Winter tyres

GTE

Biglad wrote: »

I actually prefer my SAAB 93 Vector Sport with the Hankook icebears as the ride is less bumpy compared to the tyres I took of. Sport suspension in combination with Donegal roads is not very comfortable at all and the extra "softness" of the winters is very welcome. As for tyre ware, well, after about 1000 miles, they're hardly rubbed in.

It's nice to know that the next cold spell is coming next week and that I have the right tyres on to deal with the conditions whatever they may be.

Best of luck to the all season people...:D

Im glad the Hankook Winters are working out for you. Ill keep an eye on your opinions closely. Im on the Hankook All Seasons and Im really impressed. There is a local Hankook dealer in Belfast that is doing nice prices so I may go for full Winters some time to see how they work for me
The W300's seem to be classed as a good motorway winter that can take some snow too. Not too sure if it is the W300 or 440's you have.

Absurdum

Just to update on my Vredstein Extreme 4 Wintracs, they got me around in the snow really well, it was difficult to break traction in fresh and compacted snow, cornering was equally impressive. Ice/black ice on the other hand was still dodgy enough but at no point did I lose control or go sideways. No problems going up hills either.

Since the thaw, I haven't noticed any disadvantages to them, no extra road noise, and are fine in the wet and dry. My mpg is down by about 8% since I had them fitter but I would attribute that to being in a lot more slow-moving traffic and having the heater and heated seats on most of the time. I should have a more accurate figure in the next week or so.

Biglad

bbk wrote: »

Im glad the Hankook Winters are working out for you. Ill keep an eye on your opinions closely. Im on the Hankook All Seasons and Im really impressed. There is a local Hankook dealer in Belfast that is doing nice prices so I may go for full Winters some time to see how they work for me
The W300's seem to be classed as a good motorway winter that can take some snow too. Not too sure if it is the W300 or 440's you have.

It's the 300's that are on mine. I've covered quite a few miles on tarmac over the last few days and have noticed no negative side effects of running winters on semi dry tarmac in temperatures of up to 12c. I have not exeeded 100kmh so far although some distance was driven on smooth dual carriage way roads. Like I stated earlier on, the softer compound seems to take the sharpness out of the short bumps on the bad roads which were really noticeable with the previous 225/45/17's I had on in combination with the stiff suspension that comes with the Vector Sport.
I must also state that a lot of my concentration was needed to get round the enormous amount of crater sized potholes...

Cartel Mike

Anyone here say this?



The argument that winter tyres are a 'must' in Irish winters that clearly isn't the case.
For the mild weather were having this week having such a soft compound on your wheels is clearly going to hit your fuel consumption hard,harder than any other tyre especially if your car is on the thirsty side anyway.
For what weeks of snow we get there is nothing all weathers can't handle. Anyone who says otherwise is being a bit of a drama queen.
How many people got stuck this winter in all weathers?
No extra rims needed ,no storage space needed.
Winters are not a must for Irish weather and in the current economic climate shouldn't be regarded as such.
Anyway if you have bought them ,go easy in this mild weather as you don't want to be splashing out again next year, going through the thread, alot of people seem to have 'different' or 'new' winters on year as to the previous. Why?

Biglad

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Anyone here say this?



The argument that winter tyres are a 'must' in Irish winters that clearly isn't the case.
For the mild weather were having this week having such a soft compound on your wheels is clearly going to hit your fuel consumption hard,harder than any other tyre especially if your car is on the thirsty side anyway.
For what weeks of snow we get there is nothing all weathers can't handle. Anyone who says otherwise is being a bit of a drama queen.
How many people got stuck this winter in all weathers?
No extra rims needed ,no storage space needed.
Winters are not a must for Irish weather and in the current economic climate shouldn't be regarded as such.
Anyway if you have bought them ,go easy in this mild weather as you don't want to be splashing out again next year, going through the thread, alot of people seem to have 'different' or 'new' winters on year as to the previous. Why?

