Winter tyres

Biglad

If you want to keep driving as normal as possible in the winter put on winter tyres, if you don't mind creeping around and having the odd "moment" or get stuck on your drive then don't. If you have extraordinairy driving skills that do not require winter tyres than leave them alone and rely on your skills. If in doubt put on the best all weathers you can find, maybe they work for you.

I have to laugh at how this country comes to a virtually stand still with people stranded on motorways even and there are people on here "questioning" the use of winter tyres. Maybe a large part of the population complains like mad about the weather and the terrible conditions but are at the same time happy enough not having to go in in the morning.

I brought this topic up this morning whilst talking to a german business associate and he had to laugh. According to him by far the majority of german drivers, especially the clever ones, were already using winters as standard. He could not believe that anybody would argue against them, even in Ireland (he lived here for 7 years).

Are we really talking about the average temperatures of speed skating ice...

Spook_ie

I can see it now, everyone is putting on Winters and thinking they can drive like they're at Mondello, regardless of the conditions, because "These are winter tyres I have on, sure I can drive twice as fast as I did before and I can keep up closer to the guy in front 'cos me winters are deadly at grip!""
God save us all!

Matt Simis

Manic Moran, I assume you are now taking the piss. My last post made it clear what are the easist and most direct way to get the best tyres for winter driving , specifically on the oddities with All Season purchasing. Im not replying on the semantics of the wording any more.

Spook_ie wrote: »

I can see it now, everyone is putting on Winters and thinking they can drive like they're at Mondello, regardless of the conditions, because "These are winter tyres I have on, sure I can drive twice as fast as I did before and I can keep up closer to the guy in front 'cos me winters are deadly at grip!""
God save us all!

Ok.

GTE

Manic Moran wrote: »

With respect, the German law mandates a certain level of winter capability, that doesn't mean to say that it mandates that the mountain snowflake be present on the tyre. (Doesn't mean to say it doesn't either, I don't know what it says). By way of comparion, California law mandates acceptability of the M&S rating in certain snow conditions, without requiring the level of the mountain snowflake.

In other words, all mountain snowflake tyres are winter tyres. Are all winter tyres mountain snowflake? I think that very much depends on the larger context.



That's just it though. Whilst we agree on the basic principles behind the distinctions, I think we are diverging on the applicability thereof. Surely the point of the thread is "What tyres should I get to have an acceptable level of grip in this Winter weather", not "What tyres are winter tyres"? To that end, the purchase of extreme winter tyres which will require replacing in the summer vs the purchase of 'acceptable winter capability which are also acceptable in the summer' becomes a factor to someone who does not have an unlimited budget.



The nominal temperature for the ice in an ice rink varies depending on the intended use. NHL (Professional Ice Hockey) temperature range is -9.5C to -5C, you have -7.5C to -6C for speed skating, for example. On the other hand, Curling is -4.5C to -3.3C.

NTM

The reason that the Mountain and Snowflake mark is being mentioned so much (and I think I may have a part to play in this) is that the M&S mark is meant to be less reliable then the Mountain and Snowflake mark in terms of what a tyre has to do to get the mark, at least from what I have understood from some Internet sources. Hardly reliable but the Snowflake mark is based in fact.

That may be why the Snowflake mark is pushed more then the M&S one in this thread.

With regards to what is in bold the newer All Seasons come with the Mountain and Snowflake mark so now you can have a tyre that gives an acceptable level of grip in the snow and cold roads which you can have fitted all Summer long UNLESS you demand a very high performance Summer tyre for your car. Having said that that doesn't mean that the scope for having winters and switching to Summers is gone.

Stemming from that you could ask why would a person want an extremely high performance Summer tyre when a simple set of Cooper Zeons will give acceptable grip driving adjusted. For me the fact is I need winter spec tyres to run with acceptable grip but the question is now should I go for more extreme Winters (Same as higher performance Summers) or go for one that is more suited to my driving (a good all season).

