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What chance of a General Election in 2010 ?
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02-01-2010 11:42am#1Any realistic chance of a General Election in 2010 ? What kind of things are on the agenda / horizon that might trigger one ? Any by-elections that would have to be held that might swing the majority against the Govt in the Dail.
Anyone got any thoughts or are we facing into another 12 months of Cowen in charge?0
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mikedublin wrote: »Any realistic chance of a General Election in 2010 ? What kind of things are on the agenda / horizon that might trigger one ? Any by-elections that would have to be held that might swing the majority against the Govt in the Dail.
Anyone got any thoughts or are we facing into another 12 months of Cowen in charge?
No chance of a general election. I have been asking friends and colleagues about this. Everyone was very annoyed with the state of the economy and of course people being people will look for somebody to blame. And its true Berties cabinet did a very bad job of managing our boom. But the overiding consensus I get from talking to people is that their confidence in the government has been reinvigorated since they tackled public sector spending and put the unions in thier place. There will be no support for any government that comes down on the side of the militant union leaders. That is why FF will win the next election because any government with labour as part of it would cow down to Begg, O'Connor et al and the country would be brought to its knees. Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen and their advisers have done an oustanding job of steering us out of this crises and that has been recognised by government and financial institutions throughout the world who are highly impressed by the measures taken.0 -
Not soon enough.
I don't know who Bugnug has been talking to that has "reinvigorated confidence" in the current shower of unwilling incompetents, but they're certainly not the same people I talk to.0 -
Could a by-election in Lenihan's consituency cause a GE if he has to stand down?0
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12 months ago I feared that this mentality of 'Ah sure who's better than FF' would take over and we'd wriggle back to our knees and hail our FF saviours once again. Its sickening. They've destroyed our nation and poisoned the fabric of society with their elitist pandering to their own 'kind'.
And we'll vote them back in too. Shame.0 -
No chance of a general election. I have been asking friends and colleagues about this. Everyone was very annoyed with the state of the economy and of course people being people will look for somebody to blame. And its true Berties cabinet did a very bad job of managing our boom. But the overiding consensus I get from talking to people is that their confidence in the government has been reinvigorated since they tackled public sector spending and put the unions in thier place. There will be no support for any government that comes down on the side of the militant union leaders. That is why FF will win the next election because any government with labour as part of it would cow down to Begg, O'Connor et al and the country would be brought to its knees. Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen and their advisers have done an oustanding job of steering us out of this crises and that has been recognised by government and financial institutions throughout the world who are highly impressed by the measures taken.
I think you need to talk to more people. Plus we are nowhere near out of this crisis, so dont know where you get the idea we are out of it.
Can you please point to these insitutions that are "highly impressed"???0 -
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Taxipete29 wrote: »I think you need to talk to more people. Plus we are nowhere near out of this crisis, so dont know where you get the idea we are out of it.
Can you please point to these insitutions that are "highly impressed"???
Agreed. Those impressed by the current activity are far outweighed by the 450,000 people on the Live register, those who are likely to leave Ireland in the coming months, young graduates who shall have their skills tossed on the scrap heap, the vast majority of the public sector, social welfare recipiants.and all those unionised workers in the private sector.
Economically astute people will agree that savings were required, and Brian Lenihan delivered on that in December. However, if Cowen is allowed a greater role in economic management, then it is likely that work will be squandered. If the banks need further recapitalisation, then it is likely that the state coffers may be depleated further to the tune of what was saved.
Finally, nobody is likely to forgive FF in the short term. The state has been pilfering Peter to pay Paul. The banks have been granted a blank cheque, and an unqualified bailout. NAMA is based on the successful Swedish model, in spite of the fact that our respective economies are totally different. While the banks have been given this, the state took away the state sponsored Christmas bonus, which was mean and in the name of optics. I firmly believe that had social welfare had been cut in a graduated fashion and in greater proportion, while maintaining the Christmas bonus, it would have been more acceptable.
