Islam4uk to march in Wootten Bassett

junder

lot of talk about rights not much about responsiblitys

FlutterinBantam

Alcatel wrote: »

Watched an interview with a spokesman for this group on Sky News (I think it's in the video section of sky.com/news). He was referring to "Sheikh" Osama Bin Laden, very popular freedom fighter for Muslim people, blah blah blah.

Says it all about this bunch, really.

They're looking to make a point by marching in Wootten Bassett. From a PR point of view I can understand that. It's their fundamental message I'd have a problem with.

If they like Islamic countries so much, move to one.

In the meantime, the coalition is fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The same Taliban that burns down schools and kills teachers who offer education to girls.

Great bunch to support.

The war in Afghanistan isn't about spreading Christianity or any bull like that. It's about stopping global terrorism and the drugs trade and hopefully providing the Afghans with a stable enviroment in which they can try and establish their own democracy.

Yes, that's the order of the priorities, too. Afghanistan gets democracy because the west wants to fight terrorism there, the country having been the launching pad for the greatest terrorist attack ever perpitrated against the west.

Are there civilian deaths? Yes. It's a war. But should we abandon the war there? Do you think the Islamists would stop sending terrorists to bomb western countries? I doubt it. Islamic dictators have long used the west to excuse their own shortcomings.

Should we leave Afghanistan to people who refuse to allow women to be educated?

These guys looking to march in Wootten Bassett are a bunch of troublemakers who should move to an Islamic country.

But, it's their democratic right to march there, or anywhere in Europe. You know why? Because we're better than them. Because we're not reactionary fools. The UK and other European nations are democracies and you're entitled to free speech, unlike the people of Afghanistan under the Taliban. Or in just about any other strictly Islamic run part of the world, ruled by the type of rules these marchers advocate.

A lot more democracy than the flea ridden deserts they purport to support.

spank_inferno

Alcatel wrote: »

Watched an interview with a spokesman for this group on Sky News (I think it's in the video section of sky.com/news). He was referring to "Sheikh" Osama Bin Laden, very popular freedom fighter for Muslim people, blah blah blah.

Says it all about this bunch, really.

They're looking to make a point by marching in Wootten Bassett. From a PR point of view I can understand that. It's their fundamental message I'd have a problem with.

If they like Islamic countries so much, move to one.

In the meantime, the coalition is fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The same Taliban that burns down schools and kills teachers who offer education to girls.

Great bunch to support.

The war in Afghanistan isn't about spreading Christianity or any bull like that. It's about stopping global terrorism and the drugs trade and hopefully providing the Afghans with a stable enviroment in which they can try and establish their own democracy.

Yes, that's the order of the priorities, too. Afghanistan gets democracy because the west wants to fight terrorism there, the country having been the launching pad for the greatest terrorist attack ever perpitrated against the west.

Are there civilian deaths? Yes. It's a war. But should we abandon the war there? Do you think the Islamists would stop sending terrorists to bomb western countries? I doubt it. Islamic dictators have long used the west to excuse their own shortcomings.

Should we leave Afghanistan to people who refuse to allow women to be educated?

These guys looking to march in Wootten Bassett are a bunch of troublemakers who should move to an Islamic country.

But, it's their democratic right to march there, or anywhere in Europe. You know why? Because we're better than them. Because we're not reactionary fools. The UK and other European nations are democracies and you're entitled to free speech, unlike the people of Afghanistan under the Taliban. Or in just about any other strictly Islamic run part of the world, ruled by the type of rules these marchers advocate.

Excellent post

</thread>

Pedro K

Alcatel wrote: »

Watched an interview with a spokesman for this group on Sky News (I think it's in the video section of sky.com/news). He was referring to "Sheikh" Osama Bin Laden, very popular freedom fighter for Muslim people, blah blah blah.

Says it all about this bunch, really.

They're looking to make a point by marching in Wootten Bassett. From a PR point of view I can understand that. It's their fundamental message I'd have a problem with.

If they like Islamic countries so much, move to one.

In the meantime, the coalition is fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The same Taliban that burns down schools and kills teachers who offer education to girls.

Great bunch to support.

The war in Afghanistan isn't about spreading Christianity or any bull like that. It's about stopping global terrorism and the drugs trade and hopefully providing the Afghans with a stable enviroment in which they can try and establish their own democracy.

Yes, that's the order of the priorities, too. Afghanistan gets democracy because the west wants to fight terrorism there, the country having been the launching pad for the greatest terrorist attack ever perpitrated against the west.

