Marathon Training v2.0

Killerz

Great result Gringo - delighted for ya. Nice to be able to benchmark the 2009 and 2010 Cork Marathons (I remember being an avid reader of the log in the run up to 2009), and see a decided improvement. Sounds like you had a bit left in the tank - I'm sure there's a few more minutes to be knocked off that time!

Gringo78

Killerz wrote: »

Sounds like you had a bit left in the tank - I'm sure there's a few more minutes to be knocked off that time!

Well I ain't going doing the months of marathon training again and putting myself through the race and the recovery time for a measly few minutes...I'll try another marathon when I can go for <2:45. Meantime I'll work on the LT pace, knock it down to 5:30 and I'll be ready to go again. Maybe Dublin 2011 or Cork 2012.

DustyBin

Fair play Gringo, very strong running there
I'm particularly happy for you as I knew from your log that you were coming at it from a low mileage training base, and tbh I thought that the other two lads would do it and that you might just miss out, but how wrong was that?? You smashed the sub 3 - brilliant
Really, really strong running by all accounts, you must be over the moon.
I think you're right as well to give it a bit of a break too, I plan on doing something similar, and funny enough have set Dub 2011 or Cork 2012 as potential sub 3hrs efforts for me - great minds huh?

What triathlon are you targetting?

Gringo78

DustyBin wrote: »

Fair play Gringo, very strong running there
I'm particularly happy for you as I knew from your log that you were coming at it from a low mileage training base, and tbh I thought that the other two lads would do it and that you might just miss out, but how wrong was that?? You smashed the sub 3 - brilliant
Really, really strong running by all accounts, you must be over the moon.
I think you're right as well to give it a bit of a break too, I plan on doing something similar, and funny enough have set Dub 2011 or Cork 2012 as potential sub 3hrs efforts for me - great minds huh?

What triathlon are you targetting?

Cheers Dusty. Youghal triathlon in sept is the one I'm thinking of.

I was over the moon with the result but the 2 lads doing made it genuinely all the sweeter. They may have done more mileage than me, but their style of training was similar so I think (me with my bias hat on now) that it was a definite stamp of approval on that style of marathon specific training, especially conisdering all 3 of us have different styles and strengths. It will make marathon training easier next time around as I have a training plan I'd be confident with, a lot of the doubts removed. If I had failed in Cork I would have put it down to the low mileage, but if one of the lads had failed then I would have questioned all our training methods so it was very important for me that all 3 of us made it.

tisnotover

DustyBin wrote: »

Fair play Gringo, very strong running there
I'm particularly happy for you as I knew from your log that you were coming at it from a low mileage training base, and tbh I thought that the other two lads would do it and that you might just miss out, but how wrong was that?? You smashed the sub 3 - brilliant

Thats funny! I was thinking the opposite and that'd it be me most likely not to do it. Both Sosa and Gringo have 60min 10mile times, I'm not there yet ! There level of margin to sub-3 was a bit more!

That was before the race though. As noted in Sosa and gringo's logs, I latched onto the pace straight from off !

Interestingly, I found the following race report from the Athenry AC girl who was in the 3hr pace group till about half-way. She finished very well in 3:04. and i thought I was brave going out at that pace, her 10k pb is just under 40mins

http://www.athenryac.com/janeanns-2010-cork-marathon

asimonov

Terrific running on monday - well done, i look forward to 3.0

Gringo78

first run since the marathon today. 3.75 miles easy at avg HR 144 avg pace 7:44. No niggles at all...Contemplating 5km race on tuesday...

ecoli

Gringo78 wrote: »

first run since the marathon today. 3.75 miles easy at avg HR 144 avg pace 7:44. No niggles at all...Contemplating 5km race on tuesday...

Don't fall into that trap. There are loads of 5ks around. My advice come back slow couple of weeks easy running

Gringo78

ecoli wrote: »

Don't fall into that trap. There are loads of 5ks around. My advice come back slow couple of weeks easy running

thanks, you're right.

Gringo78

Haven't updated the log in a while so I think I'll just do a wrap up for posterity.

Post marathon did first run 5 days later, then 2nd run was 9 days on from marathon which was an attempted tempo run....kept the HR at tempo level but the pace was dropping way off after a few miles so marathon was still most definetly in the legs. Twas really 3 weeks before I felt recovered from the marathon even though I had no aches or pains, just general fatigue and an inability to inject the pace.

Week 17th - 13th June: Marathon + 3.7 miles on 12th
Week 14th - 20th June: 11.3 miles (5.8 + 5.5)
Week 21st to 27th June: 26.4 miles (6.9/6.3/6.9/6.3) + 2 Bikes + 2 OW Swims
Week 28th to 4th July: 19.4 miles (4/4/1.8/5/4.6) + 3 Bikes

Plan is now sprint triathlon in sept (750m Sea Swim / 19km Cycle / 6.5km Run) so I will try to get a bit of cycling and swimming in each week and hopefully keep average 25 mpw running with at least a tempo run and some intervals every other week. Only 9 weeks to the triathlon so no time to be messing about.