The defecit potentially remains between 22-26 Billion. Our banks are up to their necks, while the state continues to prop up a dead bank, and seem intent on bringing it back to working order. "Tough measures" will not be a platform for Cowen to return and seek to belittle Enda Kenny. I voted for this Government, and I accept that it is my responsibility for doing so. However, with the future of the Finance Department unclear, and the green shoots still some time away, I dont believe FF will be in any position to win the next general election.
"The Financial Institutions" such as the OECD and the European Commission have been selectively quoted. They seem to suggest that what the government are doing is the framework as part of can be done, without endorsing it. However, when the IMF suggested that FF had overheated the economy, the party rubbished that and told us that the IMF hadoften "got things wrong". Equally, little was made of the Commission's request to know why Anglo Irish Bank was being kept alive. Thus contrary to governmental spin, the necessity to keep Anglo Irish alinve isnt necessairly shared with the "financial institutions".
i would totally disagree with Cowen and his advisers as doing an excellent job. Cowen has been in hiding. He has not once addressed the nation, and was responsible for the 12 Days tripe. He is a tribalist, who was punished at the last elections by losing another 80 Councellors, and one MEP.0 -
1 party state, 1 party state!!!!0
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No chance of a general election. I have been asking friends and colleagues about this. Everyone was very annoyed with the state of the economy and of course people being people will look for somebody to blame. And its true Berties cabinet did a very bad job of managing our boom. But the overiding consensus I get from talking to people is that their confidence in the government has been reinvigorated since they tackled public sector spending and put the unions in thier place. There will be no support for any government that comes down on the side of the militant union leaders. That is why FF will win the next election because any government with labour as part of it would cow down to Begg, O'Connor et al and the country would be brought to its knees. Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen and their advisers have done an oustanding job of steering us out of this crises and that has been recognised by government and financial institutions throughout the world who are highly impressed by the measures taken.
cowen was willing to fold before the unions until his back bench revolted , lennehan was the one who stepped up to the plate on this one0 -
No chance of a general election. I have been asking friends and colleagues about this. Everyone was very annoyed with the state of the economy and of course people being people will look for somebody to blame. And its true Berties cabinet did a very bad job of managing our boom. But the overiding consensus I get from talking to people is that their confidence in the government has been reinvigorated since they tackled public sector spending and put the unions in thier place. There will be no support for any government that comes down on the side of the militant union leaders. That is why FF will win the next election because any government with labour as part of it would cow down to Begg, O'Connor et al and the country would be brought to its knees. Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen and their advisers have done an oustanding job of steering us out of this crises and that has been recognised by government and financial institutions throughout the world who are highly impressed by the measures taken.
Support for FF may have risen a bit but win the next election? Not a chance. FF were at a historic low over 2009 they would require a massive upwelling of support to win the next election and that's highly unlikely given economic conditions.0 -
Crikey Bugnug...i'm almost too speechless to know where to begin..however i believe that you are deluded to say the least..FF to win the next election? not a chance..don't know who you've been speaking to but i ve had the opposite reaction from friends and colleagues-that is for the most part absolute disgust with this FF led govt. You seem to have forgotten who led us into this mess and who have now saddled us with an almost unimaginable debt just to ensure the survival of their banker bedfellows.I for one am not in the slightest bit interested in what the 'financial institutions throughout the world' have to say as it was their greed and corruption that brought us to where we are today.Here's hoping the FF/soon to be extinct Green goons get whats coming to them when we again go to the polls.No chance of a general election. I have been asking friends and colleagues about this. Everyone was very annoyed with the state of the economy and of course people being people will look for somebody to blame. And its true Berties cabinet did a very bad job of managing our boom. But the overiding consensus I get from talking to people is that their confidence in the government has been reinvigorated since they tackled public sector spending and put the unions in thier place. There will be no support for any government that comes down on the side of the militant union leaders. That is why FF will win the next election because any government with labour as part of it would cow down to Begg, O'Connor et al and the country would be brought to its knees. Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen and their advisers have done an oustanding job of steering us out of this crises and that has been recognised by government and financial institutions throughout the world who are highly impressed by the measures taken.0 -
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Support for FF may have risen a bit but win the next election? Not a chance. FF were at a historic low over 2009 they would require a massive upwelling of support to win the next election and that's highly unlikely given economic conditions.
