Winter tyres

Matt Simis

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Saw crashed cars. Conclusion:they should have invested in winter tyres ( did posters stop and examine the tyres on crashed car? Were they summer tyres or were they worn/illegal? Was it loss of traction caused crash or was it lack of anticipation or care or experience - how many learners are out on ice/snow?)

No one is saying that its impossible to crash on Winters, but realistically without even looking at the specifics, far far less people would crash on Winters (in Winter driving). We know this as every single person using Winters in this thread likely spent 90-99% of the previous Winters driving on Summers and are fully able to make this assertion.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

Saw wheels spinning/car sliding. Conclusion:Owner should have got winter tyres ( How do you know they weren't just inexperienced and would have spun ANY tyre? How do you know they didn't maintain momemtum, paid due care to road conditions etc?)

Have you tried Winter tyres and if so, on what car? With the combination of Traction Control and Winters, its actually hard to spin tyres unless you purposely do so. People spin their tyres in frustration and panic, they wouldnt get to that point on Winters, they would drive out as normal.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

I've absolutely no argument with people investing in winter tyres but don't exaggerate their worth or argue they are a requirement because clearly they are no such thing. Too many drivers are safely driving all weather tyres all over the country without mishap.

I havent seen anyone exaggerating them and it would appear from your post you have no first hand experience to be making any of these claims.
Lots of drivers are out driving on Summers with no Accidents. I was one of them. However they are also driving at a ridiculous 10-20mph as Summers are so unsafe. I havent got to the extremes of the grip Winters offer (in the interest of safety and the fact Im surrounded by slow Summer tyre users) but they can easily grant 250% faster movement in my (AWD) car still with better braking and dramatically better handling than any standard car on "standard" (Summer) tyres at their slo-mo speeds.

PS: To Spook_ie questioning "have we all been using "All Seasons" all along?".. eh no we havent, Summer tyres are standard tyres. Just look at the thread pattern.

Spook_ie

Matt Simis wrote: »

No one is saying that its impossible to crash on Winters, but realistically without even looking at the specifics, far far less people would crash on Winters (in Winter driving). We know this as every single person using Winters in this thread likely spent 90-99% of the previous Winters driving on Summers and are fully able to make this assertion.


Have you tried Winter tyres and if so, on what car? With the combination of Traction Control and Winters, its actually hard to spin tyres unless you purposely do so. People spin their tyres in frustration and panic, they wouldnt get to that point on Winters, they would drive out as normal.


I havent seen anyone exaggerating them and it would appear from your post you have no first hand experience to be making any of these claims.
Lots of drivers are out driving on Summers with no Accidents. I was one of them. However they are also driving at a ridiculous 10-20mph as Summers are so unsafe. I havent got to the extremes of the grip Winters offer (in the interest of safety and the fact Im surrounded by slow Summer tyre users) but they can easily grant 250% faster movement in my (AWD) car still with better braking and dramatically better handling than any standard car on "standard" (Summer) tyres.

PS: To the one questioning "have we all been using "All Seasons" all along?".. eh no we havent, Summer tyres are standard tyres.

Bolded items are of interest

1 If you drive normaly on any tyre in any car in ice and snow you are a danger to any other road user

2 If you drive above 20/25 mph on Winter tyres in ice and snow you are a danger to other road users and to say you would drive at 250% faster is in all probability a criminaly reckless act

3 There is AFAIK no markings that legaly distinguish a summer tyre, how do you know you have summer tyres as opposed to standard tyres?

murphyebass

Matt Simis wrote: »

Have you tried Winter tyres and if so, on what car? With the combination of Traction Control and Winters, its actually hard to spin tyres unless you purposely do so. People spin their tyres in frustration and panic, they wouldnt get to that point on Winters, they would drive out as normal.


I havent seen anyone exaggerating them and it would appear from your post you have no first hand experience to be making any of these claims.
Lots of drivers are out driving on Summers with no Accidents. I was one of them. However they are also driving at a ridiculous 10-20mph as Summers are so unsafe. I havent got to the extremes of the grip Winters offer (in the interest of safety and the fact Im surrounded by slow Summer tyre users) but they can easily grant 250% faster movement in my (AWD) car still with better braking and dramatically better handling than any standard car on "standard" (Summer) tyres.