Spook_ie,
Everyone is not saying that you can put on Winters and drive like you are in Mondello. Such a blanket statement in response to a select few people who dont agree with your point of view and express that is both unhelpful and daft which results in only prolonging the mess that parts of this thread have become which unfortunately makes your unhelpful posts seem like they are well placed and called for.

You have made your view clear that you think along the lines that a good driver with Summers in good condition can be safe on our roads. I disagree and have made my reasons clear however I have a problem when you make posts that chuck me into a generalisation of everyone thinking they can drive much faster and tail gate. They are unfounded in real terms and like I have said these people should just be ignored.

In terms of what is constructive in this thread i think your posts have failed in that more recently.

This thread should be closed and replaced with the constructive posts and conclusions or cleaned up to get rid of the many circles that we go around.

BrianD3

I can see it now, everyone is putting on Winters and thinking they can drive like they're at Mondello, regardless of the conditions, because "These are winter tyres I have on, sure I can drive twice as fast as I did before and I can keep up closer to the guy in front 'cos me winters are deadly at grip!""
God save us all!

Well this evening driving home I encountered some of the worst driving conditions in my 15 years/400k miles of driving. I was driving at <10 mph and even in a straight line that was too fast in several places :eek: Numerous brown trouser moments might have been prevented with winter tyres.

I actually tried to buy winter tyres recently and the closest I got was a place in NI that might be able to get them in a week or two. Might. Other places I tried said they had never been asked for them before, didn't have them in stock and wouldn't be getting any in. One fella looked at me like i had 5 heads "winter tyres sure what do ya need dem for"

Anan1

Out of interest, has anyone here bought winter tyres and found them not to be worthwhile? Or are the anti winter tyre brigade united in not having tried them?:)

BostonB

Spook_ie wrote: »

I can see it now, everyone is putting on Winters and thinking they can drive like they're at Mondello, regardless of the conditions, because "These are winter tyres I have on, sure I can drive twice as fast as I did before and I can keep up closer to the guy in front 'cos me winters are deadly at grip!""
God save us all!

I think your imagination is getting ahead of itself. Most people simply want to get to work, and home from it.

Biglad

bbk wrote: »

The reason that the Mountain and Snowflake mark is being mentioned so much (and I think I may have a part to play in this) is that the M&S mark is meant to be less reliable then the Mountain and Snowflake mark in terms of what a tyre has to do to get the mark, at least from what I have understood from some Internet sources. Hardly reliable but the Snowflake mark is based in fact.

That may be why the Snowflake mark is pushed more then the M&S one in this thread.

With regards to what is in bold the newer All Seasons come with the Mountain and Snowflake mark so now you can have a tyre that gives an acceptable level of grip in the snow and cold roads which you can have fitted all Summer long UNLESS you demand a very high performance Summer tyre for your car. Having said that that doesn't mean that the scope for having winters and switching to Summers is gone.

Stemming from that you could ask why would a person want an extremely high performance Summer tyre when a simple set of Cooper Zeons will give acceptable grip driving adjusted. For me the fact is I need winter spec tyres to run with acceptable grip but the question is now should I go for more extreme Winters (Same as higher performance Summers) or go for one that is more suited to my driving (a good all season).

Spook_ie,
Everyone is not saying that you can put on Winters and drive like you are in Mondello. Such a blanket statement in response to a select few people who dont agree with your point of view and express that is both unhelpful and daft which results in only prolonging the mess that parts of this thread have become which unfortunately makes your unhelpful posts seem like they are well placed and called for.

You have made your view clear that you think along the lines that a good driver with Summers in good condition can be safe on our roads. I disagree and have made my reasons clear however I have a problem when you make posts that chuck me into a generalisation of everyone thinking they can drive much faster and tail gate. They are unfounded in real terms and like I have said these people should just be ignored.

In terms of what is constructive in this thread i think your posts have failed in that more recently.

This thread should be closed and replaced with the constructive posts and conclusions or cleaned up to get rid of the many circles that we go around.

I second that motion, to much nonsense entering a healthy discussion.

Biglad

"Stand by for more snow, -10C chills and a white Christmas

THE weather expert who first predicted Ireland’s Big Freeze says it will get even colder next week as a "once-in-a-lifetime" Siberian weather event brings -10C temperatures, six inches more snow and a white Christmas.