Long-term FF member and supporter and quite honestly never expected the government to survive this year, but survive they have . . they have successfully negotiated one of the most difficult economic periods globally, have successfully delivered the Lisbon referendum and three hairshirt budgets in 14 months . . Brian Lenihans economic policies have pulled Ireland inc. back from the brink of bankruptcy and from here the only way is up . . Expect steady growth in support during 2010 then a dramatic swing towards FF if and when a GE is called. .0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Long-term FF member and supporter and quite honestly never expected the government to survive this year, but survive they have . . they have successfully negotiated one of the most difficult economic periods globally, have successfully delivered the Lisbon referendum and three hairshirt budgets in 14 months . . Brian Lenihans economic policies have pulled Ireland inc. back from the brink of bankruptcy and from here the only way is up . . Expect steady growth in support during 2010 then a dramatic swing towards FF if and when a GE is called. .
See I think the only reason anyone likes them is Brian Lenihan. And he might not be able to continue as a politician0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Long-term FF member and supporter and quite honestly never expected the government to survive this year, but survive they have . . they have successfully negotiated one of the most difficult economic periods globally, have successfully delivered the Lisbon referendum and three hairshirt budgets in 14 months . . Brian Lenihans economic policies have pulled Ireland inc. back from the brink of bankruptcy and from here the only way is up . . Expect steady growth in support during 2010 then a dramatic swing towards FF if and when a GE is called. .
Bollocks. The budgets were passed as backbenchers are scared stiff of losing their seats. Survival is not nearly as difficult as one lets on. If FF were in with Labour or the PDs (1989-1992 1997-2002), and dependent on their support, then it may have been far too close for comfort. The Greens know they are screwed, and each independent got a hospital each and a further goody bag, and FFs didnt want an election. An election is not in FF's interests. Thus survival is no achievement.
Lisbon was a victory for civic societies like Ireland For Europe, We Belong etc. Cowen and Lenihan's rhetoric or policies didnt get lisbon ratified. In fact, had FF played the most prominant role, then it may well have been lost.
You have based you assertion of a steady growth in support on nothing. Economic growth will not occur until we see a further attempt to get the public finances in order, a serious redress in unemployment, the prevention of young people leaving Ireland in a brain drain, an increase in compettiveness (which FF have done nothing about), and a proper solution to our banking crisis.
There is little or no chance of FF gaining support in the coming months0 -
Think this Gov. will run close to a full term . An election this year is not in the Green Parties interest as they face extinction at an election . I dont think FF will return to Gov. after the next election but nor would I rule it out as i'm old enough to know that when it comes to FF there are a lot of stupid people in this country .0
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hallelujajordan wrote: »Long-term FF member and supporter and quite honestly never expected the government to survive this year, but survive they have . . they have successfully negotiated one of the most difficult economic periods globally, have successfully delivered the Lisbon referendum and three hairshirt budgets in 14 months . . Brian Lenihans economic policies have pulled Ireland inc. back from the brink of bankruptcy and from here the only way is up . . Expect steady growth in support during 2010 then a dramatic swing towards FF if and when a GE is called. .
Have to agree with Hetfield. FF deliberatly took a step back with Lisbon 2. They didnt campaign near as much as they did for the first one.
We are still on the brink of bankruptcy. We still have a huge deficit. We have no idea what effect NAMA will have when it gets goibng fully. If interest rates go up later in the year like they are expected to do this country will be in even more crap than we are now.
