How do you colour balance...?

smelltheglove

So after a lovely wedding yesterday I am nearing the end of my processing. I'm looking forward to adjusting my colour balance as my always detested final step:mad:. So how do you all do it?

Now in unchanging circumstances I am happy to set my colour temperature on camera when possible but even when I do this sometimes my eye may be a bit off. During weddings the colour tempeatue can change so often, outside the brides house, inside the house, inside the bridal car, outside the church, various different light sources in the church and so on and so on. So I generally trust my auto wb and deal with the colour later, although I am hating it more and more which each go.

I am not fond of the photo shop colour balance at all, neither in cs or in camera raw, my favourite has always been paint shop pro for adjusting colour balance however it is time consuming and I would like to save time whereever possible without losing quality. Are there better applications for this or is there a better approach to it?

nilhg

I have a grey card, if I'm at all doubtful of the lighting I'll take a shot of it first, childs play to set the white balance in PP afterwards then once you've shot in RAW.

TBH I always correct the WB first, if I don't, I'd find it impossible to change anything to do with colour in PP knowing that changing the WB later would undo everything.

sineadw

Not on colour balance, but workflow. Something I've learned in class this year and would have to 100% agree with is that sharpening should always be your final PP step before output. You get a lot less artifacts that way...

/unasked-for-advice

smelltheglove

sineadw wrote: »

Not on colour balance, but workflow. Something I've learned in class this year and would have to 100% agree with is that sharpening should always be your final PP step before output. You get a lot less artifacts that way...

/unasked-for-advice

Good advice Sinead, it is my last action before seeing to colour balance. I guess I do the colour last as I hate it so much.

The grey card, that was one thing I was considering although is it something that is handy enough to do when under pressure of time?

DaireQuinlan

sineadw wrote: »

Not on colour balance, but workflow. Something I've learned in class this year and would have to 100% agree with is that sharpening should always be your final PP step before output. You get a lot less artifacts that way...

I dunno, when I'n scanning fine grained film, particularly on my flatbed, I always do a post-input sharpening pass, at anything between 50-100% 2-5 radius and a similar threshold. Then if i'm resizing for a particular print size I'll resize and do another sharpening pass if I think it's neccessary.

As regards the OP question, yeah it's a complete PITA. Try colour balancing negative scans sometimes, there's no frame of reference at all and the base will change colour radically between types of film and sometimes from roll to roll of the same type I keep on meaning to shoot a colour chart as the first shot on every roll to at least eliminate some of the variables.

soccerc

Grey Card or more precisely the Lastolite Ezybalanceand save as a preset. Easy then to make minor adjustments in PP.

Agree with Sineadw, the final act should be sharpening.

WedPhoto

i don't think you really have to do each photograph individually (unless your light changes dramatically with each shot).

sort out the good from the not so good images first - that should cut down on the number of images. than i find that usually there's a few shots in the same location (i.e. same light ) that need the same amount of correcting so you do a few at a time (for me ACR works a treat, as i don't even have to open the images in photoshop, just save as dng, tiff, jpg....)

the best solution is to try and keep an eye on the white balance and get it right when shooting, but i know that that's not always easy at a wedding.

nilhg

smelltheglove wrote: »

Good advice Sinead, it is my last action before seeing to colour balance. I guess I do the colour last as I hate it so much.

The grey card, that was one thing I was considering although is it something that is handy enough to do when under pressure of time?

You're answering your own question there aren't you?

If you're shooting in RAW take a picture of the grey card whenever the light changes, then in PP your first job is to do a batch WB on those pictures, between shooting the picture of the card and setting the WB on the pictures shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.

Paulw

Colour balance would generally be one of the first things I do (sharpening the last).

I normally find a white (or white-ish) object early on, in the scene, and use that to balance from. I know the camera looks for 18% grey, but you can work back from that.

I think you also get to know your camera, and how it reads white. It's a learning process.

