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Model Outlook Thread: January 2010

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,953 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    Well the models are all now agreeing on a rapid end to the cold spell
    In fact for southern areas 24 hours time, maybe tuesday for the rest of country
    Batt o'keefee has over reacted re the schools, but then he was only going on advice


  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭alentejo


    If and it is a big "If", Dublin gets more snow showers tonight, will melt very quickly tomorrow as temps rise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Yep - the parties pretty much over:(

    Just have to hope for a reload towards the end of the month and into Feb:)

    PS: Fair dues to Sue Campo, she appears to have called this one spot on!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,853 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Yep - the parties pretty much over:(

    Just have to hope for a reload towards the end of the month and into Feb:)

    PS: Fair dues to Sue Campo, she appears to have called this one spot on!!

    yes he did.

    however, the long range uk met office forecast mentioned a slight interruption around the middle of January before a return of the cold but i suspect that will not happen now.

    to me this has not been a "classic event" in terms of snowfall because everytime the Atlantic has faced up to the cold air it has won. yes, the east has seen decent accumulations but nothing compared to '82. this cold period only stands out for its duration. of course i appreciate none of this will matter to those who will be glad to see the back of the cold.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I feel too this cold spell was nowhere near the classics that I remember from 82, 87 and 91. It delivered in terms of temperature but the snow wasnt the best. Many places only saw an inch or 2 of snow, a good few places never saw a flake and a few luckier places managed to get some decent snow (Finglas, Blanch, Castleknock, Lucan, parts of Carlow and maybe a few spots early on in the North West). The majority of this cold snap was an annoyance more than a snow-lovers joy. The majority of the time was spent dealing with very lethal road conditions caused my hard frosts and freezing rain. Only at the end did it really snow in the east and very localised the falls were too. Im glad to see the back of this cold spell now and hopefully the next one will be shorter but better in terms of nationwide snow distribution.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    It may not be a classic snowy winter event but it is certainly a classic cold event, which has caused a lot of disruption including many burst pipes. Back to the longrange forcast though. I heard the eagle on the radio and he mentioned that it would not be as cold this week but that it may turn back next week. Do any of you see that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,853 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    malman wrote: »
    It may not be a classic snowy winter event but it is certainly a classic cold event, which has caused a lot of disruption including many burst pipes. Back to the longrange forcast though. I heard the eagle on the radio and he mentioned that it would not be as cold this week but that it may turn back next week. Do any of you see that?

    at this juncture no one can tell what will happen. by wednesday or thursday met eireann and the knowledgeable folk on here will have a better idea...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭patneve


    according to the BBC, snow will fall tonight in the Dublin area....http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/10209


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 260 ✭✭patneve


    GFS 12z is now toying with a new rise in pressure from the south next week which you all know is step 1 in a getting a decent cold snap...I await ECMWF and further model outputs and am confident of another cold snap toward the end of the month (maybe before).


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/10209
    Published at 09:00 on 11th January

    All times are GMT (Europe/London, GMT+0000)

    (Next update at 09:00 on 18th January)

    Written by Rob McElwee
    Summary
    Cold start, thawing end.

    Snow covers almost all of the UK but main roads and some city centres and is well packed. It will take some thawing.

    In the immediate future whilst Scandinavia hosts the cold anticyclone, no change in wind direction will take place so our feed air is in the easterly quarter.This anticyclone is expected to drift south over the next four weeks ending up in central Europe. That allows our winds to be southwesterly.

    By the start of February therefore, temperatures will be approaching normal and rain will be more likely than snow.

    Monday 11 January 2010 to Sunday 17 January 2010
    Cold but not as cold.

    Having lifted temperatures by a couple of degrees on Sunday, the real freeze exists now only in Highland Scotland, everywhere else temperatures will fluctuate either side of zero Celcius by 2 or 3 degrees, night and day. Some daytime thaw will take place and night-time refreeze.

