since 2002 State has paid out €1bn to Traveller projects (mod warning post 207)

imme

Shryke wrote: »

Travelers live the way they live out of choice. I don't care what you blame the reason for that on and I don't care.
People don't choose to be old. Your argument is retarded.

thanks.
it was and it wasn't an argument. you say people don't chose to be old, yet the state pays for them, they don't have to. the state pays towards traveller projects, yet they don't have to.

I was really putting in the 'older people' thing to get posters to think a bit. Sometimes people on here can go a bit mad, if you know what I mean. Sometimes they need to think.

johnathan woss

Flamed Diving wrote: »

And by that measure, whose fault is it that African-Americans are disproportionately represented in American prisons?

I'm sure there are many issues at play but I'm equally sure that a large part of the fault lies with the African-Americans that are in prison.

ttoppcat

Paulzx wrote: »

How the hell are they classed as an ethnic minority? They're Irish, white and Catholic. Same as the majority of the population in this country.

Just because they choose to live in caravans and behave differently to everyone else doesn't make them an ethnic minority.

The modern usage definition of the Oxford English Dictionary' is:
a[djective]
...2.a. Pertaining to race; peculiar to a race or nation; ethnological. Also, pertaining to or having common racial, cultural, religious, or linguistic characteristics, esp. designating a racial or other group within a larger system; hence (U.S. colloq.), foreign, exotic.
b ethnic minority (group), a group of people differentiated from the rest of the community by racial origins or cultural background, and usu. claiming or enjoying official recognition of their group identity. Also attrib.

Under most definitions of ethnic minority that I've read, Travellers fit the bill.
Many may argue that culturally they aren't any different from the settled population of Ireland, and its true we share common Irish cultural traits, but Travellers also share a distinct culture that we (the majority population) do not.

This thread and its posts have thoroughly f**king depressed me:(

Flamed Diving

johnathan woss wrote: »

I'm sure there are many issues at play but I'm equally sure that a large part of the fault lies with the African-Americans that are in prison.

Of course, it would be silly to suggest otherwise. However, it is far away from the world where all of the blame lays with the minority group. Certain uncomfortable truths need to be recognised about our society, not them alone.

BlaasForRafa

Welease wrote: »

Again, rubbish.. they pay taxes the same as everyone else once in employment.. there are 25% employed (according to the travellers association) and they pay normal PAYE and PRSI rates.. the unemployed get the same benefits as everyone else... absolutely no difference or preference.

You seem to be agrieved that they get the exact same rights as everyone else..... In fact, you list out the reasons why you dislike travellers and each and every point was in fact wrong..
How would you feel to be treated like that? Other posters have closed minds, and stated that the incorrect facts are all they need to know.... amazing....

Travellers paying tax...hahaha good one. I suppose they pay tax on the carpets they sell door to door and from tarmacking driveways as well.

You are the one that dosen't seem to living in the real world.

cavedave

maxximus

retract that , I did not advocate sterisation of anyone

What would that post seem to advocate to a reasonable person? If the post is actually a condemnation of involuntary sterlization I apologies and retract what i wrote.

Involuntary sterlization in Canada is now classed as a bad thingURL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization"]1[/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Canada"]2[/URL

"In 1995, Leilani was awarded $750,000CAD and $230,000CAD in damages for her wrongful and humiliating labeling as a moron and her subsequent sterilization. Since the victory, another 1300 cases have been opened... they may win suits based on involuntary sterilization, which is now considered battery under Canadian law."

Welease

MysticalRain wrote: »

The traveler lifestyle is a choice. Choosing to live a nomadic lifestyle on the margins of society is a choice by any definition of the word. It would be a different matter entirely if Travellers were a distinct ethnic group. Roma or Gypsies cannot change their ethnic heritage.

Yet your issue is with them obtaining social housing to be settled? I honesly don't undertand.. you complain about them travelling and you complain about them being settled.

MysticalRain wrote: »

I don't doubt for one second that there isn't some discrimination against Travelers. But the fact is anybody who does not have a fixed abode will find it difficult to find employment. Most traveler children do not complete secondary school. That makes entire generations of Travellers unemployable. Again, that's no fault of the settled community. That's just shortsightedness on the part of traveler parents. .

