Are the 22000s destined to be IE's last inter-city rolling stock?

Judgement Day

After viewing the proposed redevelopment of Galway station (on the new escalators at Pearse thread !) I got to thinking just what is going on in the West. CIE/IE/BE cook up an elaborate plan for a transport hub at Galway station which is a a thinly veiled plan for a bus-only station and stick in a few platitudes towards the WRC and commuter services to Athenry and expect us to believe they are sincere. Perhaps they are but I suspect not, either way it does not matter as they and the Kildare Street mafia have conspired to make the railway outside Dublin irrelevant to almost everybody bar a few tourists and OAPs - hence the title of this thread. In the not too distant future, when the inter-city railway goes into free fall the 22000s can be recycled onto the Greater Dublin suburban system and the rest of the railway closed down. Any thoughts?

karlr42

Let me play devil's advocate here- is there much demand for the Intercity routes when you compare with the Dublin suburban network? It could well be argued that the train is only an attractive option in the Dublin area because it avoids the congestion, parking hassle and associated stresses inherent with commuting by car to the city centre- beyond the "Pale", the car genuinely is a better choice, down to the greatly improved interurban network.
/ducks

Firstly: what has Ceantt station got to do with escalators in Pearse?

Secondly: That's some conspiracy theory you got going there JD. Considering the works I've seen local to ballinasloe, I can't think of a bridge that hasn't been strengthened against trains passing at higher speeds, and they've only finished all the works in Ballinasloe station there a few months ago. There's a span-new fully accessible platform after being built. If this is meant to lead up to the decline of rail services in the West, then they've sure fooled me!

JD, if you really think that the rail world is going to end at Portarlington, then fair enough. I'm inclined to disagree.

richiek83

No threat to train services to Galway. It is one of the busier routes on the network from Dublin. As far as I'm aware, the Ceannt Station redevelopment will see more platforms at Galway. Only one full size platform at present. If any routes are under threat in the future, it is the Limerick-Waterford and the ballina line. It would be great to see Double Tracking of the Athenry-Galway section in the future. This could speed up journey times especially when the Limerick-Galway section opens. This line will struggle to be viable if journey times lag behind that of travelling by road (M18)

KC61

The moving of the bus station is essential. The current setup is horrendous - it really is completely unsuitable for the level of traffic passing along the road to the side of Ceannt Station.

Judgement Day

Deleted User there's hardly an overbridge in the country that wasn't raised to facilitate container traffic and look where that is today. :rolleyes: Incidentally, the Galway and other western lines could be suffering from the West Cork syndrome - paint all the stations relay all the yards and remove the rail service. Anyway, you're all too young to remember CIE's last big idea - RailPlan 80 - which included such places as Listowel, Castleisland and Clonmel for major redevelopment......need I say more......

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

Deleted User there's hardly an overbridge in the country that wasn't raised to facilitate container traffic and look where that is today. :rolleyes: Incidentally, the Galway and other western lines could be suffering from the West Cork syndrome - paint all the stations relay all the yards and remove the rail service. Anyway, you're all too young to remember CIE's last big idea - RailPlan 80 - which included such places as Listowel, Castleisland and Clonmel for major redevelopment......need I say more......

Entirely possible. but also entirely possible that you're wrong.

richiek83, as far as I've seen, they've left the door open for full double-lining by making sure all bridges would be able to accomodate double track lines. I reckon, myself, that it'd be 15-20 years before we could even look at it though.

dowlingm

Having seen the pics on eiretrains, in fairness three usable platforms would be a big improvement over the one long one and the bendy one there is now! I was particularly appalled at the sight of the Mark 3 set on the bendy platform blocking in a 22K set during a runaround - good job it didn't get stuck! Little wonder DMU ops appeal on the Galway line, but maybe it would have been easier with pushpullised Mark3 Standards, no genvan and a DVGT adapted from the Mark 4 template or modified from the 610x cars?

It's worth looking at the overhead shot of the existing CIE property - there's a lot of land there, just badly used such as the long disconnected Clifden track of which there's a whole 100m left and the turntable (disconnected since CTC).

As for mafias - the first thing to confront is that we spent 100m Euro on a line that is good for nothing but Swan Boats on the behest of a Weshtern Mafia when there could have been a station in Oranmore with a dynamic loop offering both additional passengers and better pathing into Galway. Oh well...

Deleted User wrote: »

richiek83, as far as I've seen, they've left the door open for full double-lining by making sure all bridges would be able to accomodate double track lines

The M7/M9 bridge over the Carlow line? In any case, full double lining isn't required straight away but more loops are.

