Not doing the Santa thing

KittyeeTrix

Dear lord, will ya just let the kids be kids and stop over thinking everything.......
There is nothing more magical than watching the kids reaction to all things related to Santa at xmas. They already grow up too fast and know things too early!!!!!!!
Honest to god, sometimes I despair.....

Chicken Run

in our house, "Santa" brings a stocking full of silly little presents - the sort of stuff that mum & dad won't normally let you have...water pistols, farty putty, crap sweets etc etc and the presents under the tree are labelled with who's given them and they are thanked accordingly.

Kind of a middle ground ?

Often Santa's "surprises" are more played with and appreciated than the bigger "asked for" presents as well.

DinoBot

ebmma wrote: »

We're not militant about it, there are just some things we don't end up doing..(like getting a tv:D).

anyone has experience in not doing Santa?

Hi,

Well I have a little bit experience with the whole 'no Santa' thing. My kids are aged from 15 to 4. We never did the whole Santa for the older kids. From the very start we told them Santa was not real and its the parents who give the toys at Christmas. We always answered every question they asked about it.

Did it take away from the magical experience of Christmas, NO! We still had presents, still woke up early and went down stairs to open presents. There was still great excitement going to bed Christmas eve and waking Christmas morning.
We actually asked the kids if they felt they missed out, they said no.

With the youngest, who is 4 this year, and with us being older and wiser (and perhaps less militant), we did have Santa. He is Santa mad But he also knows Santa is not real and is just pretend. Well as much as any 4yr old can make of it.

My advice would be don't be too strict about it, kids have a great imagination. Let them develop by themselves, when they ask about it, answer honestly. You will see its a much more organic process that way. Like kids learn that although animals in books and cartoons talk, real animals don't.

That's what worked for us. But every kid is different, every family is different. So do what makes you and your family happy. At the end of the day thats what counts.


...... but as for no TV, are you crazy!!! LOL


Just reading over some of the comments here makes me laugh, people really can't see beyond their own little lives. Do people understand that some people have different beliefs, alot of different faiths don't do Santa, muslims, jehovah's witnesses, hindus, bahai.
Does this make all these people 'bad parents' ?? I suppose a school system which isolates kids of different faiths has this effect so its to be expected, but it still surprises me to hear it still in 2010.

eviltwin

No tv...good luck to anyone who can get away with that one

OP you're not only going to let your child miss out on a great experience you and your partner will also be missing out on what is for most parents one of the most magical parts of christmas

My daughter is long past the believing in Santa stage and its definately lost some of its charm now. The build up to the big day, the excitement of Christmas Eve and seeing her face on Christmas morning remain for me one of the most wonderful memories of her childhood.

lynski

good thread. I am not comfortable with the whole santa thing too. we have told our ds that santa is a story but he still gets a little santa pressie unwrapped under the tree and all other pressies from family members. He is 3 we will see and dd is 1 so will work on her too.
I am not comfortable with the santa thing because it is grown so much since i was a child - we had a fear we would not get anything, genuine and also that we had no control over what we did get. you could ask, but you got what you got. we always understood that parents had to pay for the toys he brought too, not sure of the technical details but they did. it is all to indulgent now. it is fine saying let them by kids, but we have to teach them your values too.
Also as an atheist christmas presents a lot of challenges that we will have to overcome as time goes on. Enjoyed the season for the family get together, dh off work and the holiday stuff. Luckily in a more multicultural Ireland we will not be as alone as my friends who were raised pagan in the 80s!

Dudess

Kaison Short Prison wrote: »

IF you do not believe that this is the right way to raise your child, then don't do it. Following the sheep isn't the answer. Do what you think is right. Those less ignorant will support your decision either way... Ignore the rest.

Yes, parents make Christmas a magical, fantastical time for their children... in order to be sheep.
"Ignorant" - lol. Guess most of us are ignorant so. Do you ever tire of being so aggressively judgemental and self-righteous?

OP, it's not a fair thing to do IMO. So what if you and your partner didn't believe? And not believing is not the same as what you propose - you were still told there was a Santa weren't you? So there was choice - your child won't have a choice if you go down this route.
Your reasoning that all families are different isn't relevant either, IMO - so what? Why should that be imposed on a young child? When a kid is small, they want to experience what their peers are experiencing, and there's nothing wrong with that - they've plenty of time to be individuals and different.

stovelid

I've also started to rehearse my objections for the tooth fairy with my son.

Winged female entities have better things to be doing then dressing up in titillating sparkly dresses and drudging around picking up young men's discarded teeth.

And I'm deeply unhappy about the exploitative commercial aspect of the underlying body-for-money paradigm.

Celestial prostitution, to be perfectly frank.

Ickle Magoo

Not to mention sexist.