Agreed. Hence the money spent on education to help break the cycle.. We can spend it for disabled, religious groups etc.. whats the issue with spending it on the travelling community?.. especially is the unemployment levels have dropped from 95 to 75%?
But don't try and dismiss the descriminination... look at the responses in this post.. that is sadly representative across Ireland.. The vast majority of people in Ireland will not employ someone from the travelling comminity.

MysticalRain wrote: »

I understand also that many settled Travellers happen to live in bad areas and are discriminated because of that. But that's no different to the obstacles that any working class person from Sheriff St might face. Plenty of foreigners in this country also face discrimination. Yet the vast majority of them can somehow find employment. If they are uneducated, they can always work on a building site and probably earn more than many people with degrees.

I simply called you out on that because judging by your posts, you were acting like a member of the PC brigade.

Agreed they can, and those people also face discrimination in their lives...

Trust me, I'm not. .. As i said, I don't claim to represent anyone but I firmly believe that rules should apply to all society not single groups.. cut housing, cut it for everyone.. cut dole, cut it for everyone...
As I said, i think we pay far to much for welfare, PS and government in this country.. I pay the top rate of tax and see it being wasted day in day out by people I would not even employ in a labour shortage... BUT, that is the fault of the decison makers not the recipients.

Welease

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Travellers paying tax...hahaha good one. I suppose they pay tax on the carpets they sell door to door and from tarmacking driveways as well.

You are the one that dosen't seem to living in the real world.

ok, so show me the statistics that prove no travellers pay tax?

those jobs can be done by anyone, and no they don't all pay the correct tax, neither do all doctors, accountants etc..

but if you are going to state that travellers don't pay tax, I assume you actually have some information to back this up?

MysticalRain

Welease wrote: »

Yet your issue is with them obtaining social housing to be settled? I honesly don't undertand.. you complain about them travelling and you complain about them being settled.

If they want to live a settled life, then fine. Just don't expect the state to pay for it just because they happen to be travellers. Now if a single traveler mum needs a house for herself and her kids for example, then she should be entitled to apply for it as any Irish citizen would.

Agreed. Hence the money spent on education to help break the cycle.. We can spend it for disabled, religious groups etc.. whats the issue with spending it on the travelling community?.. especially is the unemployment levels have dropped from 95 to 75%?
But don't try and dismiss the descriminination... look at the responses in this post.. that is sadly representative across Ireland.. The vast majority of people in Ireland will not employ someone from the travelling comminity.

I'm all for spending money to further education for travellers. But it's obvious to me that not enough of traveler parents see the merits in pursuing an education. Part of the problem is the benefits culture they have become dependent on. Anybody without an education nowadays certainly will be discriminated against. That's just the modern world we live in. You can blame discrimination all you want, but Travellers have their own part to play in all of this as well. They are not just passive victims.

Yes, there are plenty of negative attitudes toward travellers in this thread. There is no good way to say it, but some of it is justified. Part of it has to do with higher crime rates, rowdy behavior, and general lack of respect towards private property that travellers exhibit. That's inevitably creates friction with the settled community. I don't disagree that some people might be unjustifiably prejudiced. But that's just how it is.

johnathan woss

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I would consider them an ethno-linguistic group, on account of their culture and distinct Shelta language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethno-linguistic_group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta_language

From the wikipedia page on the Shelta language;

"Sociologist Sharon Gmelch describes the Travellers' language as follows:[3]

“ Irish Travelers use a secret argot or cant known as Gammon. It is used primarily to conceal meaning from outsiders, especially during business transactions and in the presence of police. Most Gammon utterances are terse and spoken so quickly that a non-Traveler might conclude the words merely had been garbled.Most Gammon words were formed from Irish Gaelic by applying four techniques: reversal, metathesis, affixing, and substitution. In the first, an Irish word is reversed to form a Gammon one - mac, or son, in Irish became kam in Gammon. In the second, consonants or consonant clusters were transposed. Thirdly, a sound or cluster of sounds were either prefixed or suffixed to an Irish word. Some of the more frequently prefixed sounds were s, gr, and g. For example, Obair, work or job, became gruber in Gammon. Lastly, many Gammon words were formed by substituting an arbitrary consonant or consonant cluster in an Irish word. In recent years, modern slang and Romani (the language of the gypsies) words have been incorporated. The grammar and syntax are English. " "


That's not a language !
And look at what they use it for.