    Fresh snow at first in northern hills with drifting. An early warning for Tuesday covers the likelihood of significant snow in the southwest of Britain as an Atlantic front meets the current cold. This is a typical snow scenario for Britain and typically hard to distinguish in the forecast between snow and rain. The warning is issued because the probability of the snow version is at least 60%.

    After that it is expected that the Scandinavian High will kill off the front over Northern Ireland and Western Britain and a cold southeast breeze with much cloud will be our fate. That keeps temperatures, snowfall and sunshine below average. Except in Scotland where sunshine ought to be above the norm.

    Monday 18 January 2010 to Sunday 24 January 2010
    Less cold.

    But only by a bit. The cold high over Scandinavia looks like drifting south so our breeze is now forced into a southeasterly, southerly or southwesterly. The first two are cold; The southwesterly is not.

    Assuming a fluctuation in temperatures of 2 degrees plus or minus 3 degrees, we could increase the thaw rate.

    Model indications are for little precipitation, solid or liquid but much cloud. Again, Scotland does best for sunshine.

    Monday 25 January 2010 to Sunday 7 February 2010
    Less cold again but still below average.


    With low confidence, the signal from the virtual atmosphere suggests that central Europe will now be under the centre of the cold anticyclone. If this be so then we will get winds form the southwest.

    If you add a low pressure centre to the northwest of Scotland, which seems equally likely, then rainfall totals return to average, perhaps slightly above in northern UK.

    Temperatures remain below average but snow will probably be more of a hill or temporary event. Sunshine still is below average although perhaps near to average in the north.
    Next week

    Do no dismiss February as a potentially cold month. Confidence in the southwesterly type weather is, after all, low.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Snowaddict


    at this juncture no one can tell what will happen. by wednesday or thursday met eireann and the knowledgeable folk on here will have a better idea...

    There are some limited indications at the moment, about 30%, that would seem to indicate the potential for the return for deep cold before the end of the month, certainly before the end of the winter.

    UKMO T+144 today, picking up on a signal of a drop in pressure south of the British Isles, with a slight rise to the Northwest. ECMWF overnight held constant towards T+168 indicating potential renewed cold. That is perhaps why John Eagleton indicated at this on the Broadcast.

    SA :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Snowaddict


    Very interesting ECMWF 12Z run this afternoon. Bringing forward what it has been showing on the past two runs & what John Eagleton hinted at on the radio broadcast as mentioned above..

    Interestingly that by T+144, we have the potential for frosty conditions developing again, with a weak Easterly flow by T+168.. Thereafter, a renewed cold spell & a phase of Extensive High Latitude blocking is modelled...

    Whether or not this materialises is uncertain but certainly the trend is there for renewed blocking..

    SA :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭200motels


    Snowaddict wrote: »
    Very interesting ECMWF 12Z run this afternoon. Bringing forward what it has been showing on the past two runs & what John Eagleton hinted at on the radio broadcast as mentioned above..

    Interestingly that by T+144, we have the potential for frosty conditions developing again, with a weak Easterly flow by T+168.. Thereafter, a renewed cold spell & a phase of Extensive High Latitude blocking is modelled...

    Whether or not this materialises is uncertain but certainly the trend is there for renewed blocking..

    SA :)
    Quite interesting times ahead, we'll all have to wait and see how it pans out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Yeah 12Z ECM looks kinda familiar in FI doesnt it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Well hows things on the chart front these days?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    Pangea wrote: »
    Well hows things on the chart front these days?

    Will wait for the 12z ECM and UKMO to do a commentary, but this morning's ECM run did concern me with a potential repeat of the November rains scenario in the FI stages. Will probably be dropped later but will take a look later on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Rather interesting looking GFS 00Z this morning, with the high trying to force its way back over Scandi from next Monday, sending colder air back towards the UK and Ireland.

    Its only one run and will probably be gone on the next run. Still though, something to watch for in the models over the next couple of days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    Duiske wrote: »
    Rather interesting looking GFS 00Z this morning, with the high trying to force its way back over Scandi from next Monday, sending colder air back towards the UK and Ireland.

    Its only one run and will probably be gone on the next run. Still though, something to watch for in the models over the next couple of days.

