Is it time to get rid of the position of President Of Ireland?

JonathanAnon

Just listening to Mary McAleese on the radio the other day in Conversations At The Aras with Joe Duffy. I have a lot of respect for the woman for her personal achievements (I mean didn she once beat David Trimble to the head position in Queens), but I have to say .... She does talk some arbitrary, sanctimonious nonsense as President. At the start of the program, she made this speech about how hard the year was, belief in the people of Ireland and all the usual crap... This from a woman who earns multiples of the average industrial wage for a position that effectively means nothing.

So I'm thinking, why dont we just get rid of the position of President, and not bother with the expense of a) an election in 2012 and b) paying some ex politician another fortune for the next 7 years and a ridiculous pension.

(plus it may mean that we wont have to look at that drumcondra crook in the future)

yoshytoshy

I'd rather a new president to be honest ,one that inspires all walks of society.

FlutterinBantam

Get rid of the office.

It has become all "Mom and Apple Pie stuff"

No disrespect to the current incumbent , doing her best,but........jaysus.

We can't afford it.

Overheal

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'd rather a new president to be honest ,one that inspires all walks of society.

Who in Ireland will do that exactly?

ejmaztec

Overheal wrote: »

Who in Ireland will do that exactly?

johnnyskeleton

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Get rid of the office.

It has become all "Mom and Apple Pie stuff"

No, the current president is the one making it so. Mary Robinson referred any bill which she thought was constitutionally unsound to the Supreme Court. Mary Mac has declined to do so on a number of constitutionally suspect bills, including NAMA.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

We can't afford it.

Realistically we can afford it. It's all the other unnecessary stuff e.g. quangos, over staffed civil service, NAMA, bank bailouts, some of the tax breaks and very generous social welfare payments that we can't afford.

But the president does perform a number of important functions. Maybe not the big public eye functions, and maybe this current president makes it seem like a bit of a fluffer office, but done well the president hold a very important office.

To say get rid of her is kind of like saying get rid of all school principals because they don't actually teach very many classes.

If you want to strip the dead wood out of politics, why not get rid of the seanad and reduce the numbers and remuneration of TDs?

lostexpectation

on the late late the other day she suggested we may have matured as nation re abuse etc,

rusbbish there are so many international norms/laws we ignore, ireland is not mature.

does she ever go anywhere that isn't smelling of fresh paint?

tolosenc

Not get rid of president, but change the role so that it has some function.

friendface

Toulousain wrote: »

Not get rid of president, but change the role so that it has some function.

Exactly, at the moment the president doesn't appear to have any influence and only seems to speak publically on rare occasions. What we need is someone charismatic and influential who can effectively represent Ireland abroad. Any suggestions?

JonathanAnon

friendface wrote: »

Exactly, at the moment the president doesn't appear to have any influence and only seems to speak publically on rare occasions. What we need is someone charismatic and influential who can effectively represent Ireland abroad. Any suggestions?

Is this not the remit of the Department of Foreign Affairs / Bord Failte?

friendface

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Is this not the remit of the Department of Foreign Affairs / Bord Failte?

Well, I mean someone to act as the face of Ireland. I'm sure the majority of Americans or Europeans would not be able to name the president of Ireland. It reminds me of that Simpsons Patricks day episode where Homer sticks a barrel on his head and says "Look at me, I'm the prime minister of Ireland".

I doubt Brian Cowen would be instantly recognizable to foreign nations. For example, Italy's president would be their most recognizable public figure (might not be such a good thing ) and his role would be similar to that of Mary McAleese in that he would have much power and his role as president is largely 'ceremonial'.

When Ireland is in the spotlight of the international media, I think it would be beneficial to have someone to come out and represent our nation. Someone who is articulate and well-educated.

oppenheimer1

friendface wrote: »

Well, I mean someone to act as the face of Ireland. I'm sure the majority of Americans or Europeans would not be able to name the president of Ireland. It reminds me of that Simpsons Patricks day episode where Homer sticks a barrel on his head and says "Look at me, I'm the prime minister of Ireland".