Most of it is a pile of nonsense in my eyes. My old man in Holland puts his winters on in October and takes them of around March, he is now on his 4th winter season with the same set. Winters are not that different in Holland, they get the mixed style winter as well. Some of my German friends are on their 3rd or 4th season as well with their winters. As for fuel consumption, I suppose it's a trade off, a bit more fuel for continued mobility, little price to pay. How many drivers got stuck around Dublin recently that could have motored on and got home if they did have winter tyres on? Far less vehicles would need to have been abandoned because they could no longer move etc. Our ailing economy would benefit from us having winter tyres on as we could all get on with our lifes and work as normal, although it would take a bit longer to get there maybe.
When is this nonsense about why we do not need winter tyres going to stop? Have we not all seen vehicles sliding all over the place because of a shear lack of grip? Yes there are bad drivers out there who don't have a clue but you get them in the summer too.
I'm convinced, if you're not than please join the people walking home during the next slippery spell.

It's all about being prepared, unfortunately the "it'll be alright" filosophy is very strongly adopted by many, and in real life, it often doesn't fly...

Cartel Mike

Read my post again biglad . Can you specify the 'nonsense' ive talked?
Why would i be walking?

Biglad

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Read my post again biglad . Can you specify the 'nonsense' ive talked?
Why would i be walking?

My reply was in response to the "Here Say" part clearly mentioned at the top of your post and for that reason not a personal reply towards you...although I might have read it as "hear say" at first...

It is meant as a reply to all those who still believe that us winter tyre users are wasting money and fuel etc...again, nothing against you as I am guessing you are only reposting what others stated before?

peasant

Winter tyres seemingly are the new religion

You get believers, converts, agnostics ...and this being Ireland ...pagans as well who believe mother earth will sort their driving in ice & snow

copacetic

peasant wrote: »

Winter tyres seemingly are the new religion

You get believers, converts, agnostics ...and this being Ireland ...pagans as well who believe mother earth will sort their driving in ice & snow

and apparently people planning death bed conversions, hoping it'll work out for them!

Absurdum

all seasons = protestants

Biglad

peasant wrote: »

Winter tyres seemingly are the new religion

You get believers, converts, agnostics ...and this being Ireland ...pagans as well who believe mother earth will sort their driving in ice & snow

I'm not a very religious person but I believe in my winter tyres

Cartel Mike

Absurdum wrote: »

all seasons = protestants

= an idepentent thinking race of irish people who don't 'buy' into the hype.....literally.

Biglad

Cartel Mike wrote: »

= an idepentent thinking race of irish people who don't 'buy' into the hype.....literally.

nonsense, if this refers to getting yourself a set of winter tyres for the winter.

And I'm happy to be an exeption to the rule...:D

TJJP

1 >What are the winter tyre brigade doing these days. Are they off already?

2 >If not, how is the ride on the wet/dry roads?

3 >Are ye wearing the threads to bits keeping them on?

1. No. That would be silly.

2. Similar, if not slightly better in the wet (in an utterly non scientific sense). They do hold a bit like rails though and one needs to 'snap' out of alignment when one is driving, I find.

3. Eh, no.

4>Ride a bit bumpy?

No more than usual, perhaps better. However, road surfaces have degraded significantly over the last few weeks of poor weather (During which I was driving as almost normal). The inclement weather was most annoying though, as I have exclusive and very expensive cars.

5>More snow could be 3-4 weeks off already.

Good on you; a short career in Met Éireann beckons.

6>If ye havn't splased out on spare rims to go with your tyres it could be costly changing them back and forth, also might damage your tyres in the process.

I have rims and they cost me quite a bit less than a 'good' dictionary. Mind you money is no object to me.

7>Can't beat the all seasons.

In certain conditions, I’m sure you can’t. Jeeves takes care of these things on my behalf, mostly.

8>*rubs hands, rye smile, cheeky grin*

Given subsequent posts I’ll presume your ill attempt at humour was equally ill intentioned.

Cartel Mike

TJJP wrote: »

1 >What are the winter tyre brigade doing these days. Are they off already?

2 >If not, how is the ride on the wet/dry roads?

3 >Are ye wearing the threads to bits keeping them on?

1. No. That would be silly.

2. Similar, if not slightly better in the wet (in an utterly non scientific sense). They do hold a bit like rails though and one needs to 'snap' out of alignment when one is driving, I find.

3. Eh, no.

4>Ride a bit bumpy?

No more than usual, perhaps better. However, road surfaces have degraded significantly over the last few weeks of poor weather (During which I was driving as almost normal). The inclement weather was most annoying though, as I have exclusive and very expensive cars.

5>More snow could be 3-4 weeks off already.

Good on you; a short career in Met Éireann beckons.

6>If ye havn't splased out on spare rims to go with your tyres it could be costly changing them back and forth, also might damage your tyres in the process.

I have rims and they cost me quite a bit less than a 'good' dictionary. Mind you money is no object to me.

7>Can't beat the all seasons.

In certain conditions, I’m sure you can’t. Jeeves takes care of these things on my behalf, mostly.

8>*rubs hands, rye smile, cheeky grin*

Given subsequent posts I’ll presume your ill attempt at humour was equally ill intentioned.

sorry mate can't be arsed going through your individual replies(you obviously can) but if i could id make them a bit funnier than that tbh

Are winter tyres a must in Ireland .. No.

That is my point . A quite unecessary/tounge in cheek point overall i feel if im honest .. as in i'm hardly going to get a nobel prize for stating it am i?

Yet ive stated it and its true.

Maybe you can dissprove it ? I'm thinking (due to your reply) that you have the time on you hands.

Otherwise .....

*makes a winding motion with hands*

Biglad

Cartel Mike wrote: »

sorry mate can't be arsed going through your individual replies(you obviously can) but if i could id make them a bit funnier than that tbh

Are winter tyres a must in Ireland .. No.

That is my point . A quite unecessary/tounge in cheek point overall i feel if im honest .. as in i'm hardly going to get a nobel prize for stating it am i?

Yet ive stated it and its true.

Maybe you can dissprove it ? I'm thinking (due to your reply) that you have the time on you hands.

Otherwise .....

*makes a winding motion with hands*

The only thing that's true is that you have stated it, the rest is, sorry, more nonsense...sure if Bono was ever mentioned for the Nobel prize there still is hope for you, don't give up yet...

Cartel Mike

Biglad wrote: »

The only thing that's true is that you have stated it, the rest is, sorry, more nonsense...sure if Bono was ever mentioned for the Nobel prize there still is hope for you, don't give up yet...

Thanks biggy

GTE

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Anyone here say this?



The argument that winter tyres are a 'must' in Irish winters that clearly isn't the case.
For the mild weather were having this week having such a soft compound on your wheels is clearly going to hit your fuel consumption hard,harder than any other tyre especially if your car is on the thirsty side anyway.
For what weeks of snow we get there is nothing all weathers can't handle. Anyone who says otherwise is being a bit of a drama queen.
How many people got stuck this winter in all weathers?
No extra rims needed ,no storage space needed.
Winters are not a must for Irish weather and in the current economic climate shouldn't be regarded as such.
Anyway if you have bought them ,go easy in this mild weather as you don't want to be splashing out again next year, going through the thread, alot of people seem to have 'different' or 'new' winters on year as to the previous. Why?

For the average driver, of which I believe I am, I would agree with you quite a bit and say an All Season tyre would be the best bet for me and them. I dont do the driving or have the car that demands a very good Summer and the All Seasons I have work rather well in the snow.
Winter tyres are not a must, but a tyre with the Snowflake symbol IMO is.

Having said that there are, IMO, only two All Seasons that are worth considering so if your post is based on all of the All Weather and All Season tyres being better then I dont agree with you. One of those tyres could be as useless in a bad Summer.

The All Season/All Weather are not standards. They are merely just names applied to those kind of tyres. Very general and no specific standards to back them up. Similar to the Winter tyre. That is just a general name given to the tyre and where its been designed to perform. The Snowflake symbol however denotes a specific standard that the tyre meets. You can have horrible Winter tyres and they would not have this standard met.

Perhaps that is where the Summer tyres lag behind as I dont know of a widespread standard for them but its a lot easier to research a good Summer so perhaps the standard is not needed.

There are many people here who like to have a good Summer tyre. They may not come under the average driver generalisation I mentioned above. An All Season tyre would not be great compared to the Goodyear Eagle F1 for example. A driver and car that would demand that tyre would not be in a good situation with a general All Season tyre.

Add to that the simple truth that in regards to road temps we are most definitely in the area making Winter tyres a viable option and with the snow we have been getting a good motorway biased Winter tyre with good snow characteristics would be, debatable I admit, perfect for us. Though the reason I am on H730 All Seasons is because they work rather well in the snow and I dont have the car that demands a separate Summer.

So they are the two situations we can have.
Driver with a car that doesnt demand a high performance Summer tyre.
Driver with a car that demands a high performance Summer tyre.
In both situations they should have a tyre fitted at some stage that has the Snowflake mark.


Your only other point you made aside from Winter tyres not being the only answer is fuel consumption. I do like getting 55mpg but in the Winter where the MPG comes down anyway and when we meet very cold roads, a bit of frost and ice I would prefer knowing I have a car that can take those conditions.
IMO Snowflake marked tyres are the ones for that job. That kicks most of the All Weather/Season tyres out of the running but anyway, fundamentally the extra grip outweighs a couple of MPG.

That is my opinion but I dont think you are the kind of poster who is willing to have a debate on it, especially considering you wouldn't bother reading through a reply of someone who was willing to reply to you.

Id take that into consideration before posting again.

Cartel Mike

bbk wrote: »

For the average driver, of which I believe I am, I would agree with you quite a bit and say an All Season tyre would be the best bet for me and them. I dont do the driving or have the car that demands a very good Summer and the All Seasons I have work rather well in the snow.

Having said that there are, IMO, only two All Seasons that are worth considering so if your post is based on all of the All Weather and All Season tyres being better then I dont agree with you. One of those tyres could be as useless in a bad Summer.

The All Season/All Weather are not standards. They are merely just names applied to those kind of tyres. Very general and no specific standards to back them up. Similar to the Winter tyre. That is just a general name given to the tyre and where its been designed to perform. The Snowflake symbol however denotes a specific standard that the tyre meets. You can have horrible Winter tyres.

Perhaps that is where the Summer tyres lag behind as I dont know of a widespread standard for them but its a lot easier to research a good Summer so perhaps the standard is not needed.

There are many people here who like to have a good Summer tyre. They do not come under the average driver generalisation I mentioned above. An All Season tyre would not be great compared to the Goodyear Eagle F1 for example. A driver and car that would demand that tyre would not be in a good situation with a general All Season tyre.

Add to that the simple truth that in regards to road temps we are most definitely in the area making Winter tyres a viable option and with the snow we have been getting a good motorway biased Winter tyre with good snow characteristics would be, debatable, perfect for us. The reason I am on H730 All Seasons is because they work rather well in the snow and I dont have the car that needs a separate Summer.

That is my opinion but I dont think you are the kind of poster who is willing to have a debate on it, especially considering you wouldn't bother reading through a reply of someone who was willing to reply to you.

Id take that into consideration before posting again.

Thanks mate. Im only having a bit of banter with the lads.
Towed two people out of the ditch last few weeks ,they had summers on.
I told them not to waste their money on buying winters for a week here and there in the snow and said that the all weathers would be the sensible option.
Aferall alot of people wont even have the same car nevermind wheel size next year!

I honestly agree with everything you said.(not just cause you bought the best option)

Biglad

You make me laugh "towed two people out of a ditch", keep it real bud, having a laugh is ok but there is a thin line between just that and taking the piss with silly comments and disrespecting other posters...

Cartel Mike

Thanks again biggy.
As far as your concerened all my posts have been nonsense and now your calling me a liar as well.
Maybe you understand why i havn't replied to your posts because other than that- you havn't actually said anyting mate .
We don't need two sets of tyres to drive in this country im sorry to shatter your world but it is becomming apparent to me now that winter tyres 'is your world' so sorry if you feel hurt.
Read bbk's excellent post if you want a 2nd opinion . His english is more eloquent than mine.

Stealthirl

good artical here
http://jalopnik.com/5720380/snow-tires-to-buy-or-not-to-buy

All seasons are like a pair of walking shoes. You can take a nice easy walk in them, and they'll perform okay. You could run in them, you could hike in them, you could play basket ball or tennis in them, you could golf in them, you could mountain climb in them, but they do not accomplish any of the preceding tasks very well. They are truly a "Jack of all trades, master of none." By definition, all-season tires are a compromise: why compromise your safety and driving pleasure?

Winter tires offer so much available traction and driving enjoyment that I regularly make it a point to go out and drive after a heavy snowfall, or better yet, in the middle of a snowstorm. The proper equipment can render an inhospitable environment as a playground for your exploration and enjoyment.

Slipin' and slide'in or drifting and gliding? The choice is up to you.