Sosa

Best of luck with it gringo.

I have struggled with an injection of pace myself....but its getting better.
Could not manage 3k pace for my intervals...legs just would not
co-operate....only scraping 5k pace at a struggle.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

I have struggled with an injection of pace myself....but its getting better.
Could not manage 3k pace for my intervals...legs just would not
co-operate....only scraping 5k pace at a struggle.

My plan on bringing the paces back is to reverse my interval strategy from back in Jan/Feb. I will now start this week with intervals of 1 mile @ 6min pace. Next week, I'll decrease the rep distance and increase the pace i.e 0.75miles @ 5:55 pace. Hopefully then over 4 weeks can get the pace back in the legs slowly although I do feel the marathon is out of the legs now. A tempo run tonight will tell a lot....always find them the toughest sessions.

tisnotover

good to see the log back !

Are you still up country ? Corkbeg 5 is on thurs if your around, plan is to do it as tempo.

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

good to see the log back !

Are you still up country ? Corkbeg 5 is on thurs if your around, plan is to do it as tempo.

I'll be back down Thursday but babysitting. Pity, would love to race it as I've run the course so many times. If the wind is blowing the last 2 miles will be very tough. Attack the hills in the 2nd/3rd miles.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

My plan on bringing the paces back is to reverse my interval strategy from back in Jan/Feb. I will now start this week with intervals of 1 mile @ 6min pace. Next week, I'll decrease the rep distance and increase the pace i.e 0.75miles @ 5:55 pace. Hopefully then over 4 weeks can get the pace back in the legs slowly although I do feel the marathon is out of the legs now. A tempo run tonight will tell a lot....always find them the toughest sessions.

I did 12.5 this morning and after4 easy did 4x1m @ 5:55 with 3 mins rec and another 3 easy after...i plan to do them faster and with less rec as the summer continues.
Not getting as much running as before with the new job but i knew that would happen,so just doing what i can,when i can.

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

Not getting as much running as before with the new job but i knew that would happen,so just doing what i can,when i can.

Yeah, but not being in a marathon training block means you can enjoy the running even on a low mileage week...minimum guilt.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

Yeah, but not being in a marathon training block means you can enjoy the running even on a low mileage week...minimum guilt.

Thats what i am telling myself anyway

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

I'll be back down Thursday but babysitting. Pity, would love to race it as I've run the course so many times. If the wind is blowing the last 2 miles will be very tough. Attack the hills in the 2nd/3rd miles.

There's a graded 3k track race coming up too at CIT on Mon July 12th if your around and a mile race on Tues 27th July at Mardyke

They're guaranteed PB's like, but they may hurt...just a little !

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

There's a graded 3k track race coming up too at CIT on Mon July 12th if your around and a mile race on Tues 27th July at Mardyke

They're guaranteed PB's like, but they may hurt...just a little !

Cheers, prob won't make either but we'll see.

have found a local 5km here this evening so will give that a go. My 5km PB is 17:54. My 10 mile time would suggest 17:28 but I haven't been doing any speedwork since then so I'll struggle to beat my PB I think. I've a streak of 12 straight PB's so I'll do my best to keep it going. Will try it as a Go-zone race Km 1 fast, 5:30 pace, km 2 & 3 hold it together, km 4 step it up, km 5 take it home fast.

Did 8 miles easy yesterday with 7x100m strides. Avg pace was about 7:45 overall, HR low 140's.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Cheers, prob won't make either but we'll see.

have found a local 5km here this evening so will give that a go. My 5km PB is 17:54. My 10 mile time would suggest 17:28 but I haven't been doing any speedwork since then so I'll struggle to beat my PB I think. I've a streak of 12 straight PB's so I'll do my best to keep it going. Will try it as a Go-zone race Km 1 fast, 5:30 pace, km 2 & 3 hold it together, km 4 step it up, km 5 take it home fast.

Did 8 miles easy yesterday with 7x100m strides. Avg pace was about 7:45 overall, HR low 140's.

Best of luck with the 5k. 12 straight PB's is some going ! I'd take the same approach for the 5k, you have to go out hard in it I find, steady and then try and push-on. It'll be a good fitness test at the very least.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

Cheers, prob won't make either but we'll see.

have found a local 5km here this evening so will give that a go. My 5km PB is 17:54. My 10 mile time would suggest 17:28 but I haven't been doing any speedwork since then so I'll struggle to beat my PB I think. I've a streak of 12 straight PB's so I'll do my best to keep it going. Will try it as a Go-zone race Km 1 fast, 5:30 pace, km 2 & 3 hold it together, km 4 step it up, km 5 take it home fast.

Did 8 miles easy yesterday with 7x100m strides. Avg pace was about 7:45 overall, HR low 140's.