Welease

MysticalRain wrote: »

If they want to live a settled life, then fine. Just don't expect the state to pay for it just because they happen to be travellers. Now if a single traveler mum needs a house for herself and her kids for example, then she should be entitled to apply for it as any Irish citizen would.

Absolutely... I could not agree more.. (well actually given the fact I am not actually a liberal leftie i believe the father of her children should pay for it not me ). This thread however was about the that they should not be entitled to it because they are travellers regardless of employment status which I completely disagree with.

MysticalRain wrote: »

I'm all for spending money to further education for travellers. But it's obvious to me that not enough of traveler parents see the merits in pursuing an education. Part of the problem is the benefits culture they have become dependent on. Anybody without an education nowadays certainly will be discriminated against. That's just the modern world we live in. You can blame discrimination all you want, but Travellers have their own part to play in all of this as well. They are not just passive victims.

Absolutely, again reread my input i have never once stated differently.. This is a trait in a lot of people in "welfare Ireland".. Laws need to be tightened up across the board, but it needs to be done evenly.. you cannot pick on one segment in society.
Finish school .. get paid... Don't finish... **** off....

MysticalRain wrote: »

Yes, there are plenty of negative attitudes toward travellers in this thread. There is no good way to say it, but some of it is justified. Part of it has to do with higher crime rates, rowdy behavior, and general lack of respect towards private property that travellers exhibit. That's inevitably creates friction with the settled community. I don't disagree that some people might be unjustifiably prejudiced. But that's just how it is.

Justification comes with evidence to prove the problem, anything less ia prejudice.. I have asked each and every poster to provide statistical evidence or data to backup their position.. Only one person has done so, Sand, and his/her data related to prison population which could be interpreted in many ways... they bulk of other "data" was unsubstantiated (excuse the language) bollox by idiots, who as they stated didn't care to hear otherwise. There is very little data available and what exists does not condemn travellers....

And by the way, it's been enjoyable discussing this with you Simple facts and discussion without the rabid need for point scoring.. Did it solve anythign? no.. but hopefully both sides might be slightly enlightened.. thanks.

AlekSmart

I makes my blood boil to see Ennis CC spend 500K per house for travellers.. but I am also intelligent enough to see that travellers had nothing to do with that.

Local Authorities have always had problems with the entire procedure of allocating/providing housing for members of the travelling community.

This became highly focused after the Housing Act 1998 and the resultant imposition of responsibility upon Local Authorities to cater specifically for the needs of the Traveller culture.

Since then the Local Authorities have struggled to meet an increasingly varied and at times highly individualistic set of needs,sometimes varying between different families.

A good sense of the different nature of Traveller Specific Housing may be gained from this set of DoE papers under Housing Policy-Travellers

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/

I do believe it is somewhat naieve to state that Travellers themselves "had nothing to do" with the excessive costs of meeting their highly specific off-standard requirements/demands.

It is fair,I believe,to apportion at least some responsibility on Traveller groups themselves for the high cost of meeting Their Own aspirations.

There is also the question of how a Local Authority can effectively deal with situations where Travellers themselves destroy the housing they recieve,sometimes repeatedly,whilst stoutly defending their right to ongoing facilitation.

I have often wondered why,for example,the rather splendid development of detached bungalows at Carrickmines in Co Dublin was repeatedly subjected to destruction by Fire to the extent that less than half of the original houses still stand.

Similarly,a small development at the Belgard Road in Tallaght over some 15 years of my accquaintance has been rebuilt several times after serious multiple Fire related incidents.

I`m not so sure I detect any great Racist or Discriminatory issue in the main body of posts on this thread, more a sense of despairing resignation at the realization that Traveller related housing will continue to be a major cost issue for those in the community whose place is to fund such worthwhile schemes.

Welease

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not so sure I detect any great Racist or Discriminatory issue in the main body of posts on this thread, more a sense of despairing resignation at the realization that Traveller related housing will continue to be a major cost issue for those in the community whose place is to fund such worthwhile schemes.

