Marathon Training v2.0

Gringo78

Racing Flat wrote: »

I wonder are you struggling a bit with these intervals because you're doing them 2 days after a tempo - maybe an extra day in between would help. I say that because if you are doing 6m tempo runs at 6.18 pace, you should not struggle with 4 x 1mile at 6.00 pace with relatively long recoveries (e.g. a few weeks ago I did 5.5m at 6.18 pace and 3 days later 5 x 1m with 90secs recovery in 5.53, 5.59, 5.59, 6.22, 6.11 last two were uphill, but I was also wrecked, probably wouldn't have gone much better on flat).

In relation to the recovery, it all depends on the relative pace and the volume. Why are you doing them at 6.00 pace? Does this equate to a particular race pace? For my last marathon I made the mistake of trying to do fast intervals - did 4 x 1mile at 5.40/mile with 4min recoveries. If I was doing it again, I'd do more reps, do them more slowly and take much less recovery - a much more specific session to the race in question. Saying that, if I was doing a martathon again I'd be focusing on the big workouts as described by tergat on here, e.g. intervals of 4 x 3miles at marathon pace etc.; clearly much slower but also much greater volume.

Best of luck with it anyway.

Probably struggling with the Intervals for 2 reasons:

1. only 1 days rest between tempo and interval. I hoped to correct this by doing tempo on Monday but unfortunately got sick on sunday so was very low on energy yesterday so couldn't do tempo as I had planned. I think though I should be able to handle this 1 day gap.

2. Have only reintroduced intervals 2 weeks ago after a break of about 3 months. I also did no races since september so I think my running economy at those paces has slipped a bit but I expect it to come back fast, as it usually does.

As regards pace...my last interval session back in october was 6x1km @ 5:50 with 110sec recovery which I managed, so I choose 6:00 as I thought I was being conservative by being 10sec slower than I had been....turns out I was being a bit over optimistic.

I think you're right though, longer intervals are more beneficial for marathon training, so I might drop the 1km intervals for 2 mile intervals so rotate between 1mile, 2km and 2 mile intervals. I wil repeat the 1 mile intervals thursday but imagine I'll be a lot more comfortable at 6:00 pace than last week.

4x3mile workout....I'd love to have the time to do it, but mon to fri I have maximum 50min to train so I'm very restricted. At the weekend I do the LSR so wouldn't be able to also do a big session. Maybe circumstances will change as I would like to get a longer session in sometime mon to fri and would certainly go for one of tergats big sessions.

Gringo78

Jan 20th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly @ avg pace 7:48. Avg HR?? Need to get a battery for the heart rate monitor before Dungarvan, I'm a sucker for the ol stats and feel lost not knowing my heart rate....really want it for the post race analysis.

village runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

Jan 20th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly @ avg pace 7:48. Avg HR?? Need to get a battery for the heart rate monitor before Dungarvan, I'm a sucker for the ol stats and feel lost not knowing my heart rate....really want it for the post race analysis.

What is your target time in Dungarvan ??
I also found a session tuesday and thursday didnt work for me. Its works tuesday and friday for me.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

What is your target time in Dungarvan ??
I also found a session tuesday and thursday didnt work for me. Its works tuesday and friday for me.

I'm thinking get to halfway in 31:30 and see how I feel, hopefully would be able to gradually step it up then, go for sub 63, would be delighted with that, but if I was feeling really good, maybe even sub 62. Not inclined to be overly conservative on this one with a potential re-run in mallow the week after if I make a mess of things.

Gringo78

Jan 21st

Intervals: Plan was 4x1mile @ 6:00 pace. Splits were 6:05 / 5:55 / 6:03 / 5:59. 3min recovery after rep 1 then 3:30 recovery after rep 2 and 3. felt a lot easier than last week although was tough with the wind to judge pace

Gringo78

Jan 22nd

3.6 miles recovery, hilly, at avg pace 8:00

Jan 23rd

6.3 miles at avg pace 7:00. No time for a LSR today (hopefully tomorrow) so did first PMP run, so 4 miles at PMP pace (will increase this up to 10 over the next few weeks). Averaged 6:45 for the 4 miles and felt nice and easy. Cooldown was a mile avg gradient 6%, intend to do this for all PMP runs to make sure I have enough in the tank for HOTW. PMP felt very easy, obviously would be a lot differnt after 20 miles

Gringo78

Jan 24th

10.6 miles easy at avg pace 7:34. Didn't have time for LSR today so happy enough to get out at all and probably better off without LSR as 46 miles this week and an extra 8 would have been too much of a step up from 37 miles last week. Would have been a doubling of my average weekly mileage in 2 weeks.