FF have relied too long on giveaway budgets to garner support close to elections. They wont have that card next time. Expect a huge backlash and a massive loss of seats never previously seen in FF.
Tell me this, does the coolade actually taste good???0 -
Lisbon was a victory for civic societies like Ireland For Europe, We Belong etc. Cowen and Lenihan's rhetoric or policies didnt get lisbon ratified. In fact, had FF played the most prominant role, then it may well have been lost.
I'll give you that one, but many of the people campaigning on behlf of these civic groups were political party members like myself keen not to see politics get in the way. I did 3 canvasses with FF for Lisbon 2, all city/shopping centre type ones, I didn't once knock on a door 2nd time round, the risk of it doing more harm than good was too high.0 -
Could a by-election in Lenihan's consituency cause a GE if he has to stand down?
If Lenihan was to resign, there is no Consitutional Need for a by-election anyway. Look how long Seamus brennans Seat and Tony greggory's seat lay vacent. Also Pat the cope gallaghers seat has been vacent since June.0 -
Taxipete29 wrote: »Have to agree with Hetfield. FF deliberatly took a step back with Lisbon 2. They didnt campaign near as much as they did for the first one.
We are still on the brink of bankruptcy. We still have a huge deficit. We have no idea what effect NAMA will have when it gets goibng fully. If interest rates go up later in the year like they are expected to do this country will be in even more crap than we are now.
FF have relied too long on giveaway budgets to garner support close to elections. They wont have that card next time. Expect a huge backlash and a massive loss of seats never previously seen in FF.
Tell me this, does the coolade actually taste good???
Agree that they took a step back but surely given the result that in itself was a strategically successful move? Am not suggesting that FF have had a great year and have not lost support but the difference between where we are now and where we were last April is significant. For that I give Cowen credit.
Look, what all of the anti-FF brigade on here continue to ignore is that there is a bigger global economic situation going on that has affected almost every Western economy. There are those that believe we are more severely affected than others but I have friends and relations in the US and in the UK who would argue others. There are significant signals that the global economy is recovering and we will see the effect of that.
What has impressed me most about our current government is that they have tackled problems proactively and been willing to make tough decisions. That is already recognised outside of Ireland and it will be recognised here in time for the next GE . .
And yes, the Kool-Aid tastes great !0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Look, what all of the anti-FF brigade on here continue to ignore is that there is a bigger global economic situation going on that has affected almost every Western economy.
I've never ignored that!hallelujajordan wrote: »There are those that believe we are more severely affected than others
I'd be one of those. Relying completely on selling ridiculously highly-priced houses and retail parks (most which have no proper infrastructure with dire traffic problems and no schools or public transport) was crazy, and the fact that all of us have to bail out the greedy few is sickening.hallelujajordan wrote: »There are significant signals that the global economy is recovering and we will see the effect of that.
Even when things pick up a little, I fail to see how anyone would invest in a country where incompetence by regulators is rewarded with millions in pensions, and where there is zero "punishment" for the crimes.
You could argue that this will eventually arise, but from Bertie "giving people jobs because they were his friends" (and that's a quote from his own mouth) and the lack of appetite from FF (or even, unfortunately, from the less-tainted opposition) for chasing the scum for every penny they owe us, I can't see it being sufficient to undo the damage to Ireland's credibility.
In the U.S. at least some of the scum were jailed.hallelujajordan wrote: »What has impressed me most about our current government is that they have tackled problems proactively and been willing to make tough decisions. That is already recognised outside of Ireland and it will be recognised here in time for the next GE . .
Ah yes, the all-encompassing "the tough decisions" from the party that complained about John O'Donoghue being "hounded" and lets Ahern off to flog his book using the country's resources.
Forget the fact that they're probably not the right decisions, and that most of them are far too late; FF are making "tough decisions", so it's all OK, then!
