Winter tyres

Matt Simis

exaisle wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that any tyre that has a tread pattern can be called a "winter tyre"...so technically, formula 1 rain tyres could be described as a winter tyre?

Eh no.. not at all. All tyres have thread patterns. Winters have an aggressive pattern typically with large grooves and side slits ("sipes" IRC). But most importantly they are made from a softer rubber compound that excels in the cold temps when Summer tyres become very hard and useless. This is generally why even rubbish Winter tyres outgrip the best Summers.

exaisle wrote: »

I notice that Goodyear Ultragrips and Nokian WR G2s both have a Symbol (a showflake in front of a mountain peak). Anybody know the significance of this?

It means the tyre is certified to operate in Snow (and therefore low temps):
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125

"A mountain/snowflake symbol branded on the tire's sidewall identifies tires that met the required performance in snow testing. The mountain/snowflake symbol is expected to be fully implemented on new tires by now, however there still may be a few winter/snow tires in the marketplace that meet the requirements but were produced in molds manufactured before the symbol was developed."

If you dont see this symbol but the tyre is being sold as a M+S Cold weather, "snow", Ice or maybe even called a Winter tyre, I would consider it as an All Season tyre, though it maybe a Winter tyre, I personally wouldnt make that assumption.

Satts

Which is better, Nokian WR G2 or Nokian W+ ?

GTE

Matt Simis wrote: »

Eh no.. not at all. All tyres have thread patterns. Winters have an aggressive pattern typically with large grooves and side slits ("sipes" IRC). But most importantly they are made from a softer rubber compound that excels in the cold temps when Summer tyres become very hard and useless. This is generally why even rubbish Winter tyres outgrip the best Summers.


It means the tyre is certified to operate in Snow (and therefore low temps):
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=125




If you dont see this symbol but the tyre is being sold as a M+S Cold weather, "snow", Ice or maybe even called a Winter tyre, I would consider it as an All Season tyre, though it maybe a Winter tyre, I personally wouldnt make that assumption.

The M&S seems to be less reliable then the snowflake mark. Just from reading some Canadian boards it seems it can be printed on a tyre but its not signifying something solid. The mountain and snowflake mark is a different and more strict story. Though someone not in the know can be fooled as I was looking at some of the All Seasons in a link I posted earlier in the week and one of them had snowflakes printed on it but not the logo. Trying to do a sales pitch with their snow mark or something.

This is why I went for the All Season route since I had a choice of two All Seasons that came with the snowflake mark.

Matt Simis

bbk wrote: »

This is why I went for the All Season route since I had a choice of two All Seasons that came with the snowflake mark.

Thats confusing, as this Canadian site with the history of the Snowflake Symbol makes it clear the whole point was to differentiate Winters from All Seasons (by use of the symbol):
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2007/02/01/the-story-of-the-mountain-and-the-snowflake.htm

In 1995, Vince Cain, the chief coroner of British Columbia, wrote to Transport Canada asking that a method be developed to let non-experts know when they were looking at a true snow tire, that is, a tire suitable for severe conditions and not an “all season” tire.
..
After a lot of discussion, all the tiremakers agreed to adopt that recommended ASTM standard, along with the pictograph of a peaked mountain with a snowflake inside it. The new standard was announced
in February 1999.

Today, if a tire bears the pictograph, even drivers who cannot read well will know it meets specific snow traction performance requirements and has been designed for severe snow, ice and winter conditions.

guil

got 2 part worn dunlop winter tyres from autodepot today, the difference in them is unreal
cant believe it

GTE

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats confusing, as this Canadian site with the history of the Snowflake Symbol makes it clear the whole point was to differentiate Winters from All Seasons (by use of the symbol):
http://www.canadiandriver.com/2007/02/01/the-story-of-the-mountain-and-the-snowflake.htm

It is not confusing to me but it shows that the Hankook and Goodyear All Season tyres are a cut above the rest of the All Season bunch.