Really?? This whole winter tyre thing is getting rediculous.

Loads of threads have been started on this topic. And this one continues to bring up the same questions day in day out from people who could have just read the thread from the start! But thats another story.

Lookit its each to their own.

For me I'm happy with driving as safely as I can on all weathers as I feel we really dont get the weather long enough to warrant the winter tyres.
Maybe if I lived out in the country i'd buy them but the hardest part of my journey is getting out of my estate and out of the village which I can deal with. The major roads around Dublin have been pretty good in my opinion. The amount of people driving at rediculous speeds, either painfully slow or way too fast is unreal though. No winter tyres will correct either of these.

Anyway some feel they want/need winter tyres and thats fine. Maybe they need them, maybe they dont.

As for the exagerating part, I personally would see take the amount of posts over this issue as proving the exagerating.

Its typically irish though. Like when the housing boom was on. Everyones buying a house, lets buy a house, everyones buying winter tyres, maybe I should buy winter tyres.

Just my two cent of course.:)

kennyb3

murphyebass wrote: »

The major roads around Dublin have been pretty good in my opinion. The amount of people driving at rediculous speeds, either painfully slow or way too fast is unreal though. No winter tyres will correct either of these.


Its typically irish though. Like when the housing boom was on. Everyones buying a house, lets buy a house, everyones buying winter tyres, maybe I should buy winter tyres.

Just my two cent of course.:)

There you have it - anyone who needs to get off the main gritted roads around dublin needs at least all weather tyres imo and if they want to be more safe - winter tyres. As you said if you lived in the country you d prob buy them. I live in dublin but realise the world doesnt revolve around dublin, hence the extended thread

The other point here is that a) the motor ways are jammed because people are afraid to even go on N roads and b) they are driving ridiculously slow because they are on summers. Hence the country grinds to a halt. If everyone was made to get winters the country would move along like normal.

Have you ever visited austria or germany in the winter? and watched the cars on snow and ice?

And as for the whole we dont get it for long enough - one day is enough to have a serious accident.

kennyb3

Spook_ie wrote: »

Bolded items are of interest

1 If you drive normaly on any tyre in any car in ice and snow you are a danger to any other road user

2 If you drive above 20/25 mph on Winter tyres in ice and snow you are a danger to other road users and to say you would drive at 250% faster is in all probability a criminaly reckless act

3 There is AFAIK no markings that legaly distinguish a summer tyre, how do you know you have summer tyres as opposed to standard tyres?

Please visit germany or austria and watch the cars drive there. Nobody is advising speeding around on a foot of snow, but on lightly covered roads you dont need to go 10-15mph with a set of winters.

Im not sure of the legal bit re marking, but all the major makes either have a sun symbol or a sun and snowflake, or just a snowflake. They wouldnt get away with putting the wrong symbols on in germany or sweden.

murphyebass

kennyb3 wrote: »

There you have it - anyone who needs to get off the main gritted roads around dublin needs at least all weather tyres imo and if they want to be more safe - winter tyres. As you said if you lived in the country you d prob buy them. I live in dublin but realise the world doesnt revolve around dublin, hence the extended thread

The other point here is that a) the motor ways are jammed because people are afraid to even go on N roads and b) they are driving ridiculously slow because they are on summers. Hence the country grinds to a halt. If everyone was made to get winters the country would move along like normal.

Have you ever visited austria or germany in the winter? and watched the cars on snow and ice?

And as for the whole we dont get it for long enough - one day is enough to have a serious accident.

1st . The reason for most of the extended thread is repeated questions and answers.

2nd. You got the first part right. People are just frightened. But I think half of this is they just have no idea how to deal with the conditions, winter tyres or not. I had a woman in front of going up on to the M50 from Finglas there recently who decided it was a good idea to slow down going up hill. Well you can imagine how that went.

3rd. I havent visited these countries but I'm sure they get a lot more than we do. I've seen people compare Ireland and Canada on this issue. Mental stuff.

4th. Granted it is enough to have an accident but at the same time I dont think winter tyres are the be all and end all. Dealing with the conditions, controlling your car etc.. more important in my opinion. The amount of people spinning wheels I see is shockin. Take it handy on the accelerater people seriously not that difficult.

