone. It worked for about 2 days and the problem returned.

I went back to the shop a 4th time. I asked for my money back, I do have the receipt. I was told they would NOT refund OR replace my telephone. They will only send my phone away for another repair.

I think this is unacceptable. My phone was already sent away to be repaired and it has come back with the same fault. O2 say they will only refund my money after the phone has been sent away for repair 3 times! So I am now left with a faulty phone and they will not give my money back.

The girl in the shop said to me I can try and fix it myself! The store manager told me to speak to O2 Customer Service and Customer Service told me to speak to my store manager!

I read the Consumer Law on this and it says if a product was sent away for repair and comes back still not working, the consumer is then entitled to a refund or replacement.

Does anyone have any advice for me please? I find this so annoying. And I have been an O2 customer for 8 years!

sdanseo

The policy is to send it away for repair and if it comes back to the store a third time, to replace it completely. Unfortunately sending it through the store is time-consuming as it has to be sent to the repair place and sent back.

Save yourself some time and hassle and drop into fonemenders yourself, either in the GPO arcade or South Anne Street. Bring a proof of purchase with you, they'll fix it on the spot (1hr) for €20 or overnight for free.

www.fondmenders.ie

This is who O2 send the phones to so it's the same service, heck probably even the same person fixing it!

diamondtooth

Thanks for the reply!

Yes I know that is their policy but why should I have my phone sent away again and have it replaced by a basic phone which I didn't pay for? It was sent away already and still isn't working. And I have to drive back to the store to have it sent away and back again to collect it each time!

Is their policy not simply unacceptable?

twowheelsonly

sdonn wrote: »

The policy is to send it away for repair and if it comes back to the store a third time, to replace it completely. Unfortunately sending it through the store is time-consuming as it has to be sent to the repair place and sent back.

Save yourself some time and hassle and drop into fonemenders yourself, either in the GPO arcade or South Anne Street. Bring a proof of purchase with you, they'll fix it on the spot (1hr) for €20 or overnight for free.

www.fondmenders.ie

This is who O2 send the phones to so it's the same service, heck probably even the same person fixing it!

The only problem with that is that the Store manager will probably tell you that you invalidate the warranty by doing that - even if it is the same service that they use!! (Not that the warranty seems to be doing you much good in any case)

Go back to the shop, bring a well groomed friend with you with either a dictaphone or a pen and notepad and tell them to record everything that's said. If anybody asks it's just a friend. Then watch how polite and helpful they become!! All you're doing is intimidating them the same way that they're doing to you.
'Store policy' isn't worth a toss in comparison to consumer rights. Don't get your back up and start preaching your rights - this only gets their back up and they're already quite aware of your rights. As politely as you can explain to them that you won't be accepting that phone back but you will accept a replacement. Leave them with no option basically.

drunkmonkey

diamondtooth wrote: »

why should I have my phone sent away again and have it replaced by a basic phone

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Go back to the shop, bring a well groomed friend with you with either a dictaphone or a pen and notepad and tell them to record everything that's said. If anybody asks it's just a friend. Then watch how polite and helpful they become!! All you're doing is intimidating them the same way that they're doing to you

diamondtooth they won't replace ur phone with lesser model, nearly every time its a like for like exchange, your phone has a 2yr warranty, get it sent back to the same repair company, if its fixed this time happy days if it's not they repair company will replace it. The reason it has to go to the repair company is the shop can't tell if it's physically damaged or a genuine fault, store staff are not qualified engineers. Maybe try a software update yourself using nemisis and see does it sort it, ask over in mobile&pda form if ur not sure how to do it. @twowheelsonly ur likley to get ur self barred from the store and any recording will be inadmissable in court without permission of who you recording and also the owner of the business premises permission. Thats some of the worst advice i've seen given out yet.

twowheelsonly

drunkmonkey wrote: »

diamondtooth they won't replace ur phone with lesser model, nearly every time its a like for like exchange, your phone has a 2yr warranty, get it sent back to the same repair company, if its fixed this time happy days if it's not they repair company will replace it. The reason it has to go to the repair company is the shop can't tell if it's physically damaged or a genuine fault, store staff are not qualified engineers. Maybe try a software update yourself using nemisis and see does it sort it, ask over in mobile&pda form if ur not sure how to do it. @twowheelsonly ur likley to get ur self barred from the store and any recording will be inadmissable in court without permission of who you recording and also the owner of the business premises permission. Thats some of the worst advice i've seen given out yet.