LadyTBolt

My daughter last year, when in Senior Infants, one of her classmates told the class there was no such thing as Santa. Her parents didn't do Santa and passed on their views. The classmate is a lovely quiet child and the strange thing is not one child in the class believed her. My own daughter sat in to my car when I collected her and explained how this little girl told everybody that the mammy and daddy buys the presents and hides them and puts them under the tree when the children are in bed Christmas Eve. I was speechless. I wasn't expecting that from a 5yr old. Before I could open my mouth she then went on to say that what this little girl said was a big lie and how could she say such a thing and that she thinks the girl is confused with the presents mammy and daddy buy for each other and other children they know.

I felt bad for the little girl for a number of reasons. She must have felt really lonely when nobody believed her. When she gets older and its a case of I told you so when they all find out he's not real, nobody will care if he's real or not, Santa is a big magical figure in lots of childrens eyes.

You can choose not to do the santa thing if you wish to. It's completely your decision as a parent. However, what if when your child starts thinking for itself your child might want to believe? Will they feel left out if you don't support the idea of Santa? Children change our lives so much when they arrive and they change our outlook on different things too. It can be hard explaining to our little ones the harsh realities of life in all things real and make-belief. Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

Hotblack Desiato

drkpower wrote: »

You seem to be letting your own memories interfere with what is best for your kid.

Actually, they seem to be letting their own experiences interfere with what other people think is best for their kid.

Good parenting in my book... conformity for the sake of it is never a good thing, if it's what you want and believe in then good.

Hotblack Desiato

lynski wrote: »

I am not comfortable with the santa thing because it is grown so much since i was a child

Absolutely. It is waaay out of hand for a lot of people these days, that doesn't mean it has to be that way if you choose to do it, but it doesn't make it any easier. What most people do should not sway you as a parent into doing something you don't feel comfortable about. e.g. Most parents (even those with little or no religious belief) send their kids to religious schools, that doesn't mean we have to, or that our child is missing out just because their experience of childhood isn't 100% identical to everyone else's.

I've said it before, but conformity is way overrated, and reduces the range of experience a child is exposed to which is hardly a good thing.

Dudess

ninja900 wrote: »

conformity for the sake of it is never a good thing

It's hardly conformity for the sake of "it" - more for the sake of the child. Call me unenlightened but I don't think imposing a principle or set of principles on a 3 to 9-year-old is reasonable. And how is it good parenting? I'm sure it's good parenting in the sense that it makes the parent(s) feel good about themselves. What about the child? If Santa isn't "done" at home, what's the actual benefit for the child? Isn't that what should be paramount?

Ickle Magoo

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a 3-9yr old that hasn't had their parents principles imposed on them in one form or another.

Dudess

True Ickle, and it's only fair I point out I'm not a parent - however, in my opinion, teaching a child particular values that will give them life skills and hopefully ensure appropriate ways of behaving in particular situations is one thing, imposing something on them because it's the preference of the parent and not of any particular benefit to the child, is another.
You're not into the Santa thing, but you still bring it into their Christmas in some form.

Ickle Magoo

What actually benefits a child as seen by their parents vs other people is often very subjective.

We do a bit of the Santa thing because the alternative is to actively insist that there is no Santa - and I'm no more comfortable doing that than I am promoting him. So we end up with a kind of watered down version which doesn't really push the point but isn't making a statement in the negative either.

cranks

Santa, the tooth fairy, jack frost, the sandman, the boogy man, the banshee, leprechauns, mythology, parables, spirituality, mysticism, religion - all part of the same spectrum IMO. Take your pick when trying to instill some fundamental messages on the mysteries of human nature or even 'what it's all about'. I'm not so sure that running with the notion of a man who personifies benignity, generosity of spirit, forgiveness, etc is necessarily a bad thing for kids. The notion of Santa has become such a vehicle.

In my experience, the kids will lead the way, ask the questions, lap it up as long as is their inclination, and ultimately have their epiphany whereby they turn to you one day with words to the effect 'Santa's a load of bollix'. (Many people go through the same process with respect to religion and God). However, the deeper meanings do stick methinks and most kids will simultaneously understand that the deceit was in some way purposeful and tend to be only too happy to run with it themselves for younger siblings.

PS. Please answer a 4 year olds question: Who'd win in a race, Santa or Holy God? (Personally, I felt that it was important to touch on notions of obesity, lightweight clothing, running on clouds or snow, and wind direction)

Dudess

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

We do a bit of the Santa thing because the alternative is to actively insist that there is no Santa - and I'm no more comfortable doing that than I am promoting him. So we end up with a kind of watered down version which doesn't really push the point but isn't making a statement in the negative either.

Seems like an ideal compromise really.

Hotblack Desiato

Dudess wrote: »

It's hardly conformity for the sake of "it" - more for the sake of the child.

