VRT disgraceful

colm88

My brother who lives in the UK has been offered a job in Bahrain starting in Feb. He had been trying to sell his car for a few weeks to no avail. I was offered the car very cheap considering what he paid for it and decided to think about it over Christmas before making a decision. I didnt give much thought to the whole vrt issue although my brother did mention it would be quite expensive to import to Ireland, still I imagined it would be a couple of grand say €3-€4k max ?

Ive just checked the vrt online and its €12,493 euros. OMG :eek:

This is absolutely disgraceful, who decides these crazy prices ? Im shocked. Has anyone on here actually ever paid an excessive vrt payment like this ? this is wrong if not illegal ?.

Ive heard people complain about vrt before but never paid much attention to the issue I always thought a vrt payment was between a few hundred euro upto a max of around €4-€5K for a prestige saloon,suv etc ?.

I find it very annoying that revenue can charge extortionate rates like this and effectively hold people to ransom for the fee. So I can afford the car but I cant afford to pay a ridiculous vrt rate. Id walk before paying them that amount.

Ireland has become a bad place to live.

parsi

colm88 wrote: »

Shock.... outrage... disgust... gutted.... Joe Duffy ... didn't bother doing any planning ... oops..

A quick visit to the Revenue site would have enabled you to calculate the VRT due before you concluded the deal.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/online/vrt-calculator.html

marinbike

colm88 wrote: »

My brother who lives in the UK has been offered a job in Bahrain starting in Feb. He had been trying to sell his car for a few weeks to no avail. I was offered the car very cheap considering what he paid for it and decided to think about it over Christmas before making a decision. I didnt give much thought to the whole vrt issue although my brother did mention it would be quite expensive to import to Ireland, still I imagined it would be a couple of grand say €3-€4k max ?

Ive just checked the vrt online and its €12,493 euros. OMG :eek:

This is absolutely disgraceful, who decides these crazy prices ? Im shocked. Has anyone on here actually ever paid an excessive vrt payment like this ? this is wrong if not illegal ?.

Ive heard people complain about vrt before but never paid much attention to the issue I always thought a vrt payment was between a few hundred euro upto a max of around €4-€5K for a prestige saloon,suv etc ?.

I find it very annoying that revenue can charge extortionate rates like this and effectively hold people to ransom for the fee. So I can afford the car but I cant afford to pay a ridiculous vrt rate. Id walk before paying them that amount.

Ireland has become a bad place to live.

If you exchange your licence for a uk one, you can still drive the car over here without registering it. You'd be crazy registering it over here because the annual Road Tax rates in this country are among the highest in the EU. Plus you get no services for the road tax over here.

neilthefunkeone

Well its calculated on a percentage of the cars worth over here.. what car is it by the way?? Can you buy the similar car in ireland for the same price it is to buy in uk and vrt it? Prob not.. whats your complaint??

jor el

colm88 wrote: »

Ive just checked the vrt online and its €12,493 euros. OMG :eek:

This is absolutely disgraceful, who decides these crazy prices ? Im shocked. Has anyone on here actually ever paid an excessive vrt payment like this ? this is wrong if not illegal ?.

VRT is calculated as a percentage of the vehicle value, and varies by CO2 emissions. The rates are between 14 and 36%. If the value of the car is high, and/or the CO2 emissions are high, then the VRT will be high. How is it wrong or illegal to apply tax?

If it's too much to pay, don't buy the car.

marinbike wrote: »

If you exchange your licence for a uk one, you can still drive the car over here without registering it. You'd be crazy registering it over here because the annual Road Tax rates in this country are among the highest in the EU. Plus you get no services for the road tax over here.

You pay motor tax, not road tax. Having a UK licence does not make it OK to drive a UK registered car here. If you live here, you must register the car here, and pay appropriate taxes. What you're telling him to do is tax evasion, on both the VRT and subsequent motor tax. Both are illegal, and your car can be seized by customs and excise officers, if they so desire.

drunkmonkey

colm88 wrote: »

Has anyone on here actually ever paid an excessive vrt payment like this ? .

Yes I have, what you need to do is establish the current market value of the car here and then work out the correct vrt, you'll have to pay the VRT but then you can appeal it, and if your figures are correct you should get the difference back I did. It took about 3mts before they sent me the cheque.

What car are you looking at? year, model etc?

diamondtooth

VRT is basically an import tax but they can't call it that.

Could your brother come back here with the car first? If he has lived in the UK for over 1 year and has owned the car in the UK for over 6 months he won't have to pay VRT. Then he could register it here in his name and the sell it to you. Would be a fantastic saving if it could be done.

mcaul

If you're being quoted €12k + for VRT then the car must have a value of €35k+

If not, simply appeal the valuation.

If the car was registered in the UK from January 2008, then the new emmissions based VRT & road tax are applied. These are much fairer especailly for diesel cars & small cars. (BMW 520d = 16% + €160/ year road tax)

If the car was a pre 2008 car then it must be top of the range merc or landrover to have a value of €35k + these days considering the drop in secondhand values.

ejmaztec

Isn't it possible that, given car prices have dropped like a brick, the same year and model of car in question might cost a lot less here than the VRTd total cost?

parsi

ejmaztec wrote: »

Isn't it possible that, given car prices have dropped like a brick, the same year and model of car in question might cost a lot less here than the VRTd total cost?