Again I'm not sayin its not bad. Its shockin weather dont get me wrong. I just think common sense and peoples lack of knowledge of how to deal with the conditions and impatience etc are all bigger factors than winter tyres. Especially for people around dublin.

That said my folks work on in a school up in the mountains and back years ago when we were gettin snow still managed to get up the mountain and back down never crashing and that was in an old Escort at the time as far as I remember. And that was proper snow and ice. No winter tyres back then...

ps not sayin thats right either... just makin a point.

kennyb3

murphyebass wrote: »

1st . The reason for most of the extended thread is repeated questions and answers.

2nd. You got the first part right. People are just frightened. But I think half of this is they just have no idea how to deal with the conditions, winter tyres or not. I had a woman in front of going up on to the M50 from Finglas there recently who decided it was a good idea to slow down going up hill. Well you can imagine how that went.

3rd. I havent visited these countries but I'm sure they get a lot more than we do. I've seen people compare Ireland and Canada on this issue. Mental stuff.

4th. Granted it is enough to have an accident but at the same time I dont think winter tyres are the be all and end all. Dealing with the conditions, controlling your car etc.. more important in my opinion. The amount of people spinning wheels I see is shockin. Take it handy on the accelerater people seriously not that difficult.

Again I'm not sayin its not bad. Its shockin weather dont get me wrong. I just think common sense and peoples lack of knowledge of how to deal with the conditions and impatience etc are all bigger factors than winter tyres. Especially for people around dublin.

That said my folks work on in a school up in the mountains and back years ago when we were gettin snow still managed to get up the mountain and back down never crashing and that was in an old Escort at the time as far as I remember. And that was proper snow and ice. No winter tyres back then...

ps not sayin thats right either... just makin a point.

How about people driving properly (easy on accelerator and brakes) on winter tyres how much better would that be? Why not both, no need to chose one over the other.

PS I get what you are saying about comparing to Canada etc, but even over there or in Austria they do get more snow but the snow is ploughed away and roads gritted every half hour or so around major towns, whereas here there is gritting on most M roads, some N and alot of places outside of dublin are a mess.

Im thankful I live in dublin as its not been a huge inconvenience for me. But i do have a problem with the small accountancy firm i work in losing time (and thus money) with employees ringing in late or not coming in because they 'cant get out of their estate' or 'up a hill'.

No doubt this is costing the economy hundreds of millions.

BostonB

I'm in Dublin and my 40 min commute was 2hrs this morning, mainly because the roads that are closed in the park, and most of the usual back roads are impassable. Not having been gritted at all. All the technique in the world won't get you up a hill of pure ice, or polished snow.

Wicklowrider

Matt Simis wrote: »

No one is saying that its impossible to crash on Winters, but realistically without even looking at the specifics, far far less people would crash on Winters (in Winter driving). We know this as every single person using Winters in this thread likely spent 90-99% of the previous Winters driving on Summers and are fully able to make this assertion.

Realistically without even looking at specifics? Are you joking? How can you support a statement that far far less people would crash without specifics?
Its just an opinion, no more or less valid than any other internet expert's.
BTW if you read my post you'll see I actually stated summer tyres were a source of problems. Incidentally are you seriously suggesting that all the people posting here spent 90 - 99% of their previous winters not in control of their cars? Maybe you should just speak for yourself.

Matt Simis wrote: »

Have you tried Winter tyres and if so, on what car? With the combination of Traction Control and Winters, its actually had to spin tyres unless you purposely do so. People spin their tyres in frustration and panic, they wouldnt get to that point on Winters, they would drive out as normal.

I have driven on winter specific tyres on cars for my employers.They were grand but didn't make me consider buying a set as I had no problem with the all weathers I was using. But that misses completely the point I was making - most of the problems I am seeing have little to do with the tyres people are using and those that have to do with tyres are because the tyres are summer rated or worn.

Matt Simis wrote: »

I havent seen anyone exaggerating them and it would appear from your post you have no first hand experience to be making any of these claims.
Lots of drivers are out driving on Summers with no Accidents. I was one of them. However they are also driving at a ridiculous 10-20mph as Summers are so unsafe. I havent got to the extremes of the grip Winters offer (in the interest of safety and the fact Im surrounded by slow Summer tyre users) but they can easily grant 250% faster movement in my (AWD) car still with better braking and dramatically better handling than any standard car on "standard" (Summer) tyres at their slo-mo speeds.