Bull for want of a better word.
Firstly they have absolutely no grounds to bar you and would be very foolish to do so if you were behaving in a polite and professional manner. Your friend could be writing nursery rhymes for all they know!!
Secondly I never said anything about court and, regardless, that person is there as your witness. In the event of it going legal - would you prefer to be going to court with a witness or without a witness?? For a civil case in the event that you don't have an independent witness a recording is perfectly permissible in court by the way, in most cases thats regardless of whether it's an open recording or covert. Criminal law does differ but you have a lot more leeway with Civil cases.
He's been back to the shop with the same problem 4 times already and you want him to go back at least twice more??? It's game over time - his contract is with the shop and not with the supplier or repairman. It's up to them to sort it out expediently in a satisfactory manner and they haven't done that.

drunkmonkey

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Bull for want of a better word.
Firstly they have absolutely no grounds to bar you and would be very foolish to do so if you were behaving in a polite and professional manner. Your friend could be writing nursery rhymes for all they know!!
Secondly I never said anything about court and, regardless, that person is there as your witness. In the event of it going legal - would you prefer to be going to court with a witness or without a witness?? For a civil case in the event that you don't have an independent witness a recording is perfectly permissible in court by the way, in most cases thats regardless of whether it's an open recording or covert. Criminal law does differ but you have a lot more leeway with Civil cases.
He's been back to the shop with the same problem 4 times already and you want him to go back at least twice more??? It's game over time - his contract is with the shop and not with the supplier or repairman. It's up to them to sort it out expediently in a satisfactory manner and they haven't done that.

The witness with his recording would be inadmissable unless you got permission. The store would be well within their rights to ask you to leave the premises if they did not consent with what you were doing on their premises.
Your missing my point on the engineer, they need to establish if the phone was physically damaged by the customer before any replacement will be offered.
diamondtooth has went to the shop 4 times I agree but on his 3rd visit he should have sent the phone off again and collected the phone on the 4th visit.
If he wants to go the legal route which I wouldn't advise he should take it to the small claims court but again you will need a qualified engineers report to back up any claim.
The easy thing to do is let it back for repair again, I know it's a pain but it's the easiest way to get the problem resolved.
No phone store would tolerate the bully tatics your advising let alone try and push for a replacement phone for the customer from the repair company. Unless your a qualified legal professional I'd stick to the day job.

Elessar

It's up to you what you want to do OP.

You can cut out the middleman and go straight to fonemenders or Sigma FoneFix and get the phone repaired under warranty (again, but it would be quicker).

Or you can pursue O2. Their policy is meaningless in the face of the law. 3 repairs before a replacement is the policy of all phone companies but you don't have to accept it if the same fault is recurring. The first repair must be permanent. It clearly isn't in your case, so you have grounds to take this further.

If you wish to do so, speak to the manager (not a salesperson, they are only doing what they are told) and quote the Sale Of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, and mention that the phone is not fit for purpose or of merchantable quality. Tell him/her that you have already had it repaired and the repair should be permanent, which it wasn't. Politely seek a refund or replacement.

If he still refuses, write a registered letter to him in the store (not O2 itself) explaining the above again and mention you are willing to take it to the Small Claims Court. Register it because you will need proof that you sent it.

If there is still no resolution after say, 2 weeks, go online and open a case in the SCC. It costs €15 and the registrar will attempt to find a resolution on your behalf. 90% of claims are settled out of court. From what you have written, I'd say you have a very good chance of winning regardless.

You could also post on the official O2 forums (forums.o2online.ie) and one of the moderators might help you with your case, particularly if you are a long standing customer.

Either way, good luck.

Sully

Also, bring the phone to a Nokia Repair Center who will fix it under warranty. Usually same day repair depending on the problem. Much quicker then getting o2 to send it away anyway.

drunkmonkey

Elessar wrote: »

It's up to you what you want to do OP.

You can cut out the middleman and go straight to fonemenders or Sigma FoneFix and get the phone repaired under warranty (again, but it would be quicker).

Or you can pursue O2. Their policy is meaningless in the face of the law. 3 repairs before a replacement is the policy of all phone companies but you don't have to accept it if the same fault is recurring. The first repair must be permanent. It clearly isn't in your case, so you have grounds to take this further.

