Gordon Brown promises full body scanners at UK airports

digme

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has given the go-ahead for full body scanners to be introduced at Britain's airports.
BAA, which runs six UK airports, said it would now install the machines "as soon as is practical" at Heathrow.



Source the BBC.

That was fast.

B0X

I don't see a problem with it anyway. Were'nt there plans to introduce these before the recent attempted boming?

nyarlothothep

Its an utterly gross invasion of privacy riding on the back of an ends justifying the means mentality. A physical search is less humiliating, this is the machine both mechanical and social invading your privacy. Whats even more ridiculous is that you cannot eliminate risk, life is risk, I can't see why people accept this kind of crap. Its paranoia on their part, profiling was scientifically shown to be inadequate ie you can't catch terrorists with it yet you still have face scanners.

Run_to_da_hills

Thread already on this subject.

B0X wrote: »

I don't see a problem with it anyway. Were'nt there plans to introduce these before the recent attempted boming?

Edit: I don't see a problem with it anyway. Were'nt there plans to introduce these before the recent staged attempted boming?.

Big briblem if these scanners are of the "backscatter" variety, you will be glowing in the dark if you are a frequent flyer. :eek:

Pregnant woman would be soon advised by their gp's to take the boat. :eek:

Men should cover their private parts with lead going through these machines as they pose the risk of testicular cancer :eek:

Gillo

Facing the choice of getting blown up mid-air or letting someone see me "naked" for a few seconds, is the body scan really a problem. Bear in mind security staff are likely to see thousands of bodies each they very soon they'll merely be shapes and not individual bodies as far as they are concerned.

indough

i dont think pregnant womemn aer really supposed to fly anyway

will this thing show you as a naked figure or will it be more like the thing from total recall?

Run_to_da_hills

indough wrote: »

i dont think pregnant womemn aer really supposed to fly anyway

will this thing show you as a naked figure or will it be more like the thing from total recall?

It would depends on the stage of pregnancy, .

mysterious

Next step after this would logically be go to the airport naked with see through bags. If that is too embarrassing or why not bring any baggage or travel at all. This will eliminate the terrorist threat. It seems everyone is either a "terrorist" or a "terrorist target" now. Hmmm strange that. I wonder why.

This is just pretentious, inane and ridicoulous.

Is it because there is a "big bad terrorist" out to get us, or there is some reason over the years for continuous tighter controls of your whereabo
uts and what your wearing and what you do on your travels.

uprising

Good thinking mysterious, maybe they'll have a fastpass if we turn up in the nip.
Anyway these scanners will do nothing in way of prevention, anybody whose ever been locked up know's how to get what they want into prison despite the fact you must strip in front of screws. I've heard of a fella getting 3 mobile phones into prison in the one sitting, a female terrorist can double up, what was stuffed in your mans jocks could easily be trebled/quadrupled by a female terrorist without much effort and render this latest technology worse than useless as it gives a false sense of security where none exists.

EDIT:
not that I believe the bull****, I wrote that for the sheeple, I used the word terrorist as a marker.

Yitzhak Rabin

uprising wrote: »

not that I believe the bull****, I wrote that for the sheeple, I used the word terrorist as a marker.

Thanks very much!!

uprising

yekahs wrote: »

Thanks very much!!

your welcom shakeyjoe

SLUSK

Gillo wrote: »

Facing the choice of getting blown up mid-air or letting someone see me "naked" for a few seconds, is the body scan really a problem. Bear in mind security staff are likely to see thousands of bodies each they very soon they'll merely be shapes and not individual bodies as far as they are concerned.

People willing to give up their freedoms to gain security will get neither freedom or security and they also don't deserve either of those things.

humanji

In fairness, you're not giving up your freedom with this. This scanner isn't really doing anything new, Airport security can strip search anyone that goes through. This just makes it economically viable.

That said, it's still absolutely ridiculous. It's just another case of a politician pandering to their audience with the first option that comes to hand. They need to overhaul airport security completely and not just throw in the latest unproven technology just because it sounds fancy.

