Owen Coyle & Bolton

kagni

My first time posting in this forum but as a Bolton supporter I'm delighted that Coyle is coming to us (assuming the deal goes through).
I have some sympathy for the Burnley fans, Bolton were treated far similarly by Allardyce at the end of his time, but their whining is laughable considering they took Coyle from St. Johnstone on the eve of a Cup final.
As for comparisons between Bolton and Burnley, Bolton are obviously a more successful club in recent times, and by most measures a bigger club. Nine consecutive years of top flight football and two european qualifications shows the success of recent years. Most Bolton fans don't realistically expect a repeat of that anytime soon and survival would be a decent result this season. I believe the squad is capable of staying up, they have two games in hand over most rivals, a win in one of those would put them in 12th place.

If people think he will get the same treatment as Megson they are wrong. Megson's negative football was just about tolerated as long as he was delivering the results, this came with survival the first year, modest improvement the second, but this season has been awful and his negativity has really been punished. He was never wanted by the fans (can anyone with any knowledge of his management history honestly say they would want him as the manager of their club) so when things started to go wrong he was always going to be turned on. He also has been well backed by the board but has spent erratically, he broke the club record for Elmander and it hasn't worked, he spent a large chunk of our summer budget on unnecessary cover for both fullbacks and our defence is worse than ever.

Financially Bolton have debt but it isn't unmanageable and they have additional financial backing from Eddie Davies so Coyle will have a bigger budget than Burnley. The stadium is way ahead of Burnley's and there is a state of the art youth academy.

Also I'm sure Coyle has realised that, without significant investment, he would struggle to keep Burnley up.

Finally, anyone remember Hull's first half of last season? Phil Brown was the toast of the Premiership but that didn't last long. Maybe Coyle has realised that his stock is now at it's highest and it's time to cash in.

Quint

kagni wrote: »

My first time posting in this forum but as a Bolton supporter I'm delighted that Coyle is coming to us (assuming the deal goes through).
I have some sympathy for the Burnley fans, Bolton were treated far similarly by Allardyce at the end of his time, but their whining is laughable considering they took Coyle from St. Johnstone on the eve of a Cup final.
As for comparisons between Bolton and Burnley, Bolton are obviously a more successful club in recent times, and by most measures a bigger club. Nine consecutive years of top flight football and two european qualifications shows the success of recent years. Most Bolton fans don't realistically expect a repeat of that anytime soon and survival would be a decent result this season. I believe the squad is capable of staying up, they have two games in hand over most rivals, a win in one of those would put them in 12th place.

If people think he will get the same treatment as Megson they are wrong. Megson's negative football was just about tolerated as long as he was delivering the results, this came with survival the first year, modest improvement the second, but this season has been awful and his negativity has really been punished. He was never wanted by the fans (can anyone with any knowledge of his management history honestly say they would want him as the manager of their club) so when things started to go wrong he was always going to be turned on. He also has been well backed by the board but has spent erratically, he broke the club record for Elmander and it hasn't worked, he spent a large chunk of our summer budget on unnecessary cover for both fullbacks and our defence is worse than ever.

Financially Bolton have debt but it isn't unmanageable and they have additional financial backing from Eddie Davies so Coyle will have a bigger budget than Burnley. The stadium is way ahead of Burnley's and there is a state of the art youth academy.

Also I'm sure Coyle has realised that, without significant investment, he would struggle to keep Burnley up.

Finally, anyone remember Hull's first half of last season? Phil Brown was the toast of the Premiership but that didn't last long. Maybe Coyle has realised that his stock is now at it's highest and it's time to cash in.

Yeah, that sums it up. Much better chance of Bolton staying up, very good move by Coyle IMHO. Burnley were happy to let Bolton talk to Coyle too. Are their fans angry with their board?

LuckyLloyd

kagni wrote: »

My first time posting in this forum but as a Bolton supporter I'm delighted that Coyle is coming to us (assuming the deal goes through).
I have some sympathy for the Burnley fans, Bolton were treated far similarly by Allardyce at the end of his time, but their whining is laughable considering they took Coyle from St. Johnstone on the eve of a Cup final.
As for comparisons between Bolton and Burnley, Bolton are obviously a more successful club in recent times, and by most measures a bigger club. Nine consecutive years of top flight football and two european qualifications shows the success of recent years. Most Bolton fans don't realistically expect a repeat of that anytime soon and survival would be a decent result this season. I believe the squad is capable of staying up, they have two games in hand over most rivals, a win in one of those would put them in 12th place.