Just on sending it to the repair company yourself, seen as it has gone to 1 repair company already make sure it goes to the same one again, sending a phone to a different phone repair company delays the process as each company only counts the amounts of time it has come to them. In theory your phone could go to fonemenders twice and fonefix twice but a replacement will not be issed until it has went to the same company 3 times, madness I know but that's how it works.

OP if you can call the store and ask which repair company they used and then contact them yourself and ask will they exchange it if you send it to them directly.

MunsterCycling

Let it just be stated that O2 policy of "3 repairs before replacement" is a direct violation of your statutory rights, no if buts or ands.

MC

twowheelsonly

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The witness with his recording would be inadmissable unless you got permission. The store would be well within their rights to ask you to leave the premises if they did not consent with what you were doing on their premises.
Your missing my point on the engineer, they need to establish if the phone was physically damaged by the customer before any replacement will be offered.
diamondtooth has went to the shop 4 times I agree but on his 3rd visit he should have sent the phone off again and collected the phone on the 4th visit.
If he wants to go the legal route which I wouldn't advise he should take it to the small claims court but again you will need a qualified engineers report to back up any claim.
The easy thing to do is let it back for repair again, I know it's a pain but it's the easiest way to get the problem resolved.
No phone store would tolerate the bully tatics your advising let alone try and push for a replacement phone for the customer from the repair company. Unless your a qualified legal professional I'd stick to the day job.

A recording from a witness is would probably be inadmissable yes, notes taken by an independent witness, no. A recording made by yourself in the absence of a witness would be admissable.
What you are doing on their premises is conducting business with them (attempting to at least!!) - as I said they would be very foolish to try to kick you out.
The phone has been back already - it shouldn't take 3 trips back to establish if the customer damaged it - the first time should establish that. An engineers report should already be in place from that repair attempt which he is entitled to a copy of.
It's not really 'bullying' if all your doing is trying to avail of your rights and bringing a witness with you. What they are doing on the other hand is a form of bullying and disregarding your statutory rights. It's not up to them to push for a phone from the repair company either. It's up to themselves or O2 directly to replace it. They're the agent with whom you have the contract.

What you should actually do in this situation - On the first occasion that the phone (or any item) is being sent for repair you should give the shop a letter and retain a copy stating that you will not accept a second or subsequent repair should the same problem be present or consequently arise within the warranty period. It's perfectly legal and actually the proper procedure for dealing with a problem of this nature but people generally don't know that. (Obviously this refers to a fault with the merchandise rather than damage caused by the consumer.)

And I'll stick with the day job

TouchingVirus

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Let it just be stated that O2 policy of "3 repairs before replacement" is a direct violation of your statutory rights, no if buts or ands.

MC

If it's three repairs of three different problems then it isn't, though by the time the second problem came around I'd be questioning whether the goods were of merchantable quality

drunkmonkey

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Let it just be stated that O2 policy of "3 repairs before replacement" is a direct violation of your statutory rights, no if buts or ands.

MC

I don't want to be defending them as I think there one of the most underhanded compnays out there but that policy goes accross all the networks, meteor, o2, Voda, 3.

If it's a direct violation of your statutory rights why hasn't the proceess being outlawed. You'd think with 4million + phone users in the country the consumer agencys would wade in and end the nonsense once and for all.

Ghandee

I heard a long and detailed discussion on Gerry Ryans morning show about this.

Apparently, when you buy electronic/electrical goods from ANY business, if the proiduct develops a fault up to 6 months after purchase you are LEGALLY entitled to an exchange, not refurbished, and dont have to settle for the product being sent away to be repaired.

A retailer in Dublin actually rang Gerry Ryan to give out, that he would now be inundated with disgruntled customers turning up to his shop with faulty laptops!

I'm unsure if it was 6 months, before all the feedback starts! It was certainly a very reasonable time frame though!

Call in to o2 and mention the Gerry Ryan discussion, it may "persuade" them to change their minds!

snappieT

Gucky wrote: »

if the proiduct develops a fault up to 6 months after purchase you are LEGALLY entitled to an exchange, not refurbished, and dont have to settle for the product being sent away to be repaired.