I definitely won't forget before the next GE, and if necessary I'll pay for posters and flyers to remind people (assuming, that is, I have any money left).0 -
Could a by-election in Lenihan's consituency cause a GE if he has to stand down?
FF would attempt to delay it and the Donegal SW by-election as long as they possibly could, and even the relatively likely Joe Higgins / Pearse Doherty victories would only put the coalition in to serious danger zone rather than death I'd suspect.
Its likely most of the unwhipped FF rebels would still vote for the govt. rather than against in a confidence motion. Turkeys don't vote for christmas, and most of them would suffer similarly at a GE.0 -
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hallelujajordan wrote: »Agree that they took a step back but surely given the result that in itself was a strategically successful move? Am not suggesting that FF have had a great year and have not lost support but the difference between where we are now and where we were last April is significant. For that I give Cowen credit.
Look, what all of the anti-FF brigade on here continue to ignore is that there is a bigger global economic situation going on that has affected almost every Western economy. There are those that believe we are more severely affected than others but I have friends and relations in the US and in the UK who would argue others. There are significant signals that the global economy is recovering and we will see the effect of that.
What has impressed me most about our current government is that they have tackled problems proactively and been willing to make tough decisions. That is already recognised outside of Ireland and it will be recognised here in time for the next GE . .
And yes, the Kool-Aid tastes great !
The Global economy may well recover, but a hike in interest rates will severly hamper our chances of coming out of recession as quickly as other nations. It is more likely a rise in interest rates will further dampen consumer spending and result in more job loses in the retail and service industries. While FF can do little about the interest rates, they have done little and seem to have no plan to tackle the problem of nearly half a million unemployed.
Can you please explain to me one major issue which FF have tackled pro-actively???
Tough decisions?? give me a break. It was not a tough decision to reduce unemployment benefits and to reduce the pay of public sector workers. Taking a tough decision would be letting Anglo go to the wall instead of pouring money into a bottomless pit. Nationalising AIB and BOI would be a tough decision and one which may yet have to be made.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »Even when things pick up a little, I fail to see how anyone would invest in a country where incompetence by regulators is rewarded with millions in pensions, and where there is zero "punishment" for the crimes.
We don't need them to 'invest' in Ireland inc. . we will benefit simply from the changed economic circumstances. Our trading partners in Europe are coming out of recession and as their economies recover so too will our exports and there will be a positive uplift in the Irish economy.Liam Byrne wrote:
In the U.S. at least some of the scum were jailed.
Those who broke laws were jailed. Those who behaved in a less than ethical manner or simply did not do a good job were not. Money drives politics to a far greater extent in the US than it does in Ireland and I would hate to start using the US political system as our moral barometer.Liam Byrne wrote:Ah yes, the all-encompassing "the tough decisions" from the party that complained about John O'Donoghue being "hounded" and lets Ahern off to flog his book using the country's resources.
JOD was 'hounded' out of the CC position. I won't defend his pattern of expenses but to target one man when the entire system (cross-parties) is corrupt was unfair.
Bertie Aherne is an elected official, not an employee of FF and is free to do what he wants with his time. Like all elected politicians he will answer to the electorate (his real employer) at the next GE.Liam Byrne wrote:Forget the fact that they're probably not the right decisions, and that most of them are far too late; FF are making "tough decisions", so it's all OK, then!
You (and others) may not agree with the decisions that they have made and that is your prerogative, but they did make tough proactive decisions, at times setting a trend that was followed by our European partners (the initial bank guarantees).Taxipete29 wrote:The Global economy may well recover, but a hike in interest rates will severly hamper our chances of coming out of recession as quickly as other nations. It is more likely a rise in interest rates will further dampen consumer spending and result in more job loses in the retail and service industries. While FF can do little about the interest rates, they have done little and seem to have no plan to tackle the problem of nearly half a million unemployed.