Summary of week:

6 mile Tempo, 4x 1mile Intervals, 4 miles @ PMP, 10 mile aerobic, good hilly recovery runs, Total 46 miles.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

I will do a 5 miler on the track tuesday in 30 and see what its like(thats my session i think i will do this week) Has worked for me in hte past.

Read this in VRs log and thought it was a good idea so said I'd give it a go for a Tempo session today. Aim was to basically run 6 miles as I intend to run the first 6 miles in Dungarvan, which would be 6:30 for the first mile then 5 miles @ 6:15, passing through 5 mile mark in 31:30. Was a bit tired today as it was my 8th straight day running but managed (after a 0.6 mile warmup) 6:28 / 6:20 / 6:13 / 6:06 / 6:10 / 6:11. Passed through 5 miles in 31:16 so more or less on target. Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.

Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30

Todays session was a real confidence booster as I was not rested heading into the session and yet was not a broken man after the 6th mile . Racing flats and race day adrenaline, and no more intense sessions before the race should mean I should be able to hold 6:15 pace for miles 2-9 which would give a race target of 62:30. I don't think sub 62 is on this week though but I intend to push it close.

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

Read this in VRs log and thought it was a good idea so said I'd give it a go for a Tempo session today. Aim was to basically run 6 miles as I intend to run the first 6 miles in Dungarvan, which would be 6:30 for the first mile then 5 miles @ 6:15, passing through 5 mile mark in 31:30. Was a bit tired today as it was my 8th straight day running but managed (after a 0.6 mile warmup) 6:28 / 6:20 / 6:13 / 6:06 / 6:10 / 6:11. Passed through 5 miles in 31:16 so more or less on target. Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.

Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30

Todays session was a real confidence booster as I was not rested heading into the session and yet was not a broken man after the 6th mile . Racing flats and race day adrenaline, and no more intense sessions before the race should mean I should be able to hold 6:15 pace for miles 2-9 which would give a race target of 62:30. I don't think sub 62 is on this week though but I intend to push it close.

Good session Gringo,always good to get a confidence booster.
Sensible to do the first mile slower to get in the swing of things,i took that approach for the half in Dec and it worket a treat,getting stronger as the race went on and finished like a 5m race.
Best of luck Sunday

theboyblunder

Sosa wrote: »

Good session Gringo,always good to get a confidence booster.
Sensible to do the first mile slower to get in the swing of things,i took that approach for the half in Dec and it worket a treat,getting stronger as the race went on and finished like a 5m race.
Best of luck Sunday

+1 great running to average 6:14. Best of luck at the weekend....

tisnotover

Gringo78 wrote: »

Avg for the 6 miles tempo was 6:14.
Total: 7.1 miles @ avg pace 6:30
/QUOTE]

savage session lad, your in top form, I'll stay with ya for the first mile, after that your def on your own!

Gringo78

Gringo78 wrote: »

I'll be watching my weight during training. Presently 75kg and would like to get this down to 72kg for the marathon. Was 78kg for the marathon last year so good that I'm already 3kg better off than at the end of training in June but would like to get this down more.

Weight now down to 72kg, already ready hit my target weight and the lowest its been in about 8 years. With 11 weeks until the marathon I think I should be able to drop this to 70kg (BMI 21.5) which would be a great race weight.

Jan 26th

5.5 miles recovery, hilly, @avg pace 7:48

tisnotover

thats good going on the weight lad, be worth a bit over 10miles?

misty floyd

Gringo, this is a great thread....you are going great. Gonna keep an eye on the log and best of luck in Dungarvan. You'll run a strong race thats for sure.