Are there civilian deaths? Yes. It's a war. But should we abandon the war there? Do you think the Islamists would stop sending terrorists to bomb western countries? I doubt it. Islamic dictators have long used the west to excuse their own shortcomings.

Should we leave Afghanistan to people who refuse to allow women to be educated?

These guys looking to march in Wootten Bassett are a bunch of troublemakers who should move to an Islamic country.

But, it's their democratic right to march there, or anywhere in Europe. You know why? Because we're better than them. Because we're not reactionary fools. The UK and other European nations are democracies and you're entitled to free speech, unlike the people of Afghanistan under the Taliban. Or in just about any other strictly Islamic run part of the world, ruled by the type of rules these marchers advocate.

Good post.

Realistically the best thing for the people of the town to do when this march goes ahead is all stay indoors. Go to the pub or something.

Let them march, but leave the place like a ghost town for them to march through. That will send a message.

Protesting against them will only play right into their freedom of speech argument.

eamo127

Alcatel wrote: »

Watched an interview with a spokesman for this group on Sky News (I think it's in the video section of sky.com/news). He was referring to "Sheikh" Osama Bin Laden, very popular freedom fighter for Muslim people, blah blah blah.

Says it all about this bunch, really.

They're looking to make a point by marching in Wootten Bassett. From a PR point of view I can understand that. It's their fundamental message I'd have a problem with.

If they like Islamic countries so much, move to one.

In the meantime, the coalition is fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The same Taliban that burns down schools and kills teachers who offer education to girls.

Great bunch to support.

The war in Afghanistan isn't about spreading Christianity or any bull like that. It's about stopping global terrorism and the drugs trade and hopefully providing the Afghans with a stable enviroment in which they can try and establish their own democracy.

Yes, that's the order of the priorities, too. Afghanistan gets democracy because the west wants to fight terrorism there, the country having been the launching pad for the greatest terrorist attack ever perpitrated against the west.

Are there civilian deaths? Yes. It's a war. But should we abandon the war there? Do you think the Islamists would stop sending terrorists to bomb western countries? I doubt it. Islamic dictators have long used the west to excuse their own shortcomings.

Should we leave Afghanistan to people who refuse to allow women to be educated?

These guys looking to march in Wootten Bassett are a bunch of troublemakers who should move to an Islamic country.

But, it's their democratic right to march there, or anywhere in Europe. You know why? Because we're better than them. Because we're not reactionary fools. The UK and other European nations are democracies and you're entitled to free speech, unlike the people of Afghanistan under the Taliban. Or in just about any other strictly Islamic run part of the world, ruled by the type of rules these marchers advocate.

One of the more sensible posts among the thinly veiled support for the taliban displayed by some posters on this thread.

bmaxi

I heard today they haven't even applied to march. Obviously the intent is to drum up as much anti Islamic feeling as they can, without actually having to attract a decent attendance.

irish_bob

bmaxi wrote: »

I heard today they haven't even applied to march. Obviously the intent is to drum up as much anti Islamic feeling as they can, without actually having to attract a decent attendance.

more like drum up anti islamofascist support

Mr. SS

Alcatel wrote: »

Because we're better than them.

And that is what it is all about and what we need to remember... it is not racist to say you believe your values to be better than another groups.

Excellent post.

bmaxi

March called off, whatever the reasons a good result. I doubt there would have been any winners.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8451014.stm

DrumSteve

Mr. SS wrote: »

And that is what it is all about and what we need to remember... it is not racist to say you believe your values to be better than another groups.

Excellent post.

Says Mr. SS:D

Anyways I fully agree with their right to protest and march, indeed it is one of the great things about western society that we can disagree with whatever we want and march about it. Simply by marching they are exposing one the inherent differences between east and west: the right to protest( just ask the iranians....).

wes

Extremist Islamist groups to be banned under new terror laws

Membership of either al-Muhajiroun or Islam4UK would become punishable by 10-year prison term under proposed law

The Islamist group Islam4UK, which planned a march through Wootton Bassett, and its "parent" organisation, al-Muhajiroun, are to be banned under new legislation outlawing the "glorification" of terrorism.

The home secretary, Alan Johnson, is expected to sign off a parliamentary order later this week proposing the ban, based on months of monitoring the output of websites and comments by senior figures.

The decision to proscribe the two organisations, which will have to be endorsed by parliament, will make it a criminal offence punishable by a prison term of up to 10 years to be a member of either organisation, or to attend or address their meetings. Al-Muhajiroun was founded by Omar Bakri Muhammad and Anjem Choudary, and has been operating in Britain since the mid-1980s.

The group became notorious for praising the September 11 attacks in 2001. Bakri was banned from Britain by the former home secretary Charles Clarke in August 2005, on the grounds that his presence in the country was "not conducive to the public good".