Impossible. Absolutely everything is way cheaper in the UK. Absolutely everything.

nobeastsofierce

parsi wrote: »

Impossible. Absolutely everything is way cheaper in the UK. Absolutely everything.

The question was, is it cheaper, after factoring in the VRT?

parsi

I was being cynical..

nobeastsofierce

parsi wrote: »

I was being cynical..

Apologies

ejmaztec

parsi wrote: »

Impossible. Absolutely everything is way cheaper in the UK. Absolutely everything.

You might find something after you've prayed at the holy stump.

marinbike

jor el wrote: »

You pay motor tax, not road tax. Having a UK licence does not make it OK to drive a UK registered car here. If you live here, you must register the car here, and pay appropriate taxes. What you're telling him to do is tax evasion, on both the VRT and subsequent motor tax. Both are illegal, and your car can be seized by customs and excise officers, if they so desire.

call it motor tax so then, but its still a rip off. What you aren't aware of is that there are several ways around having to register a foreign Licensed vehicle in this country. The op can PM me and I'll fill him/her in on the ways of doing this. I don't want to do it over the open in case the Revenue guys get knowledge of it.

Quick note:

The European Union was set up to promote harmonization and also to promote free trade between the various member states. This also has a bearing on customs. The motor tax rates in the UK are set at affordable levels, over here they're not. Irish motor tax keeps increasing also.

If you go over to France, there are thousands of German and Spanish reg vehicles, some passers through, some living there. Also, if anyone holds EU MS Licence, they can exchange it for any other EU memer state Licence without having to do any driving test.

The car cannot be seized by customs/excise officers if the reasons I give are mentioned. (My brother used to work for Revenue).

jap gt

diamondtooth wrote: »

VRT is basically an import tax but they can't call it that.

Could your brother come back here with the car first? If he has lived in the UK for over 1 year and has owned the car in the UK for over 6 months he won't have to pay VRT. Then he could register it here in his name and the sell it to you. Would be a fantastic saving if it could be done.

cant be done like this, he has to have residence in ireland for a year and cant sell the car for a year once he gets here

colm88

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Well its calculated on a percentage of the cars worth over here.. what car is it by the way?? Can you buy the similar car in ireland for the same price it is to buy in uk and vrt it? Prob not.. whats your complaint??

Car is a 2009 Ford Focus RS, 2.5L, 3dr.

Cheapest for same model here in Ireland is €38,000.

"whats your complaint?" If you read my post properly you,ll see my complaint is having to pay €12K plus to vrt a car its ridiculous.

colm88

parsi wrote: »

A quick visit to the Revenue site would have enabled you to calculate the VRT due before you concluded the deal.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/online/vrt-calculator.html

Yes well thats quite obvious. The point I was making is the excessive vrt cost.

mcaul

colm88 wrote: »

Car is a 2009 Ford Focus RS, 2.5L, 3dr.

Cheapest for same model here in Ireland is €38,000.

"whats your complaint?" If you read my post properly you,ll see my complaint is having to pay €12K plus to vrt a car its ridiculous.

The car is a high performance car that has a high level of emissions thus its cosidered a polluter and the car tax system is based on polluter pays most.

So unfortunately the quote is probably correct and there's no way around it. - Some may tell you there are ways around it, but revenue & customs have fairly strong powers of seizure and it will be for you to prove your case rather than vice versa.

A better car is probably a new 2010 BMW 320d which would be cheaper and would have annual road tax of €150 and 60 mpg!

colm88

jor el wrote: »

VRT is calculated as a percentage of the vehicle value, and varies by CO2 emissions. The rates are between 14 and 36%. If the value of the car is high, and/or the CO2 emissions are high, then the VRT will be high. How is it wrong or illegal to apply tax?

(If it's too much to pay, don't buy the car) = Eh Its not the car thats expensive is it ?

(How is it wrong or illegal to apply tax? ) = We are already taxed on our earnings road tax and vat on goods and services.


VRT is very wrong there can be no justification in charging such extortionate fees to register a vehicle. The effect of VRT implemented by the 1992 Finance Act circumvented an EU prohibition on customs duty. Customs duty on vehicles disappeared on the 31st December 1992 and the following day a new tax called VRT replaced it. This was brought about by the action of the people we voted for, our Oireachtas and effectively overrode EU law. This it cannot do because EU law is supreme in terms of community matters and in the promotion of free movement of goods, fundamental freedoms under the Treaty of Rome and the implementation of the Single European Market.

gerrycollins

i read somewhere last year that the EU is taking ireland to the courts over this however as usual it will take years to sort it out

testicle

gerrycollins wrote: »

i read somewhere last year that the EU is taking ireland to the courts over this however as usual it will take years to sort it out

No they're not.

ejmaztec

colm88 wrote: »

jor el wrote: »

VRT is calculated as a percentage of the vehicle value, and varies by CO2 emissions. The rates are between 14 and 36%. If the value of the car is high, and/or the CO2 emissions are high, then the VRT will be high. How is it wrong or illegal to apply tax?