If you haven't noticed exaggerating then you are reading a different thread to me. You have jumped to another conclusion in thinking I have no experience on winter tyres without any reference whatsoever. You have also misread my post - at no time did I say summer tyres are safe in snow or ice. I said the opposite. Where or how did you measure 250% extra ? What kind of speed are you doing on ice road? One last time I was comparing to all season tyres and not once said people should/could be on summer tyres. As a matter of fact I never said they should be any tyre. I have a set of summer tyres and wouldn't drive on them in this weather, they'll bee back on one of my cars in April.

Matt Simis

Spook_ie wrote: »

Bolded items are of interest

1 If you drive normaly on any tyre in any car in ice and snow you are a danger to any other road user

2 If you drive above 20/25 mph on Winter tyres in ice and snow you are a danger to other road users and to say you would drive at 250% faster is in all probability a criminaly reckless act

3 There is AFAIK no markings that legaly distinguish a summer tyre, how do you know you have summer tyres as opposed to standard tyres?

1: "As normal" meaning normal usage of the accelerator and clutch to get moving as opposed to all the crazy crap people are doing, such as holding the pedal to the floor.

2: Right, so let me get this straight, you think in countries used to this weather and with the same Winter tyres the whole country drops to 20mph? Are you for real? You are just going to throw a blacket speed limit on every road, every driver and every car with the only proviso "on snow". Now obviously you cannot go anyway fast on Ice but I can assure you can can drive faster than 20mph if equipped on Snow. Now answer me this, what first hand experience, where and what car and tyres do you have to make all these alarmist statements? I have all 3 drive tyres (RWD, AWD, FWD), 2 full sets of All Seasons, 12 Summers plus 4 spares, and 10 Winters, of 3 brands to test with. I also dont live in a built up area (ie Dublin) and dont have the luxury of treated, cleared or gritted roads.

3: "Summer tyres opposed to standard tyres".. I said Summer tyres are standard tyres. What exactly are you calling standard tyres?


PS: "250%" was obviously a random number, but it isnt a static figure, pending base speed. eg Ive been behind people going slower than lowest speed on my Speedo, I assume 10mph.

Wicklowrider wrote: »

If you haven't noticed exaggerating then you are reading a different thread to me.

I really dont care enough to go through the entire 25page thread to find examples, you are the one making the point (a pointless one IMO) and didnt either. Overall people seemed to be posting some stats, videos the some posting updates they got them fitted and are really impressed. Big woop, I dont see the problem.

murphyebass wrote: »

Really?? This whole winter tyre thing is getting rediculous.

Loads of threads have been started on this topic.
As for the exagerating part, I personally would see take the amount of posts over this issue as proving the exagerating.
Its typically irish though. Like when the housing boom was on. Everyones buying a house, lets buy a house, everyones buying winter tyres, maybe I should buy winter tyres.
Just my two cent of course.:)

Again, if you dont want to talk about them, why are you posting in the thread or even opening it? There is a whole internet out there.
Regarding everyone getting them, a) that would make the road safer for all of us and b) a handful of enthusiasts on a forum doesnt mean "everyone". The fact there is virtually no regular tyre fitter offering them makes this clear. You are now a victim of a false consensus. 99% of the public doesnt have Winters and most never even heard of them.

Lol at your attempt to make a handful of people trying to drive safer over Winter have anything in common with a national Housing Boom (/crisis). I mean seriously, why bother?

Mena

A lot of QQ'ing here, but have the nay sayers experienced the difference? I have. Night and day (or grip and no grip to be precise).

Winter Tyres should be a legal requirement November to March in Ireland, snow or not.

Perhaps it's a more pronounced difference for me since I drive a RWD, but the change is unreal.

Stevie Dakota

murphyebass wrote: »

Its typically irish though. Like when the housing boom was on. Everyones buying a house, lets buy a house, everyones buying winter tyres, maybe I should buy winter tyres. )

What a load of b*llsh1t. People are buying these things now after 2 grim consecutive winters. The fact that they are nearly sold out throughout Europe illustrates that there is a real need for them, as well a lot of Irish included who live outside the capital. Most people have done their homework and especially here know their onions. I don't know many who can afford to drop €400 plus on a whim while keeping up with Joanses, and tyres are not that sexy.