We are already out of recession
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1217/breaking35.htm
and we exited recession earlier than our biggest trading partner (Britain)
Unemployment in Ireland stabilised and has not grown since last August. I would argue that the first step in tackling unemployment is stabilising the economy which is where the governments efforts have been throughout 2009.Taxipete29 wrote:Tough decisions?? give me a break. It was not a tough decision to reduce unemployment benefits and to reduce the pay of public sector workers.
Of course it is tough for a government that has to make wildly unpopular decisions that their elected TD's are going to get hammered for back in their home constituencies. Of course it is tough to take on the Unions and reduce the pay of the entire public service. You may not agree with the decisions and that is a different argument but there is no doubt that they have made tough decisions.Taxipete29 wrote:Taking a tough decision would be letting Anglo go to the wall instead of pouring money into a bottomless pit. Nationalising AIB and BOI would be a tough decision and one which may yet have to be made.
So nationalising AIB/BOI would be a tough decision but nationalising Anglo was not ? I think you are confusing right/wrong decisions with tough decisions.0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »We don't need them to 'invest' in Ireland inc. . we will benefit simply from the changed economic circumstances. Our trading partners in Europe are coming out of recession and as their economies recover so too will our exports and there will be a positive uplift in the Irish economy.
Those who broke laws were jailed. Those who behaved in a less than ethical manner or simply did not do a good job were not. Money drives politics to a far greater extent in the US than it does in Ireland and I would hate to start using the US political system as our moral barometer.
JOD was 'hounded' out of the CC position. I won't defend his pattern of expenses but to target one man when the entire system (cross-parties) is corrupt was unfair.
Bertie Aherne is an elected official, not an employee of FF and is free to do what he wants with his time. Like all elected politicians he will answer to the electorate (his real employer) at the next GE.
You (and others) may not agree with the decisions that they have made and that is your prerogative, but they did make tough proactive decisions, at times setting a trend that was followed by our European partners (the initial bank guarantees).
We are already out of recession
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1217/breaking35.htm
and we exited recession earlier than our biggest trading partner (Britain)
Unemployment in Ireland stabilised and has not grown since last August. I would argue that the first step in tackling unemployment is stabilising the economy which is where the governments efforts have been throughout 2009.
Of course it is tough for a government that has to make wildly unpopular decisions that their elected TD's are going to get hammered for back in their home constituencies. Of course it is tough to take on the Unions and reduce the pay of the entire public service. You may not agree with the decisions and that is a different argument but there is no doubt that they have made tough decisions.
So nationalising AIB/BOI would be a tough decision but nationalising Anglo was not ? I think you are confusing right/wrong decisions with tough decisions.
Read the article you quoted again. It says technically out of recession and the analysts urged caution in saying it was over. This article doesnt support your argument.
For a FF man your poorly informed. Bertie aint running again0 -
Taxipete29 wrote: »Read the article you quoted again. It says technically out of recession and the analysts urged caution in saying it was over. This article doesnt support your argument.
For a FF man your poorly informed. Bertie aint running again
- I did read the article and I do understand the situation economically. I posted it to make the point that technically we are already out of recession (given your comments that interest rate increases may 'hamper our chances of coming out of recession as quickly as other nations') . .
- Not poorly informed re: Bertie btw and quite aware that he will not run in the next GE, merely using the example to make the point that our elected politicians answer to the electorate within their constituency, not to journalists, boardsters or even to their political parties. Bertie Aherne has been and will continue to be well regarded in his constituency and I am confident that they believe they are getting value for their money. I do expect that he will face an Irish electorate again at some point though.0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »- I did read the article and I do understand the situation economically. I posted it to make the point that technically we are already out of recession (given your comments that interest rate increases may 'hamper our chances of coming out of recession as quickly as other nations') . .
- Not poorly informed re: Bertie btw and quite aware that he will not run in the next GE, merely using the example to make the point that our elected politicians answer to the electorate within their constituency, not to journalists, boardsters or even to their political parties. Bertie Aherne has been and will continue to be well regarded in his constituency and I am confident that they believe they are getting value for their money. I do expect that he will face an Irish electorate again at some point though.