If people think he will get the same treatment as Megson they are wrong. Megson's negative football was just about tolerated as long as he was delivering the results, this came with survival the first year, modest improvement the second, but this season has been awful and his negativity has really been punished. He was never wanted by the fans (can anyone with any knowledge of his management history honestly say they would want him as the manager of their club) so when things started to go wrong he was always going to be turned on. He also has been well backed by the board but has spent erratically, he broke the club record for Elmander and it hasn't worked, he spent a large chunk of our summer budget on unnecessary cover for both fullbacks and our defence is worse than ever.

Financially Bolton have debt but it isn't unmanageable and they have additional financial backing from Eddie Davies so Coyle will have a bigger budget than Burnley. The stadium is way ahead of Burnley's and there is a state of the art youth academy.

Also I'm sure Coyle has realised that, without significant investment, he would struggle to keep Burnley up.

Finally, anyone remember Hull's first half of last season? Phil Brown was the toast of the Premiership but that didn't last long. Maybe Coyle has realised that his stock is now at it's highest and it's time to cash in.

Nice contribution, interesting to get the thoughts from a Bolton perspective.

mike65

Coyle move completed.

kagni

Yeah, finally!!! Was beginning to wonder if it was never going to happen.

alias no.9

I’m finding it harder to remember a managerial move that has drawn as much comment from fans of other clubs, from people who would barely even acknowledge the existence of Bolton and Burnley most of the time. It’s not just here on boards, it seems to be across the internet and media. I feel I have to add a little perspective to this.

Owen Coyle may have been under contract but Gartside was given permission to talk to Coyle by Burnley chairman Barry Kilby. It was Phil Gartside who recommended him to Burnley in the first place so they knew he was held in high regard. Did they think they were going to be discussing the weather?

The appointment of Brian Laws as Coyles replacement could be as much a reflection of Burnleys budget, or lack thereof, for buying another manager out of their current contract, as much as anything else. They’ve stated that they chose him because he came out top in their ‘Success to Budget’ analysis. However, all of the other names linked with the job were under contract elsewhere, Sean O’Driscoll (Doncaster Rovers), Lee Clarke (Huddersfield Town), Simon Grayson (Leeds United), Paul Lambert (Norwich City), Ian Holloway (Blackpool). If they couldn’t afford the compensation required to bring in any of those even after getting a 7 figure settlement from Bolton, think how little would have available for Coyle to bring in players. Don’t forget too that Coyle was also under contract at St.Johnstone when Burnley approached him, leaving St.Johnstone managerless a week before they played in the Challenge Cup Final. Why was it ok for them to make that move but not for Bolton?

Similarly, other clubs don’t limit themselves to free agents when looking for new managers
- Graham Souness was under contract at Blackburn when Newcastle came calling
- Blackburn later lost Mark Hughes to Man City
- Harry Redknapp poached by Spurs mid season from Portsmouth
- David Moyes at Preston when Everton came
Those are just some examples. It’s not a new thing either, go back to Coyles playing career at Bolton when he scored in the Play Off final for them to get promoted to the Premiership in 1995, the then Bolton Manager, Bruce Rioch (remember him?), was poached by Arsenal. Just some examples, where was the outrage? Are unfashionable teams to only ever approach out of work managers while media darlings do what they like?