Let me point out a few before i head off to bed

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

I think its amazing that travelers actually want to live the way they do. I mean, and this aint PC, no one likes them. I mean this in the sense that if they set up shop near your house with caravans etc your gonna want to get rid of them, if a load of them come into a pub many people would be inclined to leave

994 wrote: »

Travellers want to bother others and be left alone. They want to commit crimes with impunity. And (from my parents being primary school teachers) I know that most traveller parents (especially fathers, who buy brand-new Jeeps and send their kids to school without breakfast or books) have no interest in educating their children.

SLUSK wrote: »

It can't be the actions of a lot of these so called travellers that cause this attitude towards travellers could it? In the news you always read about traveller riots and feuds. Go on youtube and look up king of the tinkers. That's all I need to know about these people.

irish_bob wrote: »

the majority of single mothers are not involved in criminal activity

SLUSK wrote: »

If people were less PC and actually said what they think about travellers here on boards they would probably be banned by the mods.

johnathan woss wrote: »

Previously in this thread the traveller population (current) was quoted at 30,000 so I am honestly fearful to think about how much higher their per capita murder and violent crime rates are compared to the rest of the population.

Of course those crime statisitics aren't published.
It would be funny to see people like you try to justify them.

johnathan woss wrote: »

Are you honestly suggesting that the traveller community does not have a higher per capita murder rate than the average population ?

It's hard to provide "links" because the media only mentions travellers when they absolutely have to.

thats before i gave up readin the drivel.. not a single one has provided a shred of evidence for their statements.. Once again, i ask, show me one benefit they get which is not available to other communities...and btw.. the cost is probably minimal... the current unemployed list is what 500K, there are 30K travellers of which apparently cos they all have 8 kids.. is what? a very generous 5K unemployed???

All housing costs are expensive for the state.. period...

imme

johnathan woss wrote: »

Are you honestly suggesting that the traveller community does not have a higher per capita murder rate than the average population ?

It's hard to provide "links" because the media only mentions travellers when they absolutely have to.

are you trying to be provocative?
What do you mean with your second point above. Does the media not report court cases. Maybe you should read the bible of a lot of posters here, the Indo.

ttoppcat

Phew!! Sterling work Welease. Just finished reading entire thread...I'm exhausted...god knows how you're feeling:D

Tha Gopher

brianthebard wrote: »

Yes if a community were from abroad it would be considered ethnophobic but since travellers are from Ireland its ok to be disgustingly discriminatory towards the traveller community as a whole.

You just arent going to give up spouting this pro traveller bile until the day you get shafted by one of these lovable rogues are you :pac:

At the height of our economic boom 88% of them were on the dole. Why the fcuk did we fund this? WTF does the UK government allow them to live there? How do they keep getting away with it?

hedgeh0g

Welease wrote: »

Actually 99% of the time I see the news it's a white non-traveller gang which are murdering people.. Are you trying to blame all the shootings in Dublin and Limerick on travellers? Check out youtube and look up Limerick Gangs.

Can we now stop all welfare benefits being given to white Irish non traveller people now?

Its the 99% that give the 1% a bad name.

imme

Tha Gopher wrote: »

You just arent going to give up spouting this pro traveller bile until the day you get shafted by one of these lovable rogues are you :pac:

At the height of our economic boom 88% of them were on the dole. Why the fcuk did we fund this? WTF does the UK government allow them to live there? How do they keep getting away with it?

source PLEASE;)

T runner

tinofapples wrote: »

It's well overdue time that the government cut these leaches outta society. How many of them on the dole have to prove they've been applying for work ?? They're probably the only members of society that couldn't care less about the state of the country i.e the recession where stuck in at the moment and no doubt will be for awhile.

It's not about been racist towards them, it's about fairness, plain and simple. If their parents take them out of schooling system at an early let the parents be responsible for the bloody future, not hard working taxpayers.

Fairness? Have you been fair to your countrymen in the recent past?
Im guessing youre middleclass? If so you are part of the majority of Irish people and also part of the income group that should be aware of social issues, like grinding poverty and should have the clout to do something about it.

Have you? No, sat on your arse complaining.

You are born into one of the wealthiest countries in the world, you have money and you have still allowed an underclass to develop of the poorest of the poor and did nothing bar suit yourself like the rest of us.

There was a lot of people ****ed in this country before the recession. You only care now because its affected everyone ie you. Travellers and other leeches (poor people) are wasting the dole and wrecking the country.

What a joke! It was us and our kind that caused the recesssion not any traveller.

