Marathon Training v2.0

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Attempt at a tempo run yesterday evening...not great...only managed 20min at the tempo pace of avg 6:20. Total 5.5 miles. Its a start I suppose. Weight up to 77kg and should be down to around 72/73kg so need to pay close attention to that and cut out the crap for the rest of the summer. Got very slack with the diet in May/June.

It is a start+getting out there+doing it is the hardest bit sometimes!

There's a race on in Youghal this Sunday at 2pm if your around ?

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

There's a race on in Youghal this Sunday at 2pm if your around ?

Might do that if I'm not up to anything else sunday....not sure what the course is but prob reasonably flat...PB material.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Might do that if I'm not up to anything else sunday....not sure what the course is but prob reasonably flat...PB material.

Good stuff, if i'm not too hung-over I'll head down !

Sosa

tisnotover wrote: »

Good stuff, if i'm not too hung-over I'll head down !

Ah yes....let the gamesmanship begin

Gringo78

Sosa wrote: »

Ah yes....let the gamesmanship begin

We're playing the blahs 7pm saturday so could have a few pints then myself and have a bbq on saturday also so I mightn't be in great shape either....might have to go for cagey racing if TNO shows up....I'll wait till he's distracted in the last mile and make my move.....at a particularly scenic point in the course (of which there are many in youghal) when he's likely to admiring the view instead of covering moves.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

We're playing the blahs 7pm saturday so could have a few pints then myself and have a bbq on saturday also so I mightn't be in great shape either....might have to go for cagey racing if TNO shows up....I'll wait till he's distracted in the last mile and make my move.....at a particularly scenic point in the course (of which there are many in youghal) when he's likely to admiring the view instead of covering moves.

Nobody is safe...not even a fellow rebel.

As for the game,ye were lucky to get away with it last week although we were ultimately lucky to get the draw...i sense a better display from Cork this time and if we are behind 4/5 points early it could be curtains...but you never know.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

We're playing the blahs 7pm saturday so could have a few pints then myself and have a bbq on saturday also so I mightn't be in great shape either....might have to go for cagey racing if TNO shows up....I'll wait till he's distracted in the last mile and make my move.....at a particularly scenic point in the course (of which there are many in youghal) when he's likely to admiring the view instead of covering moves.

I have to laugh at the "many scenic points in Youghal" bit, priceless !

tisnotover

Sosa wrote: »

Nobody is safe...not even a fellow rebel.

As for the game,ye were lucky to get away with it last week although we were ultimately lucky to get the draw...i sense a better display from Cork this time and if we are behind 4/5 points early it could be curtains...but you never know.

Very lucky to get the draw, don't know what that free was given at end for !

Gringo78

tisnotover wrote: »

There's a race on in Youghal this Sunday at 2pm

Prob unlikely to do this race now with other stuff going on this weekend. 5k on on tuesday night in Donegal though so will prob do that. One on the week after aswell that I could do so would be good to see if I can get race fit again and drop the times.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Prob unlikely to do this race now with other stuff going on this weekend. 5k on on tuesday night in Donegal though so will prob do that. One on the week after aswell that I could do so would be good to see if I can get race fit again and drop the times.

I can relate to what ure saying about getting race-fit, + feel I need a few races myself. Chruchtown 5 next thurs and a 5km in Carrigtwohill the week after.

My thinking is to do these and see how we get on. During the marathon training+like you I missed loads of races so happy enuf to do these, hopefully see some speed come back in the legs and make out a plan from there.

Gringo78

Tuesday - Lunchtime swim & 5.5m easy in the evening
Thursday - Intervals - 3x1km, 2min jog recovery, @ 5:40 pace. Found this tough but its a start.

Gringo78

Was going to do a 5km race this evening but did 2 pretty hard cycling sessions yesterday so will leave it till next week as there is one on that is a bit closer next week and I'd prob be in better shape for it then.

Finally got out on a road bike (a fairly crap one, but at least not an MTB) yesterday evening. Twas a hilly course and my legs really weren't used to the hills! I had no probs holding 33/34km/hr on the relative flats but took me a while to get comfortable on how best to tackle the hills. Overall I averaged 27km/hr which was slower than I thought I should be able to do it in but I checking the HR afterwards, I hadn't put in as much effort as I would on the gym bike. Plus I had done 30min at just below threshold power on the bike at lunchtime followed by a run off the bike so the legs were tired. The sprint tri I'm doing though is pretty much flat so I'm fairly confident I won't embarass myself on the bike anyways.