Abhainn

Good form there Gringo78. You look well on target there for Sunday

Gringo78

Jan 27th

3 miles easy at avg pace 7:49

Jan 28th

Interval Session: Planned 3x2km @ 6:05 pace with 1km recovery jog
Split 1: 6:04 pace split 2: 6:09 pace Split 3: 6:02 pace.
Took longer recovery's than I normally in light of Sundays race so didn't find this session too tough.
Total: 6.4 miles @ avg pace 6:53

Have now run 141 miles for January which beats my previous record mileage for a month (140.5 - July '09). My highest monthly mileage in my last marathon training block was 135 so already training is well ahead of last year.

village runner

F*ck Mallow. Dont have it as a cop out race. If you can run 6 @ 6.14 with no breather I would be having a crack at 61 for sure. I would be going through halfway in 31 ease down the big hill as you will see lads sprinting down it(not me) and take it from there. Pick one lad at a time. But 63 sounds like a tempo run for you. Race the Fu**ing thing.

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

F*ck Mallow. Dont have it as a cop out race.

Yeah, you're right. Got a fright today at work when I twisted my ankle (all ok though luckily) and I thought, f**k it, I might not race again, haven't raced since september, so should give it an honest 100%.

village runner

Gringo78 wrote: »

Yeah, you're right. Got a fright today at work when I twisted my ankle (all ok though luckily) and I thought, f**k it, I might not race again, haven't raced since september, so should give it an honest 100%.

Mallow is Ideal as a 5 mile pmp and a 5 mile race??? I dont know if i would race well a week later.

tisnotover

Best of luck Sunday lad. Mite see ya around start!

Gringo78

62:00 today. delighted with the time as ran a very controlled race. first half in 31:10 2nd half 30:50 so nice negative split although my heart rate stats would say i was a bit too conservative in first half. finished with a 6min mile

Gringo78

62:00 today. delighted with the time as ran a very controlled race. first half in 31:10 2nd half 30:50 so nice negative split although my heart rate stats would say i was a bit too conservative in first half. finished with a 6min mile

tisnotover

nice one lad, 62:00 according to results too, well up field, well done!

Sosa

Gringo78 wrote: »

62:00 today. delighted with the time as ran a very controlled race. first half in 31:10 2nd half 30:50 so nice negative split although my heart rate stats would say i was a bit too conservative in first half. finished with a 6min mile

Well done Gringo,great run.

Gringo78

Aim was to run sub 62 and I felt this was an ambitious aim so even though didn’t break 62, 62:00 is good enough. I hadn’t raced since September when I had a poor HM so even though I knew I had been training well the last few weeks, it was at the back of my mind that I had no idea whether I was really in the shape I thought I was in.

Pre race plan was to run a conservative first mile, not to get carried away in the fast starts that can ruin races, and then settle into 6:15 pace. Went through first mile in 6:23 on the clock. However Garmin showed me as running about 1.03 miles & 6:10 pace so either GPS was a little off or there really was a fair bit of weaving in the first mile, so probably not as easy a first mile as the time would suggest. Full splits with HRs in brackets are below. I pressed the lap button at each mile marker so they are the proper splits rather than autolap splits.

Got back on track for mile 2 and ran well for first 5 miles picking off groups from about 2 miles in. Noticed however that my HR was a little lower than it should be (my tempo runs are normally >175) but since I had only got a new battery for the HR strap the day before, and had not had it in training for the last 2-3 weeks, I didn’t pay too much attention to this.

Passed through half way in around 31:10 and felt good. Miles 5,6,7,8 I picked things up a bit but was doing a lot of running on my own as I would move from group to group, but never found any group that I could stay with for long as their pace was dropping off. Caught a group towards the end of mile 5 who were running a nice sub 6:15 pace but once they hit the 6 mile marker they dropped off, as if they looked at their watches and felt they had covered 6 miles too fast so I was left on my own again. I learned yesterday the importance of running with a group when you can, definetly worth 5 sec a mile, or a whole minute in a 10 mile race.