As for Megson, I have no idea where the sympathy comes from. Fair enough, when he took over the only target was survival. The problem was that in subsequent seasons Megson never showed any ambition beyond survival, everything was negative, nicking a draw at home was as much as he seemed to want. If Big Sams team were to be accused of long ball, it would be because they were trying to get the ball into the opposition box to score a goal with mobile midfielders trying to get forward to join the attack (think of all the goals from midfielders back then), or at the very least they were trying to pin the opposition back in their own half where they couldn’t score. Megsons team on the other hand were doing it just to kick the ball out of their half, little support from his oft preferred midfield partnership of McCann and Muamba. The team are capable of much more and have showed glimpses of that on occasion so one must conclude that they were following orders. To those who think that the style of football was acceptable to Bolton fans, attendances dropped 25% under Megsons stewardship.
Megson did however make some good signings, Cahill, Lee, Taylor, Steinsson and Klasnic but in particular, I think Elmander will be a revelation under Coyle. He also made some inexplicable signings, Steinsson was one of the best and most consistent performers last year yet Sam Ricketts, who struggled to hold down a spot at Hull was brought in during the summer (for a fee) and given game time ahead of Steinsson this season. Similarly, Paul Robinson was no loss to the West Brom squad, yet Megson deemed him worthy of a transfer fee.

To those who deride Bolton as being a sideways move, do some research and come back when you can name the only premiership team outside the ‘Top 4’ of the 00’s to finish in the top 10 in 4 successive seasons during the 00’s? I’ll give you a clue, it’s not Villa, nor Spurs, Everton or even Newcastle. Fair enough the league has moved on since then but take Fulham as an example of how a new manager can revitalise a club without wholesale changes to the playing staff. Big Sam left because the chairman refused in January 2007 to match his ambition with the funds to challenge for a Champions League spot. Laugh you may but they were 3rd in the table going into the new year in 2007. The remainder of that season was poor because Big Sam had checked out; he made his decision to go because he’d brought them as far the ambitions of the Chairman would let him. Despite this, he left a team that qualified for Europe through league position.
During Big Sams reign, there was a somewhat unfair labeling of Bolton as being one dimensional. Big Sam always had good footballers in the team. Think Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, Stellios, Diouf, etc... and they did mix it up a lot more than they were ever given credit for even if a lot of goals did come from set pieces. Sammy Lee is a fantastic coach but tried to change too much too quickly, not to mention, Big Sam raided a lot of backroom staff when he went to Newcastle. I often wonder if it would have come good for him given more time but they were adrift at the bottom of the table.

This brings me back to my original comment about outsiders expressing their outrage both at Megsons sacking and Coyles appointment.
Firstly, for keeping Bolton in the Premiership after taking over from Little Sam and making some key signings Megson deserves credit. He’s quite rightly proud of his achievement, it’s been the pinnacle of his career, Premiership survival, not once but twice. His previous Premiership record was one of failure, he had quite a bit of failure in the Championship too. No club that he managed hold any fond memories of his tenure except maybe West Brom but even there, loyalties are divided. That he had no ambition beyond scraping by was the reason why he both was loathed by Bolton fans but admired by the media because Bolton were back in their place, struggling for survival rather than upsetting the odds. Heaven forbid that they’d continue snapping at the ankles of the top 4, being feared by opponents rather than cowering in front of them. That’s why I feel Megson was portrayed as hard done by, he helped mould Bolton into the team that the media wanted them to be, perennial strugglers.
As for Owen Coyle, I don’t think it’s the fact he left Burnley for Bolton that upsets people, it’s the fact that he snubbed Celtic first. It’s the realisation that a rising star of football management would see Bolton as a more attractive prospect than Celtic. Could it be true? Take a look at their current Manager who was plucked from the Championship and their former Manager who came from the dole queue, brought success but chose to leave and soon after took up a post with a Championship side
Scottish football is in trouble, it’s not Owen Coyle’s fault but he knows it and he’s shown it to the world. The opportunity for Celtic and Rangers was lost when the ‘Championship’ replaced the first division, they should have sought to join it then and they’d be in the Premiership now, they’ll never get direct entry to the Premiership. If the Scottish League continues as it is, they wouldn’t survive either.

Wanders_fan

To be fair for all the talk of Coyle moving sideways surely starting next season Bolton will have a better squad and be in a better position for the league. I know burnley are doing well now but i can't see them being better then us(bolton fan) if we stay up.As it is we're pretty well set. If you told me we would be in this position at the start of the year i'd have been happy enough.

eagle eye

Personally I don't like the way Bolton handled their business. If they had made this move in the summer fair enough, but poaching a manager from a neighbouring club in January is not nice. I hope karma comes back to bit them in the backside tbh. Oh and I despise Burnley, but respect the job that Owen Coyle did there.