Marathon Training v2.0

Gringo78 · 22-02-2010 10:32am

Summary Training So Far:

Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4
26.6|37.5|46.1|36.1

Wk 5|Wk 6|Wk 7|Wk 8
38.1|18.1|41.3|

Avg mpw: 34.8

Tempo|Interval|PMP|LSR|Race|Recovery|Easy
5|7|3|2|1|6|12

5 weeks training left until taper for Connemara starts. First 20 miler out of the way and legs feel good after it. Will aim for PMP by HR today, tempo Wednesday and interval Friday. Had planned on possibly doing Eagle 5 on Sunday but will forego it for a 20 mile LSR instead on Sunday.

Krusty_Clown · 22-02-2010 10:59am

Well done Gringo. It's tough doing a long run the day after a hard session, and to do it with no breakfast too! It'll stand to you in the long run (pardon the pun!).

How many 20s are you planning?

Gringo78 · 22-02-2010 11:33am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

How many 20s are you planning?

As many as I can fit in really....3 more hopefully, maybe 4. Unsure will do I do 22, might fit in 1. Time/family contraints make it hard for me to get the long runs in though, I actually don't mind doing them at all.

Gringo78 · 22-02-2010 3:42pm

Feb 22nd

Plan was PMP by HR session with 7 miles at PMP HR. Aim was to keep HR 160-165, preferably closer to 160.

Was surprised that the 7 miles fell out at avg pace 06:39, avg HR 160 as I wasn't really expecting to be much less than 7min/ml pace after LSR on Saturday. I obviously recover fast from the LSR's as I set my 5 mile PB last august 3 days after a 20 miler. I had gone for a 4 mile walk saturday evening and a 2 mile walk on Sunday so there were no ahces from saturday.

Total: 8.1 miles at average pace 06:49, avg HR 157

tisnotover · 22-02-2010 5:20pm

Gringo78 wrote: »

Feb 22nd

Plan was PMP by HR session with 7 miles at PMP HR. Aim was to keep HR 160-165, preferably closer to 160.

Was surprised that the 7 miles fell out at avg pace 06:39, avg HR 160 as I wasn't really expecting to be much less than 7min/ml pace after LSR on Saturday. I obviously recover fast from the LSR's as I set my 5 mile PB last august 3 days after a 20 miler. I had gone for a 4 mile walk saturday evening and a 2 mile walk on Sunday so there were no ahces from saturday.

Total: 8.1 miles at average pace 06:49, avg HR 157

interesting on the HR thing, how did you work that 160 to 165 range out? Is it based off what ya do for avgHR in tempo runs?

Gringo78 · 22-02-2010 6:55pm

tisnotover wrote: »

interesting on the HR thing, how did you work that 160 to 165 range out? Is it based off what ya do for avgHR in tempo runs?

Its based on 2 things:

1. Previous race experience (have worn the HR monitor in last 12 races)
2. Daniels Running Formula estimated HR's based on recent race time and taking into account resting HR and max HR

Daniels estimates for me:

Marathon HR : 83% HRR or 165bpm (Cork '09 I averaged 165)
Half Mar HR: 85% HRR or 168bpm (Blarney averaged 170)
10 mile HR: 87% or 172bpm (Dungarvan averaged 170 - I didn't give 100% in first 5 miles of this and HR shows that)
10k HR: 90% or 175 (Last 10k averaged 176)
5 mile HR: 92% or 179 (averaged 173-175 - was targeting times rather than pushing through the pain barrier in those races so a lot more to give in 5 milers I think)

Since the predicted heart rates are within 1-2bpm of actual, I reckon 165 is about right as a target. Will keep it low 160-162 in connemara, allowing to rise to 165-167 on hills and this is generally what I do in training now. Depending on how I get on in connemara, I may target closer to 165 in Cork.