Gringo78

750m swim at lunchtime. Felt very comfortable swimming today and seem to have a found a rhythm now. Might try to get a lesson next week as I feel I'm not the most efficient or graceful swimmer so I'd say a lesson could easily sort out a few things. Must go for a swim in sea some day aswell to see what my lidl wetsuit is like for swimming in (not very good I'd imagine).

shotgunmcos

What Tri are you doing?

As for how to tackle the hills. If they are small rolling once accelerate into them the momentum will carry you over. Mainly cadence is the thing that suffers and thus speed. Try to keep your cadence up which meand downshifting to the relevant gear. Aim is to keep the legs spinning at 90rpm ish and not resort to mashing your way up

Gringo78

shotgunmcos wrote: »

What Tri are you doing?

As for how to tackle the hills. If they are small rolling once accelerate into them the momentum will carry you over. Mainly cadence is the thing that suffers and thus speed. Try to keep your cadence up which meand downshifting to the relevant gear. Aim is to keep the legs spinning at 90rpm ish and not resort to mashing your way up

Doing Youghal Triathlon - 750m Sea Swim - 19km Cycle (very flat) - 6.5km run (hilly). Kinda suits me - running being the most difficult leg and my strongest.

Problem with the hills was the shifters were not up on the handle bars but on the frame lower bar so I had to take a hand off to shift which was cr*p but fared a lot better once I shifted early before the cadence dropped. The bike is a cheapo racer but I'll be borrowing a much better bike for the tri...has aero bars i think, would probably want a few practice runs on those though first.

aero2k

Gringo78 wrote: »

but I'll be borrowing a much better bike for the tri...has aero bars i think, would probably want a few practice runs on those though first.

Hi Gringo,

Definitely have a few practice runs on a quiet road. They take a bit of getting used to especially on curves in the road - you'll have to use the "normal" part of the bars for tighter cornering. Even the pros struggle with them - look at the regular carnage in TdeF team time trials. There was a fashion for a sort of short clip-on aero bar (Spinachi??) about 10 years ago in the pro peloton but they had to ban them after lots of crashes.

Maybe try a few goes with the bike mounted on a turbo if you can borrow one, at least you'll get the position right before you venture out on the road.

Gringo78

aero2k wrote: »

Definitely have a few practice runs on a quiet road. They take a bit of getting used to especially on curves in the road - you'll have to use the "normal" part of the bars for tighter cornering.

18k of the bike course is a straight flat main road so perfect for tri bars. Once you go in aero position no need to come out of it until the turn around and then its straight back into for 9k.

There's a spinning bike in the gym with aero bars so will try that for feel on position.

Gringo78

tuesday: 5.7 miles w/ 4@ tempo HR. Aim was to keep HR at 170-172 for the tempo miles, pace for the tempo miles averaged 6:30. Felt tough after the cycling the previous day and also the lunchtime swim. I generally don't factor swims into causing any sort of fatigue but I suppose they must do.

wednesday: bike 25min w/20min @ HR 150 in aero position. Follwed by 2k on treadmill to cool down.

Gringo78

friday: 5.8 miles at avg pace 7:00. Interval session. Aim was 800m intervals at 5:30 pace with 1min recovery...far too ambitious. Did 8 reps at paces from 5:30 to 5:45 but cut it short on 2 reps to 650m when the recovery was just too short. Recovery's were on average 1:45 between reps. Found this very tough today but I'm sure it'll be easier now next week.

aero2k

Hi Gringo,

Daniels reckons 4-5 min is ideal duration for this sort of VO2 max interval. That way you have loads of time to get up to max work rate, and you can take a longer rest interval without compromising the workout.

I've only done one so far - 4 x .6 m @ 5:40. Not looking forward to the next one on a revised (i.e. faster!) target!

These are tough sessions, but funnily enough I think recovery from them is faster than from longer, slower stuff.

Gringo78

aero2k wrote: »

These are tough sessions, but funnily enough I think recovery from them is faster than from longer, slower stuff.

True, intervals never stay in my legs for long...I'd happily go out running again this evening. Todays session was haphazard and unstructured but I needed to kick start my intervals. Next week maybe 5x1km at 5:40 pace should be doable. My training will be a little all over the shop until september as I try to get in swims and bikes aswell but I hope that after the triathlon I'll be back to full fitness and will hit into a half marathon program leading into waterford in december.

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

True, intervals never stay in my legs for long...I'd happily go out running again this evening. Todays session was haphazard and unstructured but I needed to kick start my intervals. Next week maybe 5x1km at 5:40 pace should be doable. My training will be a little all over the shop until september as I try to get in swims and bikes aswell but I hope that after the triathlon I'll be back to full fitness and will hit into a half marathon program leading into waterford in december.