Here's a link to the BBC article btw: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8438355.stm

Gillo

SLUSK wrote: »

People willing to give up their freedoms to gain security will get neither freedom or security and they also don't deserve either of those things.

Ok, I agree you are giving up a certain amount of freedom, but to who exactly the goverment trying to stop terrorist attacks or the terrorists causing the attacks. It's a fact of life that terror attacks do occur, perhaps you can suggest a better method or stopping / detering these attacks.

By that logic, why give up the freedom of entering your home as you want but putting locks & alarms on it to stop other people entering it, hey just get rid of the security system you have on your house.

Look I understand some people don't like the idea of a stranger effectively seeing them naked, my point is; is it big price to pay of the added security? I don't think it is.

nyarlothothep

humanji wrote: »

In fairness, you're not giving up your freedom with this. This scanner isn't really doing anything new, Airport security can strip search anyone that goes through. This just makes it economically viable.

That said, it's still absolutely ridiculous. It's just another case of a politician pandering to their audience with the first option that comes to hand. They need to overhaul airport security completely and not just throw in the latest unproven technology just because it sounds fancy.

Here's a link to the BBC article btw: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8438355.stm

except this is even more dehumanizing because its a machine! But not only that, this would be for every individual to go through eventually and it is an assault on ones dignity. I can imagine a significant amount of people being p1ssed at this, and isn't it soon going to be everyone that will be scanned? Instead of these ridiculously draconian security measures, why not take a look at changing Western foreign policy, which has a lot to do in my view with the rise of Islamic extremism. If terrorists are dissuaded from attacking planes, they'll find other avenues to express their fury. There is no way to protect against risk, its fundamental. But one way to reduce it is imo to identify the cause of why there is such hatred towards the West. I'm not an apologist for Islamic fundamentalism but I think a better way to preventing things like this is to look at where they come from, and if history101 has any shred of credibility in it its that if you antagonize a religion or people belonging to a religion/state you're only going to exacerbate the problem. Heres a conspiracy for you, maybe meddling in the me has a dual function, securing Western influence and control of oil reserves while at the same time fuelling Islamic fundamentalism in order to curb civil liberties, first at the airports, then the hubs of other modes of transport as they become prone to attack and eventually society itself.

FairFilly

I think its just one of many more procedures that will be rolled out ,to help provide security ,catch terrorists & to show other nations that most governments are trying to prevent the same problems.
However the truth behind the recent scare was that 3 times the culprit was flagged by profiling/security measures ,but no action was taken beforehand .
Certainly some freedom has been lost & more will possibly have to follow . The lack of Correct response for the latest incident would equate to having these new scanners in use, but just ignoring the alarm each time it went off .Then go out & install ever new methods .

humanji

nyarlothothep wrote: »

except this is even more dehumanizing because its a machine! But not only that, this would be for every individual to go through eventually and it is an assault on ones dignity. I can imagine a significant amount of people being p1ssed at this, and isn't it soon going to be everyone that will be scanned? Instead of these ridiculously draconian security measures, why not take a look at changing Western foreign policy, which has a lot to do in my view with the rise of Islamic extremism. If terrorists are dissuaded from attacking planes, they'll find other avenues to express their fury. There is no way to protect against risk, its fundamental. But one way to reduce it is imo to identify the cause of why there is such hatred towards the West. I'm not an apologist for Islamic fundamentalism but I think a better way to preventing things like this is to look at where they come from, and if history101 has any shred of credibility in it its that if you antagonize a religion or people belonging to a religion/state you're only going to exacerbate the problem. Heres a conspiracy for you, maybe meddling in the me has a dual function, securing Western influence and control of oil reserves while at the same time fuelling Islamic fundamentalism in order to curb civil liberties, first at the airports, then the hubs of other modes of transport as they become prone to attack and eventually society itself.