The building of infrastructure doesn't mean anything. I seem to recall an old saw about the West Cork railway stations being painted before they were closed...

Carawaystick

Is the train from Galway to Dublin cheaper than the Bus?
Are there more train services than bus services?
Does the train serve Dublin city centre?
Is it faster than the bus?

We'll have to wait for the thaw to see about the last question, but the answer to the first three is NO.

And yet, having had the choice for the past 6 years between the direct bus and train service, I've gone train most times.

Dowlingm, AFAIR the line doesn't go near Carlow. Like i said, i reckon 15-20 years before they even look at double tracking it.

I'm with you on the lack of a station in Oranmore. Given its location at the end of the motorway, it would be a perfect place to put a park'n'ride for the city.

Heisenberg1

Judgement Day wrote: »

After viewing the proposed redevelopment of Galway station (on the new escalators at Pearse thread !) I got to thinking just what is going on in the West. CIE/IE/BE cook up an elaborate plan for a transport hub at Galway station which is a a thinly veiled plan for a bus-only station and stick in a few platitudes towards the WRC and commuter services to Athenry and expect us to believe they are sincere. Perhaps they are but I suspect not, either way it does not matter as they and the Kildare Street mafia have conspired to make the railway outside Dublin irrelevant to almost everybody bar a few tourists and OAPs - hence the title of this thread. In the not too distant future, when the inter-city railway goes into free fall the 22000s can be recycled onto the Greater Dublin suburban system and the rest of the railway closed down. Any thoughts?

Man you really are full of it!!!

Judgement Day

luzon wrote: »

Man you really are full of it!!!

And that's some response - did you lie awake all night to come up with it? :rolleyes:

ClovenHoof

Judgement Day wrote: »

After viewing the proposed redevelopment of Galway station (on the new escalators at Pearse thread !) I got to thinking just what is going on in the West. CIE/IE/BE cook up an elaborate plan for a transport hub at Galway station which is a a thinly veiled plan for a bus-only station and stick in a few platitudes towards the WRC and commuter services to Athenry and expect us to believe they are sincere. Perhaps they are but I suspect not, either way it does not matter as they and the Kildare Street mafia have conspired to make the railway outside Dublin irrelevant to almost everybody bar a few tourists and OAPs - hence the title of this thread. In the not too distant future, when the inter-city railway goes into free fall the 22000s can be recycled onto the Greater Dublin suburban system and the rest of the railway closed down. Any thoughts?

I agree. Galway station and infrastructure is on a huge area with sidings all over the place. What CIE want to with it is a joke from a rail aspect. There is no future proofing for extra platforms when the WRC becomes the DART of the West which it will.

Also were is the freight facility at the station? They are making it into an art gallery. Transporting rich nancy boys from D4 to look at paintings of men kissing each other is not freight!

Once again "Nobody Shouted Stop"...

dowlingm

ClovenHoof wrote: »

when the WRC becomes the DART of the West which it will.

Drugs Squad to the ClovenHoof residence... paging the DS...

The reality is that if we want to have a freight facility it's more likely to work where the line intercepts the major orbital routes in places like Galway and Limerick. That doesn't preclude a small loading dock but the more dispersed nature of modern Irish cities mean that a central distribution point is not necessarily most convenient. Ironically, North Esk fit the bill for a modern freight yard - Belview still does.

Seaslacker - my mistake - I thought you meant the entire network rather than Portarlington-Galway. Certainly it looks like some widening will have to be done on bridges like this one for full doubletrack. Ideally I think that any track or overbridges should be cleared to electric overhead dynamic envelope rather than just diesel with an eye to the 2020s/2030s.

invincibleirish

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is no future proofing for extra platforms when the WRC becomes the DART of the West which it will.

ROFL

Judgement Day

What's going in Tralee too? Another Art Gallery? What's going to happen when they extend the Lartigue from Listowel?

Check it out here: www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

Run_to_da_hills

Why is there so many of these trains lying up at the maintenance depot in Roscrea?

Every time I drive past the yard on the M7 the place seems to be full of them. Are these waiting to be commissioned?

I have yet to see a 22000 on the East cost.

karlr42

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why is there so many of these trains lying up at the maintenance depot in Roscrea?

Every time I drive past the yard on the M7 the place seems to be full of them. Are these waiting to be commissioned?

I have yet to see a 22000 on the East cost.

Ever hear of maintenance? Refuelling? Or do you want 100% of the fleet in service 100% of the time, off-peak and peak?
There are 22000s all over Connolly, I saw 3 sets today in one trip from Clonsilla to Pearse. They operate down to Rosslare and back every day.