So good luck to all the people who manage to make progress on their summer tyres with their supreme driving skill, you're all invited to lunch on sunday and good luck getting anywhere near my house!

GTE

Spook_ie wrote: »

Know what you mean, but I was just looking for info on summer matkings for tyres and there doesn't ( haven't found any yet ) seem to be anything.

I did come across this little gem though

Im sorry but that is the most obvious thing I have read on the boards in the past few weeks.

Of course an All Season tyre isn't going to be as good in the snow as a full Winter.

It is interesting what it said about ice testing but the rest of it is Captain Obvious stuff.

With regards to your question about who actually drives on All Seasons and Summers I have checked the few cars in my family (including mine before I changed over) and none claim to be All Weather ones and none hold the Mountain and Snowflake mark so they have to be general Summer rated tyres with regards to temps, rain, dry etc.

It is simple to find out by looking at what stock is pushed by tyre dealers and seeing how eiretyres and the likes rates them.
__________

With regards to kennyb3's post
I would only agree on his comment that an All Weather/All Season tyre would suit some people better then Winters if those tyres carried the Mountain and Snowflake mark.

__________

For the Irish situation I think the term Summer tyre is a general tyre that doesnt claim to be of any good use in the Winter. I do see some tyres that have a diagram of the sun and rain but Id call that a Summer tyre for us or at a push an All Weather one given that a lot of all weathers dont come designed for snow.

__________

Winter spec tyres (Tyres with the snowflake symbol) are the ones we need for this weather IMO. From there the question can be asked does one want more of a motorway style tyre or a chunky snow one or an in between.

_________

Summer tyres are useless in this weather and even with a skilled driver in control of the car the car does not have the most grip it could have considering there are easilly obtainable Winters that could fit the car.

It would be better to have skilled drivers at the hands of all the vehicles on our roads but that doesn't somehow move the limit of grip to a level that one will never reach.

_________

Of course if you have an idiot driving with winters you will have an idiot on the roads that is dangerous however that is not what this thread is dealing with. Perhaps an Winter Driving Education thread would be more suitable

_________

IMO, Winter Spec tyres should be made compulsory or at the very least people found with Summer tyres on in the season of Winter gets the book thrown at them for being inconsiderate drivers.

_________

The Ireland comparison to Canada is an extreme one in terms of the level of snowfall we get but the poster who commented on that is forgetting that thing we do have in common with the Canadian roads when we take snow out of the equation is that road temps are below the general Summer tyre operating temp.

__________

No poster here whose opinion is worth respecting is saying that Winter tyres mean you can drive as you would in the Summer. The main point is that when you need the grip of a Winter spec tyre for example if you found yourself in need of avoiding an obstacle , getting a blow out and controlling the car, situations when heavy braking is needed you will be far beyond what an average Summer spec tyre could give you.

In the snow the Winter tyre will let you go faster then if you were going on Summers but it is still no where near what people would be driving like if the road was free of snow and ice.

In the bone dry winter specs are still better than summers due to the road temps.

________

On the note of All Season/Weather tyres.

I have a full set on my car and they are much much better at the slow speed basic things like cornering and braking then my old Summers.
Having said that I went for them on the backs of a few group tests which said they were "Exemplary". Looking at the other All Seasons in the test I think only one other held the Mountain and Snowflake mark which also scored "Exemplary".

What I am saying is that although I am an advocate of going for All Seasons as I see Winters as a bit too much effort for my driving there are only two All Seasons which in my opinion can work in the snow.

________

BostonB

Rule of thumb. If they play banjo music. Its too far outside the city.

Stealthirl

Spook_ie wrote: »

Bolded items are of interest

1 If you drive normaly on any tyre in any car in ice and snow you are a danger to any other road user

2 If you drive above 20/25 mph on Winter tyres in ice and snow you are a danger to other road users and to say you would drive at 250% faster is in all probability a criminaly reckless act

1 yest but with good winters you are not as much of a risk

2 driveing at 20/25 on winters is still dangerous but not as much as driveing the same speed on summers

BostonB

On checking I've summers on mine. Might be curious to see what others have, so...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113872

Biglad

What's going on here then, I'm out for a day and come back to this, mostly nonsense, in my honest and humble opinion.