(If it's too much to pay, don't buy the car) = Eh Its not the car thats expensive is it ?

(How is it wrong or illegal to apply tax? ) = We are already taxed on our earnings road tax and vat on goods and services.


VRT is very wrong there can be no justification in charging such extortionate fees to register a vehicle. The effect of VRT implemented by the 1992 Finance Act circumvented an EU prohibition on customs duty. Customs duty on vehicles disappeared on the 31st December 1992 and the following day a new tax called VRT replaced it. This was brought about by the action of the people we voted for, our Oireachtas and effectively overrode EU law. This it cannot do because EU law is supreme in terms of community matters and in the promotion of free movement of goods, fundamental freedoms under the Treaty of Rome and the implementation of the Single European Market.

a.k.a. moving the goal-posts when it suits. I think that the customs men change their "duty" hats to "tax" hats for the purpose of chasing down vrt.

Isn't Ireland in breach of a string of EU laws? I seem to remember a mention some time ago of a number of at least 20 that it was being hauled over the coals for.

sandmen

Road tax will be crazy on it too?

astrofool

While VRT is awful, I think it's done the right thing here in keeping a high polluting car out of our country

Skopzz

astrofool wrote: »

While VRT is awful, I think it's done the right thing here in keeping a high polluting car out of our country

Small country with small minded people! I never remember seeing Ireland being near the same pollution scale as the US or China. Also, Irelands situation is unique because there is no proper public transport, you need a car to get around ireland

nobeastsofierce

Skopzz wrote: »

Small country with small minded people! I never remember seeing Ireland being near the same pollution scale as the US or China. Also, Irelands situation is unique because there is no proper public transport, you need a car to get around ireland

Bang out of order Skopzz and, if any, yours is the small minded opinio. We need to move away from outlandish, and unsustainable dependance on oil. Smaller engines are obviously the way to go. So what if we aren't in as much trouble as the aforementioned? You raise no point, nor argument at all, just petty insults

ejmaztec

ejmaztec wrote: »

You might find something after you've prayed at the holy stump.

Our prayers have been answered - praise be stump.

http://www.businessandleadership.com/news/article/18822/leadership/ep-mooney-cars-up-for-public-auction

EP Mooney cars up for public auction

07.01.2010
Over 250 cars from the collapsed car dealership EP Mooney will be put up for public auction later this month.
The cars are being sold off as part of the liquidation of the car dealership by Paul McCann of Grant Thornton, who was appointed liquidator of the company last year.
Some €3m of cars will be put up for unreserved public auction on Saturday, 16 January 2010.
The auction will take place at EP Mooney dealership on the Naas Road, Dublin 12.
Cars up for auction include BMW, Fiat, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Jaguar, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Suzuki, Volvo and Volkswagen.
Viewing times are from 9am–5pm on Thursday, 14 January and Friday, 15 January, and from 8am on Saturday, 16 January 2010.
For further information on the sale, visit www.eauctions.ie

astrofool

Skopzz wrote: »

Small country with small minded people! I never remember seeing Ireland being near the same pollution scale as the US or China. Also, Irelands situation is unique because there is no proper public transport, you need a car to get around ireland

If you want a high polluting car, then you have to be prepared to pay for it. The argument could be that the lowest polluting cars have 0% VRT, and increase it at the high end even more (or get the manufacturer to pay the cost directly, bumping up the sale price).

But this person sees money as the obstacle to getting his high polluting car, the tax has worked.

Skopzz

nobeastsofierce wrote: »

Bang out of order Skopzz and, if any, yours is the small minded opinio. We need to move away from outlandish, and unsustainable dependance on oil. Smaller engines are obviously the way to go. So what if we aren't in as much trouble as the aforementioned? You raise no point, nor argument at all, just petty insults

How am I being small minded?

If anything, I'm being liberal with my approach to wanting an open policy on car ownership. The current one is very restrictive, conservative and unsustainable. At the moment, people are double taxed on car ownership. Its also discouraging people from buying new cars.

Why tax both cars and gasoline? Maybe if the Government just taxed gasoline (and scrapped the high motor tax), that would deter people for doing more unnecessary travelling in their cars.

In France, theres no annual motor tax, they tax gasoline instead. Similarly, at the moment (mainly thanks to John Gormely), Ireland is being taxed deeper into recession with all these new environmental taxes/levies. He wants to double the plastic bag levy. The north has no plastic bag levy, their vrt and motor tax equivalent is much less than ours, their waste disposal and recycling charges are also less than ours.

si_guru

A side effect is that VRT also protect the 2nd hand market..

Of course we could bite the bullet, drop VRT. increase fuel duty. get loads of cheap cars from the UK.. see depreciation like the UK 50% after 8 months... put the queen in charge, etc..