Calina

I am getting rightly sick of the trolling and nonsense and general bad behaviour that is a feature of many rail related threads lately.

I am also sick of some of the excuses I get for same. I'm sick of handing out bans to people who have previously banned.

If you do not all get your act together and stop throwing your toys out of the pram in the rail threads I will take an even greater interest in locking them. And banning people who cause trouble.

I've already handed out one ban from this thread.

Now either you stay on topic and discuss this subject in a constructive manner or I lock the thread. Again.

Please bear this in mind before you hit submit.

monument

Could a mod please move this thread to the CT board?

Judgement Day

Judgement Day wrote: »

What's going in Tralee too? Another Art Gallery? What's going to happen when they extend the Lartigue from Listowel?

Check it out here: www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

:eek: They're my photos! I took them on Sunday using a camera phone and uploaded them to Irish Railway News.

With the government and IE having no interest in rail freight then it's unlikely that locomotive hauled trains will be returning to Tralee (railtours don't really count) so I can see why it was done. But is freight even viable in Ireland anymore?

I'd love if Listowel still had a rail link but I couldn't see that ever coming back either.

KC61

Not one other poster here has commented on the fact that the Bus Eireann "bus station" is a serious Health & Safety hazard. The whinging on about this that and the other is ludicrous. The present station set up is nowhere near satisfactory.

The bus station needs to be moved and moving it and the station entrance to the old bus garage site will provide a much safer environment for everyone, be they rail or bus passengers.

As for doubling Athenry/Galway - it is perfectly possible to do. However, in the meantime an intermediate signal has been installed about halfway along the section, allowing two trains to operate in the same direction between Galway and Athenry or v.v. once the first train has passed the intermediate signal.

This does allow some additional flexibility in operations.

dowlingm

KC61 - to be fair I don't think anyone was claiming the BE situation was appropriate. For my recollection of getting a bus ex Galway it was a bake and I doubt much has changed since.

Run_to_da_hills: 22Ks are on the east coast but the problem is that only the three car sets will fit the platform at Rathdrum so deploying the six car sets is delayed - IE are short 2 x 6 x 22K due to Rotem's shipping screwup and didn't order any of the ones they did get with factory selective door opening, an omission someone should be made answer for one day given that IE are now using fixed length sets.

richiek83

Deleted User wrote: »

Entirely possible. but also entirely possible that you're wrong.

richiek83, as far as I've seen, they've left the door open for full double-lining by making sure all bridges would be able to accomodate double track lines. I reckon, myself, that it'd be 15-20 years before we could even look at it though.

Agree with you there seaslacker. It is a long way off yet but I'd say it will eventually be done. As another poster said, there is a great opportunity with the new M6. A station at Oranmore in the long term is definitely a possibility. Great opportunity for a successful Park & Ride. The problem is though, we have a company such as CIE running our Rail network a proposal such as this is also a lon, long way off

Slice

When will Galway ever need more than three platforms? Barring a massive expansion of the rail network the only destinations Galway will serve are intercity to Dublin and the commuter service to Limerick. Drogheda would be a busier station and that only has three platforms

KevR

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm with you on the lack of a station in Oranmore. Given its location at the end of the motorway, it would be a perfect place to put a park'n'ride for the city.

I agree.

There is talk of a big Oranmore Park and Ride near the motorway junction, but with buses, not trains. I think this is a bit insane. The buses are still going to get stuck traffic going to and from the City Centre. There is a bus lane along part of the Dublin Road which helps a bit but not enough, there's no room to extend the bus lane.

I think a big Rail Park and Ride at Oranmore along with a frequent commuter rail service Galway-Oranmore-Athenry could work really. If Irish Rail could create more parking spaces at Athenry* it would boost passenger numbers too. Dual tracking from Galway to Athenry will have to happen at some stage also.

*There's a decent sized field across the road from the train station, beside the Garda station which could really boost the number of parking spaces availble at Athenry if Irish Rail could ever get their hands on it.

dowlingm

Slice, bad example. Drogheda is a through station as well as a turnback, Galway is a terminus so dwell times are likely higher, plus Drogheda has a rake of sidings to park stuff so that platforms can be cleared - the Galway sidings are likely to disappear in the redevelopment.

I'm not saying there isn't a good example, just that I don't think Drogheda is the one you want. Three would probably do for now with the Athlone commuter, Limerick and Dublin services but I wouldn't mind seeing a fourth, just a 3-car 22K length maybe, to allow scope for special trains or maintenance on the other three.