Winter tyres are a better option in the "winter driving" conditions than summer or all weather tyres, fact, proven by many industry experts with reports, video evidence etc. Please don't try to argue that.

Are they the be all and end all, well when it comes to driving on untreated or, as happens here, sometimes treated and sometimes untreated roads depending on how much salt and grit our councils can afford, then yes, I think they are. They will ofcourse not stop all accidents from happening unfortunately, but they would be a great help. As we now all know many German and now also many of my fellow Dutch country men change to winter tyres the way they change to their long johns, winter is here, let's be prepared. And the climate in Holland is very comparable with Ireland, just incase somebody wants to bring that up...

If you put a lunatic, boy racer or learner/unexperienced driver in a power full enough to spin wheels, than they definately will do so, either on purpose because their girlfiends think it's cool or because of a lack of experience, anxiety or maybe even frustration. And yes they will be able to spin winters in the snow too. But when they ahve to brake at a junction they might actually have a chance with winters, that's the difference.

To me winter tyres offer the traction and road contact in winter driving conditions that give me a head start on the non winter tyre runners. It get's me down the hill and up the hill without having to grit my drive after every dusting of snow, it allows me to travel in a safe fashion at reasonable speed on the countries roads, no matter what condition they are in (within limits) and they get me home safely. They allow me to stop when I want to stop which is especially handy at those downhill junctions, they allow me to go to work instead of sitting at home all day watching those little birdies eating those grease balls and it get's my wife to school to teach the childrens. Sorry, got distracted there.

I was going to go on and quote some of the non believers nonsense that was posted earlier but i could not be ars... bothered.

Drive safe all, with or without them:D

And do keep the positive driving reports coming in

sponge_bob

i got 2 winter tyres fitted to my van yesterday and i havn't got stuck since:D and just to put it into prospective neither did i get stuck before i put them on:D.
however i did go over to my brothers lastnight and he said the right test of these tyres was a sharp steep hairpin turn a bit over the road from him that has 4" of ice and compacted snow on it all week and no car or 4 wheel drive has successfully gotten around it in one continous whip since the big freeze had started. i wasn't holding out a whole lot of hope of getting around this but the van/tyres did pull around and the only thing that made me stop was the turning circle of the van was unable to take the turn in one lock.

tl:dr:
i think they work;)

peasant

Geez ...how complicated can one make it?

In wintery conditions (read: snow, slush, ice) any proper, purpose made winter tyre is better than any summer tyre.

Fact.

With that out of the way, whether (it's worth it for) you go and buy some is up to other factors:

-How bad is the weather actually going to get? ...this year you lost already
-How much do you need your car? Can you just park it till the thaw?
-Where do you drive/live? Along reasonably well cared for roads or in the shticks
-What's the terrain like where you drive ...flat and straight or hilly and bendy?

Weigh it up for yourselves and stop arguing

Piri

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AoeJCGufq8

Piri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkztWJZUcXI&feature=player_embedded#!

PaulKK

While I don't disagree with the fact that winters are better than summers for the conditions we are currently experiencing, in my opinion the average motorist in this country does not need to buy winter tyres.

I have a 320d, and have had no issues for the past couple of weeks in these conditions doing approximately 400 miles. Initially I had considered getting some part worn winters for a set of 16" alloys I have, but I decided against it.

All it takes is some common sense, gentle acceleration, slow down using your gears, and take it nice and easy.

All these people scare mongerering out there who say you have to park up your "beemer" when its snowing need to learn how to drive.

I have Goodyear Eagle F1s on the front and Falken FK452 on the back on wide 18" alloys, I also have a few bags of building sand in the boot

And before anyone says I am not driving in bad conditions:

copacetic

they are some pretty flat roads, or course there are no problems!

It's still pretty difficult to get in and out of any hilly estate in the mornings no matter what 2 wheel drive car you have, expecially busy ones with queues to get out into static traffic.

BostonB

PaulKK wrote: »

...
And before anyone says I am not driving in bad conditions:...

Not trying to be smart, but that doesn't look bad at all. Not much snow, and not even that icy.

I've been going through roads with far more snow than that or polished like a mirror. Hills as well, and many of them are now closed off. I assume its much worse in other places.

But those photos look very tame.

Matt Simis

400 miles on that road on Summers? I assume at an average speed of 25kph it took you about a month to traverse as well as being less than pleasant.
If you had just tried Winters you would have got where you were going faster with a safety cushion you have completely (willfully) omitted doing what you are doing.

No one is saying its impossible to drive on Summers, the point is thats its just dumb when you get such a massive improvement for minimal investment (remember you will get around 5 years out of the tyres).

All you have saved is EUR160 (16" Part Worn by 4). EUR160 spread over 4-5years... just how little value do you put on safety and progress.

PaulKK

I knew someone would say there were no hills, I have taken on quite a few thanks both rural roads and in housing estates. The pics show the least snow on the road at the beginning of the bad weather, it was much heavier since, and yes, there is ice underneath it.

I'm not saying I'm a great driver either by the way, just that the average motorist should be able to handle it with some cop on.

Matt, I never said I wanted a medal and I am not disputing the fact that winters have advantages in these circumstances, but I feel for the couple of weeks of snow we get, driving with some sense will do just fine too, and that it is achievable with rwd.

Also, surprisingly it doesnt take 'months' to get where I'm going, I found a 20 minute journey taking about 5 or 6 minutes longer than usual, so not a big deal.

Biglad

PaulKK wrote: »

I knew someone would say there were no hills, I have taken on quite a few thanks both rural roads and in housing estates. The pics show the least snow on the road at the beginning of the bad weather, it was much heavier since, and yes, there is ice underneath it.

I'm not saying I'm a great driver either by the way, just that the average motorist should be able to handle it with some cop on.

Matt, I never said I wanted a medal and I am not disputing the fact that winters have advantages in these circumstances, but I feel for the couple of weeks of snow we get, driving with some sense will do just fine too, and that it is achievable with rwd.

Also, surprisingly it doesnt take 'months' to get where I'm going, I found a 20 minute journey taking about 5 or 6 minutes longer than usual, so not a big deal.

If with it you mean the road in your pictures then I agree!!

A nice straight bit of flat road, quiet, with a little snow and ice. With some care and attention that should not be a problem, for most drivers. The problem could arrise however at the first bend, junction, tractor, bit of the road where the camber goes straight to the ditch or when it starts to go uphill etc. Not taking the mickey here bud, just trying to put it in to perspective.

And why do so many people keep referring to snow only when discussing winter tyres?

If I was given 1 Euro for every situation that I have come across since the snow started falling, where vehices either got stuck or off the road because of a lack of traction, parked at the bottom of the hill because they can't get up to their houses, pushed by caring and considdered fellow road users, slid on to a junction because they couldn't stop etc. I would have been able to get my winter tyres for free.:D

Edit: keep that sand in the boot, it might come in handy twice lol

PaulKK

Biglad wrote: »

If with it you mean the road in your pictures then I agree!!

A nice straight bit of flat road, quiet, with a little snow and ice. With some care and attention that should not be a problem, for most drivers. The problem could arrise however at the first bend, junction, tractor, bit of the road where the camber goes straight to the ditch or when it starts to go uphill etc. Not taking the mickey here bud, just trying to put it in to perspective.

Hey, I know what you're saying. Look, the pics are probably a bad example, they were just convieniant for me to take, but I was just illusrating that the roads were completely untreated. Believe me, there are lots of hills and bends around and the have presented no problems.

I have still found though, that by driving smoothly in a higher gear than normal, you should have no major problems even on decent inclines.

If you want to get winters then work away, as I said they have a purpose. I am meerly saying that as an average driver I am coping just fine on my summer tires driven from the back.

BostonB

I was expecting something more like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNvXGc79aY&feature=related

Matt Simis

PaulKK wrote: »

Also, surprisingly it doesnt take 'months' to get where I'm going, I found a 20 minute journey taking about 5 or 6 minutes longer than usual, so not a big deal.

Well then clearly you are dealing with better conditions (less snow, less ice, better treated etc) on the road than the rest of us!