As your quote from the link shows the need for this differentiation was highlighted in 1995 and implemented in 1999. There was bound to be some kind of advance and I think that Hankook and Goodyear made a leap in terms of how well a tyre can handle the snow, ice and summer conditions.
In the words of the link the Hankook Optimo 4S and Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons meet specific snow traction performance requirements and has been designed for severe snow, ice and winter conditions.

I do firmly believe that once the threshold of gaining the snowflake mark is met the All Seasons mentioned here are not as far past it as the good Winters that are being recommended on boards.

A-Trak

guil wrote: »

got 2 part worn dunlop winter tyres from autodepot today, the difference in them is unreal
cant believe it

What did they cost guil, and did they fit and balance them?
What depot as well btw.

glaston

I'm thinking about getting winter tyres and came across tthe following on the Continental site:

"There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer"


Source:
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tyres/winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres.html

Matt Simis

bbk wrote: »

It is not confusing to me but it shows that the Hankook and Goodyear All Season tyres are a cut above the rest.

As your quote from the link snows the need for this differentiation was highlighted in 1995 and implemented in 1999. There was bound to be some kind of advance and I think that Hankook and Goodyear made a leap in terms of how well a tyre can handle the snow, ice and summer conditions.

It they prove to be good (enough) in Summer, you may well have found the perfect tyre for Ireland then!

JJJJNR

Eiretyres making a killing at the min, ordered two spare winters on Friday at 100 euros each, they have slapped a hefty 40eu on the price for the same tires. I got lucky I guess.

Do-more

Satts wrote: »

Do you find them good ?

Yes found them excellent, particularly in the worst snowy slushy conditions in the housing estate where the difference over summer tyres was day and night.

Satts wrote: »

Which is better, Nokian WR G2 or Nokian W+ ?

The WR G2 are intended for Nordic conditions and are absolutely excellent. The W+ are intended for central European use and aren't as aggressive in their thread pattern and compound.

Ye pays yer money and ye take your choice! But if I was making the choice again it would still be the WR G2.

I moved to Sweden during the year and my drive to work this morning was on about 3 inches of packed snow all the way. The 2nd hand car I bought here came with 1 season old Continental TS830's I was complaining on another thread that in dry warm conditions (9 degrees) I wasn't happy with them as over 100km/h they were wandering on the road probably due to the soft compound rubber thread blocks moving. But now in snowy conditions they are performing well.

The wife has Goodyear Ultra Grip 7+ on her car and they are performing very well in both warm and cold conditions, when I need to replace the Continentals I will probably go for the Goodyears.

FWIW I was driving a Clio hire car last weekend which had almost new Kumho Izkens on it and the grip was appalling, I would advise anyone to avoid them.

Absurdum

I got 4 Vredstein WINTRAC 4 XTREME in 235/65R18 from camskill for €614 delivered, would have cost over €1,000 from eiretyres.net and taken a few days more for delivery :eek:

That is also cheaper than Summer tyres so I'll be saving money over the lifetime of both sets, with added safety.

I haven't been out much in the last week but from what little mileage I did, they have been great, I would highly recommend them (or any winter tyre for that matter).

SV

Can't find any winter tires on camskill, what on earth is wrong with me =/

SV

MarkoC wrote: »

Weird you asking advices but you dont listen them, why to ask if you made your decidion anyway ....
My previous post had perfect link for tyres which suit you and are FAR better than your choice. Nokians in that price range are unbeatable and well proved good tyres, Google will help you here to find out more,

like i said 185/55/15 are perfect winter tyres for your car and i agree that 195/65/15's are a bit high for your factory lowered car.
Over all i dont give a ****

Chill out would ya!
I hadn't made my decision, I have now though.

Thanks for your help.

kennyb3

If my car takes both, is there any diff between 205/55/16 as compared 225/50/16 in terms of snow/ice performance?

Piri

kennyb3 wrote: »

If my car takes both, is there any diff between 205/55/16 as compared 225/50/16 in terms of snow/ice performance?