Well I will stop worrying if we are still " technically" out of recession in 6 - 12 months time. We are still pumping money into banks, we still have a huge deficit and all this before we even get to NAMA. Yes it really is " technically" time for the champagne corks to be popped :rolleyes:
The problem is your so blinded by loyalty to the party that you cant see the reality of the problems on the ground. We have no way of knowing the long term effects of Lenihans policies, which include the much anticipated and widely loathed NAMA. Come back to me in 10 years and tell me if FF saved the country.0 -
Taxipete29 wrote: »Well I will stop worrying if we are still " technically" out of recession in 6 - 12 months time. We are still pumping money into banks, we still have a huge deficit and all this before we even get to NAMA. Yes it really is " technically" time for the champagne corks to be popped :rolleyes:
The problem is your so blinded by loyalty to the party that you cant see the reality of the problems on the ground. We have no way of knowing the long term effects of Lenihans policies, which include the much anticipated and widely loathed NAMA. Come back to me in 10 years and tell me if FF saved the country.
Jesus wept . . . As usual on here any positive messages of support are exaggerated or taken completely out of context !
To be clear. . . I'm not suggesting that we pop the champagne corks and I'm not declaring that FF have 'saved' the country. My point is that the government have negotiated an extremely challenging year both economically and politically and we have come out the other end in a better condition than we entered.
I'm confident, and all of the indicators and commentators predict that we will stay out of recession and that the economy will grow (albeit very slowly) this year. As this happens, the numbers on the live register will reduce (slowly), the country will begin to recover and (in my view) FF will benefit with a positive swing in support and will do so in time for the next GE . .0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Jesus wept . . . As usual on here any positive messages of support are exaggerated or taken completely out of context !
To be clear. . . I'm not suggesting that we pop the champagne corks and I'm not declaring that FF have 'saved' the country. My point is that the government have negotiated an extremely challenging year both economically and politically and we have come out the other end in a better condition than we entered.
I'm confident, and all of the indicators and commentators predict that we will stay out of recession and that the economy will grow (albeit very slowly) this year. As this happens, the numbers on the live register will reduce (slowly), the country will begin to recover and (in my view) FF will benefit with a positive swing in support and will do so in time for the next GE . .
You have failed to answer my earlier question about what problems the GOvt have tackled proactively???0 -
Everybody who makes valid points on this subject should NEVER forget,
that a former Taoiseach while in Office, suggested that those people with a contrary view to his and the FF party, should go away and committ Suicide.
That was His view and that arrogance remains.
The people will deal with this in due course.
Out of recession my arse, watch the job losses in the first 2 months of '10.
It's going to be savage.0 -
Taxipete29 wrote: »You have failed to answer my earlier question about what problems the GOvt have tackled proactively???
Well I have, just not directly.
- Brought forward the 2008 budget to October in order to implement early and necessary fiscal changes
- First country in Europe to implement the bank guarantee's last year that was quickly followed by many other countries.
- Implementation of emergency budget in April 09 to address the changed circumstances since the October budget
- Set up and implementation of NAMA to address the Toxic debt across the country and to allow the banks to function more normally (not to bail out developers as is constantly misreported)
- Implementation of much needed public sector pay cuts despite massive objections from the trade unions. .
I'm not arguing that these were all the right measures at the right time, but they are examples of the government (particularly the Finance minister) working proactively to try to address a challenging economic environment.
I posted this on here before but its a good example of how this proactive approach is recognised abroad even if it is not at home. .
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/article6948046.ece0 -
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hallelujajordan wrote: »Those who broke laws were jailed. Those who behaved in a less than ethical manner or simply did not do a good job were not. Money drives politics to a far greater extent in the US than it does in Ireland and I would hate to start using the US political system as our moral barometer.