It will be interesting to see your times lads,i have my 5k Sunday week...and am pushing for sub 17 ...maybe a bit to fast,but we will have a try

Gringo78

Hadn't planned to do a 5km race but found this one so decided to give it a go as I really hadn't raced anything short in so long (last august was my last race <10miles). I knew it was going to be tough hitting sub 6 paces as I hadn't hit any such paces even in training since march but still felt that 17:40 was a realistic target...that would be 3:32 per km. My race plan was to go out fast, maintain the pace and then attack in km 4 and take it home fast....easier said than done.

Looked to be around 150 at the start line so I felt I'd likely be top 15 at least so took my place up front. Hit off fast alright...3:18 for the first km, but was downhill so I felt that it was ok. There were only 3 lads ahead of me though so maybe I was going a bit too fast....I seemed to be leading the chasing pack though and doing a lot of the work into the wind. I thought to myself I'd ease back though for the second km....3:17 for the second km...so much for easing back...I've never been so close to the leaders before in a race and I think I got sucked in and was reluctant to leave them sprint off into the distance. km 3 was tough and I worked hard to do it in 3:42..a group of 4 runners overtook me and I kept within a few metres of them. HR avg for that km was 184 though, way too high. I didn't look at it however so I wasn't aware that I was seriously overdoing it at that stage. Still had 19sec up on my target though. km 4 was where i was meant to up the pace but I was spent, did it in 3:53 and so lost the 19sec and was 2 sec down. HR avg for that km was 185.

Totally died then on the last km and couldn't muster anything, 4:09 for the last km, avg HR 185 hitting max 188 which is pretty close to my max HR of 190. Got overtaken by a few people in the first half of the km, managed to pick it up a bit for the last 800m and got back to around 6:00 pace and finish in 18:19, well outside the target.

So avg pace 5:53, avg HR 178. Not happy with it really although some positives. I managed sub 6 pace and twas good to get out on a short race again. I've no speed work and have hardly run sub 6:30 since march so I suppose I was asking a bit much to expect even sub 18. Went off way too fast.....I averaged 5:19 pace for first 2km....nice to know I can do it, but I should have backed off to target pace on km 2......I don't even hit those paces on strides!! I'm obviously very very race unfit so twas good to get this race in to shake off some of the cob webs and get me back on track but was really bad call not to back off on km 2. I'm confident with a few weeks of intervals that I could go sub 17 so maybe Novartis 5km in august.

Even though twas a miserable night weather wise, lashing rain and a gale blowing, and coming away with a very unsatisfactory time, god its great to race....its what makes all the training worthwhile. Can't wait for the next one.

tisnotover

Good to get the race in Gringo, and some motivation will no doubt come out of it, like you mention with getting back into interval work again.

You were still prob close to top-15 with that time i'm sure ??

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

You were still prob close to top-15 with that time i'm sure ??

yeah, I was 12th I think in the end.

aero2k

Gringo78 wrote: »

yeah, I was 12th I think in the end.

Well done Gringo,

5k pace is a right shock to the system after marathon training / recovery!

Gringo78

aero2k wrote: »

5k pace is a right shock to the system after marathon training / recovery!

Yeah....I remember running a 4 mile race last year and 2 of the lads from the club afterwards said they couldn't wait for marathon season when they wouldn't have to race the short painful races! Its a different sort of pain holding 5k pace for 5k than PMP for 3 hours. In a marathon you have more time to think and ponder the pain and make it seem worse than it is maybe....in a 5km race 10 seconds just seems to last for so so long!

shotgunmcos

Gringo78 wrote: »

.I averaged 5:19 pace for first 2km....nice to know I can do it, but I should have backed off to target pace on km 2.......

A minute of a difference per km is a fair drop in pace so you must have been hanging!! Maybe if you belt out of the start to reign it back to target pace quicker, or a different strategy of starting just over target pace and building into it finishing strong...

Well done on your result, not bad off the back of Marathon stuff

Gringo78

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Maybe if you belt out of the start to reign it back to target pace quicker, or a different strategy of starting just over target pace and building into it finishing strong.

yeah, I think correct tactic would have been to back off to target pace after 6-800m. I think it works for me though to go out fast in a 5km race. I just held on to the leaders far too long.

I must check this exactly on Sportracks but I did run the early portion of the race faster than I had hit in any race or in training before....5:20 for a mile, previous best was 5:36 during a 5km race last year. Also 10:18 for 3km, previous best was 10:36 also during a 5km last year.

dubes

Did you ever use a Garmin Forerunner??? savage cabbage!!!

Gringo78

Attempt at a tempo run yesterday evening...not great...only managed 20min at the tempo pace of avg 6:20. Total 5.5 miles. Its a start I suppose. Weight up to 77kg and should be down to around 72/73kg so need to pay close attention to that and cut out the crap for the rest of the summer. Got very slack with the diet in May/June.

Plan a swim today at lunchtime....if the lanes are quiet will try the 750m straight to get an idea of where I'm at with the swimming.