I don't think it's dehumanising at all. Would you feel violated after an MRI? It's not like they take your picture then show it to everyone around you and ask them to rate it. And it's less of an assault against ones dignity than a full strip search, which is one sure way of finding any hidden devices. And since the current system doesn't work they thought they'd find a middle ground instead of finding out why the current system doesn't work. I do think it's a just another way politicians can fob off responsibility onto others while looking like they're doing something, but I think people are over reacting to it. If they don't like it, they don't have to go use the airport. To paraphrase a point above, would you complain that I put a lock on my door to keep my own house safe?

It'd be great if the powers that be could find some peaceful way to stop all the trouble so that these security devices weren't needed, but it's no longer a simple case of sitting down and airing out greivances. Islamic extremists want everyone who isn't them to either be wiped from the earth or to submit completely to them. There's no middle-ground. More moderate groups may be able to persuade some to not resort to violence, but there will always be a threat of random attacks around the world. Humans just don't get on that well with each other.

nyarlothothep

humanji wrote: »

I don't think it's dehumanising at all. Would you feel violated after an MRI? It's not like they take your picture then show it to everyone around you and ask them to rate it. And it's less of an assault against ones dignity than a full strip search, which is one sure way of finding any hidden devices. And since the current system doesn't work they thought they'd find a middle ground instead of finding out why the current system doesn't work. I do think it's a just another way politicians can fob off responsibility onto others while looking like they're doing something, but I think people are over reacting to it. If they don't like it, they don't have to go use the airport. To paraphrase a point above, would you complain that I put a lock on my door to keep my own house safe?

It'd be great if the powers that be could find some peaceful way to stop all the trouble so that these security devices weren't needed, but it's no longer a simple case of sitting down and airing out greivances. Islamic extremists want everyone who isn't them to either be wiped from the earth or to submit completely to them. There's no middle-ground. More moderate groups may be able to persuade some to not resort to violence, but there will always be a threat of random attacks around the world. Humans just don't get on that well with each other.

MRI scans and security at airports constitute two different contexts and are not comparable. Not everyone undergoes a full strip search, just people who can be reasonably expected (at least as the principle determines) to be suspicious. What would happen if they put draconian security measures in place in every crevice of society? I could choose not to leave my house, I could choose to go somewhere else, but the fact that I can choose between limited options of little value in these circumstances does not indicate that I have any real choice. For many air travel is the best and only realistic way to get from country to country. I think rather than the plebs, I mean people, taking it up the proverbial, its time to boycott airports or pressurize governments to the same effect if these measures are put in place. I agree, extremists have no right to dictate their beliefs to anyone but lets see whats causing them to become extreme in the first place hmmm?

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

I don't think it's dehumanising at all. Would you feel violated after an MRI? It's not like they take your picture then show it to everyone around you and ask them to rate it. And it's less of an assault against ones dignity than a full strip search, which is one sure way of finding any hidden devices. And since the current system doesn't work they thought they'd find a middle ground instead of finding out why the current system doesn't work. I do think it's a just another way politicians can fob off responsibility onto others while looking like they're doing something, but I think people are over reacting to it. If they don't like it, they don't have to go use the airport. To paraphrase a point above, would you complain that I put a lock on my door to keep my own house safe?

It'd be great if the powers that be could find some peaceful way to stop all the trouble so that these security devices weren't needed, but it's no longer a simple case of sitting down and airing out greivances. Islamic extremists want everyone who isn't them to either be wiped from the earth or to submit completely to them. There's no middle-ground. More moderate groups may be able to persuade some to not resort to violence, but there will always be a threat of random attacks around the world. Humans just don't get on that well with each other.

There is no proof Islamic extremists did the attacks, only hearsay from our "loving governments"


And its more of an exuse to have these controls than actual good reason. People are not falling " for the big bad terrorists anymore"


I mean they can't find the "most destructive supposedly terrorists" But CBS can get can get tapes of him every time the new series of Osama bin laden tapes hit the T.V screens. It's absaloutley ridicoulous. Everytime the West needs to invade or create a war. They wave the boogy man.

We are not falling for it and I'm certainly not.