Absolute BS. Refund, repair or replace is all that's required. The law doesn't specify any one which has to be done, nor does it specify timeframes in which a particular one should be done. They have to give you one of those 3. If they can't repair, and they don't have a replacement, you are entitled to a refund.

All that is said is that a repair should be permanent. Since the same problem re-developed, it is fair to say that o2 "couldn't repair" the phone, therefore that option is crossed out, and replacement or refund are o2's other options.

Credit notes can be accepted by the customer if they're willing to accept them, but the customer is not required to accept them. In some cases, accepting a credit note is a good idea (the retailer has a replacement, but is willing to let you select a different item from their range), other times it's bad (the retailer doesn't have the means to repair or replace, and is trying to avoid giving a full refund by instead providing a credit note).

MunsterCycling

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't want to be defending them as I think there one of the most underhanded compnays out there but that policy goes accross all the networks, meteor, o2, Voda, 3.

If it's a direct violation of your statutory rights why hasn't the proceess being outlawed. You'd think with 4million + phone users in the country the consumer agencys would wade in and end the nonsense once and for all.

Because we don't have any worthwhile consumer protection agency in this country.

eth0_

Gucky wrote: »

I heard a long and detailed discussion on Gerry Ryans morning show about this.

Apparently, when you buy electronic/electrical goods from ANY business, if the proiduct develops a fault up to 6 months after purchase you are LEGALLY entitled to an exchange, not refurbished, and dont have to settle for the product being sent away to be repaired.

Totally false information.

maglite

OP sned a registered letter to the store manager and copy o2 main office(A CEO or such if you want) Tell them you are giving them 14 days to replace or refund or you will go and seek protection of the courts.

Small claims court is about €8, you pop in explain your situation, he writes to O" and asks if they want to cop on or send down a barrister($$$$) for a day in court. They pay you or get a baliff knocking at their door. You get money and a sence of achievement.

krudler

Apparently, when you buy electronic/electrical goods from ANY business, if the proiduct develops a fault up to 6 months after purchase you are LEGALLY entitled to an exchange, not refurbished, and dont have to settle for the product being sent away to be repaired.

Its stupid crap like this that makes working in any retail job infinitely harder dealing with people who "know their rights" the amount of people I've had to explain their actual rights to over the past 10 years or so of working with the public is ludicrous

Nonoperational

Just bring it to fonemenders. It will not invalidate your warranty and they'll either fix it or replace it.

diamondtooth

Thanks for all the replies! This is one of my first threads on here and its great to get so much feedback!
Well I've decided what I am going to do.

I will write to O2 and explain the whole situation. They need to sort this out because otherwise I am straight off to the small claims court. They have a lot to sort out if they want me to stay on the O2 network aswell.

I definately will not bring my phone anywhere to be fixed. In fact I am doing nothing more with my phone to try and get this sorted. I've been to the shop already, spoke to the manager, spoke to customer service, had the phone sent away for repair already. And it is still faulty. O2 can sort this out now. As the law says a repair should be permanent.

Anyway I will let you know how I get on. But one more question. How could O2 be getting away with this 3 repairs before a replacement for so long if it is against the law

Elessar

Because most people are ignorant of the law, and those who aren't don't care enough.

Actually, it's not against the law per se, you have a choice of whether to accept the 3 repairs or not (which you are not, good man). Most people accept it because they know no better.

tatli_lokma

I'm in the same position with Meteor (posted the info on an earlier thread). I have since been back to the store and the manager, who knew i was coming was gone for the evening. Refused to speak to me on the phone and the staff were blatantly rude. i rang their customer care and was told there was no one the issue could be escalated to.

Since dealing with the store is of no use, I am now in the process of putting a formal complaint in writing, giving them 14 days to resolve. if not its small claims. TBH I really don't have the energy or time for this, but I am a stubborn mule and won't let them get away with this BS!

Also, I am the one who paid for the phone, I am the customer, but because the phone was bought for my sis and was used with her number they keep trying to tell me they can only speak to my sister! As the consumer the contract is with me, not my sister, but this appears to be an alien prospect to them!

Finally, they keep saying that I have no contract with them, they are just an agent, that my contract is with Samsung, and they refuse to move from store policy, despite the fact they have no legal grounding to enforce such a policy - they are doing my nut in at this stage!:mad:

drunkmonkey

diamondtooth wrote: »

As the law says a repair should be permanent.