Even though I averaged 165 in Cork '09, from about 9 miles on I pushed the HR to over 168 which was too much and the average only fell out at 165 cos I fell apart in the last 7 miles.

tisnotover · 22-02-2010 9:32pm

thanks lad. numbers seem pretty much bang on in fairness, be interesting to see how it goes in Connemara as well.

must dig out that book, its gathering dust somewhere in me room!

Gringo78 · 23-02-2010 3:41pm

Feb 23rd

4 miles easy, hilly at avg pace 07:18, avg HR 144. legs felt very fresh today, and showed in the HR - <70% HRR.

Gringo78 · 25-02-2010 8:48pm

Feb 25th

Plan was tempo session with 6 miles @ 6:10 pace. Managed 6 @ 6:10, avg HR for the tempo miles 172.

Total: 7.1 miles at avg HR 167 avg pace 6:24

Consistent with same session I did more than 2 weeks ago so happy with that

Gringo78 · 27-02-2010 2:44pm

Feb 26th

10.3 miles easy, hilly at avg pace 07:25, avg HR 151.

Gringo78 · 27-02-2010 2:53pm

Feb 27th

19.6 miles LSR, at avg pace 07:36, avg HR 144. did this with no breakfast and took no drinks or food with me. found this run very easy in comparison to last weeks, certainly helped not to have done intervals day before

Gringo78 · 01-03-2010 1:30pm

Feb 28th

2.6 miles recovery at avg pace 7:46, avg HR 137

Gringo78 · 01-03-2010 2:00pm

Summary Training So Far:

Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4
26.6|37.5|46.1|36.1

Wk 5|Wk 6|Wk 7|Wk 8
38.1|18.1|41.3|51.7

Avg mpw: 36.9

Tempo|Interval|PMP|LSR|Race|Recovery|Easy
6|7|4|3|1|7|14

February:
Miles Run: 149.2
Days Run: 19

Sosa · 01-03-2010 2:20pm

Remind me again Gringo....Your doing Connemara....is it just to do it or are you going for a time ?
and then your having a crack at sub 3 in Cork...is this right
I just cant remember your plans

Gringo78 · 01-03-2010 3:32pm

Sosa wrote: »

Remind me again Gringo....Your doing Connemara....is it just to do it or are you going for a time ?
and then your having a crack at sub 3 in Cork...is this right
I just cant remember your plans

Original plans in Dec/Jan was Connemara and probably sub 3 attempt in Autumn. Connemara was always meant to be properly trained for and give it as good as I could...just unlikely to be a sub 3 attempt in light of the hills.

I still don't think my target will be sub 3, I'll be running by HR, target max 160, should probably be a 6:40-6:45 pace and hope to hit 22 miles, start of 2 miles incline, at sub 3 pace but will hope to only lose 2min/ml on the hills from 22-24 miles...easier said than done. Probably end up with 3:03-3:05 if everything went well and I get a few more LSR's in.

Didn't plan to do cork back in Jan as I have a wedding in germany that weekend but back now day beforehand in Cork so can do marathon. Whether i actually do it or not, and whether it will be a sub 3 attempt depends on how I get on in connemara and how well I recover from it. If I ran

:10 in connemara I'll be eager to take the next opportunity to go for sub 3 and that would be cork. If I fall apart in connemara it'll be back to the drawing board and probably skip Cork, go for dublin instead.

Sosa · 01-03-2010 4:12pm

A bad experience in connemara could wipe you out for a while,and with Cork only 9 weeks later,you would hardly be ready for a sub 3 attempt.
I know that if i was asked to race a marathon 9 weeks after Dublin last year,i would have laughed at the thoughts.
I did do a half 7 weeks later,but looking back i didnt race that either,i went hard without ever pushing the boundaries.
I hope connemara works out for you.

Gringo78 · 01-03-2010 5:12pm

Sosa wrote: »

A bad experience in connemara could wipe you out for a while,and with Cork only 9 weeks later,you would hardly be ready for a sub 3 attempt.
I know that if i was asked to race a marathon 9 weeks after Dublin last year,i would have laughed at the thoughts.