That's your opinion, quite a few people do not share that opinion, I'd be of similar opinion to Ickle Magoo myself, the crass commercialism and materialism that comes along with Christmas gets on my nerves...

Call me unenlightened but I don't think imposing a principle or set of principles on a 3 to 9-year-old is reasonable.

If you don't start then (before then, really) you'll have no hope when they're teenagers... I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking that pester power can get them anything, or what other kids parents (supposedly) let their kids do should dictate what they're allowed to do.

spfeno

Christmas is all about children (from a family point of view)

We will be coming out of the other end of it having three kids pass through the 'myth'. Myself and other half have discussed it this year and we will miss it when we start to have to go through the Yultide Heretic phase of family life.

Its a hard one to call especially since you haven't really started yet but I would say your attitude may change when junior hits the two plus mark.

stovelid

ninja900 wrote: »

If you don't start then (before then, really) you'll have no hope when they're teenagers... I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking that pester power can get them anything, or what other kids parents (supposedly) let their kids do should dictate what they're allowed to do.

In the next few few years, I'll have no problem with going along with Santa. That in no way means that I'll automatically be a soft touch for "pester power" down the line.

Ickle Magoo

cranks wrote: »

PS. Please answer a 4 year olds question: Who'd win in a race, Santa or Holy God?

Eh, we don't do him either. :pac:

Dudess

ninja900 wrote: »

the crass commercialism and materialism that comes along with Christmas gets on my nerves...

Me too... but how does that automatically go hand in hand with Santa? Santa is about bringing a touch of magic to Christmas, not necessarily "getting loads of stuff". The latter is only an interpretation of Santa - and really, if parents are going to spend a grand or more on a kid, then that's their stupidity, the blame doesn't lie with the Santa legend.

If you don't start then (before then, really) you'll have no hope when they're teenagers... I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking that pester power can get them anything, or what other kids parents (supposedly) let their kids do should dictate what they're allowed to do.

I don't understand how promoting Santa = pushy kid, which is what you appear to be saying above. If you think preventing your child from becoming a spoilt, demanding nightmare means not doing the Santa thing, well... I don't know where you're coming from. Put it this way: I believed in Santa until I was 10 and I wasn't a demanding child. If I got a bit whingey because I couldn't get something I asked for, I'd be told to put a sock in it rather than my mother/father giving in.
I also don't see the problem with doing the Santa thing in order to prevent the child from feeling left out - can't see how it isn't anything other than the fairest option really.

stovelid wrote: »

That in no way means that I'll automatically be a soft touch for "pester power" down the line.

/tries to get head around the idea of Stovelid as stern, no-nonsense parent.

/can't...

Hotblack Desiato

Dudess, I was responding to this:

Call me unenlightened but I don't think imposing a principle or set of principles on a 3 to 9-year-old is reasonable.

and that you said you're not a parent

Principles and values are one of the most important things you pass on to your kids.

As I said, we'll be taking a similar approach towards Santa as Ickle Magoo, I'd rather not do it at all, my wife is more keen on it, so we are going to compromise

metrovelvet

I find the literalism that is pushed in by secularism sucks the joy out of life. Just another strain of puritanism.

Ickle Magoo

Eh, slightly hysterical. I come from a secular country and family, more joie de vivre than you could poke a stick at. Different to you doesn't mean worse than you.

Dudess

ninja900 wrote: »

Principles and values are one of the most important things you pass on to your kids.

Of course. I acknowledged that earlier - however I don't believe in passing on/imposing principles which aren't of any benefit to the child (seem more like something that fulfils a need of the parents) and indeed might serve to have a detrimental effect on them - resentment being one possible outcome. My opinion is this is what a lack of Santa would be akin to.
But the compromise you and Ickle are going for is not the same as denial of Santa, to be fair.

metrovelvet

Though shall have no false idols. Now burn and destroy whatever art you can find.

Ickle Magoo

One minute you are deriding this as being secularism and the next you are quoting commandments we should adhere to, make up your mind.

metrovelvet

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

One minute you are deriding this as being secularism and the next you are quoting commandments we should adhere to, make up your mind.

You are thinking in literal terms again. To spell it out for you, I would use finger puppets but they are probably too fictional and might confuse you even more, I was using that quote to illustrate the link between puritanical thought and the secular prohibition of Santa.

nlgbbbblth

ebmma wrote: »

We're expecting our 1st next year and (given the type of season ) the whole Santa thing came up...

The thing is I don't think I'll be comfortable doing it.

ebmma wrote: »

We're not militant about it, there are just some things we don't end up doing..(like getting a tv:D).

Not doing Santa and not owning a television: do these two things always go hand in hand or is it just my imagination? :rolleyes: