Winter tyres

Biglad

Rochey18 wrote: »

Thinking of getting four cheap steel rims and putting on 4 part worn winter tyres. I have 17 inch on now but if I got 15s would I need to redo the tracking again?
Also if I take off the winter tyres do I need to redo the wheel balance?

Not sure on the tracking question but if you remove the winters and replace them with different tyres than you would ahve to get them balanced.

I got my winters fitted to my normal alloys which, including balancing, cost me 35 Euro...

traco

No need to do the tracking, just get them balanced and off you go.

BTW - that little excursion home tonight took me 4 hrs 43 mins, 4 of which were spent on the M50 due to trucks and cars unable to get up inclines resulting in everyone going nowhere.

Avg speed was 13kph or something. Naas to Portmarnock.

Justin10

Thanks for the reply. But if I have the tyres on the alloy (winter) and put back on my oringal alloy (Summer) would I have to redo the balance everytime I switch them?

Biglad

Rochey18 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. But if I have the tyres on the alloy (winter) and put back on my oringal alloy (Summer) would I have to redo the balance everytime I switch them?

Don't think so bud. I would also mark from which corner each wheel was taken and put them back on the same corner, but that's only because of my ocd...

Justin10

Thanks. Il ring around sure and find out.

GTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ncga6UxlHM

I can only assume that the test was done on a cold wet surface?
Interesting none the less. Hadn't seen a test against Summers on anything other then snow and ice.

traco

Rochey18 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. But if I have the tyres on the alloy (winter) and put back on my oringal alloy (Summer) would I have to redo the balance everytime I switch them?

If you have the tyres fitted to another set of rims then just have them balanced the once. Ballancing is just offsetting the weight differnces in thyre that occurs during the naufacturing process - ie one part might be slightly thicker than another and a weight is put on the rim to conteract this.

Tracking / a;ignment is to do with the suspension / steering geometry of the car itself irespective of what wheel are on it. It impacts handling and tyre wear. This gets knocked out of alignment by potholes. speedbumps and crap roads in general. So tracking / alignment is independent of the wheels.

So tyres should be balanced when newly fitted to rims and once done should remain fine unless you loose a weight. Balanced wheels can be swapped back and forth with no requirement for rebalancing unless the trye has been remove for repair and refitted or you lose a weight of the rim.

Hope that makes sense.

Stealthirl

thought id share some more pics of where my winters are driveing














looking into the wheel well,have to keep clearing it out


came home and had to get smokes out of the soarer

heres the roof over the door



and heres the open door :eek:

Esel

Biglad wrote: »

I'd say that's quite a logical outcome as most of the stopping power is at the rear in your case which should help in a way to keep the front in line...

I'm pretty sure that most of the braking is done by the front wheels, regardless of whether the vehicle is FWD or RWD...

Yarra

I can't believe the difference, I had to park up my old Merc 190e last time it snowed. Ordered in 2 Nokian WRG2 tyres from Eire Tyres- Used my spare wheel which is a steel rim (that had a bald tyre on it) and got another rim off summerhill spares for €10- The lads in the garage on Grand Canal St put them on the rims €25- Left from town to get to Sandyford today and Ballinteer, 6" of snow in the estate and no drama- no issues even going up by Taylors Lane hill and the hill at the back of Mount Carmel- they are without doubt the way forward- car also has a full tank of petrol and 3 bails of briqutes over each wheel in the boot- No traction control and still doing it- The WRG2 would be good for using all year here so will probably get 2 more when my existing "summers" wear out-

http://www.tyretest.com/pkw_winterreifen/nokian/wr_g2/index.html

maidhc

Interesting thread.

I just drive my New Holland tractor to work these days though.

YouThinkThat

I have a BMW 1 series and have 2 new tyres on the front (April of this yr). The back tyres need changing..its a RWD...and I cant get anywhere in this snow. Would it be a good idea for me to buy 2 winter tyres for the back now...does it matter if they arent all winter tyres?...they are run flats by the way...

Matt Simis

YouThinkThat wrote: »

I have a BMW 1 series and have 2 new tyres on the front (April of this yr). The back tyres need changing..its a RWD...and I cant get anywhere in this snow. Would it be a good idea for me to buy 2 winter tyres for the back now...does it matter if they arent all winter tyres?...they are run flats by the way...

Official line is no, you should not do this as you will upset the braking. Personally I have tried this on a RWD BMW and it does stop you spinning out and getting stuck on inclines etc. I didnt notice any weird braking issues either, likely because a RWD car isnt driving, braking and steering all at once on the same axle like on a FWD car.

What you will do however is remove oversteer (ass flying out) and introduce understeer (sliding direction you are facing unable to turn), like a FWD car.
Its your call, but you wont truely benefit from Winters with just 2, it just gets you mobile.


PS: Mixing RF and non-RF is not good for the suspension setup on the car either.

Matt Simis

Another video for the archive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmFyboozEs

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/22122010/36/ford-saloon-trumps-4x4s-icy-hill-0.html

If you wait for it, in the midst of the madness, a Ford saloon (which we suspect is wearing winter tyres) casually negotiates its way down the hill, zipping around the stranded trucks with perfect control.
Winter tyres are a hot topic in the UK at the moment, although many drivers are struggling to find a suitable set as demand vastly outstrips supply.

Given the speed he made those course corrections at, Winter tyres are nearly a sure bet.
Note that most US trucks (if not all of them) come standard with All Terrain or All Season tyres. So this isnt an example of Summer tyres being brutal (though thats assumed).

Biglad

One thing you notice in that video is that a lot of the vehicles are "on the brakes" steady, no chance of steering away from the immenent crash...

bbam

Biglad wrote: »

One thing you notice in that video is that a lot of the vehicles are "on the brakes" steady, no chance of steering away from the immenent crash...

Yeah but that's common, when things get sideways lots of people slam on the brakes, white knuckle the steering wheel, and close their eyes..

Watched one poor fella yesterday in a polo, got a slight twitch cmoing into a corner and stuck on the brakes..slide, slide slide... No bother though as the hedge and telephone pole stopped him..:o
I'm 100% sure he would have been fine if he lifted both feet of the pedals and steered gently round the corner...

I really felt for him, imagine loosing your car 3 days before Christmas

YouThinkThat

Ok...thanks for the advice. I might buy a pair of those tyre socks and see how I fare with them instead

mle1324

If your meant to have four winter tires instead of 2 how come you only need two snow socks ? Is it anything to do with traction when going over a certain speed ?

Anan1

mle1324 wrote: »

If your meant to have four winter tires instead of 2 how come you only need two snow socks ? Is it anything to do with traction when going over a certain speed ?

Snow socks are a very basic 'get you up that hill' solution, they're not comparable to winter tyres.

R.O.R

Anan1 wrote: »

Snow socks are a very basic 'get you up that hill' solution, they're not comparable to winter tyres.

Unless you are one of the two morons I passed on the M50 today, doing 60-70 km/h with their snow socks on :rolleyes:. One of which was a taxi with a fare on board.

Also passed a shredded Snow sock in the middle of the carriageway.

Biglad

mle1324 wrote: »

If your meant to have four winter tires instead of 2 how come you only need two snow socks ? Is it anything to do with traction when going over a certain speed ?

Don't know who ever decided you need only two snow socks, guess it's because they are a "get you out of a hole" solution and mot a means for everyday travelling a reasonable speed on various mixed surfaces. Speed should be kept down when using these sock things, read something about 40kph max on snow cover, everything else you should be crawling to not shred them...

mle1324

Thanks Anan.

Just trying to prove a point to someone that you do need 4 winter tires and not 2 but because he heard a Russian mechanic say two were okay (as that what they use back home) he has taken the mechanic's word for it :rolleyes:

delly

My fronts were heading towards about 2mm and only for something came up, i was going to get two new regular tyres before this snowfall kicked in and was been quoted between 80 and 100 per tyre.

So today i went to a part worn tyre centre here in drogheda and got a pair of michilin winters for 75 total including fitting and balancing. Theres about 6 mm of thread left so i think there worth the money. I'm aware of the issues of having winters on the front only so did a little testing just to feel what they can do. I'm surprised at how well they work and would defo recommend to any doubters.

Slogger Jogger

Most of my commute to and from work today was on snow packed and slushy roads. I've regular tyres. Didn't slide once and got me uphill on a snowy road at the end to get home. (Relieved!) Still, strongly considering winter tires for the added reassurance. A work colleague got a set for 400 quid.

Stheno

There was an article in the Irish Times today about winter tyres.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/motors/2010/12/23/time-for-a-tyre-rethink/

Biglad

Stheno wrote: »

There was an article in the Irish Times today about winter tyres.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/motors/2010/12/23/time-for-a-tyre-rethink/

Thank god for that, saves us explaining it all over and over again to the non-believers on here, I'm sure they won't disagree with that article, or will they?

CJhaughey

I think Mr Comyn might actually be on this forum quite a bit, albeit incognito.:)

Stheno

CJhaughey wrote: »

I think Mr Comyn might actually be on this forum quite a bit, albeit incognito.:)

LOL I was reading the article, thinking it sounded like reading the Winter Tyres thread, not in the sense that it was a summary, but so much of it was what has been talked about here

Biglad

CJhaughey wrote: »

I think Mr Comyn might actually be on this forum quite a bit, albeit incognito.:)

Really

Victor Meldrew

Biglad wrote: »

Don't know who ever decided you need only two snow socks, guess it's because they are a "get you out of a hole" solution and mot a means for everyday travelling a reasonable speed on various mixed surfaces. Speed should be kept down when using these sock things, read something about 40kph max on snow cover, everything else you should be crawling to not shred them...

And don't put them on on gravel and check the thread for pebbles. I have a nice hole in mine now.

Still, they work great, but have limits. Pain in proberbial doing 50K on motorway stretch (only 2k.)

As for only using 2, well the back end is a bit loose, but OK at low speed.