Yeah, thats what I was trying to get accross above....a bad experience in Connemara means back to the drawing board and NO marathon in Cork. I will only be running cork and going for Sub 3 if connemara goes well. I presently think running to a HR of 160 in connemara is conservative i.e not to the limit. If that proves not to be the case, I will not be ready for another marathon until Dublin. I am only persisting with Connemara as I want to complete this cycle of training and see where I am....there is potentially a lot to learn in connemara which will help me immensely in future marathons.

village runner · 01-03-2010 10:59pm

Gringo78 wrote: »

Yeah, thats what I was trying to get accross above....a bad experience in Connemara means back to the drawing board and NO marathon in Cork. I will only be running cork and going for Sub 3 if connemara goes well. I presently think running to a HR of 160 in connemara is conservative i.e not to the limit. If that proves not to be the case, I will not be ready for another marathon until Dublin. I am only persisting with Connemara as I want to complete this cycle of training and see where I am....there is potentially a lot to learn in connemara which will help me immensely in future marathons.

Why not the half in connemara and full in cork.
Based on 62 min in dungarvan i wouldnt be running at 6.40 for the first 22 miles in Connemara. Only my tuppence worth.
If you ever hit the wall imagine the feeling hitting the wall and having to go up a hill...........Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Gringo78 · 02-03-2010 11:20am

village runner wrote: »

Why not the half in connemara and full in cork.
Based on 62 min in dungarvan i wouldnt be running at 6.40 for the first 22 miles in Connemara. Only my tuppence worth.
If you ever hit the wall imagine the feeling hitting the wall and having to go up a hill...........Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Things change.....going take my chances in Connemara, in marathon training half the battle is just getting to the line!

I won't be running 6:40 for first 22. I'll be starting out at 6:40, I expect that to drift to 6:55 by mile 22 due to HR drift. Factor in a losses on the 1.5ml hill around 13.5 miles in and my average pace at 22 miles will more likely be barely on sub 3 pace best case scenario, certainly not 6:40!

I finish my long runs with a 1 mile uphill run of a similar gradient to connemara hills so I'm hoping that'll stand to me, and try to include tough hills in almost all my runs.

I'm hoping to run closer to 60min or under in Ballycotton, the 62min in Dungarvan was conservatively raced and came off the back of 7 weeks training averaging 24mpw. I expect to hit the line in ballycotton with an avg >40mpw of quality training so there should be a big difference.

Gringo78 · 02-03-2010 3:19pm

March 2nd

Interval Session: Plan was 3 x 1.5miles @ 5:55 pace. Splits were 5:55 (166) / 5:51 (171) / 5:55 (174). Jog Recovery of 02:15 after each rep.

Total: 6 miles at avg pace 6:25, avg HR 164

I seem to be 10sec per mile faster than 4 weeks ago so I think the increased mileage and training is definetly having an effect. Supposedly increasing the average weekly mileage over say a 2 month period by 10mpw in the range 20-60mpw is worth 15sec per mile off 5 mile race time. Could it really be so much???

tisnotover · 02-03-2010 3:30pm

Gringo78 wrote: »

I seem to be 10sec per mile faster than 4 weeks ago so I think the increased mileage and training is definetly having an effect. Supposedly increasing the average weekly mileage over say a 2 month period by 10mpw in the range 20-60mpw is worth 15sec per mile off 5 mile race time. Could it really be so much???

In your case it looks very likely, you can see that in your tempo runs as well, they've come on a long ways too! your looking very good for Ballycotton!

Gringo78 · 02-03-2010 11:05pm

March 2nd

PM Recovery run 5.6 miles at avg pace 8:09 avg HR 137

Gringo78 · 04-03-2010 3:27pm

March 4th

Planned PMP run by HR. Aim to keep HR at 160. 6.25 miles at avg pace 6:53, avg HR 161.