Flamed Diving

johnathan woss wrote: »

From the wikipedia page on the Shelta language;

"Sociologist Sharon Gmelch describes the Travellers' language as follows:[3]

“ Irish Travelers use a secret argot or cant known as Gammon. It is used primarily to conceal meaning from outsiders, especially during business transactions and in the presence of police. Most Gammon utterances are terse and spoken so quickly that a non-Traveler might conclude the words merely had been garbled.Most Gammon words were formed from Irish Gaelic by applying four techniques: reversal, metathesis, affixing, and substitution. In the first, an Irish word is reversed to form a Gammon one - mac, or son, in Irish became kam in Gammon. In the second, consonants or consonant clusters were transposed. Thirdly, a sound or cluster of sounds were either prefixed or suffixed to an Irish word. Some of the more frequently prefixed sounds were s, gr, and g. For example, Obair, work or job, became gruber in Gammon. Lastly, many Gammon words were formed by substituting an arbitrary consonant or consonant cluster in an Irish word. In recent years, modern slang and Romani (the language of the gypsies) words have been incorporated. The grammar and syntax are English. " "


That's not a language!
And look at what they use it for.

Why? Because you say so? Is there some authoritative law on what a language is? In addition, you have blatantly ignored the full context of what I said.

What a terrible, terrible post by you. Why do you bother?

Tha Gopher

imme wrote: »

source PLEASE;)

Having re read this thread it was actually 95% of traveller men, not 88%.

Im sure that makes you very happy :pac:

imme

Tha Gopher wrote: »

Having re read this thread it was actually 95% of traveller men, not 88%.

Im sure that makes you very happy :pac:

you should do the lotto, you seem good at picking numbers!

I've raised this point before on this part of boards, it is that where posters use figures, they SHOULD post their source, it's only decent, fair, common courtesy.

Tha Gopher

imme wrote: »

you should do the lotto, you seem good at picking numbers!

I've raised this point before on this part of boards, it is that where posters use figures, they SHOULD post their source, it's only decent, fair, common courtesy.

If they are making a far fetched allegation, certainly. If someone claiming travellers have a high unemployment and criminality rate without giving a figure it should be taken at face value given how obvious it is from their conduct in society. Most travellers dont work. Travellers are proportionately more prone to criminality than the rest of the Irish population. Stats exist to show this, as posted earlier in the thread. And I refuse to believe that if you live in Ireland you would not know this.

Welease

Tha Gopher wrote: »

. Travellers are proportionately more prone to criminality than the rest of the Irish population. Stats exist to show this, as posted earlier in the thread. And I refuse to believe that if you live in Ireland you would not know this.

Actually the last Garda report on this stated they were not more predisposed to crime than any other segment of society, this is also backed up bu the Commision for Racial Equality report in the UK.
They have a higher % of people in prison, but there can be numerous factors for that, which do not relate directly to the % of crimes (descrimination for example). Ireland is a perfect example of that, how many of societies "elite" go to prison for their crimes here? Probably a much lower percentage than if those people had come from a "lower" social strata.

Tha Gopher

Welease wrote: »

Actually the last Garda report on this stated they were not more predisposed to crime than any other segment of society, this is also backed up bu the Commision for Racial Equality report in the UK.
They have a higher % of people in prison, but there can be numerous factors for that, which do not relate directly to the % of crimes (descrimination for example). Ireland is a perfect example of that, how many of societies "elite" go to prison for their crimes here? Probably a much lower percentage than if those people had come from a "lower" social strata.

I dont believe you. Source?

Also, if they could be bothered taking part in the education system or working jobs full stop maybe they wouldnt be at the bottom opf the ladder?

murphaph

Welease wrote: »

If there were enough halting sites with refuse facilities, would the cost be higher or lower than the cost of providing houses for an equal number of non-travelling social welfare receipients (with refuse collection included)?

A LOT of halting sites are largely empty because of traveller feuding-they don't want to use halting sites where they can be easily found.

Even in halting sites that are used, travellers OFTEN dump their refuse beside the free skips (skips such as these would cost a normal person about €1200 per removal), rather than actually putting their stuff into the skip. This then drives the cost of removing it even higher as the contractor has to load the skip, and of course pass the bill on to the taxpayer.