A grey card can be very useful. I also believe (from podcasts) that the top lid from Pringles is also a close one for balance too.

smelltheglove

nilhg wrote: »

You're answering your own question there aren't you?

If you're shooting in RAW take a picture of the grey card whenever the light changes, then in PP your first job is to do a batch WB on those pictures, between shooting the picture of the card and setting the WB on the pictures shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.

Ok so, since I have never used a grey card before, re a batch white balance, do you do this in PS? I used to do each photo individually in Paint Shop Pro whereas now I have transferred to PS I knwo how to do everything I need but I have never attempted a batch wb. Do you do this in camera raw or do you do it as a batch process? I dont like the balancing in photoshop but maybe thats since I have something else I am more used to.

As with ACR I think this may have been the application Guy Gowan mentioned in his workflow seminar, I may look into that.

I have been aware of the grey card for a long time but when I am shooting a wedding I want to cut out as much hassle on the day as possible, if this is an easy solution I may try it, I am open to anything that wont take up too much time on the day. I just really want to see what options have been tried and tested here and what is the most popular.

smelltheglove

Paulw wrote: »

A grey card can be very useful. I also believe (from podcasts) that the top lid from Pringles is also a close one for balance too.

Lol, I wouldnt mind, I have a lovely pack of salt & vinegar pringles here to munch on while I work:D

melekalikimaka

light room ftw with batchwork for me

GavinZac

I do the white balance on the first photo in UFRAW, make whatever adjustments, save it, and the next photo will have those settings. If something changes, I change it, it remembers it again. You can do it in batch but I prefer quickly going through them.

ThOnda

Grey card at the beginning of the shoot, then batch balance in LR. If no grey card, there is pick tool in LR to select neutral tones.
Sharpening is the last, if I remember to do that ;-)

smelltheglove

Thanks guys, I dont often use lightroom, in fact I dont think I have touched it in 6 months so will have a look when this batch is completed, let you know what I think.

punchdrunk

try a white balance lens cap maybe?

soccerc

Paulw wrote: »

I also believe (from podcasts) that the top lid from Pringles is also a close one for balance too.

Have Pringles not moved to a clear cover from the old opaque one of the past?

Valentia

smelltheglove wrote: »

Thanks guys, I dont often use lightroom, in fact I dont think I have touched it in 6 months so will have a look when this batch is completed, let you know what I think.

To be honest if you are a professional photographer and you need to batch process (white balance or otherwise) you really need to be using Lightroom or something that can do similar. I'm amazed you have never used a grey card?

smelltheglove

Valentia wrote: »

To be honest if you are a professional photographer and you need to batch process (white balance or otherwise) you really need to be using Lightroom or something that can do similar. I'm amazed you have never used a grey card?

You see I have always done it individually before through Paint Shop Pro. I have only moved to Photo Shop this year, havin used Paint Shop for over 10 years so I was comfortable with the colour balance there. However since moving to Photoshop and having a higher volume of shots to work with I have reverted to actions so I am merely looking for something quicker.

I still believe the paint shop colour balance to be the best I have tried so far, it is just a bit tedious to do individually since the images are otherwise processed in photoshop now.

I have never felt the need to use a grey card either Valentia, as above I could always look after this easily through my processing but since changeover it is a much slower process. Myself, Paul and Dodgkeeper shot together a few months back and Dodgy used his grey card, I tried it but didnt use it really as I was able to set my temperature on camera and did not need to worry about changing the colour balance in processing as I had gotten it spot on first go so even though having an image with a grey card I have never used it.

I don't think professionalism comes into it at all either, at the end of the day when anyone in any profession changes suppliers, which paint shop and photoshop are, they need to acquaint themselves with the suppliers methods which is merely what I am doing here.

nilhg

smelltheglove wrote: »

You see I have always done it individually before through Paint Shop Pro. I have only moved to Photo Shop this year, havin used Paint Shop for over 10 years so I was comfortable with the colour balance there. However since moving to Photoshop and having a higher volume of shots to work with I have reverted to actions so I am merely looking for something quicker.