Total: 7.1 at avg pace 6:57 avg HR 159

14sec a mile slower than last week which was no surprise really as have
been sick and tired this week. Shows the benefit of the HR monitor as I would have tried to run too fast without it.

Gringo78 · 05-03-2010 6:00pm

March 5th

easy run 5.1 miles at avg pace 7:10 avg HR 148

Gringo78 · 06-03-2010 10:00pm

March 6th

Had to work today so didn't have time for a 20 miler as planned but managed to do a 17.6 mile LSR at avg pace 7:26, avg HR 147. Aim was to keep the HR under 150 and keep things nice and steady. Felt nice and easy. No water or food on this run and finished with a fairly tough uphill mile at the end. Avg pace and HR for the hill was 8:23 & 162 which was very happy with as its a similar (maybe slightly harsher) gradient as Hell of the West and I'm planning on losing max 2 min/ml on that hill from PMP at HR 165 so well within that today.

Did 17 miles at avg pace 7:56 avg HR 159 in April last year so come on a lot since then....33sec a mile faster with a HR 12 bpm lower.

Gringo78 · 07-03-2010 8:28pm

March 7th

Recovery run, 5 miles at avg pace 8:07 (pushing baby in buggy!)

Gringo78 · 07-03-2010 8:34pm

Summary Training So Far:

Wk 1|Wk 2|Wk 3|Wk 4
26.6|37.5|46.1|36.1

Wk 5|Wk 6|Wk 7|Wk 8
38.1|18.1|41.3|51.7

Wk 9|Wk 10|Wk 11|Wk 12
46.3|||

Avg mpw: 37.9

Tempo|Interval|PMP|LSR|Race|Recovery|Easy
6|8|5|4|1|9|15

Gringo78 · 08-03-2010 4:52pm

March 8th

After nailing 6:10 pace for the last 2 tempos, felt it was time to set the bar higher again and get out of my comfort zone so aim was tempo run with 10km at 6:05 pace. Managed an avg pace of 6:06, avg HR 172 for the 10km - 37:54 for the 10km (my race PB is actually 38:54 for the 10km). HR is almost spot on for a 10 mile race.

Total: 7.1 miles at avg pace 6:19, avg HR 168

Always felt if I could run 6:05 paced 6 mile tempos, it'd be worth going for sub 60min in Ballycotton. 2 weeks to Ballycotton and I think I'm almost there now.

Sosa · 08-03-2010 5:07pm

Gringo78 wrote: »

Always felt if I could run 6:05 paced 6 mile tempos, it'd be worth going for sub 60min in Ballycotton. 2 weeks to Ballycotton and I think I'm almost there now.

Absolutely no sense in not going for it Gringo,worst you could do is 61 mins...so you might aswell have a go.
I went up to Dungarvan looking for sub 62...so that cost me as i did 60:36 and those 36 secs were gone over the first 3 miles.
Next 10 miler i do,i will be having a crack...i didnt think i had a prayer at sub 60,thats why i didnt even contemplate it.

tisnotover · 08-03-2010 5:08pm

Gringo78 wrote: »

March 8th

After nailing 6:10 pace for the last 2 tempos, felt it was time to set the bar higher again and get out of my comfort zone so aim was tempo run with 10km at 6:05 pace. Managed an avg pace of 6:06, avg HR 172 for the 10km - 37:54 for the 10km (my race PB is actually 38:54 for the 10km). HR is almost spot on for a 10 mile race.

Total: 7.1 miles at avg pace 6:19, avg HR 168

Always felt if I could run 6:05 paced 6 mile tempos, it'd be worth going for sub 60min in Ballycotton. 2 weeks to Ballycotton and I think I'm almost there now.

wow, some going, ure def moving up levels doing that in training!

I see ure catching me fairly lively in the 1000mile challenge, my day's are numbered I feel being ahead of ya

Marathon Training v2.0

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