I doubt Brian Cowen would be instantly recognizable to foreign nations. For example, Italy's president would be their most recognizable public figure (might not be such a good thing ) and his role would be similar to that of Mary McAleese in that he would have much power and his role as president is largely 'ceremonial'.

When Ireland is in the spotlight of the international media, I think it would be beneficial to have someone to come out and represent our nation. Someone who is articulate and well-educated.

Well that simply isn't true, Italys most recognisable public figure is Silvio Berlusconi in my opinion. I had to go to wikipedia to find out who their president was.

The main reason Irelands president has little recognition is that her role is almost totally ceremonial, its a hangover from the times prior to independence. Our whole political model is based on the british system, an elected lower house like the commons, a largely appointed upper house like the Lords and a ceremonial head of state like the Queen. One would need to totally redesign the system if you were to change any part substantially, in order to keep the checks and balances.

If bills aren't constitutional, its not just the president who can defer them to the supreme court, any citizen can challenge the constitutionality of any law. See Crotty V An Taoiseach as an example. As regards NAMA, it could be perhaps regarded as a "money bill" under which the president has no authority to refuse.

The presidency shouldn't be scrapped, it is vital in a democracy. The office does need tweaking to make it more relevant, over the past 20 years it has taken on a sort of "Mammy of Ireland" role. Thats more down to the style of the holders rather than the office I guess.

sceptre

friendface wrote: »

For example, Italy's president would be their most recognizable public figure (might not be such a good thing ) and his role would be similar to that of Mary McAleese in that he would have much power and his role as president is largely 'ceremonial'.

You may well be the only person alive to think that Giorgio Napolitano is more recognisable than Silvio Berlusconi. Even Napolitano doesn't think that.

Internationally, like it or not, Ireland's most recognisable figure is probably Bono. Odds are good, based on past discussion, that few of you want him as president of this country. Just an aside.

friendface

May have got my wires crossed abit when I was writing that lol. I wasn't suggesting we scrap the presidential role though but as I see it, we could do with having a better more influential leader figure as president. Bono wouldn't be my first choice either I mean someone who can come out and 'take control' in times of crisis, to address the nation publicly and give confidence to the the people. As opposed to TDs and party leaders who are too caught up in their own party political agenda.

yoshytoshy

Overheal wrote: »

Who in Ireland will do that exactly?

Sorry for not replying sooner.

Someone new ,not next in line. Politics in this country is like a merry-go-round ,after a while it makes you dizzy.

Surely irish people can decide on the role of the president ?

oppenheimer1

friendface wrote: »

May have got my wires crossed abit when I was writing that lol. I wasn't suggesting we scrap the presidential role though but as I see it, we could do with having a better more influential leader figure as president. Bono wouldn't be my first choice either I mean someone who can come out and 'take control' in times of crisis, to address the nation publicly and give confidence to the the people. As opposed to TDs and party leaders who are too caught up in their own party political agenda.

But we do have a person who is meant to be influential and take control in a time of crisis, that person is called the Taoiseach. What you're suggesting is we scrap the anglo model our current system is based on and replace it with the franco/american system. I really don't see the need for that change.

mickeyrooo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well that simply isn't true, Italys most recognisable public figure is Silvio Berlusconi in my opinion. I had to go to wikipedia to find out who their president was.

The main reason Irelands president has little recognition is that her role is almost totally ceremonial, its a hangover from the times prior to independence. Our whole political model is based on the british system, an elected lower house like the commons, a largely appointed upper house like the Lords and a ceremonial head of state like the Queen. One would need to totally redesign the system if you were to change any part substantially, in order to keep the checks and balances.

If bills aren't constitutional, its not just the president who can defer them to the supreme court, any citizen can challenge the constitutionality of any law. See Crotty V An Taoiseach as an example. As regards NAMA, it could be perhaps regarded as a "money bill" under which the president has no authority to refuse.

The presidency shouldn't be scrapped, it is vital in a democracy. The office does need tweaking to make it more relevant, over the past 20 years it has taken on a sort of "Mammy of Ireland" role. Thats more down to the style of the holders rather than the office I guess.

I agree until the last paragraph....If its a hangover from pre-independence, an almost totally ceremonial role which has no real individual function then the system should be more than just tweaked...we need an overhaul!!!