Meteorologist Brian Gaze issued a weather warning on November 16 for a cold snap lasting over a week, with country-wide snow and -8C temperatures.

Met Éireann caught up a week later, on November 23, warning of cold weather, but amazingly said there would be no snow.

Mr Gaze has been proved right as widespread snow has caused transport chaos and closed schools.

Now the long-range forecaster, of independent company The Weather Outlook, says next week will be even colder as the freak cold spell stretches to a month to last beyond Christmas — something he says we will never see repeated in our lifetimes.

Six inches of snow are expected as Siberian winds bring a bitter but white Christmas to Ireland.

Mr Gaze said: "It’s very unusual to have such an intense and long-lasting cold spell, especially this early in the winter.

"This cold spell is a once-in-a-lifetime event. We’ll probably never see it again. It’s being caused by repeated high pressure north of Britain, blocking mild weather from the west and allowing bitterly cold air from Siberia and the Arctic to sweep across the country.

"It’s increasingly likely it will get even worse later next week, persisting through Christmas week and bringing very wintry conditions.

"Cold weather is expected to affect Ireland, with a risk of snow showers and severe overnight frosts. Inland, parts of Ireland could fall as low as -10C.

"During the Christmas period itself, Ireland is at risk of persistent snow as weather fronts bringing precipitation may push in from the Atlantic, bringing up to six inches of snow.

"The prospects for a white Christmas are good. Christmas Day itself may be very cold, with snowfall in places, and other areas already having snow on the ground.

"The cold is expected to persist beyond Christmas Day, but to break — at least temporarily — in time for new year.":D

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/stand...#ixzz17WPx2K84

I hope he is right, again

Hauptfeldwebel

I think I can compare tyres very well here with my last 3 weeks experience

Car 1 is 320bhp/350ft/lbs RWD and an auto[no snow mode], no ABS or traction control of an early 90's vintage.

Was running 245/40R18 Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tyres.

Treated roads or roads with fresh snow were not a problem, but on the untreated roads or where there was compacted snow/ice [talking 2" ice that a spade could barely dint] No hope of moving if I was stopped without help. When I did get moving slowly I was basically crabbing up the road in the ruts at about a 10 degree angle at times.

Got a set of 225/45R17 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 on a spare set of alloys and on the aforementioned snow/ice the difference was night and day.

I was able to stop with confidence, turn without worrying the back end would slide out and get going without help while still finding their performance on the treated roads comparable to the Potenza's

Car 2 is a modern 130bhp diesel tiptronic FWD with ABS and traction control

Had 205/55R15 Bridgestone Turanza E300 tyres

Same road conditions as above.

Dealt with the conditions much better mainly due to electronic traction [ABS/Traction control] easier to stop and go, but still struggled with cornering and following ruts in the ice.

Got a set of 195/65R15 Continental Winter-Contact 830 on and the ABS and traction control lights rarely come on now and I can corner much better then before

If you want the safest option in whether like this there is no argument winters are the only option

Ask yourself could you live with the guilt of killing someone just because you couldn't stop soon enough where the winters might have saved the life [granted this is taking the extreme view]

Just because you haven't had an incident yet doesn't mean you wont !
And having winters on doesn't mean you wont have 1 it just decreases the RISK you might.

Wicklowrider

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I don't know any of the above.

And yet you expect people to give credence to your opinions?

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

But I do know that I live on the N81, a dual carriageway and main artery into and out of the city and adjacent to some of the richest and well cared for areas in Dublin. The N81 was a skating rink at times, unusable at others and still has patches of black ice on it which other drivers seem to be completely unaware of. Every side road was pure ice.