Biglad

Cartel Mike wrote: »

Thanks again biggy.
As far as your concerened all my posts have been nonsense and now your calling me a liar as well.
Maybe you understand why i havn't replied to your posts because other than that- you havn't actually said anyting mate .
We don't need two sets of tyres to drive in this country im sorry to shatter your world but it is becomming apparent to me now that winter tyres 'is your world' so sorry if you feel hurt.
Read bbk's excellent post if you want a 2nd opinion . His english is more eloquent than mine.

Tut tut...

Happy New Year buddy...it's you who's not reading the posts, not me. Why would I want a second opinion? It's not me who is on all seasons. I've made my choice and I'm happy. BBK posts sensibly and balanced, you don't imo, I don't know if it's a case of not understanding your humour or not. Don't give if you don't know how to take.

Spook_ie

Stealthirl wrote: »

good artical here
http://jalopnik.com/5720380/snow-tires-to-buy-or-not-to-buy

All seasons are like a pair of walking shoes. You can take a nice easy walk in them, and they'll perform okay. You could run in them, you could hike in them, you could play basket ball or tennis in them, you could golf in them, you could mountain climb in them, but they do not accomplish any of the preceding tasks very well. They are truly a "Jack of all trades, master of none." By definition, all-season tires are a compromise: why compromise your safety and driving pleasure?

Winter tires offer so much available traction and driving enjoyment that I regularly make it a point to go out and drive after a heavy snowfall, or better yet, in the middle of a snowstorm. The proper equipment can render an inhospitable environment as a playground for your exploration and enjoyment.

Slipin' and slide'in or drifting and gliding? The choice is up to you.

But as I'm not into rock climbing, why buy rock climbing boots? I'm not into hiking, so why buy hiking boots? I don't play tennis/golf/ basketball etc. so why would I buy them? Oh and I don't drive in a country where Winters are normaly like Alaska/Canada/Central Europe etc. so why go the whole hog there either? and as to

Slipin' and slide'in or drifting and gliding?

isn't drifting and gliding just another term for losing grip?

GTE

I'm quite with the nice comments about my recent post in this thread but happy. I would like to clear one point up though.

In terms of choice full Winter tyres are not the only option in Ireland.
We have a choice of a lot of Full Winters and two All Seasons that can cope with the conditions we faced this Winter on the current market.*

So, I like the good All Seasons (at the least mine) but I disagree with Cartel Mike when he says that there is no need for full Winters in Ireland.
The reasons for this are:

1) Cars and drivers that demand a high performance or touring tyre in the Summer will need those types of tyres in the Summer. This will probably rule out the All Seasons in the Summer. An All Season with great Summer characteristics could take away from snow performance. My All Seasons are a compromise but one that most average drivers would not realise as they dont need anything special. I say they are a compromise because they have the Snowflake symbol.

2) Drivers who need to drive through the Winter and snow and have no option but to just be in the thick of it can justify a full Winter tyre as they can work better then All Seasons, even mine. Im not ready to say the my All Seasons are rubbish because I believe them to be fantastic compared to the Summers I had but if I had a job that I needed to drive to do then I would keep an open mind about full Winters and the jump in grip you get from the AS to them.

* There are two that I personally know of. I believe one user here has a third but I will reserve judgement as it never came up in my research.

TJJP

And that's pretty much my situation. My car was useless on summers in recent weeks; as has been said a few times here, winter and summer, it was night and day. I was well glad to get my winters on, I put the summers on ice (pardon the pun), and they’ll do there until March.

At the same time, the loss of grip and performance from an all season or winter tyre in summer would render my motor equally useless (in summer) if I kept the winters on. Not useless perhaps, but risky, a risk I wouldn’t take.

If all seasons work for you, fine, that’s great. In reality I don’t have that option so I have a change over which costs about €30 all round when the time comes. I can live with that. It’s a cost of ownership.

If all seasons worked for me, I’d be there, but they don’t. It’s not an either or, it’s about what works in a given situation.

Biglad

I rely on my car for work, getting to the shop, dropping kids to school etc. It's essential for me to be as mobile as possible in all weathers, hence my choice to go for winters. Me making that choice has also resulted in me doing shopping runs, hospital runs etc for other locals who could not get to these places with their vehicles. Winters are on my and my wifes car from now on every winter season, never get caught out, whatever the weather. If good all seasons work for you than great, but like said here before, there are only a limited no of good all seasons.