I still believe the paint shop colour balance to be the best I have tried so far, it is just a bit tedious to do individually since the images are otherwise processed in photoshop now.

I have never felt the need to use a grey card either Valentia, as above I could always look after this easily through my processing but since changeover it is a much slower process. Myself, Paul and Dodgkeeper shot together a few months back and Dodgy used his grey card, I tried it but didnt use it really as I was able to set my temperature on camera and did not need to worry about changing the colour balance in processing as I had gotten it spot on first go so even though having an image with a grey card I have never used it.

I don't think professionalism comes into it at all either, at the end of the day when anyone in any profession changes suppliers, which paint shop and photoshop are, they need to acquaint themselves with the suppliers methods which is merely what I am doing here.

Two observations:
If you're shooting RAW, setting the WB on camera is irrelevant, really it's a job best left for PP, as you appear to be finding.

If your workload is increasing so much so that you're finding the PP side to be a burden then you really need to look at your tools (software) and the way that you use them (workflow) LightRoom is designed to do the stuff you want easily and quickly, there's a load of video tutorials out there, I think you should try it seriously for a week, if you don't like it go back and re work what you are doing now.

smelltheglove

nilhg wrote: »

If your workload is increasing so much so that you're finding the PP side to be a burden then you really need to look at your tools (software) and the way that you use them (workflow) LightRoom is designed to do the stuff you want easily and quickly, there's a load of video tutorials out there, I think you should try it seriously for a week, if you don't like it go back and re work what you are doing now.

Good point. I attended the Guy Gowan workflow seminar to aid in this last August/September, this is when I reverted to photoshop. Using his techniques I have just finished editing a full wedding which I covered yesterday, previously I would have spent up to 3 days. I find this has saved me a huge amount of time, but because my previous workflow in paint shop included wb along with the rest of pp I am now finding it more awkward to have to go and open another application and each image individually.

I will try the lightroom colour balance tomorrow and see how I go with it. Since photoshop is completely actions for me its handy enough so if I can batch in lightroom rather than individually as I am now it will save me a lot of time. I do shoot in RAW and I was always advised previously to do wb in pp another reason for not bothering with the grey card before.

Ghost Train

I've found it awkward to do colour balance in photoshop (excluding auto colour tool), the colour balance tool in photoshop, with the three sliders and also the mid tone, shadow, highlight options just seems bad to me. Are you expected to balance the highlights and shadows etc separately which makes it nine separate adjustments for three channels? I like in other packages where you have the colour wheel and you can shift the balance quickly by making the one adjustment

I'll normally use the curves tool and adjust the red green and blue channels to get the balance I want, if theres no better way

smelltheglove

Ghost Train wrote: »

I'll normally use the curves tool and adjust the red green and blue channels to get the balance I want, if there no better way

Also a good method but would take too much time for me. If you are only doing individual images I would recommend Paint Shop Pro

Covey

One oberservation : White balance is only a small component of colour balance.

Ghost Train

smelltheglove wrote: »

Also a good method but would take too much time for me. If you are only doing individual images I would recommend Paint Shop Pro

90% of the time I use irfanview with smartcurves plugin, I'll do llevels, gamma, contrast, saturation etc through curves so i'm used to the way I do it and never have too many photos, but have found it a bit strange the way photoshop does it... have searched through the tools menu a while back because I thought maybe I overlooked it

oshead

smelltheglove wrote: »

I do shoot in RAW and I was always advised previously to do wb in pp another reason for not bothering with the grey card before.

How to use a grey card is... Take a photo of the card. (I use Whibal which I highly recommend). As long as the lighting conditions and WB settings on the camera stay the same, open it in (Lightroom) PP and take a reading from the card image. You can then apply this colour balance to all your images from the same session. It's very simple and easy to do and..... is one the first things you learn when doing digital photography.

If you're shooting RAW, what program did/are you using to manage and alter those files. Bridge and ACR? If so, you don't need Lightroom.