And I drive a lot in the Dublin/Wicklow mountains as well as the motorways etc. Not once have I come close to being concerned for safety on all seasons. I stopped to chat with a postman near Glencree 2 days ago. I checked the tyres he was on and they were all season. He told me he was enjoying driving in this weather. Also checked the Garda car in Roundwood - again all season tyres. Does any of this mean that I think everyone should be on all seasons?Not at all. If Winter tyres get you through the night go ahead and I wish you all the best. If I had any advise it would be that summer tyres are a bad idea and I'd leave it at that.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

As for letting people trust their own judgement. I don't, never have and never will. There are far too many complete and total morons who cannot be allowed to do so for the good of others. The NCT was brought in for this. The driving test was brought in for this. The traffic laws were brought in for this. And if this type of winter weather becomes the normal, compulsory winter tires will be brought in for this. Get used to it, you don't live in a "Free" society.

This so bizarre its difficult to address rationally.
You don't ever travel by air? - if you do you trust an awful lot of people. Did you mount those tyres yourself - because if you did not ,chances are some stranger did it for you and you had no choice but to trust them. Do you do ALL your own repairs and maintenance... Enough examples.
Citing possible future legislation is pointless - we were debating the merits of Winter tyres. If its law, its law and no point debating further. BTW - in Minnesota where they typically have 3 - 4 feet of snow and they drive over the lakes to Canada at this time of the year many people drive safely and without mishap on All season tyres. There is no legal requirement for winter tyres there and no stats to support danger associated with All season tyres. Rational and reasonable people understand that Insurance stats exist for any quantifiable risk.

bbam

Questions..

I've been ringing round and can't get winter tyres, non in stock locally, one dealer will have some in next Saturday--- probably.

Anyone know where in Cavan/Meath area that has winters in stock that I could get fitted tomorrow?

Looking on Eiretyres I am wondering about the different brands..

These are ~€90 a corner and get 3.5/5 stars http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=12959109.124.16337&typ=D-104922&ranzahl=4&Breite=205&Quer=55&Felge=16&Speed=L&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=20&sort_by=preis&Transport=P&dsco=124&sowigan=Wi

These are ~€148 a corner and get 4/5stars form the same testers, http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=12959109.124.16337&typ=D-109033&ranzahl=4&Breite=205&Quer=55&Felge=16&Speed=L&weiter=40&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=20&sort_by=preis&Transport=P&dsco=124&sowigan=Wi

Question is would I be better off with my standard tyres (nearly new) than the cheap winters ? €50 a corner more is alot for only a half star more in the tests..

The car is a petrol Zaferia and is quite skittish with poor traction in the bad weather compared to our Diesel Passat

Smokey Bear

What is the difference between these two tyre specs?

205/55 R16 94V XL

205/55 R16 91H

Both specs are available in Continental WinterContact TS 830 but a price difference of €30 .Just confused what is what?

Thanks

opinion guy

Hauptfeldwebel wrote: »

Got a set of 225/45R17 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 on a spare set of alloys and on the aforementioned snow/ice the difference was night and day.

How much and where ?

Anan1

Smokey Bear wrote: »

What is the difference between these two tyre specs?

205/55 R16 94V XL

205/55 R16 91H

Both specs are available in Continental WinterContact TS 830 but a price difference of €30 .Just confused what is what?

Thanks

The number (91/94) is load rating, the letter is speed rating (H=130mph, V=149mph) I think XL stands for extra load, but i've no idea what it means in this context. Check your car handbook to find out what you need.

slimjimmc

Anan1 wrote: »

The number (91/94) is load rating, the letter is speed rating (H=130mph, V=149mph) I think XL stands for extra load, but i've no idea what it means in this context. Check your car handbook to find out what you need.

Yeah, XL = reinforced tyres, normally put them onto vans & such that carry heavy loads.
Usually they have a stiffer side-wall hence they may take longer to warm up. I imagine they would be ok on standard family saloon, just less comfortable.

http://www.tyres-pneus-online.ie/reading-tyre-markings-advice.html

Rockery Woman

I am buying winter tyres - hopefully tomorrow, they may need to be ordered especially I dont know but after the week Ive had - its time to bite the bullet and buy them.

But Im wondering which car I should get them for?? which car do you guys think I should buy extra hubs and winter tyres for?

My own car is a 07 VW Golf 1.6 Petrol

My husbands car is 03 Peugeot 307 1.4 Petrol.