Welease, you say you don't know any travellers yet are astaounded by the hypocrisy of this thread, well I do actually know some, just so you know.

Travellers are treated with kid gloves in Ireland, and do little or nothing to integreate with society. If you think Ireland treats travellers badly, take a trip to Romania, Bulgaria or even Poland or Hungary to see how their gypsies live........

irish_bob

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Travellers paying tax...hahaha good one. I suppose they pay tax on the carpets they sell door to door and from tarmacking driveways as well.

You are the one that dosen't seem to living in the real world.

you forgot to include thier main form of employment , painting farm buildings in rural ireland with the trademark 9: 1 ratio of diesel to paint , they then return to the elderly farmer 6 months later offering to re-paint the sheds for half price , this time they very kindly apply an 8: 1 ratio of diesel to paint but rob his power washer to compensate for the extra paint ( source in the post welease )

irish_bob

Welease wrote: »

Let me point out a few before i head off to bed















thats before i gave up readin the drivel.. not a single one has provided a shred of evidence for their statements.. Once again, i ask, show me one benefit they get which is not available to other communities...and btw.. the cost is probably minimal... the current unemployed list is what 500K, there are 30K travellers of which apparently cos they all have 8 kids.. is what? a very generous 5K unemployed???

All housing costs are expensive for the state.. period...

because i cant provide evidence ( from some goverment org or other ) that tinkers killed my dog , ripped me off with a fraudelent service , harrassed my mother , its therefore untrue and without merrit and the tinkers who committed all theese acts are roaringly splendid fine fellows , cute trick you have there

irish_bob

imme wrote: »

are you trying to be provocative?
What do you mean with your second point above. Does the media not report court cases. Maybe you should read the bible of a lot of posters here, the Indo.

its only from this site that i learned that the feuding families in limerick are tinkers , not once have i ever heard it mentioned in the broadcast media , thier was a case last year where an 80 year old woman from monaghan was raped and robbed by a tinker , while today fm mentioned he was a tinker , rte did not

AlekSmart

Let me point out a few before i head off to bed

And I do hope you had an undisturbed repose Welease

In a thread of 177 posts I don`t really agree that 6 (7 if you include me !) individuals comprise some form of Racist and Discriminatory conspiracy against Travellers.

In the past 20 years there has NEVER been a greater availability of equality for Traveller culture.
This has not come without a price and that price has to be paid by somebody,usually the general body of working taxpaying individuals (including SOME Travellers themselves)

Whilst I accept your quest for "Statistics" in matters Traveller,you have to also consider the widespread reluctance of the Travelling community to actively co-operate with the gathering and collation of those vitally important statistics.

The Traveller culture jealously guards it`s unique status.

As a settled person I,you or any other non-traveller will find serious impediments in gaining admission to the inner sanctum of its operations.

Murphaph writes:

A LOT of halting sites are largely empty because of traveller feuding-they don't want to use halting sites where they can be easily found.

Even the thorny issue of housing Travellers cannot be moved forward to any great degree due to the marked reluctance of a significant number of the Travelling community to accept a fixed-abode....(for most of us,the first port of call for Bills,Summonses and the detritus of organized life).

I fear Welease is to forever wander the roads of Ireland,like some modern day Raftery, seeking the elusive statistics he/she so desires.

I contend that the Traveller community will do as much,if not more to frustrate that search as any of the so-called Racist and Discriminatory posters on this thread.

As for the eventual statistics which do appear in the public arena....

Actually the last Garda report on this stated they were not more predisposed to crime than any other segment of society, this is also backed up bu the Commision for Racial Equality report in the UK.

It is a difficult task for many reasons for Gardai to collate any meaningful stats on Traveller lawlessness,as the Gardai themselves are top of the list of groups which traditional Traveller culture will completely exclude,often with extreme vigour.

The UK CfRE is a body which is most efficient at producing reports and studies to support it`s continuing workload,whilst much of this work is of Interest I would see it as a body which can be motivated to take a particular view or slant to the issue it is studying...I respectfully demur from attaching any great credence to its findings.

At the end of the day,funding for Traveller related schemes,is fast receeding and Travellers themselves,just as the general population will be asking "What did we get for all that money....where`s the beef?"

In that way at least,Traveller and Settled Irish Citizen alike are TOTALLY equal !!