    Indeed, the ECM this morning not willing to drop this potential pressure build either for next week. By next Thursday, this model has the Scandinavian high influence building over Ireland once again:

    102380.gif
    As you say, only one run, but worth keeping an eye on over the following few days. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    look's like it's going to be a mild weekend,but by next wed much colder and precip around.

    Rtavn1802.png


    Rtavn1804.png


    bit of a beasterly a brewing :D
    doesn't last long however,seem's that we dont really ever get rid of the cold properly for January,get's a bit warmer for a couple of day's then colder again and visa versa,who no's maybe meath might get a snow event yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭WolfeIRE


    Indeed, the ECM this morning not willing to drop this potential pressure build either for next week. By next Thursday, this model has the Scandinavian high influence building over Ireland once again:

    As you say, only one run, but worth keeping an eye on over the following few days. :)

    This is consistent with last two days Deep as well. I noticed it on Monday and yesterday's GFS runs. Some of the other models are also showing it up but they indicate the atlantic winning it and the high retreating east/NE


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭WolfeIRE


    Pangea wrote: »
    Well hows things on the chart front these days?
    Here you go Pangea.
    http://www.meteociel.com/modeles/gefs_cartes.php


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    malman wrote: »
    It may not be a classic snowy winter event but it is certainly a classic cold event, which has caused a lot of disruption including many burst pipes. Back to the longrange forcast though. I heard the eagle on the radio and he mentioned that it would not be as cold this week but that it may turn back next week. Do any of you see that?

    So I heard John Eagleton right then. I wonder was he refering to the same thing you are talking about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Snowaddict


    Yes I'm really liking the latest developments on NWP Guidance into the medium term..

    There is increasing propensity in the medium term towards the rebuilding or rather refining of an area of positive height anomolies over Scandinavia.. The evolution generally involves a mix of Azores sourced air and a persistent block to the northeast reforming to form one major block & shutting out the Atlantic influence again.

    Certainly one to watch at this moment in time, we are perhaps another 2-3 Days away from where we can begin to become more confident...

    But it's entirely possible at the moment that we may see a return to colder conditions later into next week. The caveat being that this is still beyond T+120, although relatively close if the evolution were to develop as fast as modelled on some of the latest GFS runs.

    SA :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭force eleven


    We are reaching the pinnacle of this wintertime in the next week or two. In my opinion, if we get an Atlantic influence breaking through properly over the next week, it'll be hard to shift for a few weeks, and may mark the end of any further really cold plunges. However, as pointed out by our excellent forecasters on here, signs are that Siberia and Scandinavia want to re-join the party or keep a close eye on things. Whether there is a sufficient blast from the east to blow away the Atlantic again, remains to be seen.

    I'll leave you with one thought. The winter of 1947 was still only a twinkle in the model's eyes back in that year at this stage....if they had forecasting models back then....

    I don't think people will welcome the prospect of freezing weather and all the inconvenience that it brings, but nature will do what it will, I for one, will be better prepared, water wise, IF we do get a return to sub zero weather


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    dont really care if next week's cold last a day or a month,all i want is some snow :D
    from a man in withdrawal due to pics of snow everywhere except here :(

    i posted up in other thread about Trim's lack of snow,anyone have any idea? ive lived here for ten year's now and any event that give's snow alway's seems to just skim us,now cold wise it's always colder and frostier here than say dublin,we are in a slight dip here with the boyne running threw the town,there's no mnts or hill's that block any precip(belive me it rain's incessantly here).
    one thing i noticed was on saterday,the whole east coast was getting plastered with snow except for a thin strip threw louth/meath,it was ne wind and the streamer's had formed either side of the isle of man,but not over the i.o.m,hence we missed the snow,so that would sort out the ne wind's but what about when the wind is northerly or easterly???
    you can visibly notice heavier snowfall's when you drive just say 10 miles in any direction out of trim,including towards dublin(nearer the sea)
    so any input for a snow starved man.
    thank you


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,068 ✭✭✭Iancar29


    jambofc wrote: »
    look's like it's going to be a mild weekend,but by next wed much colder and precip around.