At the same time, the Home Office announced its intention to ban the group but it disappeared from view before relaunching itself in June last year.

Click here for full article

Well, I have to say the planned march seems to have back fired on them, but won't a ban just make these guys go underground and be much harder challenge then.

Also, why not ban the likes of the BNP, who say nasty stuff as well?

Nick_oliveri

wes wrote: »

Well, I have to say the planned march seems to have back fired on them, but won't a ban just make these guys go underground and be much harder challenge then.

Also, why not ban the likes of the BNP, who say nasty stuff as well?

Its easier to just silence them and threaten their members with a max of ten years imprisonment. A great policy, it wont make their case any stronger or their followers or supporters any more fundamentalist...

I think its great the way people can forget about actual civilians being killed in this "war against terror". But who cares right? They're lower class Moslems lol.... The Taliban are a right bunch of bastards, but I think that western society should have higher priorities on their lists . What next? Spread democracy in Saudi Arabia? No, we've got friends in higher places there..
Iran or NK? China? Either take a stand against all these assholes or STFU.

Fratton Fred

The threats from Iran and NK are not spreading yet. If NK starts training people to fly planes into buildings, or blow up tube trains, or commuters on the train to work, then they will get the same treatment I suspect.

There is also the very real threat that the Taliban/Islamic extremists could take over Pakistan, a country with Nuclear weapons, this would probably result in an invasion of Pakistan by India.

The war in Afghanistan is the best way to tackle this.

Nick_oliveri

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The threats from Iran and NK are not spreading yet. If NK starts training people to fly planes into buildings, or blow up tube trains, or commuters on the train to work, then they will get the same treatment I suspect.

What like Iraq? What was that? Off topic I suppose and done to death.
Again I would like to state that the statistics just do not weigh up for this campaign. We have had other valid priorities staring us in the face for decades.

There is no "why are they doing it" anymore, theres no motive other than they are the evil ones. Silencing these groups in the UK in the manner that they are will only serve to further their cause. Theres no progress in this case or even Afghanistan.

Karzai told The Post that "there were many wonderful people in the Taliban."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/10/AR2008021001972.html

dvpower

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Karzai told The Post that "there were many wonderful people in the Taliban."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/10/AR2008021001972.html

That quote is 12 years old.

Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised to hear him saying it nowadays. It seems pretty clear that the Taliban aren't going to be defeated militarily, so it makes sense to try and invite them back into the political process.

That tactic worked pretty well here.

Nick_oliveri

dvpower wrote: »

Tbh, I wouldn't be surprised to hear him saying it nowadays. It seems pretty clear that the Taliban aren't going to be defeated militarily, so it makes sense to try and invite them back into the political process.

Why can't they be defeated militarily? Genuine question here and I am not leading you!

dvpower

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Why can't they be defeated militarily? Genuine question here and I am not leading you!

I guess its not strictly true to say that there can't be, but the military campaign hasn't been an overwhelming sucess so far and Obama has recently announced a start date for withdrawal of July 2011. Defeat of the Taliban by that date is a tall order.

Peanut

Why is this UK group being banned exactly?

It doesn't reflect well on the British government tbh unless they can show that there is a solid case that this group were spreading incitement to terrorist activities and not just sh*t stirring. Hopefully something a bit more convincing than posts on a website.

They may suspect that they are, they may have good circumstantial evidence, but it needs to be shown to the public that they're not just being punished for their political views. Otherwise they risk handing this group more attention and sympathy than they deserve.

Nodin

From a silly man who used make a fool of himself on chatshows to leader of a banned organisation....Not the brightest move by the Brits.

pablomakaveli

The best thing is to ignore groups like these, but if there is the potential for terrorists being recruited from this group it's understandable to see why some feel banning them is more appropriate.

kenneth5

Banning them is a total joke. It is clear that they are extremists who want an all muslim Britain. As much as i disagree with such an ideolagy they must be free to express it. The Bnp want an all white Britain and they're not banned. This ban sende out the message that you can only be an extremist in the uk if that extremism is of a white nationalism nature. Islamic nationalism isn't tolerarted. Another thing, pigon holing this group as terroists is unjustified in my views. Alright they may sympathise with the taliban but the likes of the Bnp aren't shy of showing sympathy for loyalist terroists. Calling them terroists gives muslim extremists an opportunity to instill the persecution menatality in young muslims. The british establishment want the muslim community to believe they live in a democracy. Calling these guys terroists and banning their group doesn't really uphold that claim well. I can see this fueling support for islamic extremism in Britain.