After 8 miles there was a short pull up onto the main Dungarvan-Youghal road for the 2 mile run into the wind for the finish. That little pull was tough but I knew I just had to concentrate on staying on pace for mile 9 and I’d post a good time. Mile 9 was the hardest of the race, slight incline, into the wind, runners well strung out, but I think my 6:19 on that mile was my best split of the race as I ran the entire mile on my own, overtaking people but not taking shelter behind them for long. Hit the 9 mile marker with 56:00 on the clock and knew I needed to run a 6 min mile to the end, amazingly I had no doubt I could do it at that point and pushed on right to the finish holding a very consistent 6:00 pace according to the garmin the whole way. I knew technically I needed 5:59 to break 62 but the extra second wasn’t there yesterday on the last mile….I think I certainly left a few seconds out on the course in the first half! 62:00 on the clock at the end, average pace 6:12, avg HR 170 (which is too low for me for a 10 mile) and a 20sec negative split over the 2 halves.

Found the 6 mile tempo runs I had been doing in training really came to the fore at the end. With 2 miles to go I felt same/slightly better than I normally do with 2 miles to go in training so I had the confidence to run hard for the last 2 miles rather than taking the easy option and tucking in behind someone on the run in.

10th straight PB in a row and a whole 6.5min off my Ballycotton time 11 months ago.

6 :23 (150)
6 :16 (166)
6 :04 (169)
6 :11 (170)
6 :13 (175)
6 :13 (173)
6 :03 (173)
6 :14 (174)
6 :19 (174)
6 :00 (177)

Fantastically organised race, great course, great facilities, great hospitality, great goody bag, amazing price. 10/10. This is one I’ll be doing again and again. Well done West Waterford AC.

Abhainn

Well executed race Gringo78. Big improvement in a year.
You did an interval session on Thurs which I think may still have been in your legs. And in theory a session like that does not benefit you for at least a week.
I would do this a day earlier or even drop it for an easier session, that is if I planning on racing hard a few days later

Gringo78

Abhainn wrote: »

Well executed race Gringo78. Big improvement in a year.
You did an interval session on Thurs which I think may still have been in your legs. And in theory a session like that does not benefit you for at least a week.
I would do this a day earlier or even drop it for an easier session, that is if I planning on racing hard a few days later

To be honest, I felt I had to do the intervals as i was already forgoing a long run at the weekend to do the race, and dropping the interval session would have been too much. I compromised by doing 3x2km instead or 4x2km and taking a longer recovery between reps. i also of course felt that I needed to have some excuse if the race didn't go well and the interval session on thursday gave me that

Seriously though, marathon training is the priority for the moment and a 10 mile race really takes a chunk out of the training i.e I won't be able for a tempo as normal today or tomorrow, will do 7 miles tomorrow with 5 @PMP instead of regular tempo, then intervals on thurs but even so the race costs me a less intense interval session, a tempo run (although a 10 mile race is more or less at tempo pace so thats good) and a long run. Legs feel fine today so should be fine for the PMP run tomorrow.

Still the updside of a 10 mile race is it gives me confidence in my training which is worth a lot.

another world

Great run there Gringo.

Gringo78

Jan 30th

2.1 miles easy at average pace 07:51, avg HR 131

Jan 31st

Dungarvan 10 Race - Total 12 w/10 @ 6:12 pace (62:00)

January Total Miles: 155.1 (PB)
January Days Run: 24 (PB)

Marathon Training So Far:

Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4
26.6|37.5|46.1|36.1


Avg MPW: 36.6

Gringo78

Feb 1st

3.1 miles recovery @ avg pace 7:50, avg HR 144

Feb 2nd

Decided to drop the usual tempo today (too soon after race on Sunday) and do a PMP run instead. One of my conclusions after my first marathon attempt was that I needed to run PMP's at marathon HR rather than a specific pace. The reasoning behind this is that the effort level required to run a particular pace varies depending on the intensity of training on a particular week and certainly it requires more effort to run a particular pace during a heavy week of training than after 2-3 weeks taper. Thus the plan on this run was to keep the HR at or below 165 which I'm reasonably sure is my marathon HR.

Total 7.1 miles at avg pace 7:02, avg HR 162 w/10k @ avg pace 06:55, avg HR 164.

Happy with todays run, pace is in the range I would like at this stage and fairly well recovered after Dungarvan.