Anyway I will let you know how I get on.

Who's to say you didn't damage the phone when you got it back?, before you go the legal route you shoud really get the phone looked at again, you'll save yourself a headace, time and money.

As for how you'll get on, ask anyone working in retail in the phone business, the threat of legal action is an everyday occurance. Mostly caued by people reading bull**** on the interent who then think they can swan into a store and make unresonable demands.

Even if after all your messing you probably won't end up with a new nokia (I bet it will be refurbished) it will at some part of it's life probably end up going for repair again. Are you going to take the legal route ever time you have a problem with your phone from here on in just because some people advised you on the interent?

A little tip from someone who knows, take the easy route, maybe even make some friends in your local nokia repair center. You will at some point in the future end up there again. It's perfectly normal.

diamondtooth

How is it an unreasonable demand to ask for a phone that actually works! To think that I am making unreasonable demands is crazy.

I am not putting myself to any further expense of repairing a phone which has been sent for repair already and is still not working.

Their behaviour is simply unacceptable. I am not going to drop this. Thanks for the advice though.

drunkmonkey

diamondtooth wrote: »

How is it an unreasonable demand to ask for a phone that actually works! To think that I am making unreasonable demands is crazy.

I am not putting myself to any further expense of repairing a phone which has been sent for repair already and is still not working.

Their behaviour is simply unacceptable. I am not going to drop this. Thanks for the advice though.

Look i'm just advising you based on years of experience in the phone business, What's happened you is an everyday occurance, I know it's a pain in the butt, the repair company has let you down and the store down by not fixing the problem with your phone. It's made the store look bad and pissed you off to such an extent you won't do business in that store again.
I deal with this every day, do everyone a favour including yourself and let the phone off for repair to the origianl repair company yourself, if it dosn't come back fixed correcty this time send it straight back and call them about an exchange. It's so much easier to do than what you proposing at the moment based on bad advice.

maglite

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A little tip from someone who knows, take the easy route,

So give up and let them get away with illegal practice.


Sure people can threaten legal action all day long but alot of people actually follow through. I have brought meteor through the small claims court and won.

Once you initiate the small claims procedure the company can, admit they are in the wrong, ignore the court, or contest. The first 2 result in a win for you the latter will cost the company €100's as they have to pay for at least a solicitor if not a barrister to attend a court room with a real possibility of loosing. Its not worth their hassle and often just cave in because they know they are in the wrong.


Your sir appear to have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo where phone companies are acting illegally fronting it with store policy. Suggesting that someone spend their own money to cover up anothers mistake is "silly"

drunkmonkey

maglite wrote: »

give up and let them get away with illegal practice.

It's not illegal, I don't know where you got that idea.

Think of it as a car, a brand new shiny golf, working perfect for 3 mts, then the back window gets stuck, do you have the right to walk into a volkswagen garage and demand a new car or do you let the mechanic fix it at the garages expensive and not yours as it's under warranty.

maglite

Ok lets use that analogy,

The main menu button on a phone could be likened to the accelerator. Ya you can turn on the shiny new golf but you can go anywhere. You manage to get a recovery truck bring it back to the garage and they send it to Germany for investigation. Meanwhile they give you an old battered trike( does the same job transports you around but is missing vital functionality)

The car comes back but on the drive home the the accelerator stops, So you again pay to have it brought back to the garage, they inform you that now you will have to send your car back to Germany another 2 attempts before they will refund you your €49,000 and you will be on your trike for the next 6 weeks. If not more.

If you are the sort of person who gives over 40K ~ and gets an obviously poorly assembled car and does nothing then more fool you. Without the main menu button on a phone most of its functionality is rubbished.

maglite

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A little tip from someone who knows, take the easy route,

So give up and let them get away with illegal practice.


Sure people can threaten legal action all day long but alot of people actually follow through. I have brought meteor through the small claims court and won.

Once you initiate the small claims procedure the company can, admit they are in the wrong, ignore the court, or contest. The first 2 result in a win for you the latter will cost the company €100's as they have to pay for at least a solicitor if not a barrister to attend a court room with a real possibility of loosing. Its not worth their hassle and often just cave in because they know they are in the wrong.


Your sir appear to have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo where phone companies are acting illegally fronting it with store policy. Suggesting that someone spend their own money to cover up anothers mistake is "silly"