    When you say much colder with precip around , Do u think that would it be to the extent that it got to?

    oh and could u post a link to where u find the charts? thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭WolfeIRE


    jambofc wrote: »
    dont really care if next week's cold last a day or a month,all i want is some snow :D
    from a man in withdrawal due to pics of snow everywhere except here :(

    i posted up in other thread about Trim's lack of snow,anyone have any idea? ive lived here for ten year's now and any event that give's snow alway's seems to just skim us,now cold wise it's always colder and frostier here than say dublin,we are in a slight dip here with the boyne running threw the town,there's no mnts or hill's that block any precip(belive me it rain's incessantly here).
    one thing i noticed was on saterday,the whole east coast was getting plastered with snow except for a thin strip threw louth/meath,it was ne wind and the streamer's had formed either side of the isle of man,but not over the i.o.m,hence we missed the snow,so that would sort out the ne wind's but what about when the wind is northerly or easterly???
    you can visibly notice heavier snowfall's when you drive just say 10 miles in any direction out of trim,including towards dublin(nearer the sea)
    so any input for a snow starved man.
    thank you
    the-professional-motion-picture-snow-machine.png

    You could try the above :)

    Showery activity from the east may be affected by the Hill of Tara to your east. Being on the leeside of the mountain might not help your chances of seeing snow. The Hill of Ward would also have had a similar impact on the front that pushed southwards 10 days ago. Also the Isle of Man may have had an effect on your chances of seeing snow on New Year's eve and during the weekend as it would may have dsirupted the path of precip heading your way from the east. Islands and mountainous/elevated land features are known to affect weather to the point that they change air flows and draws moisture from weather systems through precipitation, therefore reducing precip elsewhere.

    Ultimately, I am sure your low lying position also negatively impacted upon your chances of seeing snow from yesterday's event and previous events were probably too marginal for locations at or close to sea level.

    Please look at my sig. What i said there might be complete horsedung but it may help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    Iancar29 wrote: »
    jambofc wrote: »
    look's like it's going to be a mild weekend,but by next wed much colder and precip around.




    When you say much colder with precip around , Do u think that would it be to the extent that it got to?

    oh and could u post a link to where u find the charts? thanks.

    look's cold enough for snow with any precip around,not as cold as it has been but max temps of 1c at 2m,doesnt really look like it will last,this is a long way away yet and liable to change,for better or worse(depending on how you look at it) :D


    www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsavneur.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    WolfeIRE wrote: »
    You could try the above :)

    Showery activity from the east may be affected by the Hill of Tara to your east. Being on the leeside of the mountain might not help your chances of seeing snow. The Hill of Ward would also have had a similar impact on the front that pushed southwards 10 days ago. Also the Isle of Man may have had an effect on your chances of seeing snow on New Year's eve and during the weekend as it would may have dsirupted the path of precip heading your way from the east. Islands and mountainous/elevated land features are known to affect weather to the point that they change air flows and draws moisture from weather systems through precipitation, therefore reducing precip elsewhere.

    Ultimately, I am sure your low lying position also negatively impacted upon your chances of seeing snow from yesterday's event and previous events were probably too marginal for locations at or close to sea level.

    Please look at my sig. What i said there might be complete horsedung but it may help.

    lol,defo need to get one of them.

    hill of ward is 9 miles to the north of me only 390ft high and hill of tara 9 miles east of me at 590ft,surely they would be to low to really impact snowfall considering the amount of rain that falls in this area?
    sea level maybe,but a lot of other places at sea level saw snow out of some of these system's.
    ta for the input :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,667 ✭✭✭WolfeIRE


    jambofc wrote: »
    Iancar29 wrote: »

    look's cold enough for snow with any precip around,not as cold as it has been but max temps of 1c at 2m,doesnt really look like it will last,this is a long way away yet and liable to change,for better or worse(depending on how you look at it) :D


    www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsavneur.html
    yes. that does see a prolonged cold spell track sw over ireland from scandanavia from 144+


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