Rockery Woman

Biglad wrote: »

I rely on my car for work, getting to the shop, dropping kids to school etc. It's essential for me to be as mobile as possible in all weathers, hence my choice to go for winters. Me making that choice has also resulted in me doing shopping runs, hospital runs etc for other locals who could not get to these places with their vehicles. Winters are on my and my wifes car from now on every winter season, never get caught out, whatever the weather. If good all seasons work for you than great, but like said here before, there are only a limited no of good all seasons.

I ordered my winter tyres and hope to have them fitted to spare rims next week. Ive really enjoyed reading your posts on winter tyres over the past month - happy new year Biglad xxx

testarossa40

bbk wrote: »

* There are two that I personally know of. I believe one user here has a third but I will reserve judgement as it never came up in my research.

bbk, I'm really curious about which particular All Seasons tyres you have opinions on - don't be shy (or coy!) .

For my part, I changed to a set of new Vriedestein Quatrac 3 AS tyres (+snowflake) on my 3-series RWD and found them extremely good during the last cold snap cum blizzard (Dublin/M50 commuting) and pretty impressive too on a damp-ish blast up the M1 to Newry & back yesterday - quiet, progressive, & direct on the straight, braking, & lane-changing, and, very grippy while energetically negotiating the roundabouts at the Castlebellingham services. I'm very confident they will be fine in the summer too.

And a very Happy New Year to all the Boardsies on Motors while I'm at it! :pac:

GTE

testarossa40 wrote: »

bbk, I'm really curious about which particular All Seasons tyres you have opinions on - don't be shy (or coy!) .

For my part, I changed to a set of new Vriedestein Quatrac 3 AS tyres (+snowflake) on my 3-series RWD and found them extremely good during the last cold snap cum blizzard (Dublin/M50 commuting) and pretty impressive too on a damp-ish blast up the M1 to Newry & back yesterday - quiet, progressive, & direct on the straight, braking, & lane-changing, and, very grippy while energetically negotiating the roundabouts at the Castlebellingham services. I'm very confident they will be fine in the summer too.

And a very Happy New Year to all the Boardsies on Motors while I'm at it! :pac:

I wont be shy at all.
Before I start I believe you are the owner of that third set of All Seasons I was on about. I knew it was some kind of Quadrac anyway. More on that below.

As you can appreciate a lot of tyre reviews can be biased, like I am sure this post could be accused of. The reason for that is because it is impossible for me to have tested all the tyres on the market. Same goes for people who recommend tyres to us here and on other tyre review sites. There is a pinch of salt, sometimes considerable that you need to take with the internet.**

With that in mind I focused a lot of research on group tests of tyres conducted by the ADAC of Germany and other such groups.

The research I did concluded with both the Hankook H730 Optimo 4S and Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons being the best of the all season bunch as they both scored exemplary marks in the tests.

So, on the basis of that I went for the Hankook H730 which was scored 1st just ahead of the Goodyears. The Quadrac 2, which I can only assume the Quadrac 3 was a direct replacement of, did not score as well at all. That is why I am hazy about saying there are three good All Seasons even though I know something replaced the Quad 2.

I fitted two Hankooks on the rear in the Summer. Found them to be rock solid in heavy rain. The rear never gave out.

I fitted the front ones in the middle of the cold snap. Did direct comparisons on the same road before and after fitment (15 mins apart) and found the tyres to be fantastically different. A completely different ball game.
I had grip where I didnt have it, I could stop, accelerate hardly if needed, corner with confidence.

In the cold, dry and damp conditions we have now I was surprised yet again when I did a rather F1 style launch (as F1 as you can get with a 90 hp diesel) and they hung on much better then my old Summers were doing even in the end of Sept/Early Nov. No wheel spin at the same area that I had it doing the same thing a couple of months back. That was only yesterday and today*.

Given that I now hold the test results from which I bought the tyres with a high regard and I stick to them strictly now.


* I was a bit iffy on whether Summer vs. Winter debate held up on dry and wet colder roads but I am not leaning towards convinced on this one.
** The reason I think this is that the way people come off in posts and reviews can sound biased or silly or even nonsense in some circumstances. I like to think that my posts require less salt then others lol.

Now, to let the New Years Malibu to settle into me. Tis seriously easy goin lads!
Happy New Year to you and to all!!

EDIT:
The single '*' came after the double '*'!!!!
What has the drink done to me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!