Just another thing, for photoshop, If you want to color balance, there's a few ways to do it using curves or levels. But for simplicity, just record an action of creating a levels layer and click the auto setting and you'll get a fairly to very good balance. You can then incorporate that into your workslow...

Edit.... What/Why are you using PaintShop Pro?

stcstc

as covey said white balance is only a small part of colour balance.

One thing i like the idea of is a very simple and repeatable workflow.

the tendancy from software compnaies is to offer lot and lots of applications that all have small differences.

as steve said, if its white balance your wanting to start with, you can do batch adjustments in ACR.

lightroom is a very good package, but not sure if its needed in this instance.



most importantly though

colour balance should be first, if not, you will undo things you do in post processing

elven

smelltheglove wrote: »

As with ACR I think this may have been the application Guy Gowan mentioned in his workflow seminar, I may look into that.

If you're shooting in RAW and using photoshop, um, you're already using ACR. That's the thing that pops up before you see the image in photoshop, looks like this and that's where you would be wanting to set your white balance, not after you've opened the image in photoshop.

smelltheglove

elven wrote: »

If you're shooting in RAW and using photoshop, um, you're already using ACR. That's the thing that pops up before you see the image in photoshop, looks like this and that's where you would be wanting to set your white balance, not after you've opened the image in photoshop.

Sorry I always call it camera raw, not up on all the abreviations. So itwasnt acr then.


Oshead I started using it when I was 17 before I had a digital camera. With each new release I learnt more so I stayed with it, comfort I suppose.

Borderfox

Colour balance first, the 1d bodies are fairly accurate and most of what they capture is great first time, the 5d needs some adjustment and this is set up already in photoshop.

I find if I dont colour balance (as stsc says above) everything else will be out if you do it last.

For workflow a Wedding takes me one full day approx 10-12 hours to process. All the cards are uploaded on the day and the selection for the first half of the day is made during dinner and then the second half on my pp day. Adobe Bridge and Photoshop are the weapons of choice

smelltheglove

Thanks Border, I know everyone is saying colour first and trust me this was my way until transferring to photoshop. Anyway I just completed this weeks wedding in camera raw as lightroom is on the other computer and would have been a bit of a rigmaroll transferring just to do the colour.

Anyway I did this in batches of location, wasnt too bad although since I had used auto balance there were still a few little differences here and there. So I will go back to choosing my own wb on camera and then I may have an easier job batch balancing in camera raw after that. Its such a small process but probably the most important part of processing there is so thanks guys for all letting me know how you do it, great help and hopefully will get on top of it in camera raw next time so I can do it all together in one program.

eas

i say BS to grey cards + expodisc sorcery.

Set your WB to cloudy, shoot away sort it out in ACR / Bridge / LR after.
Using the "right" color temperature is too cold for me anyway.

(advice not valid for film)

Borderfox

great advice Eas unless you shoot jpeg, get it right in camera saves a lot of hassle later even in raw.

oshead

eas wrote: »

i say BS to grey cards + expodisc sorcery.

Set your WB to cloudy, shoot away sort it out in ACR / Bridge / LR after.
Using the "right" color temperature is too cold for me anyway.

(advice not valid for film)

I agree to a certain extent. I think the main thing to make sure while you are shooting, is that you make a decision regarding WB. Be it grey card, setting it to cloudy or dialing in a number. To have a known value on the WB is the way to go IMO. I use the 40D and don't trust the Auto WB setting, so i take it out and pick somethign close to what i think. Though, it's not that important. Ball park with WB makes it easier to set it whatever you want it to be later.

Maybe with the higher end cameras, as Keith already mentioned, you can rely on the auto setting. But i don't have one so i can't really comment further on this.

Another thing, white balance or colour balance is purely an aesthetics thing when photographing people. Warmer looks nice and dosn't have to be too accurate. As long as skin tones look nice and natural and healthy, thats all that matters........ In General.

For product, interior and the like, i believe it's wise to use a product like a gretag to produce consistantly correct colours.

Anyway........ Just my 2 cents.