205/55/16 slightly better in snow and ice

Piri

SV wrote: »

Can't find any winter tires on camskill, what on earth is wrong with me =/

They are one different section

Absurdum

SV wrote: »

Can't find any winter tires on camskill, what on earth is wrong with me =/

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m11b0s0p0

Stevie Dakota

Camskill seem to have hardly any snow tyres left.

Amtmann

HashSlinging wrote: »

This has been discussed to death here.. do a search on the forum for the answers.

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

I did and I didn't find it

Thanks for nothing

This is where the tagging system comes in handy folks. Tags added

GTE

Well, I got the final two of these fitted to the front.

First impression is that I couldnt get the wheels to spin on the snowy roads.
I was driving from the M1 to Slane and Navan (against the advice of Draffodx, Slane was fine in the end. I was afraid I would get rather lost and I knew I would miss a deadline if I didnt go through Slane. One of them days ).

The N51 was pretty bad to Navan. On my old Cooper Zeon XTCs on the front I was really aware that I was on the limit. As a slight test on a straight bit of road I would be going in second gear then floor it. The front would just slide around.

In the Hankooks I cant get the wheels to spin and the ABS is kicking in much much later than before.

Very impressed so far. I had them on the back since the summer so I couldnt tell if they made a difference in the snow on the rear but the front has shown an amazing difference.

Would winters be even more different(better)? Yes. But so far these All Seasons are working very well.

The driving conditions were thick snow, compacted snow and slush.

EDIT:
The more I drive on them the more I like them. Setting off is painless now.

Biglad

Evening all, very interesting thread. I'm getting 4 winter tyres fitted in the morning on my SAAB 93. I'm getting the impression here that people only chose to get tyres fitted to the driven wheels, forgive me if I am wrong. As I was planning to do the same myself, I did quite a bit of research on the issue and the tyre manufacturers and independent experts strongly recommend that all 4 tyres are changed. Hence my decision to change from just the front wheels to all 4.

Next thing was the size. My SAAB currently has 225/45 on and the nearest my tyre man could get was 205/50, will that work?

MarkoC

Biglad wrote: »

Next thing was the size. My SAAB currently has 225/45 on and the nearest my tyre man could get was 205/50, will that work?

Perfect

Biglad

MarkoC wrote: »

Perfect

Have you got an opinion on the issue of just two wheels or all four?

MarkoC

Biglad wrote: »

Have you got an opinion on the issue of just two wheels or all four?

All four of course !

Posted already many times but worth to link again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE

Biglad

Met up with the tyre man man at 10.30 as agreed, bad news, only two of the four tyres arrived, other 2 in back order, balls...

johnmcdnl

so we have to change the tyres for 2-3 weeks of the year ??? then put them back in the garage until next christmas..

they're compulsary in europe because it's way colder in central europe throughout the winter months..

give this cold snaps another week and sur knowing our weather we'll not see snow again until this time next year...

we've had snow for 2 years in a row now and before that I can hardly remember having proper snow for years...

it'd be a complete waste of time in Ireland unless our climate starts to take a real change for colder, harsher winters.. and until that happens having winter tyres would be a waste for most Irish motorists

peasant

johnmcdnl wrote: »

it'd be a complete waste of time in Ireland unless our climate starts to take a real change for colder, harsher winters.. and until that happens having winter tyres would be a waste for most Irish motorists

Yes, it is tempting not to bother with winter tyres ..but I wouldn't call them a "waste".
If a set of winters can prevent you from having to repair several panels and suspension parts on your car (after sliding into a wall for example), they will have more than paid for themselves

Guy:Incognito

johnmcdnl wrote: »

we've had snow for 2 years in a row now and before that I can hardly remember having proper snow for years...

Its actually been twice this year. The last snow was earlier in the year, not last year.

MagicMarker

Haven't read the whole thread so this may have been answered, but presumably winter tyres are grand for summer use also?