Some of my mates advised me to fit them to the older car (Peugeot) as it wouldnt be as big a deal if I crashed it compared to the more valuable 07 model. However my own car seem to be a stronger car which tends to hold the road a little better. Any advice????

The tyres on both cars are actually same size but the hubs on the Peugeot have 4 nuts, the VW has 5!

Stealthirl

Personaly i would put them on what ever car is most likely to be driveing on the worst roads/used more.

dose eather car have traction control ?
im fairly certain both would have ABS ?

Esel

mouseybrown wrote: »

trying to get meself a set of winter tyres just rang autodepot and they quoted me 55- 60 euro each for 2pirrelli/2dunlop as thats all they have? he said they were part worn winter tyres . how do i no real winter tyres and im not just been ripped off with cheapo tyres?? need them asap as rwd hasnt moved in 2 weeks thanks!!!

Look for the Mountain and Snowflake mark on the sidewall.

opinion guy

Rockery Woman wrote: »

Some of my mates advised me to fit them to the older car (Peugeot) as it wouldnt be as big a deal if I crashed it compared to the more valuable 07 model.

What ???? This makes absolutely no sense You are less likely to crash with winter tyres on

TheBazman

Might be a worthwhile comparison - we have 2 e60 5-series, one on summers and one on winter(m&s). The one on winters has been massively more sure footed. In fact last night the road up a hill into our estate was like a skating rink. My wife with the winter tyres drove up with not much drama. I spent 2 hours with neighbours trying to dig a track and push mine up, as well as a Clio, Passat cc, a twin wheeled van. Hers with the winter tyres was the only one that drove up unaided.

bbam

Hi..
Anyone know anywhere in the north east that has winters in stock??
Thanks

kennyb3

Have a look at the waether forum - get the snow tyres on for next friday

mouseybrown

for anyone interested ...

got the winter tyres fitted on thursday and have to say i would definitly recommend them :)

SV

I may very well have 8 winter tyres spare soon enough.

185/55/15 Nokian WR G2s if anyone is interested, I'll see what happens.
Hopefully they arrive soon.

Rockery Woman

Stealthirl wrote: »

Personaly i would put them on what ever car is most likely to be driveing on the worst roads/used more.

dose eather car have traction control ?
im fairly certain both would have ABS ?

yep both have ABS - Golf has traction control - Ill get them on the Golf! I use it more.

Rockery Woman

opinion guy wrote: »

What ???? This makes absolutely no sense You are less likely to crash with winter tyres on

I actually live on a mountain (yes really) tractors were getting stuck in my area (no kidding). I would be much more likely to end up in a ditch than most, maybe my post wasnt very informative.

I missed over a week of work due to the bad weather, I havent the confidence or the skill to drive in such conditions.(even though I have been driving for 16 years - I was terrified!)

But you are telling me I am less likely to crash with the winter tyres and to me thats an excellent reason to buy them - I really hope I can get them though, before Friday!

JJJJNR

If you live up a mountain do not rely on just winter tires, have a winter pack in your car also consisting of snow chains, tow rope and a bag of sand. If your worried that you might be caught on the way home from work in a blizzard pack a good blanket, a bottle of water, chocolate, and a torch also.

copacetic

JJJJNR wrote: »

If you live up a mountain do not rely on just winter tires, have a winter pack in your car also consisting of snow chains, tow rope and a bag of sand. If your worried that you might be caught on the way home from work in a blizzard pack a good blanket, a bottle of water, chocolate, and a torch also.

and a shovel, warm waterproof jacket and trousers,hat, glooves and boots. Also keep you car with as full a tank of fuel as possible in case you get badly stuck and have to stay overnight in it and run the heaters as much as possible.

peasant

copacetic wrote: »

and a shovel, warm waterproof jacket and trousers,hat, glooves and boots. Also keep you car with as full a tank of fuel as possible in case you get badly stuck and have to stay overnight in it and run the heaters as much as possible.

A decent jacket and good shoes will do ...because if you get that badly stuck, you just abandon the car and walk to the next neighbour.

This is Ireland ...not Siberia or Alaska