While I disagree with all aspects of wealth influencing politics (including that exchanged in brown envelopes) at least they do hit people hard when they go too far.
In Ireland we pretend that people won't go too far, and they go further.
I've said it before "giving people jobs because they're your friends" is nepotism, which is a form of corruption.
But in Ireland, this is par for the course, and even boasted about by former Taoisigh.hallelujajordan wrote: »JOD was 'hounded' out of the CC position. I won't defend his pattern of expenses but to target one man when the entire system (cross-parties) is corrupt was unfair.
There's allowing a bad system to exist (unvouched, OTT expenses) and there's milking that to the hilt.
Everyone's to blame for allowing it to exist, true; but not everyone milked it.
I will concede that FG's stance on this was unacceptable.
Anyways, since FF are so "proactive", when do you reckon the objectionable and OTT expenses will be vouched and accountable, and limited to match the capabilities of the country ?hallelujajordan wrote: »Bertie Aherne is an elected official, not an employee of FF and is free to do what he wants with his time. Like all elected politicians he will answer to the electorate (his real employer) at the next GE.
Oh how the mighty have fallen! Anyone remember the "Bertie's Team" bull**** campaign ? Now he's on his own!
If he's dossing around abusing our tax money (state car, etc) on trips to promote his personal commercial enterprise / work of fiction then his leader should tell him to cop himself on and STOP; the behaviour is not acceptable.hallelujajordan wrote: »You (and others) may not agree with the decisions that they have made and that is your prerogative, but they did make tough proactive decisions, at times setting a trend that was followed by our European partners (the initial bank guarantees).
"Proactive" ???? Do you know the meaning of the word ?
Proactive decisions are designed to avoid serious problems; they're designed to act on issues as soon as they're flagged. With FF, when these were flagged, the Financial Regulator was allowed to continue not doing his job, and FF told people that they were being pessimistic.
You can claim what you like from your party stance, but don't go off the scale by claiming FF are "proactive" - this isn't the humour forum.
And to top all that, FF are (at least) 2 years late actually acting on their "proactiveness".....I mightn't like NAMA, for obvious reasons, but even for NAMA-apologists to still not have it up and running two years and three budgets after the crisis is ridiculous!hallelujajordan wrote: »We are already out of recession and we exited recession earlier than our biggest trading partner (Britain)
I'd argue the validity of that, but I can't see you being objective, so I'll just ask you to answer me this; will Britain have a 60-year hangover along the lines of NAMA ?hallelujajordan wrote: »I would argue that the first step in tackling unemployment is stabilising the economy which is where the governments efforts have been throughout 2009.
Just a pity they didn't act "proactively" and try doing that back in 2005 / 2006, when even I raised an eyebrow at the craziness of 100% mortgages (and I'm no economist).
Of course, with McCreevy benefitting by getting more than that, he was unlikely to flag it as the problem that it was.hallelujajordan wrote: »Of course it is tough for a government that has to make wildly unpopular decisions that their elected TD's are going to get hammered for back in their home constituencies. Of course it is tough to take on the Unions and reduce the pay of the entire public service. You may not agree with the decisions and that is a different argument but there is no doubt that they have made tough decisions.
Not much argument there when you put it like that; but you're ignoring the fact that the incompetence that led us into this is still being rewarded. Whatever about the as-yet-unproven levels of actual corruption and criminality, having incompetent, under-investigation, blinkered and compromised people at the helm making key decisions is ridiculous, and having them still swanning around earning being paid ten times what most average people are paid is sickening.hallelujajordan wrote: »So nationalising AIB/BOI would be a tough decision but nationalising Anglo was not ? I think you are confusing right/wrong decisions with tough decisions.
Nationalising AIB & BOI would have provided a benefit to the country, and would probably have cost the same amount.
Doing anything with Anglo other than closing the (cell ?) door on them was throwing money into a shredder.0
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