Agree with the 5*1km, I remember from earlier in your log you really were knocking those intervals out. they will get easier. If you need motivation, think of a blue singlet and a black singlet on the line next to ya in Ballycotton on Aug 26th

Git101

Gringo78 wrote: »

Doing Youghal Triathlon - 750m Sea Swim - 19km Cycle (very flat) - 6.5km run (hilly). Kinda suits me - running being the most difficult leg and my strongest.

Problem with the hills was the shifters were not up on the handle bars but on the frame lower bar so I had to take a hand off to shift which was cr*p but fared a lot better once I shifted early before the cadence dropped. The bike is a cheapo racer but I'll be borrowing a much better bike for the tri...has aero bars i think, would probably want a few practice runs on those though first.

Hi Gringo

I've been reading your training log on a recommendation from aero2k.

While out for a run today I had one of those random thoughts that you get while living in your own head.

I was recently reading about aero bars v standard setup and an experiment found that cyclists who were used to aero bars were faster with aero bars but cyclists that used standard bars were faster with standard bars.
It may not be in your best interest to change to aero bars unless you are going to use them all the time or get a load of practice with them before youghal.
I can't find the article at the moment but I'll send you a link if I do.

Best of luck with the training

Gringo78

Git101 wrote: »

I was recently reading about aero bars v standard setup and an experiment found that cyclists who were used to aero bars were faster with aero bars but cyclists that used standard bars were faster with standard bars.
It may not be in your best interest to change to aero bars unless you are going to use them all the time or get a load of practice with them before youghal.
I can't find the article at the moment but I'll send you a link if I do.

Best of luck with the training

Thanks for that. Yeah, I'd imagine if you were not used to the bars, you'd be up and down on them all the time and would probably have been more efficient just to stay in the drops. I'll see how much time I get with it beforehand and will only use them if I'm confident of being able to stay in that position for long periods. It is a flat straight course very suited to aerobars though so worth being able to use them

Gringo78

Sunday: 6 miles @ 7:10 pace. Was running besie OH on bike so pace varied from 5:30 up to 8:30....junk miles territory but good to get a run in at the weekend. HR was back to pre marathon levels though so starting to feel the pace back in the legs and have shed a little of the excess weight too.

Monday: 25min on spinning bike in aero position with 20min @ HR 155. I think I'm starting to get more bike fit now. Followed it up with 10min on treadmill. Don't seem to have any difficulty running off the bike which is good.

Will go for an easy run this evening, a swim tomorrow lunchtime and then 5k race tomorrow evening which I'm really looking forward to.

Seres

Gringo78 wrote: »

Sunday: 6 miles @ 7:10 pace. Was running besie OH on bike so pace varied from 5:30 up to 8:30....junk miles territory but good to get a run in at the weekend. HR was back to pre marathon levels though so starting to feel the pace back in the legs and have shed a little of the excess weight too.

Monday: 25min on spinning bike in aero position with 20min @ HR 155. I think I'm starting to get more bike fit now. Followed it up with 10min on treadmill. Don't seem to have any difficulty running off the bike which is good.

Will go for an easy run this evening, a swim tomorrow lunchtime and then 5k race tomorrow evening which I'm really looking forward to.

i found bike work great for improving pace running up hills , your log is very busy these times .

Gringo78

Seres wrote: »

i found bike work great for improving pace running up hills , your log is very busy these times .

Beginning to like the bike actually....sweat pours off me in the gym while on the bike and seems to be much less risk of injury compared to the running. Try to get 2 sessions per day in mon/tues/wed and then normally only get another 2 runs in on t/f/s/s so the weeks schedule is a bit loaded in the first few days. 6 weeks training til the tri so should be able to make a bit of progress with the bike. 4.5 weeks to showdown on the roads of ballycotton with Sosa & TNO so plenty of incentive to keep the training up over the next few weeks....

Gringo78

monday pm: 4.5 miles easy hilly at avg pace 8.00 avg HR 137. felt very fresh this evening despite the lunchtime cycle so hopefully good sign for tomorrow's race.

tisnotover

Best of luck in the 5k !

Gringo78

tuesday lunchtime: Swimming 5x150m off 3:55. Didn't push too hard on this with 5km race this evening, don't fear the swim anymore which is great.

5k race this evening: went out too hard 3 weeks ago and blew up (18:19) so will be a bit more conservative this time, go off at 5:40 pace for the first 2 miles and see can I hold on then, best I could do with that strategy would be 17:30, hopefully run at least a PB of better than 17:54. Looked up the results from past years and the top 20 times seem a little fast so might be that its a downhill course or was short but we'll see later anyways what the story is and adjust the strategy if neccessary.